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So, how is the new exploration system coming?

At the beginning of the year we had a poll about what type of content people wanted, and exploration was the big winner. How is the system coming? Will it be released this year as a christmas present or for the anniversary next year?

The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008

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Comments

  • gazurtoidgazurtoid Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    No, it may have looked like people voted for exploration content, but in reality they all secretly voted for more lockboxes, promo ships, and T6 rereleases of T5 ships.
    yjkZSeM.gif
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    Don't forget the copy/paste reputation grind every 6 months.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    And yet randomized patrols with little plot and gameplay (ie. "exploration") was one of the more vehemently cursed things introduced by Delta Rising.

    What does this tell you about using the mob to design something? You'll get two contradictory answers depending on how you phrase the question. In the end people don't know what they want, they just know how to answer polls (see. Trump's candidacy).
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,167 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    And yet randomized patrols with little plot and gameplay (ie. "exploration") was one of the more vehemently cursed things introduced by Delta Rising.

    There was no exploration in Delta Rising. Every mission was about some known faction or species, not discovering anything new. In other words, what you just said has nothing to do with the topic of exploration.
    What does this tell you about using the mob to design something? You'll get two contradictory answers depending on how you phrase the question. In the end people don't know what they want, they just know how to answer polls (see. Trump's candidacy).

    Please leave your political commentary out of this thread. Thanks!

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    At the beginning of the year we had a poll about what type of content people wanted, and exploration was the big winner. How is the system coming? Will it be released this year as a christmas present or for the anniversary next year?

    who was it that posted that poll, and what happened to them soon after?
    http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1180107/sto-player-poll-february-12th-2015

    poll results didnt survive the forum migration, but you can still see them on wayback
    http://web.archive.org/web/20150327140110/http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1375241
    ​​
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    And yet randomized patrols with little plot and gameplay (ie. "exploration") was one of the more vehemently cursed things introduced by Delta Rising.

    There was no exploration in Delta Rising. Every mission was about some known faction or species, not discovering anything new. In other words, what you just said has nothing to do with the topic of exploration.

    And every old exploration mission still dealt with a known species (it was just one cryptic invented). And gameplay was even less variable. So how does that get the label and patrols not? Its the same type of content, same function in the game (except for those improvements made for the second iteration) just different branding.

    Besides, first contact scenarios are not, and have never been, the sole defining element of what "exploration is." See most of star trek, and human history for that matter. Its just an arbitrary condition that allows you to split hairs between two varieties of patrols with randomized elements (more of which will not improve the game any more than revamped sector encounters and patrols have. And to be fair to those guys, that isn't to say that they haven't had a constructive impact on the game. Its just that a third go at "exploration" wouldn't do any better [because what you need is something a hell of a lot more like the foundry-system-in-the-sector block, not more random number generation/"exploration".])

    And the point: you can't trust polls (much like you cant trust coincidences, -Garak). Its not going to tell you what you to, only what people feel should be done. The difference is that you can see for yourself, in coming to an individual opinion, what works and what doesn't and justify what to do next according to logic/reason. The poll is, by its very definition, just a popularity contest. Other factors besides reason will also influence what wins (so, don't take them at face value and assume what they tell you should make it into the next major update).
    Please leave your political commentary out of this thread. Thanks!
    Sorry for using real-world examples (which strictly speaking is commentary on political science, ie. how it works) to illustrate a point for better effect. I'll keep to introvertive forum logic in future. :P
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • orion0029orion0029 Member Posts: 1,122 Bug Hunter
    "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"

    The memory is fading... really miss those 'exploration' missions, dispite being just a pre-determined group of randomly cycled missions, it felt a lot more like Star Trek than what we have now.

    I'd like to know as well, when can we go exploring the galaxy/universe?
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,167 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    And yet randomized patrols with little plot and gameplay (ie. "exploration") was one of the more vehemently cursed things introduced by Delta Rising.

    There was no exploration in Delta Rising. Every mission was about some known faction or species, not discovering anything new. In other words, what you just said has nothing to do with the topic of exploration.

    And every old exploration mission still dealt with a known species (it was just one cryptic invented). And gameplay was even less variable. So how does that get the label and patrols not?

    It's pretty simple: Cryptic called the star cluster missions exploration(even though they weren't). They never called the DR patrols exploration(and they aren't either). And there you have it: the answer to how one got the label, and the other did not.
    Besides, first contact scenarios are not, and have never been, the sole defining element of what "exploration is."

    You are responding as if someone actually said that, but they didn't. What I *did* say was that the missions where we were dealing with all of these species that were already know to us were not exploration. I didn't say anything about "first contact", although that is admittedly part of exploration. But I never said it was the "sole defining element", which your statement implies.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    And yet randomized patrols with little plot and gameplay (ie. "exploration") was one of the more vehemently cursed things introduced by Delta Rising.

    There was no exploration in Delta Rising. Every mission was about some known faction or species, not discovering anything new. In other words, what you just said has nothing to do with the topic of exploration.

    And every old exploration mission still dealt with a known species (it was just one cryptic invented). And gameplay was even less variable. So how does that get the label and patrols not?

    It's pretty simple: Cryptic called the star clusters exploration(even though they weren't). They never called the DR patrols exploration(and they aren't either). But that answers your question of how one got the label and the other did not(even though the label was a lie).

    That's obvious. The question now is what does cryptic do next. Do they bring back "exploration"? Well, no they shouldn't. What they should do is fill out the sector block with more narratively focused content. That gets us closer to a workable star trek universe (comparable to what we saw in the TV shows, only edited for the video game format) which is a relatively near objective for the game to shoot for (a lot of it is already in place, it just needs more development).

    "Exploration" requires a lot more from STO's point of view. Take a game like No Man's Sky. That's "exploration" according to the old STO definition, only its done a lot more with it and come to a workable gameplay concept. Ditto something like Spore (at the galactic civilization stage.) Given those games, and a lot else like it, there's a recognizable standard for how an "exploration" game should work. To work that into STO one would basically need to build an entirely new game. Not "new expansion", new game. New mechanics, new systems, new AI, new gameplay models, and a considerably larger scale.

    That might be something to think about if someone tries to develop another ST MMO/RPG, but this one? Its episodic, locally focused, and handles narratives rather well. It should play to those strengths and build out a better setting for it, not throw resources away to make something else entirely to appeal to an erratic interest group (see. polling comments) who are being almost specifically catered to with high profile games in the near future (see. the space sim genre).
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,167 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    And yet randomized patrols with little plot and gameplay (ie. "exploration") was one of the more vehemently cursed things introduced by Delta Rising.

    There was no exploration in Delta Rising. Every mission was about some known faction or species, not discovering anything new. In other words, what you just said has nothing to do with the topic of exploration.

    And every old exploration mission still dealt with a known species (it was just one cryptic invented). And gameplay was even less variable. So how does that get the label and patrols not?

    It's pretty simple: Cryptic called the star clusters exploration(even though they weren't). They never called the DR patrols exploration(and they aren't either). But that answers your question of how one got the label and the other did not(even though the label was a lie).

    That's obvious. The question now is what does cryptic do next. Do they bring back "exploration"? Well, no they shouldn't.

    That is a completely valid opinion, and is no more right or wrong than anyone else's opinion.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    That is a completely valid opinion, and is no more right or wrong than anyone else's opinion.
    Indeed indeed, its just how I see things and correspondingly argue from.

    I don't see why "exploration" should be added to the game. However I've done a little bit more to justify that opinion than other commentators because the crux of my opinion isn't "what I'd like" but what it seems will work for the game in its present state. Now of course my comments are not to be taken as pure statements of truth, not by any stretch of the imagination...

    ...but its not exactly an equitable comment to say that its as right or as wrong as anyone else's opinion. Opinions are variously justified, some by the most tenuous connection to reality. This is a justifiable opinion from a certain point of view. It connects and presents evidence that other people are able to consider from their own frame of reference. That subjective point of view is as valid as analogous points of view, ie. those that have also taken a loot at things and tried to figure out what's going (because there is no objective test to sort out these various points of view).

    However its more likely to be correct (ie. to reflect what will happen if certain changes are made to STO) than other opinions which haven't looked at the evidence as closely (ie. have just stated a personal preference for this type of content or that).


    Anyway, my point here is just to stress that I'm speaking from a functional point of view (as best as I can). I'm not saying what anyone should or shouldn't prefer, only what Cryptic can probably get away with in future content updates.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,167 Arc User
    That is a completely valid opinion, and is no more right or wrong than anyone else's opinion.
    Indeed indeed, its just how I see things and correspondingly argue from.

    I don't see why "exploration" should be added to the game. However I've done a little bit more to justify that opinion than other commentators because the crux of my opinion isn't "what I'd like" but what it seems will work for the game in its present state. Now of course my comments are not to be taken as pure statements of truth, not by any stretch of the imagination...

    ...but its not exactly an equitable comment to say that its as right or as wrong as anyone else's opinion. Opinions are variously justified, some by the most tenuous connection to reality. This is a justifiable opinion from a certain point of view. It connects and presents evidence that other people are able to consider from their own frame of reference. That subjective point of view is as valid as analogous points of views, ie. those that have also taken a loot at things and tried to figure out what's going on.

    However its more likely to be correct (ie. to reflect what will happen if certain changes are made to STO) than other opinions which haven't looked at the evidence as closely (ie. have just stated a personal preference for this type of content or that).

    That too, is a completely valid opinion, and is just as right as anyone else's opinion.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User

    That too, is a completely valid opinion, and is just as right as anyone else's opinion.

    Should I just make this my sig? It would save a lot of bother. :)

    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    gazurtoid wrote: »
    No, it may have looked like people voted for exploration content, but in reality they all secretly voted for more lockboxes, promo ships, and T6 rereleases of T5 ships.

    There was a poll about what show we wanted content from sometime before that, and the winning vote was Voyager. Thus... Delta Rising and the Voyager crew.

    BTW... you're kinda switching content for means to fund the game. They're gonna make stuff to sell alongside actual content.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    POPCORN! Get yer fresh hot popcorn to go with the drama!
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • thomaselkinsthomaselkins Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    I'm sure some form of Exploration could be on the way. It's definitely possible that the Gamma Quadrant will be added someday and we actually know very little about it so Cryptic could use some creative liberty and give us something we haven't seen before. I think the Delta Quadrant has plenty of room to explore as well since there are plenty of areas Voyager didn't explore that we can then explore for ourselves. And if they ever get bored of the Milky Way galaxy, there is always Andromeda to look forward to.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,167 Arc User

    That too, is a completely valid opinion, and is just as right as anyone else's opinion.

    Should I just make this my sig? It would save a lot of bother. :)

    No bother here. Every reply is a bump to the top B)

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    rattler2 wrote: »
    gazurtoid wrote: »
    No, it may have looked like people voted for exploration content, but in reality they all secretly voted for more lockboxes, promo ships, and T6 rereleases of T5 ships.

    There was a poll about what show we wanted content from sometime before that, and the winning vote was Voyager. Thus... Delta Rising and the Voyager crew.

    Well, not exactly thus. Cryptic said they used that poll to feel out the potential reception of an update that was already being planned (if not actually developed.)

    Basically its just artistic feedback. If the poll swung in a different direction what probably would have happened is that the Delta Quadrant would have had a stronger connection with TOS/TNG/DS9/ENT species/factions/characters. Maybe instead of the Vaadwuar we could have had a Solonae invasion preluding the Herald. Alternatively, the dominion could have taken an interest in the expeditionary force and Captain Nog may have had his debut a season early. Ditto Xindi, and Captain Shon may have become quite a lot more Shran like than we've so far seen. But with VOY leading the way Cryptic had some assurances that they could commit to a VOY heavy cast and focus without too much conceptual backlash.

    This BTW is pure speculation and is just as likely to be wrong as right.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    At the beginning of the year we had a poll about what type of content people wanted, and exploration was the big winner. How is the system coming? Will it be released this year as a christmas present or for the anniversary next year?

    who was it that posted that poll, and what happened to them soon after?
    http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1180107/sto-player-poll-february-12th-2015

    poll results didnt survive the forum migration, but you can still see them on wayback
    http://web.archive.org/web/20150327140110/http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1375241
    ​​

    Don't you know...
    Cryptic has decided that giving us the Second Best Stuff is the way to go.
    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User

    That too, is a completely valid opinion, and is just as right as anyone else's opinion.

    Should I just make this my sig? It would save a lot of bother. :)

    No bother here. Every reply is a bump to the top B)

    That's devious. :sunglasses:
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    I'm sure some form of Exploration could be on the way. It's definitely possible that the Gamma Quadrant will be added someday and we actually know very little about it so Cryptic could use some creative liberty and give us something we haven't seen before. I think the Delta Quadrant has plenty of room to explore as well since there are plenty of areas Voyager didn't explore that we can then explore for ourselves. And if they ever get bored of the Milky Way galaxy, there is always Andromeda to look forward to.
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're going to end up going there eventually. :P
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    I'd be interested in seeing the Andromeda Galaxy. I mean seriously... who knows what kind of tech is out there! TOTAL clean slate to work off of.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Gotta love all the people hating on exploration. :/

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    It's pretty funny that if you look at the poll results, 'More Fleet Functionality ' was 2nd to last on the wish list with only 9.47% of the vote..

    So what was the feature of Season 10.5 you ask?

    A new fleet holding and fleet Armada system.


    Why even have the poll?
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    Gotta love all the people hating on exploration. :/
    I don't hate exploration, I hate fake exploration. :p Fake exploration is stuff like the old clusters where all you really did was go to random places, and never saw anything new.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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