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is dps biggest mistake ???

game with alll new damge traits,command ships ,pilot ship is unplayble.fact,solution reduce damage outpout,you dont need more then 16k.

less damage less lag,

tell people which ships are playable so less lag in the game,i mean t5 u ships with no dr or post dr traits.more stable game.

move game towards exploaration/story so you have more time to fix the game..

15% of players are dps players others are here becouse they love star trek,not some stupid chase for who have the biggest ... in the game..so you actually can gain more players by killing dps then pushing dps more and kill the game for good.

Yeah i think,your game can handle all this damage,no need for 100k dsp,if you can do 100 k or more game is boring as hell..

with less damage more team play,result more fun for all.

less dps more skill..you actually need to have skill to finish some mission,not space bar..

bring back pvp ,why the hell any game would kill pvp??
Pvp was way better then this dps online race..

I dont hate dps but main reason for this state of the game is dps race,or broken traits for even more dps..
servers are other part of the story.so comment this ,thx.
So let try something different.



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Comments

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  • majosea61majosea61 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    game with alll new damge traits,command ships ,pilot ship is unplayble.fact,solution reduce damage outpout,you dont need more then 16k.

    less damage less lag,

    tell people which ships are playable so less lag in the game,i mean t5 u ships with no dr or post dr traits.more stable game.

    move game towards exploaration/story so you have more time to fix the game..

    15% of players are dps players others are here becouse they love star trek,not some stupid chase for who have the biggest ... in the game..so you actually can gain more players by killing dps then pushing dps more and kill the game for good.

    Yeah i think,your game can handle all this damage,no need for 100k dsp,if you can do 100 k or more game is boring as hell..

    with less damage more team play,result more fun for all.

    less dps more skill..you actually need to have skill to finish some mission,not space bar..

    bring back pvp ,why the hell any game would kill pvp??
    Pvp was way better then this dps online race..

    I dont hate dps but main reason for this state of the game is dps race,or broken traits for even more dps..
    servers are other part of the story.so comment this ,thx.
    So let try something different.



    I agree with the OP. the DPS race has sucked the fun from the game for a lot of us. I play for the fun of it and did enjoy the game more with the traitless ships. I love Star Trek Online not DPS Online.
  • sysil84sysil84 Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I get that some people want some competitive play, and DPS is about the only way left to do so in STO. My personal opinion on this mirrors the OP's: the DPS race is pretty useless since you're just measuring it against the NPCs in the same mission over and over.

    True competitive play requires PvP. PvP is where you need to adapt, help your team and learn everything about the game instead of just concentrating on DPS. Where you don't face NPCs with a fraction of the abilities of player ships and the intelligence of a wallnut.

    The problem is Cryptic's business model: new ships, new traits, new BO powers, endless grind and no thought about balance or fixing gamebreaking bugs.
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    "less damage less lag" lol... dps has nothing to do with it. You know what is the solution? fix bugs and the code base of the game. Thats the only thing that will solve the lag and unstability issues that are not related to the crappy servers they have and cogentco and other things. It will not matter if you reduce the dps to 1k, if the code base is still messed up like the end of the days.

    And since more dps = more power creep = more money for em, lol, i dont think they will even think slighty to to do what you are proposing.. ever lol.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Strictly speaking, DPS doesn't cause lag. If a ship has 2x the crit chance of another, the game is still using the same processing time to calculate crits because every shot has to check the crit chance. Returning a 10 instead of a 5 doesn't change the fact the computer had to run the function for both ships to determine the answer was 5 or 10.

    So if you lower your weapon power or drop some crit chance, you are not doing anything at all to help lag, just making things take longer.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,924 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Ah, some people like me who aren't in it for the dps. I occasionally now can pull a 20k hit on ships, but not all the time. I do fine in missions. Yes, I take longer to kill things, but dead is dead, whether it takes 10 secs or 10 mins to kill it. As long as I survive and don't blow up I count it as a win.

    Right now, my main I'm playing now is flying a lobi store T5-U Dyson Science Destroyer with the Solanae ship set, The Dyson experimental proton weapon set, and the Omega cutting beam set. That's just the sets. It survives the Vaadwaur cluster torpedoes (if I can't hit rocknroll [love this, btw] fast enough)

    So no, you don't need tons of dps to play game, you just need survivability.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    I agree with the OP. the DPS race has sucked the fun from the game for a lot of us. I play for the fun of it and did enjoy the game more with the traitless ships. I love Star Trek Online not DPS Online.

    I do too, but a lot of the more recent content will require adjusting, since it was designed using the dps power creep averages as baseline.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
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  • majosea61majosea61 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    As for the dps not causing lag, I have to agree....it is the effects(sound , lighting, etc.) that is produced by the uber pew-pew ships that are causing a lot of lag (not all of us can afford high end computers with the best graphic cards).
    But what is challenging about going into an stf and pew-pew for a minute or so and patting each other on the back for a quick and easy victory? I remember when STF's used to be long and challenging with space and ground combined. You had to have different roles to complete the missions. When you finished the mission you actually felt like you accomplished something.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    majosea61 wrote: »
    I remember when STF's used to be long and challenging with space and ground combined. You had to have different roles to complete the missions. When you finished the mission you actually felt like you accomplished something.

    THAT sounds interesting. It must have been a long time ago, since I've been here a few years and STFs were always either space or ground for me.

    I'd love it if the content would encourage building for both forms of combat, Space and Ground, in a way like that.

    As for roles I don't mind em as long as there's freedom of customizing your said role.
    I run Crowd Control/Debuff science officers and team Defense/Damage buff engineers.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,924 Arc User
    As for PvP, I don't do it, ever. I'm not in the game to fight other players, I'm in it for the story and the occasional PvE.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    Dont expect guys the lag issues to be solved when the majority of the players really dont care about bugfixing lol. And that is the first thing to do before you can solve any lag problem. Will people understand this someday? i dont know, but i hope so.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    No.

    /10chars​​
  • majosea61majosea61 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »

    THAT sounds interesting. It must have been a long time ago, since I've been here a few years and STFs were always either space or ground for me.

    I'd love it if the content would encourage building for both forms of combat, Space and Ground, in a way like that.

    As for roles I don't mind em as long as there's freedom of customizing your said role.
    I run Crowd Control/Debuff science officers and team Defense/Damage buff engineers.

    It was the first couple of years of the game before they separated the ground and space portions of the stf's. They were really fun to do... well except for the one where you had to hop the boxes to stay out of the green mist that killed you but even doing that was a challenge and you felt really good by completing it.

  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Really?

    The majority of the players love being sunk into the floor environments and their bridge officers randomly vanishing or falling under the map?

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • This content has been removed.
  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    You guys missed the big announcement. DPS Online is going away! They're going to give more details at the Star Trek Las Vegas Convention, but they have promised us an entirely new game:

    "The Star Trek Online team will be hosting a very special panel where we take you on a journey through the ideation, creation, and implementation of the Star Trek universe from a classic series to a masterful, digital experience."

    Confirmation blog post here: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9469033-star-trek-online:-star-trek-las-vegas

    As everyone knows, DPS Online is not based on "a classic series" and is anything but "a masterful, digital experience". So we are going to get an entirely new game based on the Real Star Trek series and it will be an awesome game, not this DPS Online drivel.

    While I'm hoping that this new Star Trek game they have promised us will be an actual MMO, the very best part is that it will actually be based on Star Trek and won't have any of that Soap Opera Generation, Shopping Mall 9, Gilligan Wants To Go Home, or Quantum Bakula stuff.

    So, cheer up OP, Lag Trek Online will soon be a thing of the past to be replaced by online gaming perfection!
  • majosea61majosea61 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    Really?

    The majority of the players love being sunk into the floor environments and their bridge officers randomly vanishing or falling under the map?

    Yeah there were those glitches but didn't happen all of the time, though I can never recall having BO's in an STF, but heck those glitches could have been fixed by now.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    majosea61 wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    Really?

    The majority of the players love being sunk into the floor environments and their bridge officers randomly vanishing or falling under the map?

    Yeah there were those glitches but didn't happen all of the time, though I can never recall having BO's in an STF, but heck those glitches could have been fixed by now.

    Not talking about an STF, but regular missions with BoFFs will sometimes have occasional hilarious but annoying bugs.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • majosea61majosea61 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    majosea61 wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    Really?

    The majority of the players love being sunk into the floor environments and their bridge officers randomly vanishing or falling under the map?

    Yeah there were those glitches but didn't happen all of the time, though I can never recall having BO's in an STF, but heck those glitches could have been fixed by now.

    Not talking about an STF, but regular missions with BoFFs will sometimes have occasional hilarious but annoying bugs.
    Yeah especially in the exploration missions, you start out and all of a sudden all of your BO's are gone under a hill and you end up fighting the bad guys alone.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,924 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Oh, I've done that several times during exploration missions. Or you're in some facility and your BOFFs start getting stuck in the previous room cause they couldn't find the doorway. I lost count of the times I had to backtrack and retrieve them.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • majosea61majosea61 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    The "Ring of Fire" mission in the old Cardassian story arc was especially bad since your BO's would get stuck on the bridges or worse, jump into the lava.
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    majosea61 wrote: »
    Yeah especially in the exploration missions, you start out and all of a sudden all of your BO's are gone under a hill and you end up fighting the bad guys alone.

    Thats the reason i am an expert ground fighter. I usually fight alone most of the times.. ^^

    On a sidenote it is curious how people keep asking about ground boff related content when they cant even bring the whole team to regular battlezones or other parts of the game, just episodes lol. I mean, it makes no sense. But people want everything i get that lol.
  • ryakidrysryakidrys Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    Very little in STO can be done effectively without blowing something up, which means damage output, and taken over a given period of time, is DPS. Ok, so you can be successful in azure nebula rescue without firing a shot, but that is the outlier. The creators of this game made it about DPS. It is the developers that created the power creep to entice folks to buy stuff. As for graphics, I've run STFs with teammates that have far superior PCs and graphics cards and many times, I lag far less often than they do. Devs have admitted to excessive processing causing at least some of the lag. That excessive processing is not necessarily on our computers. Because there isn't transparency on the issue of lag, blaming anything isn't without the possibility of misunderstanding it and/ or being wrong.
    Has the DPS race sapped the fun out of the game? For some, yes, it certainly has. The never ending upgrades, immense pools of EC, dilithium, lobi and Zen that are needed making it seem too daunting for some to keep up. You feel like you are being left behind by many of your peers, even fleet mates. Being left behind sucks. I feel it too. Do I blame them, nope. Some folks are gifted with the resources, some have to grind through this and that to generate enough resources to do any upgrades.
    Chasing DPS can give one focus too. Achieving goals you set for yourself can be very rewarding. Not everyone will find that fun, though.
    In the end, diversity isn't bad. Some folks want to focus on something, and while DPS is popular, it is not the only thing to focus on. Lag is a problem that can't be resolved by players without some transparency from the other side. As for fun, find what you like to do, and have fun with it. If fun to you as making the biggest grav well possible, please use it wisely, but have fun with it!
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    The only "but" here is that you dont need to upgrade anything at all.. actually. You dont need to contribute to the race of the dps drain. Except the elite queues, any content is more than doable with just regular mk XI-mkXII equpiment. For a lot of us, going beyond mk XII is stupid and pointless because we dont need to. The only players who are "forced" to upgrade are the ones who really dont care at all about having fun and stop the dps race. They only want the best of the best because they see that as their end-game goal even if it is pointless lol. And that is really sad.

    Because at the same time a lot of traits/masteries/skills that are affecting the gameplay are not needed, or better said, we could have far less ammount of em to make the game more enjoyable and more challenging. And in the process we will eliminate some performance issues and the data will travel smoothly trough the wires. But no, we "need" a lot of things we need a lot of stuff, we need a lot of new shinys.. always the same story. Even knowing that the server and the game engine cant handle this race... players keep asking for more.. they never learn, unfortunately.
  • majosea61majosea61 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    Ryakidrys..not going to quote you since that is a rather large paragraph but that is pretty much right on the nose but what kittyflofy added beneath it is correct as well
  • crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    majosea61 wrote: »
    As for the dps not causing lag, I have to agree....it is the effects(sound , lighting, etc.) that is produced by the uber pew-pew ships that are causing a lot of lag (not all of us can afford high end computers with the best graphic cards).
    But what is challenging about going into an stf and pew-pew for a minute or so and patting each other on the back for a quick and easy victory? I remember when STF's used to be long and challenging with space and ground combined. You had to have different roles to complete the missions. When you finished the mission you actually felt like you accomplished something.


    I have to agree with this guy. Seeing what STO evolved (or devolved from one's perspective) from beta you can see definitely an increase amount of cool consoles, DPS laced effects and creeping powers that have shoot up as time went on.

    I'm not sure that DPS on its own its the culprit but what might be the cause are the cool toys that gets one player to accumulate the "insane" amount of DPS hikes. Can you imagine the vast amounts of traits, consoles, crit hiking power creeps of the last few years? It's an orgy of power creep and something has to give in. PWE wants the money and will collect from you no matter what. Specially since players want the latest cool toys. However, what PWE never has done is to expand its server bandwidth or design to cope with the power creep of recent years.

    This is by far NO EVE nor has the ability to adjust the increase amount of power creep. IMO I have no need for the high DPS since I don't PvP. Cryptic has killed PvP since DR. IMO whats the fuss about getting the coolest toys to show it to an NPC who could care less how long does it take to bring it down...if you are talking to another more intelligent human at the other end of your PC (PvP) then it is more different than just wasting resources to meaningless NPC bosses normal-50.gif
    ​​
    DUwNP.gif

  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    I'm just gonna touch on the DPS = Lag issue.

    Firstly, I'm going to point out the blatantly obvious (by the way, I've been gaming for over 30 years and am very knowledgeable about PC's). Alot of people that are complaining about FPS lag, well, that's not an issue with server lag, it's your hardware. I know very well that people are overly optimistic with their graphics settings. I run STO on a 5 year old laptop (2.1Ghz dual core, 2 GB RAM and 786MB Video) with very little FPS lag because I reduced the graphics settings. It doesn't affect the quality of the graphics much, as all it reduces is things that don't affect gameplay, yet still presents a beautiful game.

    Now, as I live across the pond in the UK I expect some lag, however I get very little, even pinging at a total of 118ms, which is acceptable enough. I get very little rubberbanding, and I'm talking about 2 or 3 times during a 3 hour period during peaktime.

    All this, by the way, was before the server upgrade a few weeks ago.

    So in basic, Rubberbanding and UI lag = Server lag, FPS stalling = Your machine!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    For those who might say...IT's all in your head...there is NO LAG in STO..and its on your hardware..NOT cryptic's seems analogous to:

    "There are four lights." Madred shocks Picard, and repeats "There are five lights. How many do you see now?" and shocks Picard again.


    https://youtube.com/watch?v=o_eSwq1ewsU


    But seriously...here are some facts:

    DUwNP.gif

  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    DPS has nothing to do with lag.
    Rendering of effects has nothing to do with lag, since that is happening on your computer. If it'S a problem on your computer (maybe your graphics card is weak), then you'll see a low framerate most likely.


    What might cause server lag is the various abilities you have, that need calculated. If your client says the server that you clicked on Emergency Power to Shields, the server must check: Can he do that, or is the power still on cooldown. If it is allowed to happen, what special abilities are triggered? Can they be triggered, or are they on a cooldown. And that is for any ability you do.

    It doesn'T matter if it's an ability that boosts your damage or an ability that grants you a heal, or an abilty that makes you move faster, or repels the enemy, or whatever. It just matters that'S a lot of abilities. For a lot of players. If it takes too long for the server to calculate this, this will cause lag.

    But that is also not the only source of lag. It can also be the connection. Maybe a few servers take too long to respond, or don't respond at all in the alloted time, and an alternate route must be taken. Possibly something that was already send must be send again because the client didn't recieve the information.



    Sure, maybe can go all back to our Tier 1 Mirandas and its 3 BO abilities, without any traits or whatever and turn lag-free. But players like their toys, if there isn't a treadmill to tread on, another carot to snatch in the future, they leave to do other stuff, and people that don't play STO tend to not spend money on it, and if there aren't many people playing, people tend to leave MMOs behind, too - and so eventually there would be no game.

    ​​
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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