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Question to the devs about set building and the Quantum Phase Application and Breen sets

lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
So here is my issue. Why do you build sets that purposely cripple the set bonuses? I would have thought you guys couldn't make the same mistake after the Breen set, but you managed to pull it off once more with the Quantum Phase Applications set. This is twice that you build sets that you can tell with 100% certainty that are drain focused, and somehow the deflector skimps on flow caps. Was the set's engineer lazy and just did just enough to pass inspection? This is the equivalent of building a gaming computer with a mediocre CPU and gaming card. It just baffles me, why?

Only way it makes any sense is if the epic mod somehow boosts flow caps.

By the way, before you mention the impulse engines thing. You guys know that is quite gimmicky and practically useless in combat with large mobs.

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Comments

  • tancrediivtancrediiv Member Posts: 728 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    The flow cap buff is on the deflector +17.5 with a boost of +26.2 to particle generators and EPS from the engines as well. You will get the flow caps but will have to use two pieces of the set. I don't see what the beef is.

    Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER

    Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2015
    tancrediiv wrote: »
    The flow cap buff is on the engines with a boost of +26.2 to particle generators and EPS as well. You will get the flow caps but will have to use two pieces of the set. I don't see what the beef is.

    You need to use full impulse to get that bonus. Tell me, how often can you use full impulse in the middle of combat? Also, full impulse drains Aux power which kind of cripples things.
  • lamyrslamyrs Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    tancrediiv wrote: »
    The flow cap buff is on the engines with a boost of +26.2 to particle generators and EPS as well. You will get the flow caps but will have to use two pieces of the set. I don't see what the beef is.

    You need to use full impulse to get that bonus. Tell me, how often can you use full impulse in the middle of combat? Also, full impulse drains Aux power which kind of cripples things.

    With a beam boat? Or pilot ship?
    I am from Belgium and english isn't my main language, sorry if I make mistakes.
  • karr007karr007 Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    You need to use full impulse to get that bonus. Tell me, how often can you use full impulse in the middle of combat? Also, full impulse drains Aux power which kind of cripples things.

    I think that the critical part is not the bonus during full impulse but the 15 sec after full impulse. The way i see it, this bonus is just initial buff when entering red alert after full impulse.

  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    I give up, players in general don't seem to understand science builds.
  • zero2362zero2362 Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Ok let me break down why the impulse engine buff has limited utility.

    Full impulse drains power from every system to pump up impulse speed. after leaving full impulse it takes time for your sysems to power up again This is especially bad for your weapon systems if you throttle down within 10k of an enemy because firing your weapons drains more powe from them making it take even longer for them to power up and severly hampering your damage output.

    To prevent this when ever the situation will allow it any halway decent captain will throttle down just outside of weapons range to give there systems time to power up meaning you wont be getting much use out of that flow cap buff
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  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2015
    zero2362 wrote: »
    Ok let me break down why the impulse engin buff has limited utility. Full impulse drains power from every system to pump up impulse speed. after leaving full impulse it takes time for your sysems to power up again especialy your weapon systems if you throttle down within 10k of an enemy severly hampering your damage output. To prevent this wheneve the situation will allow it any halway decent captain will throttle down just outside of weapons range to give there systems time to power up meaning you wont be getting much use out of that flow cap buff

    ^
    He gets it. The other 3 people that commented on this thread were 100% clueless. I'd rather take my chances with the inspirational leader trait than hope to get some usefulness out of that engine boost.

    If it had been "bonus active while at full throttle" then awesome, I can work with that, but a bonus activated by full impulse is rather underwhelming.
  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    Someone seems to be having a bad day. Call the devs lazy and stupid. I'm sure that will really motivate them to listen to what you have to say. Personally, when someone treats me like that I stick them in the TRIBBLE category and dismiss anything they might have to say to me after that.

    However, the full impulse thing is pretty silly although, with the 15 secs EPS boost I suppose aux etc will come back quicker. And while the flow caps increase isn't large, it seems to me that most bonuses like that on deflectors/shields etc are often mediocre at best. They seem to have given higher stats to the shield system to make it tankier and so the flowcaps increase is just modest. Given the previous set, it sort of feels like this is geared towards doing an alpha strike type thing with torps. But like you said, full impulse in combat isn't something that happens very often so it's all a waste really. I've never understood that on any equipment at all.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    buff after full impulse is a joke... wont ever be effective. your coming out of 5 power if you have 0 skill in driver coils. so your aux power is 5 and rising but hey your 3 X skills get a boost by 26 points!
  • karr007karr007 Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    ^
    He gets it. The other 3 people that commented on this thread were 100% clueless. I'd rather take my chances with the inspirational leader trait than hope to get some usefulness out of that engine boost.

    If it had been "bonus active while at full throttle" then awesome, I can work with that, but a bonus activated by full impulse is rather underwhelming.

    The way i see it, you are clueless. The engine bonus is to assist recovering combat capability after full impulse, not permanently improving it. The part of the bonus being active during full impulse is only there because it makes the whole concept easier to be coded within the game.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2015
    karr007 wrote: »

    The way i see it, you are clueless. The engine bonus is to assist recovering combat capability after full impulse, not permanently improving it. The part of the bonus being active during full impulse is only there because it makes the whole concept easier to be coded within the game.

    1) They have coded a trait to work while at full throttle before so it's not that complicated.

    2) Frankly, switching the power insulators and flow capacitor numbers would fix the set. Then the deflector would be equivalent to the Dominion one which is a decent drain deflector. Resistances in deflectors that are not geared towards weapons (Not that it's that common) are unnecessary for PvE. Name me one NPC that can actually cause a lot of drain to a ship.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,865 Arc User
    The electro-plasma boost for 15 seconds is nice though, since I usually skimp on skill points for EPS to put them into other skills. That's an extra ~1.3 transfer per second according to the STO wiki.
  • karr007karr007 Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »

    1) They have coded a trait to work while at full throttle before so it's not that complicated.

    So that is what it was all about? We all know about Pedal to the metal. You simply refuse to accept the idea behind the impulse engine.

  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    karr007 wrote: »
    lucho80 wrote: »

    1) They have coded a trait to work while at full throttle before so it's not that complicated.

    So that is what it was all about? We all know about Pedal to the metal. You simply refuse to accept the idea behind the impulse engine.

    Because it's silly? As has been pointed out, it's really not often you use full impulse in combat. Initial strike and then maybe if there's a break in combat you might get a chance again. So it really becomes something that does't benefit 95% of the combat you're doing making it pretty much useless. Which then goes back to his main complaint, the low flowcaps on the deflector.

  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    tempus64 wrote: »

    Because it's silly? As has been pointed out, it's really not often you use full impulse in combat. Initial strike and then maybe if there's a break in combat you might get a chance again. So it really becomes something that does't benefit 95% of the combat you're doing making it pretty much useless. Which then goes back to his main complaint, the low flowcaps on the deflector.

    Like I said before, they design drain 3 piece bonuses to then cripple said bonuses.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    I thought the engine looked nice but then I saw what was being pointed out by lucho and realised its pretty useless except in some very specialised builds.

    You think that you could fly in full tilt and get that boost to your skills, excellent right? But the boost means nothing when your aux power has bottomed out and takes some time to recover, it's not like you're going to get that boost on an aux power of 130 for more than a few seconds if you're lucky.
    You'd really have to have your eps skill set high to allow you to build up enough energy to take full advantage.
    I might work on sciency type first strikes but it'd be a tricky one to pull off as you'd have to wait for power levels to reset which wastes any element of supprise or delays your use of other abilities leavening you vulnerable.
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  • zero2362zero2362 Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    karr007 wrote: »

    So that is what it was all about? We all know about Pedal to the metal. You simply refuse to accept the idea behind the impulse engine.
    If this worked like pedal to the metal there wouldnt be an issue. pedal to the metal requires you to be at max combat speed. This requires you to use full impulse. Something you CAN NOT use in combat and drains all your subsystems meaning after dropping it you have to wait a good while for your power levels to recover before you can make use of the flowcap buff by which time there will only be a few seconds of the buff left anyway
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  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    tempus64 wrote: »

    Because it's silly? As has been pointed out, it's really not often you use full impulse in combat. Initial strike and then maybe if there's a break in combat you might get a chance again. So it really becomes something that does't benefit 95% of the combat you're doing making it pretty much useless. Which then goes back to his main complaint, the low flowcaps on the deflector.

    Like I said before, they design drain 3 piece bonuses to then cripple said bonuses.

    Dyson deflector is much better in terms of it's PartGen benefit.

    +17.5 Starship Shield Emitters
    +26.2 Starship Structural Integrity
    +17.5 Starship Power Insulators
    +26.2 Starship Particle Generator

    Just seems like they intend this deflector to be more defensive oriented with all the shield buffs and skimped on the Flow Caps to achieve that. Granted sci ships can use the help, I'd prefer to see them drop the emitters and insulators a bit to boost the flowcaps.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,865 Arc User
    One thing to consider is this is an episode reward that takes 30 minutes per piece to earn, as opposed to a rep gear item that takes 500-1,000 marks, 15-32,000 dil, and in most cases some elite marks.
  • bioixibioixi Member Posts: 764 Arc User
    Then learn to play, use short full impulse bursts instead of sustaining full impulse, that minimizes subsystem power drain and still lets you achieve a decent speed.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2015
    I retire my complaint. Just learned the deflector gets [FLOW] at UR. They finally did learn. Now if they somehow could fix and give the same bonus to the Breen deflector.

    The engine thing is still a badly designed gimmick and not worth it anyway.
  • zero2362zero2362 Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    One thing to consider is this is an episode reward that takes 30 minutes per piece to earn, as opposed to a rep gear item that takes 500-1,000 marks, 15-32,000 dil, and in most cases some elite marks.

    Correct me if im wrong but the last free episode set we got turned out to be really good. A decent consol for phasers, some rather good cannons/ beam array and perhaps one of the best damn torps in game. That set was a massive boost to phaser users as well as drain builds

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  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited November 2015
    zero2362 wrote: »
    Correct me if im wrong but the last free episode set we got turned out to be really good. A decent consol for phasers, some rather good cannons/ beam array and perhaps one of the best damn torps in game. That set was a massive boost to phaser users as well as drain builds

    The Sunrise set is the best thing they've ever designed as an episode reward apart from the Solanae deflector (Only +50 offensive science skill deflector in the game). If they could only learn from that and design a couple of more sets like that. You know what would also be awesome? A set that very significantly boosts countermeasure systems and a torp with an AoE confuse. I've said it before and I say it again, the +dmg/+res/+heal boosts are completely unnecessary at this point. Boost neglected skills and boff abilities.
  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    Ya the full impulse buff needs to be changed or have a passive bonus where you can enter full impulse in combat. But that bonus needs to be reworked otherwise it's only good for a moment.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    The electro-plasma boost for 15 seconds is nice though, since I usually skimp on skill points for EPS to put them into other skills. That's an extra ~1.3 transfer per second according to the STO wiki.
    Which also increases the speed at which your power levels recover when exiting full impulse.
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    My character Tsin'xing
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  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    edited November 2015
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    Post edited by samt1996 on
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    One thing to consider is this is an episode reward that takes 30 minutes per piece to earn, as opposed to a rep gear item that takes 500-1,000 marks, 15-32,000 dil, and in most cases some elite marks.
    The funny thing is it takes teh same time to earn ther rep gear and this gear. 30mins worth of ISA playtime is a lot of runs.
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    My comment seems to have been lost somehow...

    As I was saying, I completely agree Lucho they don't seems to like buildings sets with a singular theme in mind and it's a tad irritating because that's how players build their ships.

    The engine boost should be improved significantly to help recover from full impulse or changed to a passive that scales with speed/time in combat like some other abilities and traits.
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    So what is its flowcaps at MK XIV UR then?
  • nostalgiamannostalgiaman Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    Boy, its almost like the devs expected you to be smart about using the engine bonus and just use a 1 second burst of full impulse to enter combat. Thus getting the bonus without significantly draining your power beforehand.
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