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Starfleet Broken his own Rules ; time line.

xayssxayss Member Posts: 391 Arc User
from i understand the federation has rulles about time line. so it sfederation build the krenim time ship for change time line for wipe out the iconians before they become a big enemy ,the fereration is broken his own rulles about change time line. i dont know is federation is makin his rulles to a side about this enemy for build the ship. but is clearlys she is violate his rulles about time line.
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Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    While it is true that the Federation has a Temporal Prime Directive... desperate times call for desperate measures I guess. And something tells me... its not even gonna be that easy anyways.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,708 Arc User
    It's an alliance matter, not simply a federation (Starfleet is the navy/military from the Federation) matter.
    Besides, who's to say it'll be a complete wipe of the iconians? Usually one would try keep keep the impact of an erasure small. Wiping out an ancient race which has potentially influenced most of known space sounds like an awful idea. ​​
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • svindal777svindal777 Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    Won't be the 1st time the federation has broken its rules.
    Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    the UFP prime directive goes out the window anytime earth is threatened... but if anyone ELSE wants to time travel to save THEIR homeworld... oh hell no
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    I agree with the OP and I can say one thing with certainty.

    If the alliance uses this time ship Deus Ex Machina Genocide TRIBBLE, and the feds go along with it?
    I will lose every last shred of faith in the future of story content in STO.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • thomaselkinsthomaselkins Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    I agree with the OP and I can say one thing with certainty.

    If the alliance uses this time ship Deus Ex Machina Genocide TRIBBLE, and the feds go along with it?
    I will lose every last shred of faith in the future of story content in STO.

    I don't think it's that easy. Erasing the Iconians would completely change the shape of the Galaxy forever. An unknown number of civilizations would no longer be enslaved by the Iconians and their existence over 200,000 years could prevent other civilizations from coming to power.

    Imagine if the Klingon and Romulan Empires never came into power because the Dewans weren't all killed and they colonized the space around them. Would the Federation ever be formed if a Dewan Empire existed in the place of the Klingons and Romulans? What if the Dewans went to war with the Hur'q? How would that war change the balance of power in the Beta Quadrant before the other races advance enough to join the intergalactic community? Even if we ignore the 200,000+ years of altered history and assume the Galaxy would end up being pretty much the same, modern events would still be different.


    What if Romulus wasn't destroyed? Sounds good saving billions of lives right? Not if you consider the fact that Romulans would still be ruled in fear of the Tal Shiar who remains a major adversary of the Federation and Klingon Empire. So you save billions of lives but the peaceful Romulan Republic never exists. Obisek and his Reman people are still slaves of the Empire and their fight for freedom would be twice as difficult because they would be fighting a unified empire, instead of the scattered remnants that gave birth to the Republic.


    Deus ex machina? No, I would say it's more like a weapon of mass destruction that could do more harm than good.
  • greenpushergreenpusher Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Who says you have to go back in time to erase them?
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    xayss wrote: »
    from i understand the federation has rulles about time line.

    Are going off of Canon or the expanded universe?
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
    95bced8038c91ec6f880d510e6fd302f366a776c4c5761e5f7931d491667a45e.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    cidjack wrote: »
    xayss wrote: »
    from i understand the federation has rulles about time line.

    Are going off of Canon or the expanded universe?

    Temporal Prime Directive. Any questions?

    ETA: Also, DS9: "Past Tense" brings up Federation temporal displacement policy.
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    Canon it is, makes the answer a lot simpler. Star Trek Online does not fit within the Canon part of Star Trek. Cryptic can do what ever they want for the enjoyment of the players!!

    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    cidjack wrote: »
    Canon it is, makes the answer a lot simpler. Star Trek Online does not fit within the Canon part of Star Trek. Cryptic can do what ever they want for the enjoyment of the players!!

    Actually, the answer's even simpler than that: inconsistent writing. Clearly Cryptic took the forum vote for VOY as a validation of its absolute worst aspects.

    SEE WHAT YOU JACKASSES WHO VOTED FOR VOYAGER IN THE POLL DID TO US?
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I guess that Starfleet forgot all about the Guardian of Forever.
    The Guardian of Forever was a construct of an unknown, ancient alien race that functioned as a time portal, a gateway to the time vortex that allowed access to other times and dimensions. It was located on an ancient planet where the focus of all timelines throughout at least the Milky Way Galaxy converged. It was apparently sentient, responding to external stimulus such as questions and actions, and could even somehow control the flow of time. It generated immense ripples in time that manifested themselves as spatial disturbances in the region around the planet where it was located.
    I guess building WMD's is far more fun though
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    cidjack wrote: »
    Canon it is, makes the answer a lot simpler. Star Trek Online does not fit within the Canon part of Star Trek. Cryptic can do what ever they want for the enjoyment of the players!!

    Actually, the answer's even simpler than that: inconsistent writing. Clearly Cryptic took the forum vote for VOY as a validation of its absolute worst aspects.

    SEE WHAT YOU JACKASSES WHO VOTED FOR VOYAGER IN THE POLL DID TO US?

    Your welcome!!!
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
    95bced8038c91ec6f880d510e6fd302f366a776c4c5761e5f7931d491667a45e.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    I agree with the OP and I can say one thing with certainty.

    If the alliance uses this time ship Deus Ex Machina Genocide TRIBBLE, and the feds go along with it?
    I will lose every last shred of faith in the future of story content in STO.

    I don't think it's that easy. Erasing the Iconians would completely change the shape of the Galaxy forever. An unknown number of civilizations would no longer be enslaved by the Iconians and their existence over 200,000 years could prevent other civilizations from coming to power.

    Imagine if the Klingon and Romulan Empires never came into power because the Dewans weren't all killed and they colonized the space around them. Would the Federation ever be formed if a Dewan Empire existed in the place of the Klingons and Romulans? What if the Dewans went to war with the Hur'q? How would that war change the balance of power in the Beta Quadrant before the other races advance enough to join the intergalactic community? Even if we ignore the 200,000+ years of altered history and assume the Galaxy would end up being pretty much the same, modern events would still be different.


    What if Romulus wasn't destroyed? Sounds good saving billions of lives right? Not if you consider the fact that Romulans would still be ruled in fear of the Tal Shiar who remains a major adversary of the Federation and Klingon Empire. So you save billions of lives but the peaceful Romulan Republic never exists. Obisek and his Reman people are still slaves of the Empire and their fight for freedom would be twice as difficult because they would be fighting a unified empire, instead of the scattered remnants that gave birth to the Republic.


    Deus ex machina? No, I would say it's more like a weapon of mass destruction that could do more harm than good.

    But this is my point. You just described my view on the device.

    However, the way things are going I won't be surprised if cryptic decides "oh lets cause TIME GENOCIDE, forget the myriad reasons the federation would never, I mean NEVER use such a thing knowing what it does.

    the ONLY decent explanation for the feds using this is being tricked into believing it does something other than it really does.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • freakiumfreakium Member Posts: 444 Arc User
    I have a feeling the alliance goes through with it anyway, completely screws up history, and a 29th century ship of whatever faction comes in to chastise you before shooting you back to your timeline from before the alliance built the temporal ship with their rainbow beam of chroniton awesomeness.
    m12Pkoj.png
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    freakium wrote: »
    I have a feeling the alliance goes through with it anyway, completely screws up history, and a 29th century ship of whatever faction comes in to chastise you before shooting you back to your timeline from before the alliance built the temporal ship with their rainbow beam of chroniton awesomeness.

    nyancat torpedo!

    actually I think they're gonna hammer us with accidentally restoring romulus, then beat us about the head and shoulders with how horrible things would be if this happened because skeever will be in control of everything and how their terrible caricatures of evilness and villainy would prosper unopposed, because you know no one could think of any number of ways the empire could be saved and still loose Hakeev and his lemming brigade /sarcasm. Then we'll race to fix things with nog(or some other trek voice) and they'll reward us with singularity cores for a job well done in restoring things to their current level of horrid writing.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    I agree with the OP and I can say one thing with certainty.

    If the alliance uses this time ship Deus Ex Machina Genocide TRIBBLE, and the feds go along with it?
    I will lose every last shred of faith in the future of story content in STO.

    I don't think it's that easy. Erasing the Iconians would completely change the shape of the Galaxy forever. An unknown number of civilizations would no longer be enslaved by the Iconians and their existence over 200,000 years could prevent other civilizations from coming to power.

    Imagine if the Klingon and Romulan Empires never came into power because the Dewans weren't all killed and they colonized the space around them. Would the Federation ever be formed if a Dewan Empire existed in the place of the Klingons and Romulans? What if the Dewans went to war with the Hur'q? How would that war change the balance of power in the Beta Quadrant before the other races advance enough to join the intergalactic community? Even if we ignore the 200,000+ years of altered history and assume the Galaxy would end up being pretty much the same, modern events would still be different.


    What if Romulus wasn't destroyed? Sounds good saving billions of lives right? Not if you consider the fact that Romulans would still be ruled in fear of the Tal Shiar who remains a major adversary of the Federation and Klingon Empire. So you save billions of lives but the peaceful Romulan Republic never exists. Obisek and his Reman people are still slaves of the Empire and their fight for freedom would be twice as difficult because they would be fighting a unified empire, instead of the scattered remnants that gave birth to the Republic.


    Deus ex machina? No, I would say it's more like a weapon of mass destruction that could do more harm than good.
    That or the galaxy would be the stage for a battle between the Tkon and Dewans. :p Humans, Klingons and Vulcans would probably still exist, but they might be servants of one of those two powers.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    the federation has always been a representation of the USA, therefor rules dont apply it either.​​
  • greenpushergreenpusher Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Why do you all think a timeship has to go to the past to deal with this?

    Time has a past, present and future. Which 1 would be the least damaging to use this weapon on?
  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,454 Arc User
    Why do you all think a timeship has to go to the past to deal with this?

    Time has a past, present and future. Which 1 would be the least damaging to use this weapon on?

    Well, the way the weapon works is that it erases the target from all time, so you are right, you don't need to time travel, but you are changing time.
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
  • rimmarierimmarie Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    Well I recall them saying they did not have all of Annorax's research, so they could not complete his work.
    Chances are, the Weapon Ship we are going to be able to create (assuming we finish it at all) will not have the same abilities as the one seen in VOY: Year of Hell.
  • greenpushergreenpusher Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    bergins wrote: »
    Why do you all think a timeship has to go to the past to deal with this?

    Time has a past, present and future. Which 1 would be the least damaging to use this weapon on?

    Well, the way the weapon works is that it erases the target from all time, so you are right, you don't need to time travel, but you are changing time.

    I never said to erase them. In 1 FE we learn the Iconians can't time travel and in another FE, the temporal equitement can manipulate time without erasing stuff from the timeline. Think about that solution.

  • tolmariustolmarius Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    the federation has always been a representation of the USA, therefor rules dont apply it either.​​

    The Federation is more like the European Union. All about a bunch of diverse cultures side by side, rather than multiple cultures melted up into one.
    3T6cHqb.png
  • ryugasiriusryugasirius Member Posts: 283 Arc User
    I don't think it's that easy. Erasing the Iconians would completely change the shape of the Galaxy forever. An unknown number of civilizations would no longer be enslaved by the Iconians and their existence over 200,000 years could prevent other civilizations from coming to power. 

    Except we have no need to erase "the Iconians". They have been already "erased" for us after they built everything and set everything into motion. There are only 12 Iconians left as far as we know. They are our main target. Erasing them might have some unfortunate effects on very recent history (Hobus supernova wouldn't happen etc, stuff that happened because of recent Iconian envolvement), but it won't effect the Dewans fall and the rise of other civilizations exactly as it happened.
    ryuga81.png
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    I hate time travel as a plot device. There is just so many ramifications involved I can't take it seriously. I will admit though, that monkeying with the timeline and completely changing all of history would be a good opener to some interesting future content.

    The Imperial Tribble Armada would be a worthy foe.​​
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    coupaholic wrote: »
    The Imperial Tribble Armada would be a worthy foe.​​

    Their ships would look too much like colorful borg spheres.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I don't think it's that easy. Erasing the Iconians would completely change the shape of the Galaxy forever. An unknown number of civilizations would no longer be enslaved by the Iconians and their existence over 200,000 years could prevent other civilizations from coming to power. 

    Except we have no need to erase "the Iconians". They have been already "erased" for us after they built everything and set everything into motion. There are only 12 Iconians left as far as we know. They are our main target. Erasing them might have some unfortunate effects on very recent history (Hobus supernova wouldn't happen etc, stuff that happened because of recent Iconian envolvement), but it won't effect the Dewans fall and the rise of other civilizations exactly as it happened.

    True, but it would still rewrite the entire game's plot. So it's never going to happen. Maybe the timeship will be destroyed by the Iconians before we have a chance to use it. Or it gets used, only to ruin the timeline like what happened to Annorax in canon, and we have to reverse it by erasing the timeship again. Or something entirely different.

    But successfully changing history to erase the Iconian threat (even if it's just those 12 Iconians currently active), is pretty much the least likely outcome.
  • k20vteck20vtec Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    Cant they use timeship some other ways than go back stomp icos when they were throwing rocks at each other, erasing the present Iconians by some temoporal wizardry and chroniton-phase variance or whatnot.
    Oh and alliance with Krenim is a mistake. Too powerful for the fed, klink and rom. They will come back and bite us sooner or later. Starfleet themselves have ways and metheods to do temporal stuff, why have to rely on Krenim.
    Hast thou not gone against sincerity
    Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
    Hast thou not lacked vigor
    Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
    Hast thou not become slothful
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    dabelgrave wrote: »
    Who made up the 'alliance' that beat the Iconians the first time?​​

    It would be cool if the timeship was a time TRAVEL ship and WE DID, but that doesn't look like the way it's going.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
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