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Devs, how many clicks does it take to get to the center of a rep project?

Thirteen.

It takes thirteen clicks to collect the rewards of a completed project and contribute all three material types to get it going again. This must be repeated for each reputation for which a given character has enough materials, for each of a player's characters.

R&D and doff missions are the same way: accept the old, select the new, manually craft/purchase every required material, and get it going again.

Why do we have to do this?

I'll tell you why: because it is technically functional, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?

Nope!

Adhering to a single interface paradigm (using the mouse to manipulate button, scale, and entry widgets, with occasional use of the keyboard if you want to replicate a precise number of items) means you have fewer things to create, maintain, and document, but holy bejeebus is it a pain to use sometimes.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/02

Did you read the linked comic? Go on - it's funny, it's relevant, and it'll only take about 30 seconds of your time.

STO's interface is quite reasonable most of the time, but it falls down hard for these repetitive, largely mechanical tasks. This sort of thing is why mankind invented the computer. Humans are bad at repetitive, mechanical tasks, but computers are good at them. There's no reason - other than developer convenience - to make players handle this stuff. People can't complete real content while doing these chores, so they're not only wasting their own time, they're wasting server resources on something they don't even want to think about. Metrics? Players log in to play content - I doubt there are many people who log in only for rep projects and other housekeeping tasks. If you streamline these tasks with a more suitable UI, there will be no downside and you will make everyone's lives just that little bit better.

Completing the same rep projects every day? Set up a scheduled task and stop worrying about it. Do the same R&D research projects every day? Set up a scheduled task and stop worrying about it. Need five Industrial Energy Cells for that doff assignment? Just start the assignment and the EC will be automatically deducted from your available pool.

If the idea of scheduled tasks worries you and you want to retain some degree of "interactivity," create a single button that you can click to complete any available tasks that you've set up (rep project complete? Button lights up! Log in to several completed rep and R&D research projects? Button lights up! Click the button, monkey!). It would still be a very significant improvement.

As a programmer and regular CLI (command line interface) user, I have been thoroughly spoiled by the power to, say, bust out a quick
dir | findstr *.txt > text_files.txt
or
d = datetime.datetime.now().strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S')
for f in os.listdir('data/logs'):
    os.rename(f, f[:-4] + d + '.txt')

and avoid some tedious typing or mouse movement.

There's no benefit to having a human manually do all this clicking.

I strongly urge you to consider a more humane interface.
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Comments

  • stumpfgobsstumpfgobs Member Posts: 297 Arc User
    Do a count on the clicks it takes to grind down a very rare duty officer into comon duty officers. >:)

    That's where the interface really brings the hate.
  • jerichoredoranjerichoredoran Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    farranor wrote: »
    STO's interface is quite reasonable most of the time, ...
    Eek, where is that? Did I miss a new interface?
    farranor wrote: »
    I'll tell you why: because it is technically functional, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?
    No...

    except it's cryptic :p
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    Believe it or not, the UI for Starbase Projects used to be a lot worse. In particular was turning in commodities and R&D mats that was awful back then.
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  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    True, they need to do a full pass on UI. Visually it's ok, I love LCARS. But the functionality, it's a hell.
    I hope when they do it, they will add macroing and modifying the UI freely. This would be huge thing.
    So huge I would buy an LTS for Champions online...
    Tck7dQ2.jpg
    Dahar Master Mary Sue                                               Fleet Admiral Bloody Mary
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    The UI is absolutely terrible.

    The rhetorical slider manipulation. Just give me a freaking fill all button at the very least.

    The fact that I have to do it day after day the same stupid thing is also unforgivable. It is more than a little annoying to have to check and recheck because of how repetitive it is. Did I fill the rep project today or was that yesterday? Well, apparently I didn't fill it yesterday afterall.

    Lets not forget when I want to do say, projectile research, so I click the projectile category. Not beams. NOT BEAMS.

    There are a litany of UI issues I can list that really should be changed because of how frustrating and badly designed they are.
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    And the ammount of clicks to activate just a skill? thats epic.
  • kavasekavase Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    I think STO is being endorsed by the mouse companies.
    Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
  • stumpfgobsstumpfgobs Member Posts: 297 Arc User
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    And the ammount of clicks to activate just a skill? thats epic.

    That's actually pretty good! :D
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    It's not a problem, it takes a few seconds and is far far better than it used to be.

    What needs to be addressed is the stupid amount of doffs the projects need for the starbase. Building our T5 KDF base now requires me to click about 300 times to buy 300 doffs from the commissioning officer on the starbase and then clicking another 300 times to open the boxes, and that's per tier per day, and there are three tiers. This is seriously tiring and annoying. Just give us the option to buy as many doffs as we can afford in one click.

    Heck, that's bad enough but, purchasing some 240-300 freakin photon torpedo mki's that do not stack in inventory, for SB projects is another nightmare!

    At least now, they added the contribute all to doffs, for fleet projects!!!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    And the ammount of clicks to activate just a skill? thats epic.

    It's a reporting bug!
    XzRTofz.gif
  • farranorfarranor Member Posts: 559 Arc User
    It's not a problem, it takes a few seconds and is far far better than it used to be.

    What needs to be addressed is the stupid amount of doffs the projects need for the starbase. Building our T5 KDF base now requires me to click about 300 times to buy 300 doffs from the commissioning officer on the starbase and then clicking another 300 times to open the boxes, and that's per tier per day, and there are three tiers. This is seriously tiring and annoying. Just give us the option to buy as many doffs as we can afford in one click.

    The doff purchasing issue you describe is identical to the rep, doff assignment, and R&D project issues in everything but scale. Read this description of the process to refill a rep project and tell me it's okay:
    1. Click to collect reward
    2. Click to select rep category
    3. Scroll to reveal desired rep project button
    4. Click rep project button
    5. Click active project
    6. Click contribute for EC
    7. Click/drag slider to max
    8. Click fill
    9. Click contribute for skill points
    10. Click/drag slider to max
    11. Click fill
    12. Click contribute for marks
    13. Click/drag slider to max
    14. Click fill

    This is for every single rep project you want to refill, for each character.

    The process does not change in the slightest between characters or rep categories, or over time.

    A few seconds? Sure, just 10-20 seconds... per project. On any given day, I may be refilling a dozen or more of these per day. Now it's a few minutes. Then add accepting and restarting doff assignments, cycling R&D projects, and replicating materials for doff assignments.

    Tell me this is not a problem.

    Tell me this is a positive contribution to your gameplay experience.

    Tell me you don't feel silly putting money into buckets in a game involving holodecks and transporters and voice-activated interfaces, on a computer capable of billions of operations per second.

    Do you think that, if the devs overhauled the UI to embrace a new hybrid paradigm of mouse clicks where necessary and automated commands where possible, you and your doff purchasing habits wouldn't benefit?

    Everyone would win.
  • alexvio1alexvio1 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    Just give us the option to buy as many doffs as we can afford in one click.
    Also we need "use all" option for fleet doff boxes...
  • durenasdurenas Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    we should be able to contribute doff boxes to projects without having to commission the doffs. Also boffs. Eeww.
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  • psychoplattpsychoplatt Member Posts: 285 Arc User
    chances are around 99% that If they add a "place all and start button" it will be bugged. U will for sure loose anything u have by using it in the first week. :)
    nice u wasted so much time in your sig - i do not see it anyway :)
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    And the ammount of clicks to activate just a skill? thats epic.

    It's a reporting bug!

    You mean an "intended feature"? :D
  • alexvio1alexvio1 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    durenas wrote: »
    we should be able to contribute doff boxes to projects without having to commission the doffs. Also boffs. Eeww.
    This will not work because standard boxes may drop various departments doffs with various drop chance. Additionally these boxes have refugees which cannot be contributed in fleet projects. And finally, they sell very expensive doffs roster slots, no one will have to buy more than 200 of additional slots if we will be able to contribute doffs without need of opening the boxes.
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    I'd like a checkbox to show/not show R+D school doffs on selection screens for feeding them into the woodchipper.

    A fill all button for projects that just require numbers and not individual selections would be nice too.

    3+ sliders I just slide to max without thinking before hitting finish are an annoyance and not fun game play.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,748 Arc User
    I truly believe some of the UI choices are intentionally dragged out to juke stats for login times.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • primar13primar13 Member Posts: 1,896 Bug Hunter
    The World may never know...

    yeah coulndn't help it...
    I'll go now :smile:
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    primar13 wrote: »
    The World may never know...

    yeah coulndn't help it...
    I'll go now :smile:

    The owl is an exploiter.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User

    Heck, that's bad enough but, purchasing some 240-300 freakin photon torpedo mki's that do not stack in inventory, for SB projects is another nightmare!

    At least now, they added the contribute all to doffs, for fleet projects!!!

    Don't forget food and drinks for the commissary that does stack but you have to buy individually.

    And the fact that you need 150 * 3 projects to get from Tier IV to V, come on, more experience Projects would be nice. 69K Doffs for all that as well.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • farranorfarranor Member Posts: 559 Arc User
    Lets not forget when I want to do say, projectile research, so I click the projectile category. Not beams. NOT BEAMS.

    Just happened to me a few seconds ago.

    *deep breath*

    *suppressed scream*

    Ow.

    If there were a way to cancel a project (spending a huge pile of dilithium to finish it early doesn't count), it wouldn't be so egregious.
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 831 Arc User
    Not really think DEVS would care much for it. They should but not cost effective from management side
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    farranor wrote: »
    Lets not forget when I want to do say, projectile research, so I click the projectile category. Not beams. NOT BEAMS.

    Just happened to me a few seconds ago.

    *deep breath*

    *suppressed scream*

    Ow.

    If there were a way to cancel a project (spending a huge pile of dilithium to finish it early doesn't count), it wouldn't be so egregious.

    This happens to me very often. I must say at the beginning it was not so bad, but right now is annoying as hell. :/ , as other amusing things in game. There is a time where all those little things pile up, and in the end is all a big annoying mess. I dont think i can handle all of these "features" for too long already.
  • edited August 2015
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  • farranorfarranor Member Posts: 559 Arc User
    deokkent wrote: »
    There is a lot of waa waaah going on in here. A more humane interface? Are you serious? We have far more critical bugs in the game. Gamebreaking bugs. And you're complaining about getting to the reputation projects.

    Just stfu.

    PS: it took this crazy spoiled OP to actually TRIBBLE me off about something in the game lol. Interesting.

    So, problems that other people care about are just a joke and we're like spoiled little crybabies who should just shut up, but the problems that you care about are "critical" and deserve 100% of developer attention?

    If I had a dollar for every time a sociopath outed itself on the Internet, I could quit my job.
  • edited August 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »

    Heck, that's bad enough but, purchasing some 240-300 freakin photon torpedo mki's that do not stack in inventory, for SB projects is another nightmare!

    At least now, they added the contribute all to doffs, for fleet projects!!!

    Don't forget food and drinks for the commissary that does stack but you have to buy individually.

    And the fact that you need 150 * 3 projects to get from Tier IV to V, come on, more experience Projects would be nice. 69K Doffs for all that as well.

    Exactly, case in point!

    I just used the torpedoes as an example, and your example also shows how inefficient the system is!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

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