test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

DEAR CRYPTIC: FIX THE POWERBOARD RACE!!!!!

Crossing the finish line should mean you get the place come in, not having to de-board and double click in one swift motion. It's absurd that this mini-game is so bugged.

Thank you.

PS. When you hit one of the speed buffs, it should give you a speed buff!!!!

«1

Comments

  • nepsthennepsthen Member Posts: 217 Arc User
    You know you can aim at the flag and it stops you from moving if you hit it. You don't have to deboard. The flags appear in the same spot each time as well. If you think it's a bug, take it to the right forum, and not the general.
    Still alive.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    This comes up every summer and winter event.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    It's not a bug it is by design and despite your not liking it there is a good reason for it.

    Lag causes you to see your character somewhere different than the server sees you. Because of this three or more people could all see themselves win the race but then get different rewards. They would all file tickets and all three would be able to produce screenshots "proving" they should have won. And who knows perhaps then all three might be wrong and some fourth person was actually first.

    The flags are the better solution for any world that lacks infinite bandwidth to all players.
    Post edited by gavinruneblade on
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    Working as intended.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    ccthrawn wrote: »
    Crossing the finish line should mean you get the place come in, not having to de-board and double click in one swift motion. It's absurd that this mini-game is so bugged.

    Thank you.

    PS. When you hit one of the speed buffs, it should give you a speed buff!!!!
    or spam the f key instead of trying to double click
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • tomaswilletomaswille Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    It's not a bug it is by design and despite your not liking it there is a good reason for it.

    Lag causes you to see your character somewhere different than the server sees you. Because of this three or more people could all see themselves win the race but then get different rewards. They would all file tickets and all three would be able to produce screenshots "proving" they should have won. And who knows perhaps then all three might be wrong and some fourth person was actually first.

    The flags are the better solution for any world that lacks infinite bandwidth to all players.


    Well said.
    The flags also gives a good tension because even number 3 can end up being number one.

    I would like 2 things changed tho.

    - Keep the flag at one spot. The battle of the flag is already excited enough, but missing 2nd place or 3th place because someone snatched the flag in front of you, and makes the flag respawn at a different location, giving the advantage to the player behind you, is not called competition. It's luck. And luck should not be rewarded, but effort should be rewarded.

    - Sometimes you miss the flag, sometimes you miss hopping of the board. No problem. But at least reward them with a reward for attending the race like everyone else instead of disqualifying because you shoot of the track AFTER the finish. Just a matter of creating a wider and longer border, after the finish line. So people can return and claim A reward.
    giphy.gif
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    It's not just luck, there is strategy too. If I see I'm in a tight match with a couple people for second place, I might swing over to where the third flag will be. Sure I auto lose second. But I just took third from someone.

    That's not luck, that's strategy. And you don't have to be behind, you can do it when you're close.
  • tomaswilletomaswille Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    It's not just luck, there is strategy too. If I see I'm in a tight match with a couple people for second place, I might swing over to where the third flag will be. Sure I auto lose second. But I just took third from someone.

    That's not luck, that's strategy. And you don't have to be behind, you can do it when you're close.

    It's strategy when you oversee from behind. And when you can plan something, it is strategy. But if you are neck on neck with 1st/2nd place, you might as well give up your 1st place.
    So by trying to be first on neck on neck, you'd better give up, otherwise you end up getting nothing. Think it's not strategy, And not a fair way to reward effort. I do not see strategy in this situation. :)
    ( Also giving up your spot is also not strategy for me, at least far from competitive. And isn't a race to be ment as competitive? )


    But hey, i am not complaining. I got my 1st place, 2nd, and 3th place lots of times. So im happy with that. But i think it will clean up the minigame a bit. Especially the last change i ment.
    giphy.gif
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    tomaswille wrote: »
    It's not just luck, there is strategy too. If I see I'm in a tight match with a couple people for second place, I might swing over to where the third flag will be. Sure I auto lose second. But I just took third from someone.

    That's not luck, that's strategy. And you don't have to be behind, you can do it when you're close.

    It's strategy when you oversee from behind. And when you can plan something, it is strategy. But if you are neck on neck with 1st/2nd place, you might as well give up your 1st place.
    So by trying to be first on neck on neck, you'd better give up, otherwise you end up getting nothing. Think it's not strategy, And not a fair way to reward effort. I do not see strategy in this situation. :)
    You have a choice: keep going for first and possibly get fourth or guarantee second. How you respond is not based on luck, you choose to gamble or you choose to maximize your winnings over time.

    Game theory is full of choices like this. Two of my favorites:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_envelopes_problem
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

    Interestingly all three (the race, the two envelopes, and Monty hall) have the same solution.
  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    Yeah, the flag meta is an interesting endgame lol...
    Tck7dQ2.jpg
    Dahar Master Mary Sue                                               Fleet Admiral Bloody Mary
  • tomaswilletomaswille Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    How you respond is not based on luck, you choose to gamble or.....

    That made me scratch my hat a bit. You choose to gamble. EXACTLY. And gambling is luck, right? Or.. did i missed something now.

    What you say is true however; You gamble, or you plan strategically and offer your ?? place for second best / third best.. And that is exactly my point. A race should not work this way in my opinion. If you are first, or second you should not be denied the spot by "gambling". You should go for it. And if you take the flag, you deserve it. And you don't you have the right to be a follow up. Gambling shouldnt be any option this race. Strategy, yes. But not gambling and/or luck
    giphy.gif
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The gamble is not luck. The gamble is your performance vs theirs. It's timing more than anything. Think about baseball, hitting a high fly is a "gamble": most likely the outfielder will catch it and you're out, but you might score a home run. The ground ball is the safe play. Doesn't mean it's random, but the word we use is still " gamble".

    Random only enters into it if one of you gets a lag spike or something.
    Post edited by gavinruneblade on
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I remember the last year same thing happened with the powerboard race, so many complains but nothing was done, i wonder why. This is one of the reasons i will never participate in the powerboard race, i just cant stand broken events.

    You could also try to change to an instance with less players having more options to pick the flag.
  • This content has been removed.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    tomaswille wrote: »
    How you respond is not based on luck, you choose to gamble or.....

    That made me scratch my hat a bit. You choose to gamble. EXACTLY. And gambling is luck, right? Or.. did i missed something now.

    What you say is true however; You gamble, or you plan strategically and offer your ?? place for second best / third best.. And that is exactly my point. A race should not work this way in my opinion. If you are first, or second you should not be denied the spot by "gambling". You should go for it. And if you take the flag, you deserve it. And you don't you have the right to be a follow up. Gambling shouldnt be any option this race. Strategy, yes. But not gambling and/or luck
    It's not a photo-finish race, it's a capture-the-flag race...

    and we've had them since... I think it was the second winter event.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • nadiezjanadiezja Member Posts: 629 Arc User
    I'd prefer it be a time trial. That would reduce reasons to find empty instances, too.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    nadiezja wrote: »
    I'd prefer it be a time trial. That would reduce reasons to find empty instances, too.
    Hmmm... that sounds like a PvL(player vs Lag) event....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • This content has been removed.
  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    At first I was a bit frustrated about the flag thing but now it's grown on me. I just view it as "fun" that I could be first and TRIBBLE up so bad I end up with just a finish lol

    I would like to see a bit of a buff on the speed boosts though. If someone does all of them, they should have a significant lead over someone that only did half. And someone that did half should have a significant lead over someone that doesn't bother but takes the shortest route. Right now, taking the shortest route is the only way to really run the race and be competitive.
  • lagomorphiclagomorphic Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Yeah, you not liking the way it is designed is fine. Claiming that it's "broken" because it doesn't work the way you want it to just makes you sound like an entitled baby.

    At any rate it's a fun diversion so try not to take it so serious. The scramble for the flags is the best part, it's exciting and dramatic.
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I understand the limits of a asynchronous MMO and why it's not 'cross the finish line'.

    Thus the only thing I want fixed is the race boundaries, out of bounds should be anything on the wrong side of the marker- no more shortcuts.

    Oh, and I want the ability to steal 2nd place as well a win 1st removed.
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    azrael605 wrote: »
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    I remember the last year same thing happened with the powerboard race, so many complains but nothing was done, i wonder why. This is one of the reasons i will never participate in the powerboard race, i just cant stand broken events.

    You could also try to change to an instance with less players having more options to pick the flag.

    It is NOT broken, it is working exactly as it is supposed to. Geeze when are you people gonna learn to read and comprehend what is written. They cannot change it to a "finish line" setup, latency won't let that work, no matter how many people want to complain about it thats just how it is. Clicking a flag is the only workable way for it to be done in this game. If you don't like it fine then don't play it, but knock off the misinformation claiming things are "broken" which are flatly not broken.

    In my opinion , its broken. A designed event that will not work as intended because of lag, bad design and other things, it is a broken event, period. And specially when the devs could do it other way and fix all the bad things about the powerboardrace but they wont. Maybe people is so used to broken things in this game, that they see it as normal even when it isnt lol. Just assuming too much, i guess
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    kittyflofy wrote: »

    In my opinion , its broken. A designed event that will not work as intended because of lag, bad design and other things, it is a broken event, period. And specially when the devs could do it other way and fix all the bad things about the powerboardrace but they wont. Maybe people is so used to broken things in this game, that they see it as normal even when it isnt lol. Just assuming too much, i guess
    It's not "this game" and it absolutely is working as intended. It is built as a capture the flag race, not a cross the line race.

    What you are asking is like complaining a car cannot steer or brake while jumping. That's not the car being broken or having a bad design.There are technology limits based on the nature of the game (or vehicle car vs airplane) that limit what designs are most effective.

    You'll note that In professional e-sports they don't run tournaments over the net. They bring everyone to a single place and use a LAN. Because due to lag someone might get hit by an attack they didn't see coming. And believe me, if the games with tens of millions of players and professional competition and large corporate sponsors cannot solve this problem, no mmo will.

    And every game has this issue somewhere. in swtor there are raid/operation/queue instructions that say "get out of the red danger zone AND JUMP to force the server to update your location". In their engine jumping sends your location from the server to your client as an immediate update so you can see if you're really safe or not. Because they have bosses with one-shot kill attacks where the place you are standing matters. But there is no technological way, given limits of bandwidth, to handle this worldwide multiplayer without lag.

    Exactly like a car needs wheels on the ground to turn or stop, this is an inherent limit to internet games, it is not sto being broken.

    They could just suck it up and go with cross the line, but the drawbacks of that are unavoidable and worse. How does customer support help three people who all have screenshots of themselves in first place on the same race? They can't. That form of race would have many more upset players than the version we do have.


  • euripidiaeuripidia Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    In my opinion , its broken. A designed event that will not work as intended because of lag, bad design and other things, it is a broken event, period. And specially when the devs could do it other way and fix all the bad things about the powerboardrace but they wont. Maybe people is so used to broken things in this game, that they see it as normal even when it isnt lol. Just assuming too much, i guess

    1. Its a capture the flag contest. By definition, its working as intended. The fact that some players feel it *should* be a first to the finish line race does not make it broken.

    2. A lot of people think this would be an easy thing to fix, but the reason it works the way it does isn't just because of a nebulous "lag" reason, its because of a fundamental way the STO client handles player input called client-side prediction. In order to make the game play more smoothly, the game client predicts what your inputs will do and renders that before the server acknowledges the motion. In this way, players get immediate feedback on their inputs and the result is a lot smoother than if every single input had to go all the way to the server and back again. Take this away, and the game would be perceived as a lot more laggy. But because of client-side prediction, you *always* see yourself slightly ahead of everyone and everything else in time - the client shows what you do slightly quicker than what everything else does.

    That causes some glitches, like the fact that sometimes the client thinks you can fire a torpedo on a high-deflection target, but the server disagrees. Then you get that torpedo studder. Here, it also means if you were to try to make a straight-up race, you would always see yourself farther down the racecourse, relative to everyone else. In any race where you see yourself arrive at the flag at the exact same time as someone else, chances are they actually got there first - because to get there at the same time your client is predicting you'd be there, they probably had to get there at least a few milliseconds earlier.

    This makes it impossible to make credible cross-the-finish-line-first racing in STO: everyone would disagree over who crossed first, and everyone would have screenshot evidence to prove it. But the only way to "fix" this in the general case is to eliminate client-side prediction (or eliminate all internet lag entirely), which would make the entire rest of the game play worse.

    3. On the general subject of whether this is "fair" some people have suggested this race is wildly unfair because no race works like this, or its "gambling" or whatever. But there are real professional races that have similar elements. For example, NASCAR racing has elements of this. NASCAR uses a first to the finish line goal, because they don't have to deal with lag. But when it comes to strategy, it isn't the case that the best strategy is to go all out for the finish line, or always go for first place. And if you are neck and neck with a racer, how the other racers act can determine the winner of the race. Even given predictable mechanical and driver performance, it is still a significant gamble to try to move up in placement, because of drafting issues. Sometimes, racers will tactically go for second rather than risk trying for first and possibly ending up fifth, particularly when second place is meaningful like for seasonal standings, just like its very meaningful in STO whether you place second or fourth.

    We could make NASCAR perfectly fair by having each racer run separately and place them based on track time. Then the only element of the race would be fastest to the line, there would be no jockeying for place, and there would be no advantages or disadvantages to taking tactical risks. Except absolutely no one wants that.
  • This content has been removed.
  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    euripidia wrote: »
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    its because of a fundamental way the STO client handles player input called client-side prediction. In order to make the game play more smoothly, the game client predicts what your inputs will do and renders that before the server acknowledges the motion. In this way, players get immediate feedback on their inputs and the result is a lot smoother than if every single input had to go all the way to the server and back again. Take this away, and the game would be perceived as a lot more laggy. But because of client-side prediction, you *always* see yourself slightly ahead of everyone and everything else in time - the client shows what you do slightly quicker than what everything else does.

    This isn't STO specific, it's all MMOs or similar games that use the net to connect players together for real time gameplay.

    At the end of the day, people complain now about the flag race. If they changed it, people would complain that they were first and got ripped off, and of course then there'd be the inevitable conspiracy theories. Right now, no one really complains that they were ripped off, just that they don't like it. IMO that's the better choice for the game.

    Having said that, the "lag" issue is the same regardless of whether it's the race for the flag or race for the finish line. You can still think you were at the flag first and pressed your button before someone else that looks a bit farther away and yet not win. It's just not as noticeable because you're not really moving when you're trying to grab the flag and things are frantic. So really, one could argue that Cryptic has made the right design choice by masking technical limitations with the way they did the finish.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    There is an easy fix - don't do it at all. Any of these PvP events just bring out the worst in people. No need for that at all.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    It's not "this game" and it absolutely is working as intended. It is built as a capture the flag race, not a cross the line race.

    Sure, because there are only dozens of "detect finish line" mechanics in this game. Including the "fly high" mission. If you think it is so hard to implement such mechanics in a simple race, well, definitely we should be playing mario bross.. xD. I would say that is the never-ending lazy behaviour of the devs, but of course its not, they are amazing and if there is something they cant do, its because it is damn hard to achieve. -sarcasmfinished. Some of you seem really new to this game, seriously.. :)
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    kittyflofy wrote: »
    It's not "this game" and it absolutely is working as intended. It is built as a capture the flag race, not a cross the line race.

    Sure, because there are only dozens of "detect finish line" mechanics in this game. Including the "fly high" mission. If you think it is so hard to implement such mechanics in a simple race, well, definitely we should be playing mario bross.. xD. I would say that is the never-ending lazy behaviour of the devs, but of course its not, they are amazing and if there is something they cant do, its because it is damn hard to achieve. -sarcasmfinished. Some of you seem really new to this game, seriously.. :)
    And every one of those has errors based on lag. I sometimes have to turn around and go back through a gate on flying high because the server knows I'm past it, but lost track of me going through it. And there are many more examples, like people thinking they are clear of the vaadwaur artillery and still getting killed, and every winter event there are threads about people thinking they beat the npc on fasted game on ice. In single player mode those glitches are no biggie.frustrating, but survivable. In pvp they are a major source of trouble. Again, so major that professional e-sports don't play on wan on LAN.

    Also hyperbole and insults are not the way to win arguments nor get the devs to take you seriously.
    Post edited by gavinruneblade on
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    And still it will be far more effective than the actual system. By far.

    Pvp? dude, there is no pvp in this game... that for a start (i mean people really dont care about other people talking about pvp..).

    And the same will happen in the winter event, so get used to it...
Sign In or Register to comment.