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STO Since Delta Rising up to S10

captaingalaxy1captaingalaxy1 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
I don't appolgise for what I am about to say as it needs to be said. Star Trek Online is a now joke of a game, it ain't a game anymore, just a money miner for perfectworld. I don't invest in the game now because of how unenjoyable it has become. Our fleet has seen a trend and that is a significant fall in player retention/inactivity rates since Delta Rising and our allied fleets have reported similar trends. We are quite active in our recruitment process but that is not enough to stop the growing trend that appears to be showing itself.

I would call on the Star Trek Online Development Team to think seriously about how the development of the game in the period of Delta Rising up to Season 10 The Iconian War have impacted on the game. And what they can do to make the game enjoyable again and attract new players as well as retaining existing.

Please do look at enhancing and adding a wealth of content to the game across the board and enhancing existing
(Not removing and saying you have enhanced the game)
One possible example that come to mind include

A New PVP engine following new consulation with playerbase to determine viablity. This was mentioned awhile back as a way of reinvigorating PVP. Increasing the dwell time ingame. It is no fun to sit there for ages constantly destoying the same ships on the same PVE missions.

I have other ideas, many that have been talked about by other members of the Star Trek Online Community but I won't repeat them here.

Star Trek Online can be saved if you are willing to revisit the games roots and make it fun again. Copy cat missions, grind and more grind for not much at the end = an un-fufiling experiance that would put most new players and existing of the game.

One thing I will comend yourselves on is the overall story of Star Trek Online, that is enjoyable but Season 10 feels rushed, very rushed and I expected the Iconian invasion to be much more dramatic. Since the build up had that feel but it wasn't delivered in my opinion.

The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands

C.Galaxy

STO Player Since 2012
"Omega Class will prevail she cannot be defeated!"
«1

Comments

  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    I don't appolgise for what I am about to say as it needs to be said. Star Trek Online is a now joke of a game, it ain't a game anymore, just a money miner for perfectworld. I don't invest in the game now because of how unenjoyable it has become. Our fleet has seen a trend and that is a significant fall in player retention/inactivity rates since Delta Rising and our allied fleets have reported similar trends. We are quite active in our recruitment process but that is not enough to stop the growing trend that appears to be showing itself.

    I would call on the Star Trek Online Development Team to think seriously about how the development of the game in the period of Delta Rising up to Season 10 The Iconian War have impacted on the game. And what they can do to make the game enjoyable again and attract new players as well as retaining existing.

    Please do look at enhancing and adding a wealth of content to the game across the board and enhancing existing
    (Not removing and saying you have enhanced the game)
    One possible example that come to mind include

    A New PVP engine following new consulation with playerbase to determine viablity. This was mentioned awhile back as a way of reinvigorating PVP. Increasing the dwell time ingame. It is no fun to sit there for ages constantly destoying the same ships on the same PVE missions.

    I have other ideas, many that have been talked about by other members of the Star Trek Online Community but I won't repeat them here.

    Star Trek Online can be saved if you are willing to revisit the games roots and make it fun again. Copy cat missions, grind and more grind for not much at the end = an un-fufiling experiance that would put most new players and existing of the game.

    One thing I will comend yourselves on is the overall story of Star Trek Online, that is enjoyable but Season 10 feels rushed, very rushed and I expected the Iconian invasion to be much more dramatic. Since the build up had that feel but it wasn't delivered in my opinion.

    The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands

    C.Galaxy

    STO Player Since 2012

    The only reason Season 10 feels rushed is because we didn't get any kind of non-queue area in which we can earn Iconian marks from (Every other Reputation has such an area). Plus, outside of the episodes and PvE queues, you don't really have the sense that there is a big war going on out there.

    The reason why the new PvP engine hasn't been implemented is because the developers haven't had time to properly address it on the schedule. The way it is now, PvP will probably be touched once they redo the skill tree, update the last old arcs that exist in the game that are lower in quality compared to newer episodes, give us back Exploration and import Neverwinter foundry features into our foundry.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    It depends. Foundry is still not viable replacement for exploration.

    Foundry is user generated content with pre-determined result that is repeatable.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    It depends. Foundry is still not viable replacement for exploration.

    Foundry is user generated content with pre-determined result that is repeatable.

    However foundry missions are not marked off in any way on the sector map, there's very little clue as to what a mission will contain before you play it, and they can often feature multiple locations apart from the system you start off at (so you don't know for certain where you'll end up).

    Its exploration. Its not procedurally generated, but at no point in the history of our species has that been a pre-requisite for exploration. Just take the Europeans. For the last few centuries they've mostly been "exploring" what other people have setup for themselves while calling it a thrilling adventure into the unknown. Hell, just take STAR TREK. How many episodes featured a location truly NO ONE has gone before? Seems to me the locals knew the area pretty well. So its seems rather artificial to me to complain about how we still don't have a replacement for the old system of "exploration" just because someone out there determined the course of Foundry missions. Never mind what we're doing, an irrelevant box hasn't been checked yet.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    not everyone can pull an EAware and say 'ok players hate grind, lets focus on story instead' like the upcoming shift in focus for swtor
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • captaingalaxy1captaingalaxy1 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    The only reason Season 10 feels rushed is because we didn't get any kind of non-queue area in which we can earn Iconian marks from (Every other Reputation has such an area). Plus, outside of the episodes and PvE queues, you don't really have the sense that there is a big war going on out there.

    The reason why the new PvP engine hasn't been implemented is because the developers haven't had time to properly address it on the schedule. The way it is now, PvP will probably be touched once they redo the skill tree, update the last old arcs that exist in the game that are lower in quality compared to newer episodes, give us back Exploration and import Neverwinter foundry features into our foundry. [/quote]

    I do hope things progress the way you suggest, just the game has so much potential and I would hate for people who have played the game for so long to lose intrest and just quit.
    "Omega Class will prevail she cannot be defeated!"
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    not everyone can pull an EAware and say 'ok players hate grind, lets focus on story instead' like the upcoming shift in focus for swtor
    Come to think of it, hasn't STO done that already?

    S10 is the story heaviest season in STO. What are we at now, 5 missions (UA, BotA, DF, HoP, and the new one). That's equal to any of series we saw prior to season 6 (since when its been the odd couple of expasions moving things along while seasons have focused on repeatable end game content, like new zones and PVE's [which of the two this time we only got a customary infusion of new queues]). And its certain that more episodes (plural) are coming. We've also got more characters (canon or no) involved than even in the expansions and a plot that's finally paying off the conflict STO has been foreshadowing since day one. There's more story-heavy stuff in game, and more stuff going on in that content.

    That's a lot of service to things apart from grinding. Sure, there's replay rewards, but intentional replayability is only the first step towards creating a grind. You don't reach the life-sucking climax just by making re-usable content. :P
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    I don't appolgise for what I am about to say as it needs to be said. Star Trek Online is a now joke of a game, it ain't a game anymore, just a money miner for perfectworld. I don't invest in the game now because of how unenjoyable it has become. Our fleet has seen a trend and that is a significant fall in player retention/inactivity rates since Delta Rising and our allied fleets have reported similar trends. We are quite active in our recruitment process but that is not enough to stop the growing trend that appears to be showing itself.

    I would call on the Star Trek Online Development Team to think seriously about how the development of the game in the period of Delta Rising up to Season 10 The Iconian War have impacted on the game. And what they can do to make the game enjoyable again and attract new players as well as retaining existing.

    Please do look at enhancing and adding a wealth of content to the game across the board and enhancing existing
    (Not removing and saying you have enhanced the game)
    One possible example that come to mind include

    A New PVP engine following new consulation with playerbase to determine viablity. This was mentioned awhile back as a way of reinvigorating PVP. Increasing the dwell time ingame. It is no fun to sit there for ages constantly destoying the same ships on the same PVE missions.

    I have other ideas, many that have been talked about by other members of the Star Trek Online Community but I won't repeat them here.

    Star Trek Online can be saved if you are willing to revisit the games roots and make it fun again. Copy cat missions, grind and more grind for not much at the end = an un-fufiling experiance that would put most new players and existing of the game.

    One thing I will comend yourselves on is the overall story of Star Trek Online, that is enjoyable but Season 10 feels rushed, very rushed and I expected the Iconian invasion to be much more dramatic. Since the build up had that feel but it wasn't delivered in my opinion.

    The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands

    C.Galaxy

    STO Player Since 2012

    So all of this doom, wrapped around a single suggestion for how to "save" STO, and that one suggestion is "PvP"? Seriously? *snorts*
  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    I don't appolgise for what I am about to say as it needs to be said. Star Trek Online is a now joke of a game, it ain't a game anymore, just a money miner for perfectworld. I don't invest in the game now because of how unenjoyable it has become. Our fleet has seen a trend and that is a significant fall in player retention/inactivity rates since Delta Rising and our allied fleets have reported similar trends. We are quite active in our recruitment process but that is not enough to stop the growing trend that appears to be showing itself.

    I would call on the Star Trek Online Development Team to think seriously about how the development of the game in the period of Delta Rising up to Season 10 The Iconian War have impacted on the game. And what they can do to make the game enjoyable again and attract new players as well as retaining existing.

    Please do look at enhancing and adding a wealth of content to the game across the board and enhancing existing
    (Not removing and saying you have enhanced the game)
    One possible example that come to mind include

    A New PVP engine following new consulation with playerbase to determine viablity. This was mentioned awhile back as a way of reinvigorating PVP. Increasing the dwell time ingame. It is no fun to sit there for ages constantly destoying the same ships on the same PVE missions.

    I have other ideas, many that have been talked about by other members of the Star Trek Online Community but I won't repeat them here.

    Star Trek Online can be saved if you are willing to revisit the games roots and make it fun again. Copy cat missions, grind and more grind for not much at the end = an un-fufiling experiance that would put most new players and existing of the game.

    One thing I will comend yourselves on is the overall story of Star Trek Online, that is enjoyable but Season 10 feels rushed, very rushed and I expected the Iconian invasion to be much more dramatic. Since the build up had that feel but it wasn't delivered in my opinion.

    The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands

    C.Galaxy

    STO Player Since 2012

    The only reason Season 10 feels rushed is because we didn't get any kind of non-queue area in which we can earn Iconian marks from (Every other Reputation has such an area). Plus, outside of the episodes and PvE queues, you don't really have the sense that there is a big war going on out there.

    The reason why the new PvP engine hasn't been implemented is because the developers haven't had time to properly address it on the schedule. The way it is now, PvP will probably be touched once they redo the skill tree, update the last old arcs that exist in the game that are lower in quality compared to newer episodes, give us back Exploration and import Neverwinter foundry features into our foundry.

    The last 2 missions on Kobali Prime give the option of Delta or Iconian Marks plus you can get Datacores and powercells from them once a day. That is where I got mine until I could start trading in birds.

    HzLLhLB.gif

  • This content has been removed.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    not everyone can pull an EAware and say 'ok players hate grind, lets focus on story instead' like the upcoming shift in focus for swtor

    Not everyone can have a caturday level exploit like SWTOR just days after enticing new players to the game...
    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=819329
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    I did lol at that popping up right after a 12hr long maintenance myself
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    I did lol at that popping up right after a 12hr long maintenance myself

    complete with the devs giving everyone instructions on how to do it as they login then saying "please don't or else".

    *facepalm*
  • captaingalaxy1captaingalaxy1 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Yeah, gonna go ahead and tell ya OP, I do not agree with your opinion on the current state of the game, or your suggestion to "save" it. Frankly given the extreme unpopularity of pvp in STO a focus on pvp will likely kill the game. The VAST majority of STO players don't pvp, don't care about pvp, and won't allow others to force them to care about pvp.

    I did not say that working on PVP will save the game (One suggestion among many possibles), fine you have the right to disagree with my whole post but you clearly haven't been around since free to play launch. as a result you haven't had the experience us long time players have had to review the game and why we may feel this way.

    How long have you been a player then?

    Where is your evidence that STO players don't care about PVP. People do play still play in private matches. I do for one.

    No one is forcing people to care about PVP, it is a passion for PVP to be better in future along with the whole game so it is a rewarding long lasting experience or in game industry terms High replay value. As I have said it is one suggestion among many possibles.
    "Omega Class will prevail she cannot be defeated!"
  • captaingalaxy1captaingalaxy1 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    protogoth wrote: »
    I don't appolgise for what I am about to say as it needs to be said. Star Trek Online is a now joke of a game, it ain't a game anymore, just a money miner for perfectworld. I don't invest in the game now because of how unenjoyable it has become. Our fleet has seen a trend and that is a significant fall in player retention/inactivity rates since Delta Rising and our allied fleets have reported similar trends. We are quite active in our recruitment process but that is not enough to stop the growing trend that appears to be showing itself.

    I would call on the Star Trek Online Development Team to think seriously about how the development of the game in the period of Delta Rising up to Season 10 The Iconian War have impacted on the game. And what they can do to make the game enjoyable again and attract new players as well as retaining existing.

    Please do look at enhancing and adding a wealth of content to the game across the board and enhancing existing
    (Not removing and saying you have enhanced the game)
    One possible example that come to mind include

    A New PVP engine following new consulation with playerbase to determine viablity. This was mentioned awhile back as a way of reinvigorating PVP. Increasing the dwell time ingame. It is no fun to sit there for ages constantly destoying the same ships on the same PVE missions.

    I have other ideas, many that have been talked about by other members of the Star Trek Online Community but I won't repeat them here.

    Star Trek Online can be saved if you are willing to revisit the games roots and make it fun again. Copy cat missions, grind and more grind for not much at the end = an un-fufiling experiance that would put most new players and existing of the game.

    One thing I will comend yourselves on is the overall story of Star Trek Online, that is enjoyable but Season 10 feels rushed, very rushed and I expected the Iconian invasion to be much more dramatic. Since the build up had that feel but it wasn't delivered in my opinion.

    The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands

    C.Galaxy

    STO Player Since 2012

    So all of this doom, wrapped around a single suggestion for how to "save" STO, and that one suggestion is "PvP"? Seriously? *snorts*

    It is not doom, its is an observation and not just by one single player, The PVP suggestion is not the "only one" way to fix STO. As I have suggested there any many other points (thou not writen down on this post) that could be touched on.
    "Omega Class will prevail she cannot be defeated!"
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    protogoth wrote: »
    I don't appolgise for what I am about to say as it needs to be said. Star Trek Online is a now joke of a game, it ain't a game anymore, just a money miner for perfectworld. I don't invest in the game now because of how unenjoyable it has become. Our fleet has seen a trend and that is a significant fall in player retention/inactivity rates since Delta Rising and our allied fleets have reported similar trends. We are quite active in our recruitment process but that is not enough to stop the growing trend that appears to be showing itself.

    I would call on the Star Trek Online Development Team to think seriously about how the development of the game in the period of Delta Rising up to Season 10 The Iconian War have impacted on the game. And what they can do to make the game enjoyable again and attract new players as well as retaining existing.

    Please do look at enhancing and adding a wealth of content to the game across the board and enhancing existing
    (Not removing and saying you have enhanced the game)
    One possible example that come to mind include

    A New PVP engine following new consulation with playerbase to determine viablity. This was mentioned awhile back as a way of reinvigorating PVP. Increasing the dwell time ingame. It is no fun to sit there for ages constantly destoying the same ships on the same PVE missions.

    I have other ideas, many that have been talked about by other members of the Star Trek Online Community but I won't repeat them here.

    Star Trek Online can be saved if you are willing to revisit the games roots and make it fun again. Copy cat missions, grind and more grind for not much at the end = an un-fufiling experiance that would put most new players and existing of the game.

    One thing I will comend yourselves on is the overall story of Star Trek Online, that is enjoyable but Season 10 feels rushed, very rushed and I expected the Iconian invasion to be much more dramatic. Since the build up had that feel but it wasn't delivered in my opinion.

    The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands

    C.Galaxy

    STO Player Since 2012

    So all of this doom, wrapped around a single suggestion for how to "save" STO, and that one suggestion is "PvP"? Seriously? *snorts*

    It is not doom, its is an observation and not just by one single player, The PVP suggestion is not the "only one" way to fix STO. As I have suggested there any many other points (thou not writen down on this post) that could be touched on.

    I've been an STO player since 2012 as well. La-di-da.

    I've also seen doom from many players of many games. What you expressed was a series of "STO isn't a game anymore, it's a money-making scheme, it's unenjoyable, it's this and that" added to vague intimations of coming doom with comments like "The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands."

    And the only suggestion which you proposed in the OP was exactly that: PvP. I'm not going to address anything in this post which was "not writen down on this post," because I'm not a mind-reader. You gave one and only one suggestion in this thread, and it was nothing more or less than "PvP, yo."

    Mind you, I do PvP in STO occasionally, but the very idea that PvP would "save" STO, even if it were in need of being saved, is absolutely ludicrous. Whether you like it or not, most STO players don't PvP, for many reasons, probably primarily because that's not what Trek is about. Denying it based on "I do and I know others who do" is fallacious. I do and I know others who do as well, some of whom do it a lot more than I do, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that we're somehow a majority.
  • captaingalaxy1captaingalaxy1 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    protogoth wrote: »
    protogoth wrote: »
    I don't appolgise for what I am about to say as it needs to be said. Star Trek Online is a now joke of a game, it ain't a game anymore, just a money miner for perfectworld. I don't invest in the game now because of how unenjoyable it has become. Our fleet has seen a trend and that is a significant fall in player retention/inactivity rates since Delta Rising and our allied fleets have reported similar trends. We are quite active in our recruitment process but that is not enough to stop the growing trend that appears to be showing itself.

    I would call on the Star Trek Online Development Team to think seriously about how the development of the game in the period of Delta Rising up to Season 10 The Iconian War have impacted on the game. And what they can do to make the game enjoyable again and attract new players as well as retaining existing.

    Please do look at enhancing and adding a wealth of content to the game across the board and enhancing existing
    (Not removing and saying you have enhanced the game)
    One possible example that come to mind include

    A New PVP engine following new consulation with playerbase to determine viablity. This was mentioned awhile back as a way of reinvigorating PVP. Increasing the dwell time ingame. It is no fun to sit there for ages constantly destoying the same ships on the same PVE missions.

    I have other ideas, many that have been talked about by other members of the Star Trek Online Community but I won't repeat them here.

    Star Trek Online can be saved if you are willing to revisit the games roots and make it fun again. Copy cat missions, grind and more grind for not much at the end = an un-fufiling experiance that would put most new players and existing of the game.

    One thing I will comend yourselves on is the overall story of Star Trek Online, that is enjoyable but Season 10 feels rushed, very rushed and I expected the Iconian invasion to be much more dramatic. Since the build up had that feel but it wasn't delivered in my opinion.

    The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands

    C.Galaxy

    STO Player Since 2012

    So all of this doom, wrapped around a single suggestion for how to "save" STO, and that one suggestion is "PvP"? Seriously? *snorts*

    It is not doom, its is an observation and not just by one single player, The PVP suggestion is not the "only one" way to fix STO. As I have suggested there any many other points (thou not writen down on this post) that could be touched on.

    I've been an STO player since 2012 as well. La-di-da.

    I've also seen doom from many players of many games. What you expressed was a series of "STO isn't a game anymore, it's a money-making scheme, it's unenjoyable, it's this and that" added to vague intimations of coming doom with comments like "The fate of Star Trek Online rests in your hands."

    And the only suggestion which you proposed in the OP was exactly that: PvP. I'm not going to address anything in this post which was "not writen down on this post," because I'm not a mind-reader. You gave one and only one suggestion in this thread, and it was nothing more or less than "PvP, yo."

    Mind you, I do PvP in STO occasionally, but the very idea that PvP would "save" STO, even if it were in need of being saved, is absolutely ludicrous. Whether you like it or not, most STO players don't PvP, for many reasons, probably primarily because that's not what Trek is about. Denying it based on "I do and I know others who do" is fallacious. I do and I know others who do as well, some of whom do it a lot more than I do, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend that we're somehow a majority.

    I understand what you are saying, hopefully the game will improve over time, in my opinion it needs work but then thats the beauty of an MMO isn't it? Always evolving
    "Omega Class will prevail she cannot be defeated!"
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    I think this game is beyond the point of no return. It cannot be saved anymore. The only thing cryptic can do is trying to get as much cash as possible and then shut down the servers - and that's exactly what we're seeing since S9.5.

    There's just too much power creep, bugs, cash grabs and grind to ever return to a normal state. This is what killed PvP and it's slowly killing PvE aswell. Nothing in this game encourages me to spend time and money anymore. After DR I tried to keep up at least 1 of my 8 characters - I failed. I spend about 1.300.000.000 EC, millions of Dilithium and grinded for weeks just to max out my main PvP character and still I'm not done with it and I simply gave up considering I needed to invest almost the same again to be finished and rdy for arena.
    My other toons really haven't been touched other than for the grind. So, since S9.5 or DR, I didn't really play the game - I just worked! It wasn't fun at all and realizing, the hard work isn't even worth it, I just quit. Why would I go on and finish my work in STO? For what? For a broken, unbalanced and abandoned game?

    If cryptic released a Season 1.2 shard or a Vanilla PvP mode with the old meta and almost no grind (like it used to be), I'd be back instantly! I'd even pay for it!
  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I wish you people would realize that the reason pvp is not the majority of this game is solely cryptic's fault. It is not the player base and it isn't because STO never had a multitude of pvpers to rival the pve player numbers. many pvpers saw that cryptic couldn't design a worthwhile pvp engine and over the years, realized that 5 pvp maps (4 of them original to beta time period) made them want to leave. Don't think for one second that there would not be 10's of thousands of pvpers that would come back into the fold if cryptic would learn how to put out a true quality product.

    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • captaingalaxy1captaingalaxy1 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    dgdolph wrote: »
    I think this game is beyond the point of no return. It cannot be saved anymore. The only thing cryptic can do is trying to get as much cash as possible and then shut down the servers - and that's exactly what we're seeing since S9.5.

    There's just too much power creep, bugs, cash grabs and grind to ever return to a normal state. This is what killed PvP and it's slowly killing PvE aswell. Nothing in this game encourages me to spend time and money anymore. After DR I tried to keep up at least 1 of my 8 characters - I failed. I spend about 1.300.000.000 EC, millions of Dilithium and grinded for weeks just to max out my main PvP character and still I'm not done with it and I simply gave up considering I needed to invest almost the same again to be finished and rdy for arena.
    My other toons really haven't been touched other than for the grind. So, since S9.5 or DR, I didn't really play the game - I just worked! It wasn't fun at all and realizing, the hard work isn't even worth it, I just quit. Why would I go on and finish my work in STO? For what? For a broken, unbalanced and abandoned game?

    If cryptic released a Season 1.2 shard or a Vanilla PvP mode with the old meta and almost no grind (like it used to be), I'd be back instantly! I'd even pay for it!

    My point exactly! Thats exactly how the game feels to be going. As far as I know Al Rivera
    aka CaptainGeko or one of the devs stated on their twitter feed that they have the story written up to 2016, from then onwards it is the unknown
    "Omega Class will prevail she cannot be defeated!"
  • blassreiterusblassreiterus Member Posts: 1,294 Arc User
    dgdolph wrote: »
    I think this game is beyond the point of no return. It cannot be saved anymore. The only thing cryptic can do is trying to get as much cash as possible and then shut down the servers - and that's exactly what we're seeing since S9.5.

    There's just too much power creep, bugs, cash grabs and grind to ever return to a normal state. This is what killed PvP and it's slowly killing PvE aswell. Nothing in this game encourages me to spend time and money anymore. After DR I tried to keep up at least 1 of my 8 characters - I failed. I spend about 1.300.000.000 EC, millions of Dilithium and grinded for weeks just to max out my main PvP character and still I'm not done with it and I simply gave up considering I needed to invest almost the same again to be finished and rdy for arena.
    My other toons really haven't been touched other than for the grind. So, since S9.5 or DR, I didn't really play the game - I just worked! It wasn't fun at all and realizing, the hard work isn't even worth it, I just quit. Why would I go on and finish my work in STO? For what? For a broken, unbalanced and abandoned game?

    If cryptic released a Season 1.2 shard or a Vanilla PvP mode with the old meta and almost no grind (like it used to be), I'd be back instantly! I'd even pay for it!
    Excuse me, but this game's been abandoned? If that's true (which it isn't by way), then why are the devs actively working to add more content to it and fix stuff that need fixing? You can't answer that last question because you will either dismiss the question as lies or other stuff. This game isn't abandoned. That right there is a fact.

    Star Trek Online LTS player.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    tfomega wrote: »
    I wish you people would realize that the reason pvp is not the majority of this game is solely cryptic's fault. It is not the player base and it isn't because STO never had a multitude of pvpers to rival the pve player numbers. many pvpers saw that cryptic couldn't design a worthwhile pvp engine and over the years, realized that 5 pvp maps (4 of them original to beta time period) made them want to leave. Don't think for one second that there would not be 10's of thousands of pvpers that would come back into the fold if cryptic would learn how to put out a true quality product.

    Yah I'm calling BS on this one.

    1. Not all games support multiplayer equally well. That's a fact of core design which can be immediately appreciated by examining some of the best games in each venue. Fallout 3 for example works well because it isn't Unreal Tournament, and visa versa. They specialize, taking in the first case the opportunity to do things which excel at the job of wrecking AI's (ex. auto-targeting) but you would never want in a competitive multiplayer format. True, there are hybrids (ex. Halo, WoW) that put a lot of effort into maintaining multiple modes but its quite easy to argue that being such a generalist keeps those game in an unsatisfying compromise that's only helped by the breadth (as opposed to depth) of gameplay available.

    STO does well enough for itself (ie. an aging F2P MMO which got off to a rocky start indeed) by specializing. That may not pander to every possible interest (ex. competitive multiplayer) but it keeps the game competitive against the many alternatives which make compromises for those people (but not to whom STO favors.)

    Its called a niche. Don't like it? Find another. This close to the core identity of the game NO argument for change is valid.

    2. Multiplayer games can be forgiven much (ex. lack of maps, support features) if it has a strong core (see. Team Fortress 2, Halo CE, Counterstrike). If STO fails PVP it fails primarily because of its core design (meaning that except by designing an entirely different game in almost every single respect PVP cannot work well here. Pace, balance, mechanics, equipment, stats, health models, player movement, it would all need to be stripped out and rebuilt for decent multiplayer [and that alone]). The details of implementation are entirely secondary (nice to have but only when you've resolved the primary details of design).

    3. Even with strong multiplayer modes and good feature support multiplayer games can still fail to find a popular niche. Ex. Section 8 Prejudice. Your "10's of thousands of PVP'ers" is spurious nonsense even if the premise of your argument was valid (in other words, you've completely made it up). One might get the mechanical components of a game right (which is out of the question in this case) but if you fail to find resonance your mechanical success will count for nothing (as what defines popular success is an emotional appeal.) A "good" game [or product of any kind] does not automatically get a massive following.

    4. This is a STAR TREK rpg. Narrative based gameplay (ie. PVE) is going to take priority.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    tfomega wrote: »
    I wish you people would realize that the reason pvp is not the majority of this game is solely cryptic's fault. It is not the player base and it isn't because STO never had a multitude of pvpers to rival the pve player numbers. many pvpers saw that cryptic couldn't design a worthwhile pvp engine and over the years, realized that 5 pvp maps (4 of them original to beta time period) made them want to leave. Don't think for one second that there would not be 10's of thousands of pvpers that would come back into the fold if cryptic would learn how to put out a true quality product.

    THIS ^^

    Between 5 and 3 years ago PvP was healthy, exciting and fun, now the only PvP I bother with are fleet, 1v1s and having a laugh in Kerrat. The best PvPers I know have left for other games, not because they wanted to but because you can't be serious about PvP in STO any more. There are plenty of PvP only games out there that do very well indeed, the beauty of STO should be that when you've had enough PvPing for the evening you can go and do a multitude of other things.

    Players used to scream and beg and plead for a PvP revamp, nowadays they don't bother so much because they know it falls on deaf ears. So it's not that there's no demand for a good PvP system in STO, it's because the PvP system in STO is TRIBBLE that the PvPers have left. Build a good system and they will be back, and they will spend money, big money, nobody is going to go all epic to beat a freaking NPC, but they will to beat their mates and long time adversaries, going Epic costs big money, money that Cryptic are not seeing because they don't listen to their player base.

    I agree with this assessment as well. I've played many mmos over the years and I have to say that sto, by a comfortable margin, now has the worst pvp experience I've ever had. The main cause I think is the constant addition of new power creep into the game to generate revenue. Normally, mmos either balance the game around pvp, or have separate pvp rules that govern how abilities work vs other players. This game doesn't do that and it causes a lot of issues that make the overall pvp experience undesirable.

    Pvp really took a hit with the release of delta rising. The level cap increase, new boff abilities, starship traits, ...etc, just enhanced the flaws already present in the gameplay.
    Tza0PEl.png
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    build yer own trek moba and go mildlessly pew pew till yer fingers fall off... go be happy... away from sto
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    nikephorus wrote: »
    I've played many mmos over the years and I have to say that sto, by a comfortable margin, now has the worst pvp experience I've ever had. The main cause I think is the constant addition of new power creep into the game to generate revenue. Normally, mmos either balance the game around pvp, or have separate pvp rules that govern how abilities work vs other players. This game doesn't do that and it causes a lot of issues that make the overall pvp experience undesirable.

    Pvp really took a hit with the release of delta rising. The level cap increase, new boff abilities, starship traits, ...etc, just enhanced the flaws already present in the gameplay.

    I don't think you've played enough MMOs, because I've seen far worse PvP in a few other games. PvP is at least possible in STO instead of "whoever gets the first skill to hit wins" (because the first hit is some kind of snare or paralysis, and you don't have enough time to get out of it before you're dead), or "one-hit wonders" (whoever actually lands the first blow mortalizes the recipient of the hit).

    Could STO PvP be improved? Absolutely. But it's by no means the worst PvP out there.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    I doubt Cryptic can ever repair the damage that's been done to PvP. At best, they add in one or two new maps and make a vanilla mode (traditional trek - no kits, traits, set powers, etc).

    It depends. Foundry is still not viable replacement for exploration.

    True, it's not a viable replacement. However, if done right the foundry has potential to supplement exploration.





  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    I don't know if STO's PvP is the worst PvP ever, but it's not good. I used to PvP a lot, but with power creep, imbalances and gear grinds added to the game I stopped playing STO all together. I eventualyl came back, but not for PvP - I came back to catch up on the story additions (I wasn't around when LOR launched!) and for the space ship prôn.

    I don't believe STO needs saving. It needs continual development and additionns, and for that it needs people that buy the stuff in the C-Store or exchange Zen for Dilithium. That's all. PvP could be a kind of addition that increases the number of people or the amount of Zen bought, but there are most likely a lot of other things that could do it, too. They have done so in the past.

    But a PvP addition is not trivial. It requires significant revamps most likey, and if those revamps hurt other parts of STO's business models, then it won't happen. Grind, power creep and imbalances stand in the way of a good PvP experience. But grinds are part of STO's model. Power Creep is to some extent, too - new ships always seem to have some aspect (tiny or large) that might make them seem better than the ones before, which positively affects their sales.
    And the whole game balance thing - it requires a lot of work by the game designers. It's a big task that will require many work-hours - and those work-hours need to pay off. It seems really risky. More risky than an expansion like LOR or DR.
    They would need to have a solid business plan for how it pays off. They can't come "oh, I am sure we'll attract more players, and that will affect sales". There must be something attached to it that is likely to generate sales. LOR had its new faction and its ship pack. DR had a new ship tier and a ship pack to go with it.
    What would PvP offer? Notice that the previous expansion included ship packs? noticed how most seasons introduced new stuff to grind? What can PvP offer that Cryptic or PWE would trust to generate sales?
    I am not saying there isn't an answer and it's impossible. But it might not be one you like.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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