Something odd happening out there [DPS and damage drop inside]

nandospc

Call me paranoid or whatever, but i have a weird feeling about this. Let me explain first.
Before 19/11 traits revamp patch, i reached the point that every ISA run, even in pugs, my main tac toons were able to put out more than 90/100k+ DPS even without so much efforts ( 120k+ and more in DPS channels teams ). I was very happy about this and i was looking forward to use the new traits. What happened? After the patch i set the new traits ( Beam Training and Fleet Coordinator ) and did an ISA: not a particularly good run, but whatever, i didn't care about ( it was a 76k ). After that, i set on my rom toon the same traits + Operative and noticed as well a not particularly good DPS ( 82k ). I wasn't so worried about at that time, but curious to see how much i was able to put out with the new traits. So i started to make some ISA tours accross my main toons ( a vulcan tac fed and a romulan tac fed ) and what happened is the real point of the thread: even with good teams ( DPS-Diamond/75k ) my dps was under my usual level, even playing good (gdf, flanking etc...), and far more important, i wasn't alone in the group ( noticeable players felt the same under those circumstances ). So, to try to understand the situation, i did 6 ISAs with good teams and the best i was able to reach is a weird 99k with gdf and fleet support on my rom tac toon ( we expected way more from that ).
From my .log files, what i see is a drop of 15/20% of damage on Fire at Will and plasma explosion embassy consoles, with a debuff level similar to my average runs ( 120-130% ).
Now, the precise feeling i have about this is like shooting with lower marks weapons ( but i'm using epic mk 14 antiproton ac/dm crtd dmgx2 pen weapons and full iconian set... ). I summon dps wizards of all channels to reply here, thanks.
Someone else noticed the same? Now i can't figure out exactly what it is, but i can make a list of triggers: new traits are broken? did they add some resistances or something else on ISA map? is there some buff/passive broken from 19/11 patch? did they stealth nerf something i don't know?
Maybe it's just a bad combinations of team-making/randomness conditions, but it's weird it's happening for an entire week
Let me know if you noticed the same, i'm collecting datas before to open a ticket about.

ps: yesterday evening i even tried to slot again only the old traits, and the result is an even lower dps
pps: maybe it's only my account to be bugged, but i want to figure out why lol

doyouw

iconian set was buged / OP before patch, kemo too... I've read somewhere they were fixing that within last 2 patchs.
I do no t use Iconian set, kemo nor plasma explosions... and didnt noticed any change in pve/pvp.
I'm using good old fleet one 4pc or 3pc + rom engine.
only thing I've noticed is that new traits did not gave significant changes, +1 or 2k DPS at best if not luck.
most of them are probably buged too and now we can see funy things like ground traits showing up on space bars (telekinesy) with insane stats (scaling again when in space) I was planing to try that in a fun pvp and see if I could push someone at +50km like I used to do with my BOP against Tholian in Azura nebula

Anyway, just be patient and most of all avoid well known buged/op set to boost your DPS, you'll always loose much when they fix it

martakurill

nandospc wrote: »

Call me paranoid or whatever, but i have a weird feeling about this. Let me explain first.
Before 19/11 traits revamp patch, i reached the point that every ISA run, even in pugs, my main tac toons were able to put out more than 90/100k+ DPS even without so much efforts ( 120k+ and more in DPS channels teams ). I was very happy about this and i was looking forward to use the new traits. What happened? After the patch i set the new traits ( Beam Training and Fleet Coordinator ) and did an ISA: not a particularly good run, but whatever, i didn't care about ( it was a 76k ). After that, i set on my rom toon the same traits + Operative and noticed as well a not particularly good DPS ( 82k ). I wasn't so worried about at that time, but curious to see how much i was able to put out with the new traits. So i started to make some ISA tours accross my main toons ( a vulcan tac fed and a romulan tac fed ) and what happened is the real point of the thread: even with good teams ( DPS-Diamond/75k ) my dps was under my usual level, even playing good (gdf, flanking etc...), and far more important, i wasn't alone in the group ( noticeable players felt the same under those circumstances ). So, to try to understand the situation, i did 6 ISAs with good teams and the best i was able to reach is a weird 99k with gdf and fleet support on my rom tac toon ( we expected way more from that ).
From my .log files, what i see is a drop of 15/20% of damage on Fire at Will and plasma explosion embassy consoles, with a debuff level similar to my average runs ( 120-130% ).
Now, the precise feeling i have about this is like shooting with lower marks weapons ( but i'm using epic mk 14 antiproton ac/dm crtd dmgx2 pen weapons and full iconian set... ). I summon dps wizards of all channels to reply here, thanks.
Someone else noticed the same? Now i can't figure out exactly what it is, but i can make a list of triggers: new traits are broken? did they add some resistances or something else on ISA map? is there some buff/passive broken from 19/11 patch? did they stealth nerf something i don't know?
Maybe it's just a bad combinations of team-making/randomness conditions, but it's weird it's happening for an entire week
Let me know if you noticed the same, i'm collecting datas before to open a ticket about.

ps: yesterday evening i even tried to slot again only the old traits, and the result is an even lower dps
pps: maybe it's only my account to be bugged, but i want to figure out why lol

Same thing happening to me. I'm not a top end player by any means, but prior to the last patch I was getting 50k DPS consistently, now I'm down to about 39-42k consistently...and yup, this is with more DPS producing traits slotted than previously. Did slips to Kemocite get slipped to live without a patch note perhaps?

Thinking about it, a change to the Iconian set might be the culprit...I don't use it myself, but doesn't it buff an entire team, not just the one using it?

captainpugwash1

Thanx for posting i dont do high dps but my Mogh can normally do 20-25k, now 15-20k, think i might unslot the + damage personal space traits & see what happens.

angrytarg

Since you all parse you can certainly give a approimation where your dps dropped. Saying "I have xx less dps now!" isn't helpful at all. Look what abilities and weapons scored before and after.​​

nandospc

Yup angrytarg, here we go:
Fed tac toon - before 19/11 i had an average of 45k+ dps only from faw3 on good runs, now i struggle reaching 40k; 2x embassy plasma explosion console were able to do consistently 10k+ dps, now the peak is 7k
On rom tac toon i was able to make 48k+ from faw3 regularly, now max i reached is 37k in that 99k run; 3x embassy plasma explosion consoles were able to do 17k+ dps regularly with peaks of 20k, now 13k.
Looks like my toons do the damage i was able to 9-10 months ago, when i had nothing at epic like now... it can't be

martakurill

angrytarg wrote: »

Since you all parse you can certainly give a approximation where your dps dropped. Saying "I have xx less dps now!" isn't helpful at all. Look what abilities and weapons scored before and after.​​

Will do so when I can get to my logs...off the top of my head, my non-FAW beam damage dipped for sure, which is odd because I have two Epic Beams now that I didn't have a few weeks ago.

nandospc

Yeah, in addition I can say even plain beams dps look weird to me. On fed toon my average was about 17-18k ( no faw i mean ), now it struggles to reach 14k; on rom toon it was almost 21k, now max is 16k.
Dem dps and kemocite dps look unchanged though.
Edit: like martakurill said, last week i had only 6 beams out of 8 at epic, 2 were UR, only now is all epic...

angrytarg

So base weapon damage dropped? That seems odd. Plasma explosions and kemocite I'd understand, but regular weapons? Maybe FAW was corrected? (It's broken)​​

martakurill

angrytarg wrote: »

So base weapon damage dropped? That seems odd. Plasma explosions and kemocite I'd understand, but regular weapons? Maybe FAW was corrected? (It's broken)​​

Broken how? I know the way it calculated the outgoing beam damage was odd, but I wasn't aware there was anything wrong with it.

angrytarg

martakurill wrote: »

Broken how? I know the way it calculated the outgoing beam damage was odd, but I wasn't aware there was anything wrong with it.

Don't ask me to cite it, but @borticuscryptic (I think) stated that FAW isn't really working as intented years (?) ago, but they never really knew how to change it. Maybe that happened now, but it would be odd if it happens without notice, so maybe it's just a bug or some underlying trait has been changed.​​

captainpugwash1

nandospc wrote: »

Yup angrytarg, here we go
Fed tac toon - before 19/11 i had an average of 45k+ dps only from faw3 on good runs, now i struggle reaching 40k; 2x embassy plasma explosion console were able to do consistently 10k+ dps, now the peak is 7k
On rom tac toon i was able to make 48k+ from faw3 regularly, now max i reached is 37k in that 99k run; 3x embassy plasma explosion consoles were able to do 17k+ dps regularly with peaks of 20k, now 13k.
Looks like my toons do the damage i was able to 9-10 months ago, when i had nothing at epic like now... it can't be

I dont use embassy consoles but do use BFAW 3 & my DPS is down.

spaceeagle20

I haven't been doing space stfs recently, except for a counterpoint advanced where the kemo seemed to be usually working as un-intended.
However, during my "exile" from space stfs, I came to notice from the chat windows open that Ryan improved his FPER record and Jay set the new sci record and Kate got into Prime or something like that ... I just remember a very big number.
So my hypothesis is : added lag from new quantum phase torpedo laced with kemocite?

fiberteksyfir

I dont have embassy consoles on my current build and do use FaW but no change here still floating around 51k

nandospc

reyan01 wrote: »

Oh dear god, I shudder at the thought of the outcry if BFAW's effectiveness has been reduced, planned or not.

Lol, no, pay attention, i don't mind if they did a "stealth-nerf" for a sake of balance, but if i expect an improvement it's because is preceded by step-by-step little improvements ( getting pen mods, upgrades to epic, buying better ships etc... ), so i literally HAVE to see something better than before with equal conditions if nothing is being nerfed...

mayito2009

120K DPS? and I though my 2000 DPS was good enough, oh boy.....

---

> walk of SHAME

doylem33

Strange how new traits designed with DPS buffs seem to be reducing peoples DPS. from the logs you guys have been running are the new traits working as intended ?. DPS loss shouldn't be happening. Its not the 1st time nor would it be the last for new content added to not be working and needing player testing rather than in-house testing to point out it is flawed.

e30ernest

It's probably the lag. It has been pretty laggy since last patch. Check the number of attacks you are doing post and pre-patch.

martakurill

nandospc wrote: »

reyan01 wrote: »

Oh dear god, I shudder at the thought of the outcry if BFAW's effectiveness has been reduced, planned or not.

Lol, no, pay attention, i don't mind if they did a "stealth-nerf" for a sake of balance, but if i expect an improvement it's because is preceded by step-by-step little improvements ( getting pen mods, upgrades to epic, buying better ships etc... ), so i literally HAVE to see something better than before with equal conditions if nothing is being nerfed...

I don't have any problem with FAW's effectiveness reduced, if it was intentional...and this is as someone who has been using FAW for some time to help grab aggro. Seems to me though that something, somewhere behind the scenes broke with the last patch. All else being equal, adding a +10% all damage and +5% beam damage trait should lead to an average overall damage output increase. So all else is definitely not equal.

I feel like looking for the source, even with my logs, is like searching for a needle in a haystack. I'd love it if for a starting point a Dev could chime in with whether there were any undocumented changes in the last patch.

samt1996

Science DPS doesn't parse well ryan. We both know particle generator boats are more powerful then a BFAW spamming noob.

thatcursedwolf

reyan01 wrote: »

Oh dear god, I shudder at the thought of the outcry if BFAW's effectiveness has been reduced, planned or not.

Now imagine if they made HY competitive with TS and CRF with CSV. The horror of single target skills doing more damage to single targets than AoE skills do to single targets.

angrytarg

thatcursedwolf wrote: »

Now imagine if they made HY competitive with TS and CRF with CSV. The horror of single target skills doing more damage to single targets than AoE skills do to single targets.

I actually look forward to that day. Makes things interesting again.​​

kontarnus

Well, I don't use a parser, but from a couple of runs of Argala with a ship i'm testing out, FAW worked just fine, ships were destroyed with their usual speed, on Advanced.
Maybe, as someone said in another thread, it's the console bonuses that aren't working properly. Fleet consoles.

jaymclaughlin

I'm not seeing any drop at all. In fact I keep setting new personal bests. And that's on different toons/ships/builds/careers etc

martakurill

jaymclaughlin wrote: »

I'm not seeing any drop at all. In fact I keep setting new personal bests. And that's on different toons/ships/builds/careers etc

A couple of questions:

Are you using any of the new traits?
Do your builds include BFAW / Beam Array builds?
Are you using Fleet Tactical Consoles / Embassy Plasma Explosion consoles?

These seem to be the commonalities in those of us who are observing the drop thus far.

jaymclaughlin

martakurill wrote: »

jaymclaughlin wrote: »

I'm not seeing any drop at all. In fact I keep setting new personal bests. And that's on different toons/ships/builds/careers etc

A couple of questions:

Are you using any of the new traits?
Do your builds include BFAW / Beam Array builds?
Are you using Fleet Tactical Consoles / Embassy Plasma Explosion consoles?

If you can say yes to all three, then maybe we're just having some bad luck?

Yes
Yes
Yes

shadowwraith77

I haven't done any testing myself with today's patch, but I myself haven't noticed any dps loss, in fact dropping 1 - 2 DBB's front for 1 - 2 torps, has actually kept dps the same if not increased it slightly.

And yes, this includes using the new traits as well, along with fleet tac/sci consoles.

17k - 24k dps in my usual, and it hasn't changed any really!!!

potencethe1st

Well this last weekend I managed to do a pug run and break my 78k record with the kremin warship up to 84k after upgrading one trait (particle manipulator, a holdover from using my wells) to the fleet coordinator. In a pug run. Oddly enough I get less dps in channel runs but consistently hit 60k in cure space.

No other gear changes. I don't use embassy consoles.

tempusmagus

I've had a run of personal bests ever since the new traits. 112k in a pug and broke 125k yesterday in ISA and seen a rise in my average HSE dps as well.

nandospc

kontarnus wrote: »

Maybe, as someone said in another thread, it's the console bonuses that aren't working properly. Fleet consoles.

May you please link the thread here?