SRO vs Efficient - SRO wins BIG if you have max warp core efficiency

uryenserellont

I have max warp core efficiency on my Romulan. I have an SRO engineer boff I can use (the DR pack intel boff) but never wanted to remove my borg engineer with Efficiency because of the power loss. I figured Efficiency was highly valuable especially to a Romulan, and she was a preorder bonus so she must be highly useful.

So I unslotted the borg in system space with full power to weapons to see what effect the loss of Efficiency would have on my power levels.

It was a whopping 1 point loss in Engines and Auxiliary power, from 44/46 to 43/45. That's it. All this time I've been keeping the borg slotted on all ships for all my characters because of power loss.

SRO is absolutely, clearly superior to Efficiency, to a point I don't think Efficiency is worth worrying about at all unless you have 0 in warp core efficiency and even then it doesn't look all that great.

That leads me to a question too, a tidbit of info I've forgotten: Does the +7.5 to warp core efficiency mean +7.5 to the bonus level? If you only have 1 in warp core efficiency, for a +18 bonus, does that become +25.5?

Considering how ridiculously small the benefit of Efficiency is to a character with 9 points in warp core efficiency I'd think that was how it worked. Even with 0 points in warp core efficiency +7.5 is no big deal, certainly not enough to sacrifice other useful traits.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Skill:_Starship_Warp_Core_Efficiency

In other words, warp core efficiency = great skill to invest points in; Efficiency trait = not worth sacrificing other traits for, especially one as OP as SRO.

I wish I realized this long ago. All this time I've been operating under the assumption that that borg boff was helping my power levels.

(Why did I think to test this after all this time you ask? I never checked the traits on my Romulan DR boffs until today. The Fed boffs are kind of useless for space so I just didn't bother with my Romulan. Why would they be great when the Fed boffs aren't? Big mistake.)

uryenserellont

I should add this character also has max warp core potential. That's also important.

lucho80

Well, it all depends on how you have the power levels set up. Things also got murky when they introduced the [X->Y] warp core mods. Only way Romulans get in deep trouble is if they get power drain, then that power level gap really shines.

uryenserellont

But Efficiency instead of SRO even when considering power drain? If it was Efficiency vs Leadership I could see taking it but for a Romulan it seems no trait is worth giving up SRO. It's just too small a benefit.

uryenserellont

Damn I just saw I posted this in the wrong forum I wanted it in the Builds, Powers and Game Mechanics forum.

Can a mod move it?

warmaker001b

Efficient trait was nerfed years and years ago. Originally, Efficient was a flat out bonus power to each subsystem, regardless of the setting. Even the original "Efficient Impulse Engine" acted the same way. A long time ago, KDF Letheans / Fed Saurians with Efficient and those Engines were highly desirable and those BOFFs sold for good money.

I think it was around 2011 or 2012 when Cryptic nerfed the TRIBBLE out of anything with Efficient. They became what they are now: Minor bonus to a very low subsystem power level and if you got more you got less of a power bonus until to a point where you got zero bonus. This is very easy to happen these days with the abundant power levels of today. Engineers even more so. When the changes occured, Efficient engines and Letheans / Saurians became completely worthless overnight.

mustrumridcully0

Actually I am pretty sure that Efficient as BOFF Trait only ever improved the Efficiency skills. But the Efficient Engines definitely used to give a straight energy level buff. (And thus were used even at endgame back then, despite being only Mark IV.)

lindaleff

Simply said, Letheans are no longer worth their own existence, and much less worth a spot in your crew.

uryenserellont

I have efficient impulse engines that give a straight power level buff. They were changed? I guess I have a legacy version.

My borg engineer has been relieved of duty. She'll accompany me on away missions but I have no use for her on my bridge.

markhawkman

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Actually I am pretty sure that Efficient as BOFF Trait only ever improved the Efficiency skills. But the Efficient Engines definitely used to give a straight energy level buff. (And thus were used even at endgame back then, despite being only Mark IV.)

Once upon a time, Efficient Boffs gave a flat +1 to all power levels. And the captain version was +5.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

uryenserellont

ruinthefun wrote: »

The Efficient trait is so nerfed to death that trying to pit "SRO vs. Efficient" is equivalent to pitting Chuck Norris vs. Star Wars Kid.

I know and I never bothered to check it. I've had the borg boff slotted in all my ships since 2012, never knowing it was useless.

dalnar83

And what about superior infiltrator? The way I see it, the efficient is kinda of lowest priority to me.

Superior Romulan Operative

+2% Crtical Chance
+5% Critical Severity
+15% Power Rechange Speed for Cloaking

Superior Infiltator

+3,8% Defense
+10 duration of decloak debuff
+200 stealth

I like superior operatives, but because I like to utilitize the battlecloak to the best I can, I like superior infiltrators for the +10s decloak bonus duration. This means I can have a full CRF volley with uncloak bonus.

I was actually thinking about adding second one, but I'm not sure if the duration stacks.

uryenserellont

I have one superior infiltrator and it's from the DR pack. I've never even seen a regular infiltrator. A couple regular subterfuge, one superior subterfuge (from DR pack again) but no superior infiltrator.

I'm not sure I'd give up SRO for it. I don't have to with the SI boff I have.

But yeah Efficient is the lowest priority for me now.

seaofsorrows

Honestly, the only Boff Traits even worth anything are SRO, Subterfuge, and Pirate. Leadership and Efficiency do pretty much nothing.

Of the 3 'good traits' Superior Romulan Operative is by far and away the best. There is no trait that I would ever slot over SRO, it's just too good.

farshore

seaofsorrows wrote: »

Honestly, the only Boff Traits even worth anything are SRO, Subterfuge, and Pirate. Leadership and Efficiency do pretty much nothing.

How about that one off of the Xindi Reptile Tact Officier? Reduces tact cooldowns by 5%? Or how about the new Krenim BoFF? That one seems to have something a little special to it.

seaofsorrows

farshore wrote: »

seaofsorrows wrote: »

Honestly, the only Boff Traits even worth anything are SRO, Subterfuge, and Pirate. Leadership and Efficiency do pretty much nothing.

How about that one off of the Xindi Reptile Tact Officier? Reduces tact cooldowns by 5%? Or how about the new Krenim BoFF? That one seems to have something a little special to it.

Yeah, sorry.. I should have specified that I meant regular BoFFS. BoFFS that you get through game play.

I don't do lockboxes, so I don't have any of those.

uryenserellont

I don't do boxes either but I know I wouldn't give up SRO for a 5% cooldown reduction.

royalsovereign

dalnar83 wrote: »

And what about superior infiltrator? ... I was actually thinking about adding second one, but I'm not sure if the duration stacks.

It does not stack. If you had a 'regular' or 'basic' Infiltrator, they would stack, or at least did at one time.

shadowwraith77

uryenserellont wrote: »

I have one superior infiltrator and it's from the DR pack. I've never even seen a regular infiltrator. A couple regular subterfuge, one superior subterfuge (from DR pack again) but no superior infiltrator.

I'm not sure I'd give up SRO for it. I don't have to with the SI boff I have.

But yeah Efficient is the lowest priority for me now.

Infiltrator, is a Reman only trait, and is possible to obtain regular and superior.

Reman captains have the regular infiltrator trait, and I believe you can obtain regular infiltrator, on Reman boffs as well. [Cannot remember for certain, but I could swear I have seen it possible, in regards to boffs]

royalsovereign wrote: »

dalnar83 wrote: »

And what about superior infiltrator? ... I was actually thinking about adding second one, but I'm not sure if the duration stacks.

It does not stack. If you had a 'regular' or 'basic' Infiltrator, they would stack, or at least did at one time.

Yes, Superior and regular do stack, granting a combined bonus somewhere in the neighborhood of 17-25secs.

vorwoda

What about D'Vex's Space Warfare Specialist trait?

+5 Starship Maneuvers
+5 Starship Targeting Systems
+5 Starship Energy Weapon Specialization
+5 Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization

baudl

way too little boff space traits in the game anyway...and those that exist are either extremely good or extremely worthless...how do they do it to never find a balanced middle? Oh well cryptic, nevermind.

uryenserellont

baudl wrote: »

way too little boff space traits in the game anyway...and those that exist are either extremely good or extremely worthless...how do they do it to never find a balanced middle? Oh well cryptic, nevermind.

I don't think they've ever found a balanced middle, in anything.

lianthelia

vorwoda wrote: »

What about D'Vex's Space Warfare Specialist trait?

+5 Starship Maneuvers
+5 Starship Targeting Systems
+5 Starship Energy Weapon Specialization
+5 Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization

Don't think those small bonuses could compare to SRO...but it's a good alternative till you get more SRO's.

lianthelia

uryenserellont wrote: »

baudl wrote: »

way too little boff space traits in the game anyway...and those that exist are either extremely good or extremely worthless...how do they do it to never find a balanced middle? Oh well cryptic, nevermind.

I don't think they've ever found a balanced middle, in anything.

They don't know the definition of balance...all they know is extremes pretty much.

There is the Potato man with Pirate and Efficient...but still probably not worth losing a SRO.

postinggum

The nature of skill points in this game is that adding a few points generally creates a tiny improvement that you'd be hard pressed to notice from play. Any boff, doff, trait, piece of equipement, whatever, that adds points needs to be considered with some skepticism, especially with the hyperbolic language in the official descriptions.
http://www.amicushome.com/SkillPointEffects.htm


I suspect the other big skill point sink for Roms is stealth, a fairly expensive skill that you'll get tons of from traits, better to max out hull plating before spending on stealth.