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Does Cryptic Have Something Against Round Saucers?

No, seriously. This is a legitimate question. They just unveiled the T6 Excelsior and it looks like a stripped down and wimpy Presidio class. Aside from the T6 Galaxy, EVERY T6 Fed ship that has been released thus far has an arrowhead/teardrop/egg-shaped saucer section.

What happened to the round saucer design that is classic to Star Trek? I understand that these ships are supposed to be upgrades to the originals, but when I first learned that they were making a T6 Excelsior I was thinking of it looking practically the same, only sleeker/more refined, kind of like the difference between the Galaxy/Gal-X and the Venture/Venture-X (still one of my favorite Cryptic revamps).

Am I the only one who would like to see more of the traditional round saucer on future Fed ships? *le sigh*
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Comments

  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    They think round saucers look old style, simple as that.

    On the bright side, one can grab the old saucer off the old ship. But you might not considered that reasonable for an 'upgrade'.

    Myself I'm greatly disappointed in their release of what can only be described as the poor cousin of the Presidio, it's like someone took that rather nice ship (stats wise anyway) and whacked stuff off it and called it the new Excelsior. The new Excelsior doesn't have a role outside of being a pale shadow.

    Greatly disappointed indeed. It may be time to take a break from this game until its under new management.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    In canon, a lot of the newer ships from the late 24th Century were already going towards the more angular, streamlined designs.
    Sovereign, Norway, Luna, Vesta, Intrepid, Prometheus...
    These ships didn't have the round saucer section. Even the Steamrunner didn't.

    If we look ahead to the 29th Century, the Wells pretty much does away with the Saucer Section entirely.

    As to the design of the T6 Excelsior... she wasn't designed AS an Excelsior. She was designed to be an evolution of the Excelsior model. Naturally she wouldn't look exactly like an Excelsior because she's an entirely new class based on the older one. That would be like saying a modern warship fails because it doesn't look like one from WW2.

    If people are so concerned about its looks... use the classic parts exclusively! It will be able to, just like the Andromeda can use the classic Galaxy parts and the Pathfinder can use Intrepid parts!

    Also... why say its a "poor cousin of the Presidio"? Yes there are some similarities, but it could be like the relationship between the Galaxy and Nebula or Connie and Miranda! What's wrong with that?
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Also... why say its a "poor cousin of the Presidio"? Yes there are some similarities, but it could be like the relationship between the Galaxy and Nebula or Connie and Miranda! What's wrong with that?

    It's a poor cousin because it's BOFF/Console layout is so close to being identical- but reduced or degraded in nearly every respect.
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    Design-wise, you can do a lot more with a chevron than you can do with a saucer.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    She wasn't designed as a Command Cruiser, so it makes sense that she wouldn't have a Commander hybrid slot. That would be like saying the Guardian is a fail ship compared to the Eclipse because the Guardian doesn't have a Commander hybrid. She wasn't designed for it. As for the console/BOff layout... with the number of ships we have, there will naturally be some with similar layouts to others.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    She wasn't designed as a Command Cruiser....

    The point is, she wasn't designed as *anything*. She'll *cost* the same as a TAC Command Cruiser, do no job at all better than a TAC Command Cruiser, and is in fact inferior in every single way that can possibly matter. That would all be fine- *IF* she could do any *different* job- but she can't.


    She serves no in-game purpose except to fleece people who are willing to pay for the Excelsior skin. And as much as I love that skin- I won't do it, I'll keep my T5-U instead. I feel sorry for those who will pay for it.
  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,719 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I said it before. It's 2410. Triangular/Elliptical saucers are the new hip thing. Round saucers are SO 2409.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    The point is, she wasn't designed as *anything*. She'll *cost* the same as a TAC Command Cruiser, do no job at all better than a TAC Command Cruiser, and is in fact inferior in every single way that can possibly matter. That would all be fine- *IF* she could do any *different* job- but she can't.


    She serves no in-game purpose except to fleece people who are willing to pay for the Excelsior skin. And as much as I love that skin- I won't do it, I'll keep my T5-U instead. I feel sorry for those who will pay for it.

    She's more maneuverable and comes with Advanced Transwarp capabilities.

    And to me it sounds like you're willing to write off anything that isn't a Presidio, and that people are being forced to buy every new ship. It is an option. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. You want to keep the T5U that is your choice. Maybe someon would like the T6. That is their choice. But to rip the ship apart before anyone actually can fly one is premature and a little immature IMO.

    I'm sure someone can put a pretty good build on one tomorrow and kick all kinds of pixels.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • eiledoneiledon Member Posts: 595 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    But to rip the ship apart before anyone actually can fly one is premature and a little immature IMO.




    Perhaps he is suffering from premature exasperation?
    ​​
  • banshirbanshir Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    Don't blame Cryptic. Round saucers have disappeared from canon Trek. The last round saucer ship was the Ambassador. Hell, even the interconnecting neck disappeared after the Galaxy class.
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    They just keep trying to design "cool" things but they just end being another out - of - context design that has nothing new. Sadly this is happening since time ago already.

    Who cares if the round saucers dissapeared?? we are talking about people that flies the excelsior BECAUSE OF THE ASTHETICS, and they want a revamp because they want to fly a better ship but with the SAME asthetics, maybe a bit improved, but nothing like a triangled saucer, that obliterates the "excelsior" feeling in the moment you look at it.
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    She's more maneuverable and comes with Advanced Transwarp capabilities.

    As a long time Excelsior player (all I flew until this year), even I stopped using Transwarp to any significant degree after the Sector revamp. The maneuver advantage isn't significant, I didn't suffer any when I switched from my old Excelsior to the TAC Command Cruiser in that respect at all.

    So, two minor insignificant differences that still leaves the ship without a role. Sure people can toss a good build on it and do well. I do that with my K'tinga. I won't stop the presses for that sort of news.
  • alphahydrialphahydri Member Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    She's more maneuverable and comes with Advanced Transwarp capabilities.

    And to me it sounds like you're willing to write off anything that isn't a Presidio, and that people are being forced to buy every new ship. It is an option. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. You want to keep the T5U that is your choice. Maybe someon would like the T6. That is their choice. But to rip the ship apart before anyone actually can fly one is premature and a little immature IMO.

    I'm sure someone can put a pretty good build on one tomorrow and kick all kinds of pixels.

    I took the privilege of emphasizing what you just said. Considering that the captain of the original Excelsior was the Conn Officer on the original Enterprise and the functions/bonuses that the Resolute's console provides, it seems like this ship was made to be the very first Pilot cruiser. That alone would be a big enough selling point for people to buy the ship, and would make the fact that this is a standalone vessel and not part of a pack much more understandable, because it will be unique.

    As it stands, the ship is now yet another Command-oriented Cruiser, and stat-wise, it is little more than a poor man's Presidio with a slightly higher inertia rating. Its disappointing because I don't own any Excelsior variants and I was hoping I would like this ship enough to consider buying it, but I'm afraid I have been disappointed. At least there's a T6 Galaxy-X rumored to be in the works. I'll wait for that one.

  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    The ship's purpose is to let people who like flying the Excelsior continue to do so at max level (and get them to pay more money). For this reason, the original aesthetics are included. I am of the impression that a T5 Excelsior can be perfectly relevant at endgame, but it may assuage the discomfort of people who feel their favorite ship is being rendered obsolete. And for people who like a more modern look that's still somewhat evocative of the Excelsior, they provided one.

    I reserve judgement until it's actually released. And I can take a look at it from all angles--most importantly, above and to the rear because if I'm going to be spending most of my time looking at the ship's backside, I want it to be shapely.

    Which sounds a lot dirtier than it really is. :p
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    alphahydri wrote: »
    Considering that the captain of the original Excelsior was the Conn Officer on the original Enterprise and the functions/bonuses that the Resolute's console provides, it seems like this ship was made to be the very first Pilot cruiser. That alone would be a big enough selling point for people to buy the ship, and would make the fact that this is a standalone vessel and not part of a pack much more understandable, because it will be unique.

    This a hundred times over.

    It may or may not be a very effective build, but it would have given a guy like myself who already owns the TAC Command BC a reason to pay for one instead of being asked to pay for a downgrade.
  • kirimuffinkirimuffin Member Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    banshir wrote: »
    Don't blame Cryptic. Round saucers have disappeared from canon Trek. The last round saucer ship was the Ambassador. Hell, even the interconnecting neck disappeared after the Galaxy class.

    I'm fine with elliptical saucers, personally; I liked how the Galaxy and Sovereign saucers looked. If we could get more of those, I, personally, would be perfectly happy. Instead, it's chevron after chevron after freaking chevron. That sort of shape looks okay on some ships, e.g., the Intrepid or the Presidio, where it sort of looks like the primary hull is growing/extending out of the secondary one. That's a look that works. But on ships like the Resolute or Avenger, where there is something of a neck connecting primary and secondary hulls, it just looks awkward -- to me, and apparently to others as well.

    And I think that, when people are saying they want round saucers, they don't necessarily mean perfectly round like a circle. The Guardian's saucer isn't round by any stretch of the imagination, yet it looks sufficiently "saucer-like" (for lack of a better term) not to twig my "hey, this doesn't look very Starfleet" sense.

    Then again, when I first saw the Voyager and the Defiant on the shows, my first reaction to both ships was, "hey, this doesn't look very Starfleet". So maybe it's just a matter of getting used to the new design language. I mean, the Avenger's look certainly has grown on me (a lot!) since I first saw it.

    With that said, I still want more saucers and fewer chevrons. That's just my aesthetic preference.
  • banshirbanshir Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    They just keep trying to design "cool" things but they just end being another out - of - context design that has nothing new. Sadly this is happening since time ago already.

    Who cares if the round saucers dissapeared?? we are talking about people that flies the excelsior BECAUSE OF THE ASTHETICS, and they want a revamp because they want to fly a better ship but with the SAME asthetics, maybe a bit improved, but nothing like a triangled saucer, that obliterates the "excelsior" feeling in the moment you look at it.

    Then make a kitbash with the old saucer. Most people are buying this for the canon look, not the Cryptic look.
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    If we look ahead to the 29th Century, the Wells pretty much does away with the Saucer Section entirely.

    Although the Enterprise-J actually had a very round saucer.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    Well... true, but I think everyone hates the look of the Enterprise-J, even though we saw very little of her. She seemed to be almost entirely saucer section.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
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  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    -Edited because I probably shouldn't make that pun in general discussion-
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  • edited July 2015
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    I don’t think they have anything in particular against round saucers. They just seem to have something against making tier 6 ships actually look good.

    And that would be their business practices most likely. ;)
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Of the most modern ships in ST (the ones in my sig) only one has a circular saucer (the Akira), the Sovereign, Yeager, and Intrepid have oval saucers, the Prometheus, Nova, and Rhode Island have pointy saucers, the Steamrunner and Sabre have odd circles (sort of), the Norway looks like an iron, and the Defiant doesn't have one. ​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
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  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Honestly it makes sense that older circular saucer sections would be phased out, even just by looking at how cars change over time as newer designer an customers come into play an older designers leave. Though i would imagine circular saucers would remain even in a smaller number as each saucer design has pros an cons to each of their design. I mean when you look at it the designs of the ships for most of the races are more based on looks an what appeals to that race in many ways as a borg-like design has some fo the best pros with very few cons to it compared to the other race's designs. Mind you that is not the only reason for it, but i am sure it is one of the reasons, even just as fans the devs might have prefered the later designs or never liked the designs an working on making something tha they feel newer fans would like.
  • edited July 2015
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  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Going for cool over elegant and functional is the biggest problem with the design philosophy. Every nacelle has to look like a different hotrod element with more and more glowy bits. The main hull gets more and more edges and block edges (thankfully not with this ship, the main hull is about the only thing that reminds me of the excelsior), and the arrow head saucers with all the greeblies which are put onto it without any functional purpose.

    The ship designers are really, really good when they have to go with the plain and simple flowing forms of the original iconic ships. They have to put all the effort into the skin and correct geometry.
    The new Galaxy class, the new Intrepid, the Ambassador and even the old Excelsior all are very good examples and I am sure, if the upcoming T6 Defiant gets her facelift it will look equally brilliant.

    The original designs and variations all suffer from a toy-ish appearance because they rely on the glowy bits and stuck on pieces for detail which reduces the perceived size, scale and realism.

    The command cruisers have their design problems, but work for the most part, because they worked with more flowing and simple lines like the original Excelsior.
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  • k20vteck20vtec Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    Saucer is old now, pointy is new saucer-shape. I remember someone have a fan-TRIBBLE about pointier saucer can focus firepower forward better, since all your Torpedos are forward-pointed and you dont turn your back on your enemy.
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  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    Except that the Excelsiors fire their torpedos from the neck and rear end of the engineering section.
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
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