The real issue isn't basing things on earth based life.
The issue is the people involved in the show, took there ques from things we know all the time. In the case of star ships all the examples you can find that are based on life forms are turned around backwards on purpose. (ok perhaps not... the space jelly from far point didn't need to be lol) So in that regard Cryptic got it wrong.
No, Cryptic didn't get it "wrong", they just made an aesthetic choice that you don't agree with. It seems to me that your impression of the Nandi as backwards stems from an aesthetic sense which focuses primarily on rough outlines and profiles, such that anything that doesn't match the paradigm of "narrow front, wider back" looks wrong to you, and that's fine. It's okay that you don't like the Nandi. It's even okay that you were really excited about seeing another Ferengi ship but feel like it doesn't share enough of the design cues from previous ships to register as Ferengi to you. These are all opinions that I strongly disagree with, but at least are conceptually valid from a certain point of view.
What isn't fine is you continuing to insist that your opinion is objectively "right". Here's an important news flash - you actually don't get a say in what the Nandi is supposed to be. You can say that you don't like it, but to say that it is objectively "wrong" is a clearly false claim. That you compound your reasoning errors by insisting on utterly fabricated scenarios (including positing motivations like "just to be edgy") as "facts" proves only that you are not capable of responsibly expressing an opinion, and thus you should not be allowed to have one.
What isn't fine is you continuing to insist that your opinion is objectively "right". Here's an important news flash - you actually don't get a say in what the Nandi is supposed to be. You can say that you don't like it, but to say that it is objectively "wrong" is a clearly false claim. That you compound your reasoning errors by insisting on utterly fabricated scenarios (including positing motivations like "just to be edgy") as "facts" proves only that you are not capable of responsibly expressing an opinion, and thus you should not be allowed to have one.
No there is 100% a wrong and a right when it comes to design.
Yes you can claim artistic licence, and as the artists what ever they do is right.
However there is a reason companies like Ferrari don't turn there cars backwards when they're bored.
I'm glad all 5 of you now have chimed in with a like. I understand now why you still see the odd Pontiac Aztek, PT cruiser, or cube on the road. Some people simply have poor taste.
No there is 100% a wrong and a right when it comes to design.
Yes you can claim artistic licence, and as the artists what ever they do is right.
However there is a reason companies like Ferrari don't turn there cars backwards when they're bored.
I'm glad all 5 of you now have chimed in with a like. I understand now why you still see the odd Pontiac Aztek, PT cruiser, or cube on the road. Some people simply have poor taste.
lol...you're just clearly ignoring everything everyone has to say...like a 5 year old plugging their ears and going "Nah nah nah nah nah! I'm right and your wrong!"
First off the devs made it the way they saw fit, it takes some design queues from the D'kora...which you're obviously ignoring...they even said they designed it after a Trilobite...which I'd say it does resemble one.
So either you're a 5 year old or you want them to change it because you want a T6 D'kora...either way it's not going backwards not matter how much you plug your ears and stick your tongue out and ignore everyone who tells you different...even the designers of said ship.
No there is 100% a wrong and a right when it comes to design.
Yes you can claim artistic licence, and as the artists what ever they do is right.
However there is a reason companies like Ferrari don't turn there cars backwards when they're bored.
I'm glad all 5 of you now have chimed in with a like. I understand now why you still see the odd Pontiac Aztek, PT cruiser, or cube on the road. Some people simply have poor taste.
lol...you're just clearly ignoring everything everyone has to say...like a 5 year old plugging their ears and going "Nah nah nah nah nah! I'm right and your wrong!"
First off the devs made it the way they saw fit, it takes some design queues from the D'kora...which you're obviously ignoring...they even said they designed it after a Trilobite...which I'd say it does resemble one.
So either you're a 5 year old or you want them to change it because you want a T6 D'kora...either way it's not going backwards not matter how much you plug your ears and stick your tongue out and ignore everyone who tells you different...even the designers of said ship.
Hmm, I generally don't agree with you much lianthelia, but this time I have to say you nailed it. There is no such thing as 100% right/wrong when designing things for games, it is all a matter of opinion, and as such varies wildly.
Personally I do think the Nandi does look a bit light in the trunk. But it is a space vehicle, so it doesn't have to be balanced for weight, it is also Ferengi, and definately looks the part.
I'll likely continue to think it a bit odd for a while, that is, until I finally get used to flying around this... exotic ship.
lol...you're just clearly ignoring everything everyone has to say...like a 5 year old plugging their ears and going "Nah nah nah nah nah! I'm right and your wrong!"
First off the devs made it the way they saw fit, it takes some design queues from the D'kora...which you're obviously ignoring...they even said they designed it after a Trilobite...which I'd say it does resemble one.
So either you're a 5 year old or you want them to change it because you want a T6 D'kora...either way it's not going backwards not matter how much you plug your ears and stick your tongue out and ignore everyone who tells you different...even the designers of said ship.
I'm not plugging my ears. I'm pointing out the obvious. It clearly looks wrong to almost everyone that sees it move the first time. Yes it has lots of Ferengi ques. As I have said earlier they got it right, minus the orientation, which is very wrong. The Television Trek Designers based many models on life forms, and decided to flip many of them backwards. This is a case where Cryptic should have just followed CBS/Paramount and flipped their design the right way.
For the same reason a sports car would look wrong if it was flipped around, the nandi looks wrong.
A Ferrari, Porsche or Jag would still look good backwards when they where parked, they would look stupid driving in reverse.
Anyway, Don't let your head blow up. It's not that big a deal. I may laugh at people who bought PT Cruisers behind their backs. That doesn't mean I judge their worth as people. If you like it have fun.
It clearly looks wrong to almost everyone that sees it move the first time
No.
In fact, if it was the opposite, I'd find it weird. And if I only saw the D'Kora from above, I'd find it weird to have the crescent pointing that way, but when you consider the whole shape seen from above, front and sides, it makes sense.
That's the same thing for the Nandi, when you take above, front and sides together, it makes sense for me.
As for the "there is a 100% right/wrong design", just no.
A nice example? The Reliant from ST II.
When the designer sent the drawing to Harve Bennett, Bennett read it upside down and actually liked it. 2 people interpreted the design differently and none of them was wrong or right.
I'm not plugging my ears. I'm pointing out the obvious. It clearly looks wrong to almost everyone that sees it move the first time. Yes it has lots of Ferengi ques. As I have said earlier they got it right, minus the orientation, which is very wrong. The Television Trek Designers based many models on life forms, and decided to flip many of them backwards. This is a case where Cryptic should have just followed CBS/Paramount and flipped their design the right way.
For the same reason a sports car would look wrong if it was flipped around, the nandi looks wrong.
A Ferrari, Porsche or Jag would still look good backwards when they where parked, they would look stupid driving in reverse.
Anyway, Don't let your head blow up. It's not that big a deal. I may laugh at people who bought PT Cruisers behind their backs. That doesn't mean I judge their worth as people. If you like it have fun.
So...what you're trying to say is it doesn't look good flying the way it does? That's a shade different then saying it's flying backwards...
So which is it? You don't like the way it flies or you're trying to tell the creators who can do what ever they want with their creation that they did it wrong? Then I guess the D'kora is flying backwards too...
It seems his problem with the Nandi is that it isn't backwards.
I don't know...if it was backwards it would be a T6 D'kora practically...maybe the OP wants a T6 D'kora.
The Nandi has the same 2 pronged forward hull and has the same pronged nacelles...the reason I could see anyone thinking it's backwards is the sorta rebel alliance insignia shape...which is towards the back now...now if the OP is trying to say the defining characteristic is that shape then that doesn't leave many options for Ferengi ships...also the shuttle and ENT ship don't fit that shape at all.
The OP can't have it every which way...it can't follow basic Ferengi design by all ships and then only judge it against the D'kora...
I have to agree the Nandi does seem to fly backwards, but only because of the wings.
Is it too much of a job cryptic, to flip the wings over, so the ship becomes similar to the d'kora???
That will solve the problem, which needs to be urgently looked at and not just left and abandoned.
Regards the Nandi,Is the bridge the same as the d'kora? bank, exchange and mail onboard????
Is the bridge appearance the same as a d'kora????
I have to agree the Nandi does seem to fly backwards, but only because of the wings.
Is it too much of a job cryptic, to flip the wings over, so the ship becomes similar to the d'kora???
That will solve the problem, which needs to be urgently looked at and not just left and abandoned.
Regards the Nandi,Is the bridge the same as the d'kora? bank, exchange and mail onboard????
Is the bridge appearance the same as a d'kora????
Urgently looked at? Why? Because that's how you want it?
I have to agree the Nandi does seem to fly backwards, but only because of the wings.
Is it too much of a job cryptic, to flip the wings over, so the ship becomes similar to the d'kora???
That will solve the problem, which needs to be urgently looked at and not just left and abandoned.
Regards the Nandi,Is the bridge the same as the d'kora? bank, exchange and mail onboard????
Is the bridge appearance the same as a d'kora????
So let me get this straight...it's flying backwards because you want the wings a different way?
i'm going to make a calculated guess here, and suggest that most (maybe even all) of the folk saying it looks backwards don't pilot a D'Kora? as a D'Kora captain you are used to seeing the very flat geometric angles up front, with its triangular protrusions, and the wingtip weapon points that look like mini claws, and the very rounded rear section that sits up higher than the front of the ship, housing the retractable torpedo launcher. all those elements still remain exactly the same, it just has a swept back side sections now.
I completely agree in every way with everything you just said. Completely. You are correct.
It's just difficult to make such planes work at higher speeds and loads.
EDIT: And I fully back the artists on both the Nandi and the Benthan ship. On screen, the Benthan ship was barely visible (and could have been moving backwards in the shot), using the creator's original plan was sound.
And while I personally don't like the look of the Nandi, it has same basic parts as the D'Kora: Large curved windowed part at the back, smaller slightly forked head in the front and two pincers facing forward on either side.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
If they did make it fly the other way everyone would claim it's a Cardassian ship.
But wait, aren't the Cardassian ships flying backwards ????
It is an alien ship after all, keep in mind that there is a good chance the Ferengi look at Birds of Prey and say "Why are the wings facing the wrong direction?" as well.
You might want to also consider that the ship might not be 100% ferengi inspiried. They are making the ship special order for the Risians, so it might be a Ferengi perspective on Risian ship design and the two styles clash a little.
The Galor got it right and it's actually a beautiful design. It also feels very original, like the Ferengi Marauder did. I think the problem is with the Nandi...it doesn't feel like an evolution and more like breaking a Lego version of the Marauder up and sticking it back together wrong.
Look at the Chimera with the big gut, or the Lego ship...then look at the Pathfinder, which I think feels like a real progression in design.
The Corvette and the other one are cool and quirky, but the Nandi just isn't very fun and for the Summer Event, it should be camp as Christmas...like a Ferengi casino ship, or a holosuite ship (like in Insurrection).
Not a lot of people will fly an event ship all year round, but a novelty is always fun to break out of spacedock when you're bored and to have a lark.
Ooh, now I've mentioned a casino ship, obviously with latinum skin, that would be fun to take into STF...
But wait, aren't the Cardassian ships flying backwards ????
Imagine if someone took a connie, flipped which way it flies and called it a new ship design.
That's basically the reaction some people (including myself) had. Add in the fact that wider fronts than backs is a Cardassian design esthetic and the whole thing becomes lamer.
But whatever, I'm not losing any sleep over it and I even have a character who will open the box and see what customization options there are. Some color changes and I can shift my mindset to view it as a Merc ship.
Imagine if someone took a connie, flipped which way it flies and called it a new ship design.
That's basically the reaction some people (including myself) had. Add in the fact that wider fronts than backs is a Cardassian design esthetic and the whole thing becomes lamer.
But whatever, I'm not losing any sleep over it and I even have a character who will open the box and see what customization options there are. Some color changes and I can shift my mindset to view it as a Merc ship.
I felt the same way. To me it feels like they flipped it over backwards as a lazy, look its new design.
I get that some people like it... lots of people don't care for the D'kora. Its just looks wrong to me.
I don't much care either, well I did start the thread. Really what do any of us care this game doesn't have a lot of reasons to play for long periods of time anyway.
As for customization sorry to have to be the one to tell you. There are none. You can paint it with the standard paint all ships have.
The only bit of extra work they did was making sure the Battle mode console transforms it slightly, its a minor transform. Which is good that is the one thing they got right. At least they didn't make the 3000 turn it into the space equivalent of a go-bot. (hows that for a 80s style cheap knock off reference) lol
Comments
No, Cryptic didn't get it "wrong", they just made an aesthetic choice that you don't agree with. It seems to me that your impression of the Nandi as backwards stems from an aesthetic sense which focuses primarily on rough outlines and profiles, such that anything that doesn't match the paradigm of "narrow front, wider back" looks wrong to you, and that's fine. It's okay that you don't like the Nandi. It's even okay that you were really excited about seeing another Ferengi ship but feel like it doesn't share enough of the design cues from previous ships to register as Ferengi to you. These are all opinions that I strongly disagree with, but at least are conceptually valid from a certain point of view.
What isn't fine is you continuing to insist that your opinion is objectively "right". Here's an important news flash - you actually don't get a say in what the Nandi is supposed to be. You can say that you don't like it, but to say that it is objectively "wrong" is a clearly false claim. That you compound your reasoning errors by insisting on utterly fabricated scenarios (including positing motivations like "just to be edgy") as "facts" proves only that you are not capable of responsibly expressing an opinion, and thus you should not be allowed to have one.
No there is 100% a wrong and a right when it comes to design.
Yes you can claim artistic licence, and as the artists what ever they do is right.
However there is a reason companies like Ferrari don't turn there cars backwards when they're bored.
I'm glad all 5 of you now have chimed in with a like. I understand now why you still see the odd Pontiac Aztek, PT cruiser, or cube on the road. Some people simply have poor taste.
lol...you're just clearly ignoring everything everyone has to say...like a 5 year old plugging their ears and going "Nah nah nah nah nah! I'm right and your wrong!"
First off the devs made it the way they saw fit, it takes some design queues from the D'kora...which you're obviously ignoring...they even said they designed it after a Trilobite...which I'd say it does resemble one.
So either you're a 5 year old or you want them to change it because you want a T6 D'kora...either way it's not going backwards not matter how much you plug your ears and stick your tongue out and ignore everyone who tells you different...even the designers of said ship.
Hmm, I generally don't agree with you much lianthelia, but this time I have to say you nailed it. There is no such thing as 100% right/wrong when designing things for games, it is all a matter of opinion, and as such varies wildly.
Personally I do think the Nandi does look a bit light in the trunk. But it is a space vehicle, so it doesn't have to be balanced for weight, it is also Ferengi, and definately looks the part.
I'll likely continue to think it a bit odd for a while, that is, until I finally get used to flying around this... exotic ship.
I'm not plugging my ears. I'm pointing out the obvious. It clearly looks wrong to almost everyone that sees it move the first time. Yes it has lots of Ferengi ques. As I have said earlier they got it right, minus the orientation, which is very wrong. The Television Trek Designers based many models on life forms, and decided to flip many of them backwards. This is a case where Cryptic should have just followed CBS/Paramount and flipped their design the right way.
For the same reason a sports car would look wrong if it was flipped around, the nandi looks wrong.
A Ferrari, Porsche or Jag would still look good backwards when they where parked, they would look stupid driving in reverse.
Anyway, Don't let your head blow up. It's not that big a deal. I may laugh at people who bought PT Cruisers behind their backs. That doesn't mean I judge their worth as people. If you like it have fun.
In fact, if it was the opposite, I'd find it weird. And if I only saw the D'Kora from above, I'd find it weird to have the crescent pointing that way, but when you consider the whole shape seen from above, front and sides, it makes sense.
That's the same thing for the Nandi, when you take above, front and sides together, it makes sense for me.
As for the "there is a 100% right/wrong design", just no.
A nice example? The Reliant from ST II.
When the designer sent the drawing to Harve Bennett, Bennett read it upside down and actually liked it. 2 people interpreted the design differently and none of them was wrong or right.
So...what you're trying to say is it doesn't look good flying the way it does? That's a shade different then saying it's flying backwards...
So which is it? You don't like the way it flies or you're trying to tell the creators who can do what ever they want with their creation that they did it wrong? Then I guess the D'kora is flying backwards too...
I don't know...if it was backwards it would be a T6 D'kora practically...maybe the OP wants a T6 D'kora.
The Nandi has the same 2 pronged forward hull and has the same pronged nacelles...the reason I could see anyone thinking it's backwards is the sorta rebel alliance insignia shape...which is towards the back now...now if the OP is trying to say the defining characteristic is that shape then that doesn't leave many options for Ferengi ships...also the shuttle and ENT ship don't fit that shape at all.
The OP can't have it every which way...it can't follow basic Ferengi design by all ships and then only judge it against the D'kora...
Is it too much of a job cryptic, to flip the wings over, so the ship becomes similar to the d'kora???
That will solve the problem, which needs to be urgently looked at and not just left and abandoned.
Regards the Nandi,Is the bridge the same as the d'kora? bank, exchange and mail onboard????
Is the bridge appearance the same as a d'kora????
Urgently looked at? Why? Because that's how you want it?
So let me get this straight...it's flying backwards because you want the wings a different way?
I completely agree in every way with everything you just said. Completely. You are correct.
...
...
...
BACKWARDS!
BACKWARDS! BACKWARDS!
BACKWARDS! BACKWARDS! BACKWARDS!
But reading this thread and all I can think about is the X-29 :-)
Grummen x-29
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
It's probably photoshopped, it shoudn't even be able to fly with wings like that!
But it does, and is extremely manoeuvrable. Same as this lovely prototype bird: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47
It's just difficult to make such planes work at higher speeds and loads.
EDIT: And I fully back the artists on both the Nandi and the Benthan ship. On screen, the Benthan ship was barely visible (and could have been moving backwards in the shot), using the creator's original plan was sound.
And while I personally don't like the look of the Nandi, it has same basic parts as the D'Kora: Large curved windowed part at the back, smaller slightly forked head in the front and two pincers facing forward on either side.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
But wait, aren't the Cardassian ships flying backwards ????
It is an alien ship after all, keep in mind that there is a good chance the Ferengi look at Birds of Prey and say "Why are the wings facing the wrong direction?" as well.
You might want to also consider that the ship might not be 100% ferengi inspiried. They are making the ship special order for the Risians, so it might be a Ferengi perspective on Risian ship design and the two styles clash a little.
P.S. I am ok with the Nandi how it is.
Look at the Chimera with the big gut, or the Lego ship...then look at the Pathfinder, which I think feels like a real progression in design.
The Corvette and the other one are cool and quirky, but the Nandi just isn't very fun and for the Summer Event, it should be camp as Christmas...like a Ferengi casino ship, or a holosuite ship (like in Insurrection).
Not a lot of people will fly an event ship all year round, but a novelty is always fun to break out of spacedock when you're bored and to have a lark.
Ooh, now I've mentioned a casino ship, obviously with latinum skin, that would be fun to take into STF...
Imagine if someone took a connie, flipped which way it flies and called it a new ship design.
That's basically the reaction some people (including myself) had. Add in the fact that wider fronts than backs is a Cardassian design esthetic and the whole thing becomes lamer.
But whatever, I'm not losing any sleep over it and I even have a character who will open the box and see what customization options there are. Some color changes and I can shift my mindset to view it as a Merc ship.
I would so fly a Raptor with inverted wings like that. Feel free to bring that up in the next team meeting.
I felt the same way. To me it feels like they flipped it over backwards as a lazy, look its new design.
I get that some people like it... lots of people don't care for the D'kora. Its just looks wrong to me.
I don't much care either, well I did start the thread. Really what do any of us care this game doesn't have a lot of reasons to play for long periods of time anyway.
As for customization sorry to have to be the one to tell you. There are none. You can paint it with the standard paint all ships have.
The only bit of extra work they did was making sure the Battle mode console transforms it slightly, its a minor transform. Which is good that is the one thing they got right. At least they didn't make the 3000 turn it into the space equivalent of a go-bot. (hows that for a 80s style cheap knock off reference) lol
http://sto.gamepedia.com/SuQob_Raptor
T3 C-store raptor
Sacrilege! The wings go the wrong way. The whole ship is obviously backwards. What lazy design.
/sarcasm