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Are we on a different timeline?

I've been reading a lot of books that take place in the 2370's and 2380's and it doesn't seem like the game matches up. For example the existence of the Typhon Pact or the fact that in the Mirror Universe they've founded the Galactic Commonwealth and done away with the Terran Empire completely. I mean, a lot of the game was written before the books but you'd think they could retcon some of the stuff.

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  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    Yes, STO doesn't follow the novelverse books. The Borg still exist, the Typhon Pact doesn't, the original DS9 does, Romulus and Remus doesn't.
  • kavasekavase Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    STO is by itself in terms of story content. If there was to be another game, or movie or even T.V series, which was around the same time frame as STO, they wouldn't use or consider anything storyline wise in STO. I guess you could look at STO being in a different dimension, that's Star Trekie anyway, so it works in my mind. :)
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  • picard51picard51 Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Damn. That sucks because the novelverse has some great stories in it :/
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,167 Arc User
    picard51 wrote: »
    Damn. That sucks because the novelverse has some great stories in it :/

    I disagree about it sucking, because following the story of the novels would tie the hands of the devs and kill their freedom to tell their own original stories. That is what would truly suck.


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  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    This game follows on from nemesis and tie in Jar Jar Trek so this is more canon than the novels which are classed as non canon if that makes sense.​​
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  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    jam3s1701 wrote: »
    This game follows on from nemesis and tie in Jar Jar Trek so this is more canon than the novels which are classed as non canon if that makes sense.​​

    It makes sense...considering from what little snippets I've seen about some of the books...how wild and crazy they are...I mean one of the verse completely ignores canon...the one with the new DS9...and Sisko is around instead of being taken by the Prophets?


    Plus the Typhon Pact always sounded farfetched to me...I could never see some of those races being aligned...especially the Tholians with anyone.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    The only things we got from the books are the Luna and Vesta classes, and I think that's because they were so well designed they were accepted as Canon.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I for my part don’t care much what b- c- or d-canon writers came up with over the years.

    The series and movies (except the bad robot trek) are canon for me. While I was sceptical back in 2010 if a future setting of the prime universe would be a cool place to set this mmopg all doubts have been eliminated after 3,5 years playing sto.

    For me this game is canon and it quiet good at that. Aside from financial aspects as well as recent quality issues cryptic did a pretty good job to deliver Star Trek. I accept it totally as only legitimate continuation of the prime universe…
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    The various novelverses and this game split from Nemesis. ​​
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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  • kamenriderzero1kamenriderzero1 Member Posts: 906 Arc User
    Star Trek canon is the six tv shows and 12 movies. That's it. And the second show, the Animated Series (ST:TAS) was only recently declared full canon.

    Anything else is outside that.
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  • johnnymo1johnnymo1 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    ohhh... so robert april is canon now, cool
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    johnnymo1 wrote: »
    ohhh... so robert april is canon now, cool

    He's canon in all the various Trek's in some way or another.

    In my head-canon, the Animated Trek is just Season Four of TOS.
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  • skrapnelskrapnel Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    Yes, STO doesn't follow the novelverse books. The Borg still exist, the Typhon Pact doesn't, the original DS9 does, Romulus and Remus doesn't.

    STOis written as a branch of the prime universe, as are novels.... but Novels and STO are on separate branches. In fact, a lot of Novels are on separate branches. from even each other, story wise from the prime universe.
  • johnnymo1johnnymo1 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    Would be cool if cbs used STO as a way to introduce some of the expanded universe as canon. I like Ezri Dax as a captain, but like the borg still being around, so I think they would have to make some big choices....like the big mouse company just did with another well known space franchise.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    I don't think every decision the game has made has been flawless and I don't think the developers do either or we wouldn't see so much remastered/adjusted/removed content. Much of what we do get is the child of fun game mechanics, deadlines, and canon.

    My impression both are expected to roughly follow from the alternate futures shown on DS9, Voyager, and TNG. Both have to acknowledge the destruction of Romulus although the books get to avoid that by being set several years before it happens for the most part.

    Both CAN get away with changes but only changes they agree to have a built in reset button for. Meaning the novels killed on Janeway and eliminated the Borg ONLY on the condition they could come back. And they already brought Janeway back. Likewise, I'm sure the destruction of DS9, building of a new DS9, and return of Sisko were done contingent on the idea that novel universe architects are willing to to restore the original DS9 and write out Sisko on request.

    Technically, there's nothing about the Novelverse and STO that couldn't be fused together but it would involve some rapid changes, including destroyed planets getting restored. But it could happen.

    There are also the comics, which generally straddle the fence and have shifted to focus more on the J.J.verse. The only major interactions they've had with the Prime universe are:

    - They showed us Spock and Nero's departure as well as a resurrected Data (which the novels and STO agree on).
    - They've had a few minor incidents post-Nemesis.
    - They showed us Ambassador Picard mourning Spock in a Q story that had a Picard/Q conversation that led Q to mess with the J.J.-verse.
    - Brannon Braga wrote a miniseries set post-Nemesis that doesn't seem to tie in much with anything that had Andoria getting destroyed, the Borg seemingly defeated, and Seven of Nine dying. Granted, again, Andoria could always get restored, Seven of Nine could have come back a month later, and the Borg could always come back.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,167 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    skrapnel wrote: »
    Yes, STO doesn't follow the novelverse books. The Borg still exist, the Typhon Pact doesn't, the original DS9 does, Romulus and Remus doesn't.

    STOis written as a branch of the prime universe, as are novels.... but Novels and STO are on separate branches. In fact, a lot of Novels are on separate branches. from even each other, story wise from the prime universe.

    Yep. Neither STO nor the novels are canon. If a future TV series or movie is set in the prime timeline, and uses any of the story elements from STO or a novel, then those specific story elements will be canon. But even if specific story elements are used, that does not mean STO as a whole or the novels as a whole are canon, only the specific details mentioned on screen.

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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    picard51 wrote: »
    Damn. That sucks because the novelverse has some great stories in it :/

    The books suck more than STO TBH...
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    - Brannon Braga wrote a miniseries set post-Nemesis that doesn't seem to tie in much with anything that had Andoria getting destroyed, the Borg seemingly defeated, and Seven of Nine dying. Granted, again, Andoria could always get restored, Seven of Nine could have come back a month later, and the Borg could always come back.

    I despised that comic more than any other EU work ever. Puerile insanity. ​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    - Brannon Braga wrote a miniseries set post-Nemesis that doesn't seem to tie in much with anything that had Andoria getting destroyed, the Borg seemingly defeated, and Seven of Nine dying. Granted, again, Andoria could always get restored, Seven of Nine could have come back a month later, and the Borg could always come back.

    I despised that comic more than any other EU work ever. Puerile insanity. ​​

    I thought the dialogue was some of the best at capturing the character voices I'd seen and that makes sense because Braga created or helped develop many of those voices.

    The plot wasn't what I would have done and the execution of the plot wasn't what I would have done.

    I like Braga's dialogue. I like the very broad strokes of his ideas. I think he often works best when working with other writers who ask him to dial it back or who question him on how the specifics of those ideas work.

    I liked the idea in that of Data coming back from a future where he was resurrected and interacting with people who thought he was dead. I've always wanted to play with that idea myself because when you have a time portal to the future open up, you want a surprise to pop out and the best surprise is a future version of a person who is dead in the present. It was not as effective as it could have been as surprises go, seeing as how we'd seen Data come back across media at that point.

    For me, the scenario was completely insane. The characters were the most authentic for me that they'd felt in years. Little things. The Vash subplot, I think? But the scenario was insane.

    I think had it been a film, Picard as the Borg King would have been an acting triumph for Stewart but it's a nutty concept that doesn't have quite the same power behind it without an actor working to make sense out of it all.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    - Brannon Braga wrote a miniseries set post-Nemesis that doesn't seem to tie in much with anything that had Andoria getting destroyed, the Borg seemingly defeated, and Seven of Nine dying. Granted, again, Andoria could always get restored, Seven of Nine could have come back a month later, and the Borg could always come back.

    I despised that comic more than any other EU work ever. Puerile insanity.

    I thought the dialogue was some of the best at capturing the character voices I'd seen and that makes sense because Braga created or helped develop many of those voices.

    The plot wasn't what I would have done and the execution of the plot wasn't what I would have done.

    I like Braga's dialogue. I like the very broad strokes of his ideas. I think he often works best when working with other writers who ask him to dial it back or who question him on how the specifics of those ideas work.

    I liked the idea in that of Data coming back from a future where he was resurrected and interacting with people who thought he was dead. I've always wanted to play with that idea myself because when you have a time portal to the future open up, you want a surprise to pop out and the best surprise is a future version of a person who is dead in the present. It was not as effective as it could have been as surprises go, seeing as how we'd seen Data come back across media at that point.

    For me, the scenario was completely insane. The characters were the most authentic for me that they'd felt in years. Little things. The Vash subplot, I think? But the scenario was insane.

    I think had it been a film, Picard as the Borg King would have been an acting triumph for Stewart but it's a nutty concept that doesn't have quite the same power behind it without an actor working to make sense out of it all.

    I might expand on why later, but I'll just say now, my problem with it was the Borg, or rather everything the Borg have become, especially after VOY (ENT not withstanding, that was a good episode). This comic encapsulates all that decay and triples it. ​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    picard51 wrote: »
    I've been reading a lot of books that take place in the 2370's and 2380's and it doesn't seem like the game matches up. For example the existence of the Typhon Pact or the fact that in the Mirror Universe they've founded the Galactic Commonwealth and done away with the Terran Empire completely. I mean, a lot of the game was written before the books but you'd think they could retcon some of the stuff.

    Like the books STO is not canon, so its just another "fanfic"-level of story.​​
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    kavase wrote: »
    STO is by itself in terms of story content. If there was to be another game, or movie or even T.V series, which was around the same time frame as STO, they wouldn't use or consider anything storyline wise in STO. I guess you could look at STO being in a different dimension, that's Star Trekie anyway, so it works in my mind. :)
    I'm not convinced of the truth of this claim.
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