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An idea that could've saved the lack of immersion for the Iconian war

Similarly to how Kerrat is split into zones based on level, do that for sector space, ESD, Qo'nos, Etc. At whatever level (51-2 I think it is) that you begin the Iconian War you are now placed in these zones. In sector space there would be cracked planets, Iconian/herald Red Alerts. In ESD and social hubs there would be "battle scaring" on the hulls of space stations and the like, perhaps even an occasional lone Herald ship could enter the zone.

The zones with war and the ones without war would be split by level so the players who have not began the Iconian war would not experience it.

But no, we just get ques
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Comments

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    That's a lot of work... for almost no payoff. I do like the idea of adding roving Herald mobs to deep space though.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • cecil08cecil08 Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    Yeah I was just thinking this. The blog entry for Broken Circle makes it seem like we're losing the war.

    If you look around in game, I'd say we're kicking their butts. The Iconian queues are not all that difficult and there is NO indication of anything going on other than that.

    I wish they would take some sectors... say the Iconia sector and the Gasko sector. Say these sectors have been taken over by the Iconians. If level 60 players venture in, they will be attacked.

    They just need to do SOMETHING. This war feels even less like a war than the Klingon one did.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,130 Arc User
    I like the general idea but making it level based would be alt unfriendly. At least for me but maybe there's more out there. I have a couple alts (12) and do often do nothing but doff around thanks to lack of time (RL can be a TRIBBLE). So 10 of my 12 toons are level 60, the other two (Delta) are just a bit short, but half of them hasn't even landed on Nimbus yet. So the key argument shouldn't be level but story advancement.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • paxfederaticapaxfederatica Member Posts: 1,496 Arc User
    cecil08 wrote: »
    Yeah I was just thinking this. The blog entry for Broken Circle makes it seem like we're losing the war.

    If you look around in game, I'd say we're kicking their butts. The Iconian queues are not all that difficult and there is NO indication of anything going on other than that.

    I wish they would take some sectors... say the Iconia sector and the Gasko sector. Say these sectors have been taken over by the Iconians. If level 60 players venture in, they will be attacked.

    They just need to do SOMETHING. This war feels even less like a war than the Klingon one did.

    Not to mention that the Lohlunat festival has been going on as usual. They really should begin "Broken Circle" with a major Iconian attack on Risa as the festival ends. That would be an epic way to set the tone for the rest of the mission.​​
  • tolmariustolmarius Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    cecil08 wrote: »
    Not to mention that the Lohlunat festival has been going on as usual. They really should begin "Broken Circle" with a major Iconian attack on Risa as the festival ends. That would be an epic way to set the tone for the rest of the mission.​​

    Maybe allow you to use floaters as jump pack, flying all over and raining death from above!! :D
    3T6cHqb.png
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    You're a little late to the party, OP; we've been telling them all this for months now. It's even got an entry on STO's TV Tropes page, under the heading "They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot".
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,535 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    personally I prefer the way it is, I don't want this forced immersion, the game has always been modular, you want to do some borg missions you do them, you want to do some fed/kdf conflict missions you can play them and if you want to battle the voth you enter the dyson sphere.
    you can do all of these things without worrying that something else is going to be forced down your throat and I don't see why the iconian war should be any different.
    I am happy to play the iconian content when I want to play it not just because the game dictates that I have to play it and I certainly don't want it effecting safe social zones like ESD or events like risa.

    I do agree that there has been very little content for this so we could do with a few more mission but I don't want to see iconian content overwhelming the game.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    Yeah, that last blog entry was an absolute joke. We have totally kicked the iconians backsides at every possible turn and now we get a blog saying we're losing? Seriously?

    This has, without a doubt, been the worst story line I have seen in STO. There was absolutely no immersion of any kind, no sense of any type of war, no feeling of anything being different in any way. Then we just get this blog saying we have been losing this entire time.. really sad.

    I don't know what they're talking about, but I haven't had an Iconian come close to even scratching the paint on my hull. They're weak and silly.​​
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    Have to say, I agree. There is the story of the Iconians and the war with them and there is the game. Those two seems to me totally not connected to each other. As it is something from another game.

    This is not a bad thing, it means you can go your own way; play Sto as you always did. Personally I am not impressed with the Iconians. Anything, anybody that got involved with folks as Hakeev and Sela, well, I think, I can beat that with keeping one hand in my pocket. Then, no matter how long they have been arround, how advanced they are, godlike, in the 24th century we are really no longer impressed with stuff like that.

    So those wartime posters, that propaganda stuff, seems completely out of place. Just get to their home world and nuke'm out of existence. They shouldn't have taken the path of a classic war like WWII, but instead something of the cold war. Ane enemy that never can be catched, yet is terrifying.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    You're a little late to the party, OP; we've been telling them all this for months now. It's even got an entry on STO's TV Tropes page, under the heading "They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot".

    Now it all makes sense to me.

    Delta Rising is the Voyager expansion. To be true to VOY, you need to waste a perfectly good plot, otherwise you aren't event trying!


    Gamma Radiating will be awesome.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    The Undine invasion felt like a bigger threat. Spies being discovered and exposed every so often in other storylines, then the big push that destroyed ESD and nearly Qo'nos. And of course the space BZ with an actual war going on.

    The end to that war was a little anti-climatic sure, but Mindscape is at least one of the best missions from DR and it's somewhat believable - instead of just taking on the entire Undine fleet you convince mother brain that war is needless.

    Iconians are making more of a mess but it doesn't feel like a threat. And even more irritating to me it looks like whatever was going on with the Tholians on New Romulus has been shoved to the side and forgotten like The Borg.​​
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Having Herald red alerts in sector space would be nice. Having any new alerts in sector space would be nice.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    You're a little late to the party, OP; we've been telling them all this for months now. It's even got an entry on STO's TV Tropes page, under the heading "They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot".

    Now it all makes sense to me.

    Delta Rising is the Voyager expansion. To be true to VOY, you need to waste a perfectly good plot, otherwise you aren't event trying!


    Gamma Radiating will be awesome.

    I think it was Gulberat who first said it: Cryptic seems to have taken the vote for "more VOY-related content" as a validation of all of VOY's absolute worst qualities.
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    Yeah, what they forgot was a major war zone, space and ground.
    They could have made a hub inside the dayson sphere with a few gates under our control, where we can respond fast to Iconian incursions at the three homeworld's doorstep.
    The Klingon Homeworld is under siege already in the queues.
    We could have opened another ground warzone on New Romulus with defending the gateway.
    And a good opportunity to use the Utopia Planetia shipyards being attacked threatening our ability to produce new ships to keep zp with the Iconian onslaught.
    I think those are the most major battlefiels with the biggest pressure points for the enemy to push and actually put us on the defensive.
    We shouldn't have an offensive campaign at all. Every victory should come at a major cost forcing us to retreat a step further.
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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    Less tale-writing and more programming would be most helpful I guess. I know the one who writes are likely not a dev, but manpower is spent better if there would be an actual war in the game and not in the head of some writer.
    Herald red alerts, warzones (space and ground). We had way more war with the Undine and the Voth than with the heralds at this point.

    And we all know, when someone is under attack, you only warp there with warp six. Since you have all the time of the universe.
  • quepanquepan Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    i have to agree with the OP partly , STO has the Sector space RED Alert system which could be used to more effectively to show the kind of immersion the OP is talking about , i would rather have a equal combination of PVE queue content and this random Red alert content , i would rather go actively hunting for action then having to sit in a queue day in and day out . this is a underused system in my book ,the devs should look into making it a more robust system with similar types of rewards that the Queues offer
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    Yeah, that last blog entry was an absolute joke. We have totally kicked the iconians backsides at every possible turn and now we get a blog saying we're losing? Seriously?

    This has, without a doubt, been the worst story line I have seen in STO. There was absolutely no immersion of any kind, no sense of any type of war, no feeling of anything being different in any way. Then we just get this blog saying we have been losing this entire time.. really sad.​​

    Well... we have only seen events of the war through the eyes of our characters alone. Only the battles our characters have taken part in, and so far the story missions we have were defeats or pyrric victories. Although the last one we had did give us a new ally.

    I do agree that we need a bit more to show what's going on, but I think they're considering everyone is NOT at the same level as us lv 60 players who've played all the missions to date. The Borg Alerts make sense because the Borg could appear anywhere anytime and are known to the player from day 1. The Tholian Alert in Tau Dewa makes sense because the Tholians have an interest in the region. Herald Alerts don't really make sense because they don't appear at all until "a year" or so after the player character starts out.

    A battlezone might have been a better idea, and an alternative to PvE queues.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • tolmariustolmarius Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    So....the Iconian war. It seems that the tales of the war series are the only things that are supposed to make us feel like we AREN'T slaughtering the Heralds. Me....all I'm thinking of is the Kobayashi Maru scene from RebootTrek.

    Kirk (Players): Sits there grinning and eating an apple.
    Asian Guy in Control Room (Cryptic): "Why isn't he taking this war seriously?"
    3T6cHqb.png
  • khenaliankhenalian Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    This war was a complete joke. A massive end battle will not save it now.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    You're assuming that the war is gonna end in the next FE.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    Honestly i would not mind just maybe a ground battleground on Iconia that might have missions to recover ancient hidden Iconian relics that are activating on the world as the Iconian fleet heads for the world to retake it. Than when they arrive any un-taken relics fully activicate with the Heralds coming down to retake what was lost. Could even have a upperr/surface field, than a lower field or labrynth like zone with more quests an info to find, finnally in the depths maybe a hidden or sealed Iconian that might act as a zone boss if the Heralds find him/her. THough i would love to see more exploration, researching, and other such missions an objectives in the zone alongside the combat.

    For the red alert i would love to see it in several zone but most of all in the Delta quadrent, mostly since it has no red alert. Make it maybe that you come into a three way fight betwen the Voth an Vaadwaur, and a random third faction, of which two of them you can form a allience with to fight the Vaadwaur. Once the Vaadwaur or/and voth fleets have been taken out than the solanae or elechi fleets enter the fray launching a pincer attack, and then at the end a Herald fleet portals in an takes out what is left of the fleets leaving just you to fight them, unless you take the time to repair the other allied ships to fight with you (maybe this is doable thru the entire red alert.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,130 Arc User
    First: I do agree that there is no feel of urgency as of now. But I agree with that for the reasons that have been posted already. But then I get the feeling that some of the people complaining actually have a different understanding of the situation than I have. Again, as has been stated, we have in the missions way more loss than win. Lost a lot of the allied fleet. Failed to kick one base down. Even the regularily won STF is mostly about taking back lost ground. So at best we have a standoff. I wonder where this feeling, we're kicking the Iconians left and right comes from. Possibly one of the reasons is the not really suited approach of featured episodes every now and then - we do our stuff but then get distracted. Playing the whole (as of now to be released) storyline in a row would probably increase the sense of urgency for those players involved.

    And please do not make Iconian red alerts. I agree that this would not make sense for players less advanced in the storyline at all, and maybe also not to those who advanced too far, we don't know yet.

    If you want to create some desperation yourself, you can do so. Do NOT go to ESD/First City/New Rom. Do NOT change ships. Do NOT use the exchange to buy stuff (selling crafted items should be okay, after all there's still a game under the story). All not possible because of drained resources/immediate attacks. Survive with what you have and maybe go to some backwater world like Nimbus to sell off stuff.

    And if you don't want to do that, be happy that the story does not force this on us. And please, anybody complaining about Risa: entertainment in the broader sense is one of the last things to be cancelled during a war. People will try to party if there is any possibility to do so. Gives the mind some food apart from worrying.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    Not sure i think if you put a Iconian/Herald or Servator type red alert might be worth it, and make it feel more like we are at war though. That the Iconians an their allies are poping into our space/quadrent an attacking weakening our allies an fleet. Though in such a case maybe have these types of Red alerts being level/episode locked so if you wanted access to do them you had to be of the correct level (and/or) progression in the story arc for them to pop up for you to enter into. Same with the Iconian battleground this would keep the immersion, as well as have something that might actually show a war going on in the galaxy.
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    xyquarze wrote: »
    First: I do agree that there is no feel of urgency as of now. But I agree with that for the reasons that have been posted already. But then I get the feeling that some of the people complaining actually have a different understanding of the situation than I have. Again, as has been stated, we have in the missions way more loss than win. Lost a lot of the allied fleet. Failed to kick one base down. Even the regularily won STF is mostly about taking back lost ground. So at best we have a standoff. I wonder where this feeling, we're kicking the Iconians left and right comes from. Possibly one of the reasons is the not really suited approach of featured episodes every now and then - we do our stuff but then get distracted. Playing the whole (as of now to be released) storyline in a row would probably increase the sense of urgency for those players involved.

    One of the reasons players feel that we are "kicking the Iconians left and right" is because many players don't get the idea of Story and Gameplay Segregation. Yes, we're going into STFs and attacking the Herald Sphere or taking back Qo'nos or whatnot, but players forget that this just one time, not multiple. Also, yes, we got superior tech in the form of Mk XIV gear and such, but the story says otherwise.
    xyquarze wrote: »
    And please do not make Iconian red alerts. I agree that this would not make sense for players less advanced in the storyline at all, and maybe also not to those who advanced too far, we don't know yet.

    If you want to create some desperation yourself, you can do so. Do NOT go to ESD/First City/New Rom. Do NOT change ships. Do NOT use the exchange to buy stuff (selling crafted items should be okay, after all there's still a game under the story). All not possible because of drained resources/immediate attacks. Survive with what you have and maybe go to some backwater world like Nimbus to sell off stuff.

    And if you don't want to do that, be happy that the story does not force this on us. And please, anybody complaining about Risa: entertainment in the broader sense is one of the last things to be cancelled during a war. People will try to party if there is any possibility to do so. Gives the mind some food apart from worrying.

    I still feel that a lot of people think that this should be some sort of near-apocalyptic war for survival that threatens to destroy modern civilization as we know it a la most modern day games. The thing is, this is Star Trek. Not even the Dominion War nor the events of Star Trek: Destiny forced this sort of thing on its setting. Granted, Destiny had a lot more bigger stakes and did blow up planets. However, that's because it's the Novelverse. More dedicated readers would be fine with that. STO is meant to be for people who just watched the TV series and be much more accessible than the novels. We really can't go that far and I don't think CBS wants us to.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    xyquarze wrote: »
    First: I do agree that there is no feel of urgency as of now. But I agree with that for the reasons that have been posted already. But then I get the feeling that some of the people complaining actually have a different understanding of the situation than I have. Again, as has been stated, we have in the missions way more loss than win. Lost a lot of the allied fleet. Failed to kick one base down. Even the regularily won STF is mostly about taking back lost ground. So at best we have a standoff. I wonder where this feeling, we're kicking the Iconians left and right comes from. Possibly one of the reasons is the not really suited approach of featured episodes every now and then - we do our stuff but then get distracted. Playing the whole (as of now to be released) storyline in a row would probably increase the sense of urgency for those players involved.

    And please do not make Iconian red alerts. I agree that this would not make sense for players less advanced in the storyline at all, and maybe also not to those who advanced too far, we don't know yet.
    I am not saying it would be completely trivial, but: Star Trek Online has level and mission requirements for missions. Interacts with planets/star system appear only when you have a mission on that planet.

    I am sure Cryptic could figure out a way to show Herald Red Alerts only to players of sufficient level / sufficient story advancement.
    ​​
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Yeah, that last blog entry was an absolute joke. We have totally kicked the iconians backsides at every possible turn and now we get a blog saying we're losing? Seriously?

    This has, without a doubt, been the worst story line I have seen in STO. There was absolutely no immersion of any kind, no sense of any type of war, no feeling of anything being different in any way. Then we just get this blog saying we have been losing this entire time.. really sad.

    Well... we have only seen events of the war through the eyes of our characters alone. Only the battles our characters have taken part in, and so far the story missions we have were defeats or pyrric victories. Although the last one we had did give us a new ally.

    I do agree that we need a bit more to show what's going on, but I think they're considering everyone is NOT at the same level as us lv 60 players who've played all the missions to date. The Borg Alerts make sense because the Borg could appear anywhere anytime and are known to the player from day 1. The Tholian Alert in Tau Dewa makes sense because the Tholians have an interest in the region. Herald Alerts don't really make sense because they don't appear at all until "a year" or so after the player character starts out.

    A battlezone might have been a better idea, and an alternative to PvE queues.

    I get what you're saying, but as a player.. the only perspective I really care about or have any access to is my own. In all the story episodes, we have done fairly well against the Iconian 'threat.' Outside of the one mission where it just forces you to retreat even if you're mopping the floor with them, there haven't been any big defeats. I certainly don't count the death of the insignificant Khaless to be a defeat.. I haven't felt any real sense of pressure or any real threat from the Iconians at all.

    Maybe a battle zone would have been better, or as many have suggested.. Iconian red alerts. The big problems are that outside of the story missions, there is absolutely no hint or trace of Iconian presence at all. Heck, during this supposed 'War' where we're apparently getting beaten from pillar to post, we're lounging around Risa, riding hover boards and building sand castles. Running the Summer Event along side this completely non existent war was a total immersion breaker.

    Honestly, when I read that blog post and it started out saying 'the war hasn't been going well,' I was really surprised. I had to read it again, because I was under the impression that the Iconians had failed to be any real threat at all. I certainly didn't feel like there was ever any real danger of losing this skirmish that they keep calling a war. ​​
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • bluedarkybluedarky Member Posts: 548 Arc User
    To be honest, the biggest problem with peoples perception of the Iconian war is simply the fact that we see the war one week in three/four then have the rest of the time with no little to no perception of the war.

    I know that me and my friend 'experienced' the war more when we were moving straight from one episode to another over the last couple of weeks until we reached the end of Time in a Bottle and had a bad disconnect.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I would not mind seeing maybe even story/level locked small scale world events that use some of the smaller or less used worlds as having been retaken by the Inconians, such as maybe being worlds/systems that had in the past been part of their empire's holdings. These could be maybe like a sector wide event in which a alert comes out of Herald/servator incursions on several worlds, and the players needing to investigate which systems/worlds are being held an then liberate these worlds thru either space or ground combat. these could be mini-battlegrounds in how they work allowing you to travel between the worlds not being forced to camp a single system. You could even make it that for plaer that do not meet the story or level progression to fight the heralds they see or fight with the servator races that are seeking or retaking the worlds for unknown reasons.

  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    "We're loosing this wa..."

    "Sorry, no time, the cooldown's up and I'm off to kill more Heralds by the dozen."

    ...

    "Did he say something about loosing?"

    "Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of me soloing 3 battleships at once". ​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
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  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    You're assuming that the war is gonna end in the next FE.

    I hope not, it would be the very definition of anticlimactic.

    To give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt perhaps they are attempting to set the stage for an epic story. It begins with our forces (allegedly) losing badly. There is the desperate struggle for survival, the break that turns the tide of the war and the final all out confrontation - which by then could be a new BZ or just something with the scope of an actual war. The slow release of single FE's work against them in this case.

    Other problems include the underlying fact that a player will not lose. We never lose. How can anything be a threat to the invincible demigod Captain who can either wipe the floor with you in seconds, or simply keep coming again and again to wear you down?

    Then the problem that this war isn't even a thing for a great deal of newer players. Keeping the war out of the home quadrants would have been the better route - then you could have Herald or Elachi red alerts or even system patrols showing in more detail the front lines of this war. Systems being lost, supply routes being disrupted, allies needing urgent help etc.​​
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