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Borg STF Discussion

No matter witch one you take Normal or Advanced is it just me or is it now a days a walk in the park ? I think where I was frustrated because off the people and the lack off inexperience now is even become easy for those people... And playtime advanced well is done with an few elites in matter of seconds... Well I know I should say thank you, but for the new chars this can be a pain in the butt because they aren't ready yet for an elite STF but they must because of the lack of people because there all in advanced and not Normal play anymore... Make I any sense ???
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
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Comments

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    I think I’m with you on that one OP. Game is easy at the moment. Considering how few run Borg STF as well as the other PvE I conclude that the majority of STO players are not.
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  • grazyc2#7847 grazyc2 Member Posts: 1,988 Arc User
    Think most off them play Borg Disconected and The Cure rest of the PVE are most empty o they do take the Romulan Rescue and the Iconian PVE mission, rest is always empty
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    Well, power creep is real. Borg STFs used to be very easy not too long ago. Then they buffed it up, made it so hard that the forums were flooded with complaints. And now, due to the introduction of new powerful ships, gear, abilities and traits they have become very easy once again.
  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    Actually, the Advanced missions are all designed to be twice the difficulty of the old Elites.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    szim wrote: »
    Well, power creep is real. Borg STFs used to be very easy not too long ago. Then they buffed it up, made it so hard that the forums were flooded with complaints. And now, due to the introduction of new powerful ships, gear, abilities and traits they have become very easy once again.
    lindaleff wrote: »
    Actually, the Advanced missions are all designed to be twice the difficulty of the old Elites.

    Agreed with both post. Advanced difficulty is probably twice as hard das old elite. Thanks to power creep however the means to compensate have approximately been tripled. If teams go for it they get a more easy experience out of it as they ever could in old elite.

    Cryptic hang the carrot you need to compensate quiet high. The quality of the contend sadly only encourages few to take it. That’s why we have empty queues.

    In short the game itself seems not be worth the trouble for most.

    My advice: Either make the game better or lower the carrot.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    It wouldn't be a thread without reyan moaning about FAW.
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  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    So, elite, leave the timers but double the resist and up the class of the ships engaging us. No more spheres, all cubes coming at us. The Tac reinforcement shall be 5 tac cubes. For ISA.


    Yeah, that'll be brutal.
  • postinggumpostinggum Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    Experience in those STFs varies between walk in the park and a nightmare with low dps players that don't offer heals, don't listen in chat, don't crowd control properly and have no idea what they are doing. I'd suggest the issue is more matching players into teams and teams against content than it is simply a matter of level difficulty. In pugs I've seen guys play ISA and do under 1k and others do 100k, I have no idea how those people are supposed to play the same content.
  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    heh, and those people that can't do dps damage, get an afk ban :D
  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    No matter witch one you take Normal or Advanced is it just me or is it now a days a walk in the park ? I think where I was frustrated because off the people and the lack off inexperience now is even become easy for those people... And playtime advanced well is done with an few elites in matter of seconds... Well I know I should say thank you, but for the new chars this can be a pain in the butt because they aren't ready yet for an elite STF but they must because of the lack of people because there all in advanced and not Normal play anymore... Make I any sense ???


    The problem is that Cryptic has allowed the ceation of a massive divide between the bad player and the good player.

    A bad player trundles at sub 5k dps. He will NEVER do any advanced qeue with success. Then we have the good player whose dps ranges from 18k+ to 100k+.

    How do you, in eanest, even try to balance the content if you have divides like this? Do you scale the mobs for the 100k dps guys? Or the mid-tier?
    Scaling it to the lowly non-effort (as in effort to actually do some research on how to equip and captain their ships properly...) Player sure as hell will not be good.


    You could try to mitigate dps usefullness by introducing silly mechanics and timed triggers, but those things carry their very own brand of suckage fruit. Just think about the aggravating timer in mirror incursion, the braindead gat section of grethor. The idiotic whack a mole of the Breach core.

    Cryptic does not exactly have reliable track record with this, in fact the Mission "Assault on terok nor" is an example of the negative, in that it mitigates DPs by making mirror leeta invulnerable (but then also fails to make sure even the dumbest palyer understands what is required of him. Since leeta cannot be crowd controled or aggro-led, it comes down to random chance whether you can or can not finish this fight fast.


    "Counterpoint" and the Badlands Zone are an example of a good mission, both reward you for DPS but do not require it do fullfill the mission objectives. They also do not introduce aggravating stop mechanics that leave the player at the mercy of random chance - or his dumbass teammate.


    The Reason people play borg queues is because dps can sufficiently make up for horrible teammates.

    All the deserted qeueues are those that require upper level brain activity for decent completion, something the average STO player has long since proven to not have. Or the ar queues with stop mechanics that waste the players time.



    Infected SpacE Advanced and Khitmoer space advanced are in a good place, the average decent pug can complet them without issue, get their dil and marks and materials and walk away with their goal achieved.

    The Cure Space advanced ca nbe nasty if the team in unprepared to deal with the assault on the kang, but still doable with a decent tam.

    So those missinos are actually good the way they are. And as a player who was here since headstart i can tell you right now that i prefer these 5-7 minutes of shooting to the dumb script mess they were before their revamps.


    Another Good mission in STO? Korfez. I like this mission. Yes it sucks if your team sucks but it rewards all players-archtypes, the tanks, the scis and the tacs. The mission objectives are never directly centered on killing stuff, after the first "you need to meet this minimum requirement" stage. A good tank can hold a full side of the map on his own and keep the NPC charges alive, simply by being an excellent tank.
    A Sc ichar can crowndcontrol/magick murder and the tac can succeed by shooting stuff.

    The last part again gives roles to everyone palyer type. The tank can aggro and tank all the spawns, the dps and sci will take care of the mission critical tortpedoes and the Boss ship itself. Anyoen can contribute and dps is a quality of live measure more than anything.




    I think more missions should follow this example, but instead of a straight game over, the failed first stage should send the palyers to an easier chain of scenarios.

    You can gauge the teams performance with the first stage, then dynamically send the team to a different followup stages.

    You can create missinos that do not automatically fail and never waste the players time. Reward good players by giving them more and do not punish bad players or those who are dragged dow nby their pug.

    I think korfez has shown us a nice way to do these things. Add a stag that gauges the teams perforance in a given task ,then proceed to shuttle them along the scenearios that meet the teams performance level.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    all the old stfs should be revamped; all of them are boring and add nothing to the game. the current advanced borg stf are not easy for a lot of players and it is a good thing that the good players help the others. anyway, there should have been real elite borg stfs since a long for the good players
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    Was talking to some folks in my fleet about this over the weekend. Everyone was in agreement that power creep is the culprit. The only real solution is nerfs. I think nerfs are inevitable in order to make things a bit more difficult.
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  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    Was talking to some folks in my fleet about this over the weekend. Everyone was in agreement that power creep is the culprit. The only real solution is nerfs. I think nerfs are inevitable in order to make things a bit more difficult.



    No. You are not adressing the problem in a dynamic way. A static nerf-fest will do ne thing: TRIBBLE people of something mgihty. And you wil lstill have the low end palyers being a far cry away from even the mid tier.

    Stop being a baby.
  • mayito2009mayito2009 Member Posts: 643 Arc User
    This topic is full of awesome ELITISM.
    Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).

    Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I think a kemosabi fix would reset this problem. They seem very reluctant to do this though - probably because it is still bringing in a good fortune for the company.
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  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    mayito2009 wrote: »
    This topic is full of awesome ELITISM.

    No. Its full of calling for a neerf that serves no purpose.

    Making missions that scale to the teams performance is a solution.
    Pissing off every player that worked on his build is not.

    Period.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    reynoldsxd wrote: »
    kirk2390 wrote: »
    No matter witch one you take Normal or Advanced is it just me or is it now a days a walk in the park ? I think where I was frustrated because off the people and the lack off inexperience now is even become easy for those people... And playtime advanced well is done with an few elites in matter of seconds... Well I know I should say thank you, but for the new chars this can be a pain in the butt because they aren't ready yet for an elite STF but they must because of the lack of people because there all in advanced and not Normal play anymore... Make I any sense ???


    A bad player trundles at sub 5k dps. He will NEVER do any advanced qeue with success. Then we have the good player whose dps ranges from 18k+ to 100k+.

    DPS output doesn't equal skill! Jeez!! Bigger bang is a caveman mentality. Just because I run a Sci ship on a Sci captain and can't match a Tac BFAW on a Cruiser, doesn't mean I lack skill. DPS is either 1. a level of experience matching the character and ship or 2. copy pasted from the wiki. Anyone who's not experienced and only just topped 50 on they're very first character can look at the wiki. The problem is, they then lack understand of their 'copied' abilities.

    The skill lies in being at the right place at the right time using the right skills! My build is around crowd control and AoE, combinded with self-heals, which makes me a perfect gate guard whilst the rest can Uber-DPS the transformers.

    Using the old 10% rule on Adv still a viable tactic too, it's just people forgot or assume that DPS solves all. What happens if the Dev's finally get round to giving the Borg the ability to adapt in space or give them the Feedback ability? All that DPS then becomes pea-shooters or self-annihilation! What if the Dev's make the Spheres faster, making vaping impossible if you've no gate-guard?

    Also, spamming space bar doesn't equal skill either. I've my abilities tied to different keybinds on purpose, so I can activate them when they are needed and in the right situation. Yes, I've nearly 40 different power to monitor, but that is where the skill lies, as does knowing when to fire everything, beams or just torps.

    However, as with the suggestions above to improve the fight in Borg STF's, how about Cryptic rebalance the runaway DPS machine they inadvertently created.

    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    solution : add rezists to mobs . And in the same time make them vurnerable to shield/power drain ... maybe add defence (to make ACC usefull) in other words make them like players ... a better AI an skill usage would help.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    It wouldn't be a thread without reyan moaning about FAW.

    Wouldn't be a thread without someone not wanting to lose their easymode dps that they pretend is skill.
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    reynoldsxd wrote: »
    mayito2009 wrote: »
    This topic is full of awesome ELITISM.

    No. Its full of calling for a neerf that serves no purpose.

    Making missions that scale to the teams performance is a solution.
    Pissing off every player that worked on his build is not.

    Period.

    How does the game know what the team's performance capabilties are in order to scale them on the fly? What's the criteria? You're not the only player who's worked on their build. Running the game in God mode all the time isn't very satisfying. That's what this thread is about...people noticing that things are way too easy. Don't worry...even when they nerf, you'll still be at the top of the DPS charts. The chart numbers will just be universally lowered. Your build will still be sound, you just won't mow through Borg cubes at the rate you currently do. I think a nerf is inevitable and won't be surprised should the developers take this route. The only other solution is to ramp up the enemy damage and life, which everyone has already experienced in Delta Rising. That went over like a lead balloon.

    One other thing...my ships are T5-U or T6 with all Mk XIV Epic equipment. I'm one of the players who mow through Borg cubes like they were made of paper mache. Should they put in a nerf, I'll deal with it just fine as will all the DPS folks.
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  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    Was talking to some folks in my fleet about this over the weekend. Everyone was in agreement that power creep is the culprit. The only real solution is nerfs. I think nerfs are inevitable in order to make things a bit more difficult.

    They seem to be going in the oposite direction though. They separated ground and space traits, making people like me who were to lazy to swap traits every time you change from space to ground even more powerful. And since the new Research Lab can unlock one additional slot for starship traits, space reputation, ground reputation and active reputation, enemies will be even less of a threat in the future.
  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    I should point out I've soloed a cube in my delta flyer...
  • rezkingrezking Member Posts: 1,109 Arc User
    reynoldsxd wrote: »
    The problem is that Cryptic has allowed the creation of a massive divide between the bad player and the good player.

    A bad player trundles at sub 5k dps. He will NEVER do any advanced qeue with success. Then we have the good player whose dps ranges from 18k+ to 100k+.

    By "good" you mean the P2W approach :p
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    I don't even bother with the Borg STFs anymore, too much BFAW spam and missions that last a couple of minutes whilst some 100K DPS monster smashes everything in seconds.
    There's literally no thinking going on in most runs these days besides everyone charging forwards all guns blazing trying to do the most damage.
    At least with some of the timed missions like GtG and MI other build types can have a go at being useful as well.

    The power creep is the problem though, missions aren't really any harder than they used to be. When you have players doing 100K+ DPS and newbies doing only 5-10K DPS and everyone playing in the same league there's going to be some issues.
    Most missions require 10K and that is fairly easy to get with some joined up thinking about your build and learning to fly it right.
    But that players can push the boundaries so far ahead from that and yet still play the same runs with those new players is just asking for trouble.
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  • mayito2009mayito2009 Member Posts: 643 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    And again by asking for nerfs who you really think would be affected? The guy who does 100K DPS, will do 87K DPS and the poor player/casual will go from 5K DPS to 500 DPS TRIBBLE him/her out of the right to enjoy a game because a bunch of elitists are mad that they can show their awesomeness, how about you take your mighty weapons off the ship and attack the Borg with a bunch of Mk II torpedoes?
    Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).

    Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I agree that the power creep needs to be curbed to help with the outright laughable amount of dps a single ship can output, and making it that something which is meant to be played as a group is now solo-able by those players. Though also it would help to allow the team to better balance an create interesting, challenging content that is so for all players. Most games seek to get a good 10-20% different between the output of players top to bottom at top ranks.

    As weird as it sounds i would not mind seeing a gear/stat cap placed on the ques, now in this idea it would be that each stf difficulty has a upper threshold that your ship's stats are set to if it's stats outstrip these threshold levels. If this was done than you would have that a fully decked out ship would still be very powerful as it would be at the top of the stat point levels allowed in that stf, but would not be so much able to solo the content or finish it extremely quick unless you have all the ship in the stf at the cap. This would also push players to try other difficulties of the stfs.

    Myself i always liked the idea that was brought up in past threads for a revamp to the borg in space content, that instead of buffing their damage they gain a adaptation type ability/feature. In this idea their shields would gain a shield hardness/resistance buff that would be applied to the energy type being used against their shields, maybe make it that it is a chance based effect that or is applied to the energy type used the most against the borg ship. While this could also be done to the weapons of the borg making it that the longer they fire on your shields they either gain a stacking pen buff against your ship specifically, or just that it would gain a stacking shield damage buff against your ship specifically. One big reason i like this idea is that it actually feels very borg-like, and would make them more interesting to fight in the content. Now of course this idea would need to be fully fleshed out, and developed before implemented into the game yet i think it would be very interesting an fun change.
  • mayito2009mayito2009 Member Posts: 643 Arc User
    Keep the plain normal level for casual players as it is and revamp the elite level, give the Borg Cube 5 million hit points and 1 million damage output and let the elite have some fun.
    Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).

    Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    rezking wrote: »
    reynoldsxd wrote: »
    The problem is that Cryptic has allowed the creation of a massive divide between the bad player and the good player.

    A bad player trundles at sub 5k dps. He will NEVER do any advanced qeue with success. Then we have the good player whose dps ranges from 18k+ to 100k+.

    By "good" you mean the P2W approach :p

    If pay 2 win in your world means getting a fleet, fleet gear and upgrading your weapons to mk14 (not epic. just mk14...) then yes its pay 2 win, but i would just call you a mook.



    Even sci ships are capable of a solid 15-20k dps without breaking the players back.

  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    mayito2009 wrote: »
    Keep the plain normal level for casual players as it is and revamp the elite level, give the Borg Cube 5 million hit points and 1 million damage output and let the elite have some fun.

    This is a possibility. It would make it harder to slog through and if you're caught napping, you might lose.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • mayito2009mayito2009 Member Posts: 643 Arc User
    You know the tactical Borg cube used to be that tough tank that in the old times everyone avoided, maybe the devs need to revamp those tactic cubes.
    Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).

    Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
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