It's great that we are seeing more variation in the spectrum of being Klingon. I believe that each of the species can have very in-depth characters as there are Federation characters. My issues, if you can say I have one, is that if you are introducing something new, please provide some additional background and setting so that it doesn't just stand out like a "sore thumb", but rather it flows fluid and in harmony with the story of the episode presented.
Star Trek didn't always do that, though. In the midst of the Civil Rights and Women's movements, they just had an African female on the bridge, without a bunch of setup like, "Well, there was a time in human history where this would have been taboo, but it's perfectly normal now." That part was just implied. Same thing goes for a the enemy from the last war, a Japanese crew member, and the current enemy, a Russian crew member.They're just there. Things have changed in the future and there's no need to belabor the point by talking about it. In TNG, Worf was just there on the bridge and nobody made any reference to how it was peculiar to have a Klingon serving on a Starfleet vessel for quite some time, it was just something that they threw in front of the audience and expected them to accept as being normal in this setting.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Star Trek didn't always do that, though. In the midst of the Civil Rights and Women's movements, they just had an African female on the bridge, without a bunch of setup like, "Well, there was a time in human history where this would have been taboo, but it's perfectly normal now." That part was just implied. Same thing goes for a the enemy from the last war, a Japanese crew member, and the current enemy, a Russian crew member.They're just there. Things have changed in the future and there's no need to belabor the point by talking about it. In TNG, Worf was just there on the bridge and nobody made any reference to how it was peculiar to have a Klingon serving on a Starfleet vessel for quite some time, it was just something that they threw in front of the audience and expected them to accept as being normal in this setting.
Chekov was added to the crew because of the Pravda article about no Russians on Star Trek.
As for Uhura, the Kirk/Uhura kiss was a big deal, and clearly played out as a set-up: look at the white guy kissing the black woman. it was entirely a statement. Plus she was the telephone operator - a traditional woman's roll at the time. Rand was a secretary. Chapel was a nurse. There was no stereotypes being pushed there. It was what people saw women doing on TV all the time. If the show had gone with the original idea for Number One - a female 1st Officer - that would have been gender breaking and important - and would have been unusual, and people would have wanted to know about it.
And there are too many cultural instanced with Worf and the crew to say that him just being on the bridge was no big deal. People instantly wanted to know why a Klingon was in Starfleet - and it did not take long for them to get the answer.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
What I find interesting about this whole thing is that people are focusing on this single point of a feature episode which, in it's virtual entirety, was bland, poorly acted and slow paced..
IMO House Pegh was possibly the worst Feature Episode I can remember playing and chronicly disappointing given Cryptic's recent endeavours in relation to FE's... Having said that, I did find the interior of the Iconian installation visually fantastic, but the rest of the episode was extremely poor...
If anything, the TRIBBLE relationship featured, aside from being completely unnecessary to the episode's plot and (as others have said) seemingly shoe-horned into the story for no clear reason, was probably only made worse by the remarkably poor and forced acting behind the few lines of dialogue in question and, had it not been so forced, would hardly have drawn attention...
TRIBBLE Klingons? Why not? .. Jadzia (who knows the Klingons like hardly anyone else in Starfleet) once mentioned "The Klingons are as diverse a people as any" .. so there you have it if you need a "canon" source.
"We might get pretty singed at that range, but not as singed as they're going to get. Engage."
- Captain Six of Nine aka Ashley "Don't Call Me Ash" Campbell
Chekov's Gun... Don't hang a gun on the wall unless you intend to see it fired.
So, I ask, why was there any romantic couple involved in this plot? The characters weren't developed, they weren't integral to the story. They were textbook NPCs. Their relationship- and this would've been exactly the same whether they were TRIBBLE or straight- was unnecessary to the plot.
If Cryptic wants to make a social statement, that's fine. Do it somewhere meaningful.
The TRIBBLE klingons are nor more contrived or shoehorned in than if it was a heterosexual couple. Its literally exactly the same, there is nothing extraordinary about TRIBBLE couples, its perfectly normal and not noteworthy.
Same-sex relationships are indeed entirely common and normal in today's society...
That being said, the inclusion of the TRIBBLE couple within House Pegh was entirely contrived and completely unnecessary within the plot of the Feature Episode... It added nothing to the episode in this particular case and just felt like shoddy writing - the sort of shoddy writing I'd expect from fan-fiction or the Foundry IMO...
I really do feel it was shoe-horned into the episode, for no more reason than for Cryptic to pat themselves on the back and get warm fuzzy feelings that they're recognising liberal social issues, by including a cliche TRIBBLE couple - which just happen to be Klingon...
There was no reason why they could not have simply been sisters, or friends since childhood or that Trevana (what ever her name) was simply exceedingly protective out of some sense of duty and honour, or that she simply recognised the strategic importance of her counterpart's knowledge...
Them being in a relationship, and attention being forcibly drawn to that relationship made it feel contrived and as though it was something unnatural and worthy of having attention drawn to it, which kinda flies in the face of same-sex relationships being normal and unremarkable - this is likely due to the generally poor writing of the episode, as I've said...
Chekov's Gun... Don't hang a gun on the wall unless you intend to see it fired.
So, I ask, why was there any romantic couple involved in this plot? The characters weren't developed, they weren't integral to the story. They were textbook NPCs. Their relationship- and this would've been exactly the same whether they were TRIBBLE or straight- was unnecessary to the plot.
If Cryptic wants to make a social statement, that's fine. Do it somewhere meaningful.
This about sums it up... There was no purpose for the relationship to exist within the confines of the episode... It was unnecessary filler that felt like Cryptic were pandering to those with a liberal agenda and allowing them to say "Look! We included a TRIBBLE couple in our latest Feature Episode, see how socially-progressive a company we are!", nothing more...
that TRIBBLE klingon couple was just weird. WEIRD! I dont care what someone does in real life, but there have never been klingon lesbians before - not in any film, not in any series, not in any book, not in any comic, nowhere! and tbh it simply doesnt fit to klingons. at least as long there is no plausible background story to this... this was just kinda awkward, it didnt add anything to the episode.
another weird thing is that toyboy in "the undying" on nimbus 3 - its the same NPC who is leading bug hunt! so during the day he fights bugs on paria 3, and in the night he's doing striptease in a bar... wtf realy...
oh, and ever seen the hooker NPC on risa? guess she will be busy during the next weeks...
but I dont complain, I dont have a problem with a red light freakshow in this game. as cochrane would say "I love a good peep show". at least this stuff is incredible funny!
Chekov was added to the crew because of the Pravda article about no Russians on Star Trek.
As for Uhura, the Kirk/Uhura kiss was a big deal, and clearly played out as a set-up: look at the white guy kissing the black woman. it was entirely a statement. Plus she was the telephone operator - a traditional woman's roll at the time. Rand was a secretary. Chapel was a nurse. There was no stereotypes being pushed there. It was what people saw women doing on TV all the time. If the show had gone with the original idea for Number One - a female 1st Officer - that would have been gender breaking and important - and would have been unusual, and people would have wanted to know about it.
And there are too many cultural instanced with Worf and the crew to say that him just being on the bridge was no big deal. People instantly wanted to know why a Klingon was in Starfleet - and it did not take long for them to get the answer.
The kiss was played up... later, not at her introduction. Worf's Klingon-ness was talked about a lot... later, not at his introduction. So, yes, them simply being on the bridge was no big deal at their introduction, like I said. I was replying to the notion that we needed a build-up on introduction of these characters, when Trek quite often saved any such explorations of why these people were there for far later, as should have been clear by actually reading what I posted, rather than trying to make it into something that it wasn't. It's also very disingenuous to say that a woman of African descent being part of the main cast of an integrated show, regardless of how important her job was, (I guess Sulu and Chekov were just driving the white American guy around, by that same logic) was not pushing a boundary. Julia, with Diahann Carroll, the first show to have an African-American lead, didn't premiere until 2 years after Star Trek. Integrated casts were essentially unheard of in television at the time. Star Trek wasn't a huge step for women's rights, but it did have a female in the main cast who wasn't simply a love interest, or wife or relative of the male stars, which was not common at all, and was a step forward any way that you look at it.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
I'm so glad STO has so few problems with it that we can devote so much player energy to the outrage over the sexual preference of NPCs, and the outrage over the players who outrage over it.
Truly, we have our priorities in order.
it isnt just players involved in the whole bisexual preference. its still a fairly new issue around the planet still. your comment is rather ignorant considering that trek has always been about making the controversy and letting the world confront it. some of which has really turned society on its ignorant head on a few occasions.
the ourage is in general because there is more to it than pixels on a screen. now my position is clear on the sbuject; people are allowed to follow their own path and find love where they see it, even if its with another person of the same gender. but there are those out there who can not comprehend how two women or two men could get into a relationship and then at this point its all discrimination and ignorance.
you cant wash away all that intolerance and blame it on game rage because its just one small issue in the greater argument around the world at this time.
i personally think this bisexual angle has come at the right time but it has not missed that bus and it promotes the inequality of the whole subject, not just on the game but in the real world as well, i want to see this issue take off and force change as trek has done before to society. such intolerance should be removed both in the real world and the game but your blocking the way towards progress.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'm sort of serious in a glib way... combating the sorts of intolerance that irk you, while engaging in your own sorts of intolerance is not a moral high ground, it's a moral parallel.
Of course, the workaround there is that you can try to lead by example, express your own viewpoints with love and peace, and try to win minds over the old fashioned way. End intolerance through tolerance, that's what I say.
In our haste to right every perception of a wrong, we swing swords and fire shots that only serve to deepen wounds and divide. Accept that not everyone will love you, and counter it by loving them. That's how you win. That's how humanity wins.
As for the whole TRIBBLE-straight thing specifically... meh. I think it's a big political hoe-down. I really believe that every human's sexual preference is 'whatever feels good', and the rest is just social conditioning. It does serve as an extremely effective camouflage for the divide and conquer business though; and I think a lot of folks here are jumping right into it. (perhaps myself included)
It is no more contrived, no different at all, from them being a heterosexual couple.
It is no more contrived or shoehorned than if they'd been sisters, or friends since childhood.
There is nothing noteworthy about TRIBBLE relationships that makes them different from any other kind of relationships.
Then why place such emphasis on an unremarkable TRIBBLE relationship, like that shown in the House Pegh dialogue?
The fact that the attention is forcibly drawn to the circumstances of their relationship, without any further baring on the episode's plot what so ever, is what makes it contrived...
Had there been some relevance to the events of the FE, such as one of them dieing (albeit a little cliche), it would have at least given the focus on their relationship some relevance beyond being "Oh look! A TRIBBLE couple!"...
Their relationship even being focused upon is why it comes across as contrived - it marks it as something out of the ordinary and worthy of special focus, when such relationships simply are not, which we do seem to agree on at least...
Cryptic somehow managed to fail the "BECHDEL test". They tried but seems they got it horribly wrong.
2 female characters? Check.
Talk to each other? Check. A rarity for this game, I might add.
About something other than a man? Check.
So, where's the failure?
By the way, the Star Trek series and movies are mostly really bad at the Bechdel test. Voyager passes regularly, but it cheats a bit by having the most important person on the show, the one that everyone has to talk to, be a woman. If Janeway were male, I can't recall a single episode that would have passed.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
We already had these TRIBBLE Klingons in the Spin the Wheel episode where B'Eler mentions her mate. That mission has already been around for over 4 years.
I suppose if one had been the daughter of the other and they were in a sexual relationship it would have made it more edgy! :P Incest and lesbianism... after all, we have to be tolerant! :rolleyes:
Just checking to see where your moral compass ends.
Comments
Star Trek didn't always do that, though. In the midst of the Civil Rights and Women's movements, they just had an African female on the bridge, without a bunch of setup like, "Well, there was a time in human history where this would have been taboo, but it's perfectly normal now." That part was just implied. Same thing goes for a the enemy from the last war, a Japanese crew member, and the current enemy, a Russian crew member.They're just there. Things have changed in the future and there's no need to belabor the point by talking about it. In TNG, Worf was just there on the bridge and nobody made any reference to how it was peculiar to have a Klingon serving on a Starfleet vessel for quite some time, it was just something that they threw in front of the audience and expected them to accept as being normal in this setting.
As for Uhura, the Kirk/Uhura kiss was a big deal, and clearly played out as a set-up: look at the white guy kissing the black woman. it was entirely a statement. Plus she was the telephone operator - a traditional woman's roll at the time. Rand was a secretary. Chapel was a nurse. There was no stereotypes being pushed there. It was what people saw women doing on TV all the time. If the show had gone with the original idea for Number One - a female 1st Officer - that would have been gender breaking and important - and would have been unusual, and people would have wanted to know about it.
And there are too many cultural instanced with Worf and the crew to say that him just being on the bridge was no big deal. People instantly wanted to know why a Klingon was in Starfleet - and it did not take long for them to get the answer.
IMO House Pegh was possibly the worst Feature Episode I can remember playing and chronicly disappointing given Cryptic's recent endeavours in relation to FE's... Having said that, I did find the interior of the Iconian installation visually fantastic, but the rest of the episode was extremely poor...
If anything, the TRIBBLE relationship featured, aside from being completely unnecessary to the episode's plot and (as others have said) seemingly shoe-horned into the story for no clear reason, was probably only made worse by the remarkably poor and forced acting behind the few lines of dialogue in question and, had it not been so forced, would hardly have drawn attention...
Now i need to take a shower just thinking about that!
I dont think there are cabin boys for starships.
About damned time... go get em Cryptic with dat progressive thinking
So, I ask, why was there any romantic couple involved in this plot? The characters weren't developed, they weren't integral to the story. They were textbook NPCs. Their relationship- and this would've been exactly the same whether they were TRIBBLE or straight- was unnecessary to the plot.
If Cryptic wants to make a social statement, that's fine. Do it somewhere meaningful.
Same-sex relationships are indeed entirely common and normal in today's society...
That being said, the inclusion of the TRIBBLE couple within House Pegh was entirely contrived and completely unnecessary within the plot of the Feature Episode... It added nothing to the episode in this particular case and just felt like shoddy writing - the sort of shoddy writing I'd expect from fan-fiction or the Foundry IMO...
I really do feel it was shoe-horned into the episode, for no more reason than for Cryptic to pat themselves on the back and get warm fuzzy feelings that they're recognising liberal social issues, by including a cliche TRIBBLE couple - which just happen to be Klingon...
There was no reason why they could not have simply been sisters, or friends since childhood or that Trevana (what ever her name) was simply exceedingly protective out of some sense of duty and honour, or that she simply recognised the strategic importance of her counterpart's knowledge...
Them being in a relationship, and attention being forcibly drawn to that relationship made it feel contrived and as though it was something unnatural and worthy of having attention drawn to it, which kinda flies in the face of same-sex relationships being normal and unremarkable - this is likely due to the generally poor writing of the episode, as I've said...
This about sums it up... There was no purpose for the relationship to exist within the confines of the episode... It was unnecessary filler that felt like Cryptic were pandering to those with a liberal agenda and allowing them to say "Look! We included a TRIBBLE couple in our latest Feature Episode, see how socially-progressive a company we are!", nothing more...
Given the track record with Klingon related content, I really don't expect much more.
another weird thing is that toyboy in "the undying" on nimbus 3 - its the same NPC who is leading bug hunt! so during the day he fights bugs on paria 3, and in the night he's doing striptease in a bar... wtf realy...
oh, and ever seen the hooker NPC on risa? guess she will be busy during the next weeks...
but I dont complain, I dont have a problem with a red light freakshow in this game. as cochrane would say "I love a good peep show". at least this stuff is incredible funny!
The kiss was played up... later, not at her introduction. Worf's Klingon-ness was talked about a lot... later, not at his introduction. So, yes, them simply being on the bridge was no big deal at their introduction, like I said. I was replying to the notion that we needed a build-up on introduction of these characters, when Trek quite often saved any such explorations of why these people were there for far later, as should have been clear by actually reading what I posted, rather than trying to make it into something that it wasn't. It's also very disingenuous to say that a woman of African descent being part of the main cast of an integrated show, regardless of how important her job was, (I guess Sulu and Chekov were just driving the white American guy around, by that same logic) was not pushing a boundary. Julia, with Diahann Carroll, the first show to have an African-American lead, didn't premiere until 2 years after Star Trek. Integrated casts were essentially unheard of in television at the time. Star Trek wasn't a huge step for women's rights, but it did have a female in the main cast who wasn't simply a love interest, or wife or relative of the male stars, which was not common at all, and was a step forward any way that you look at it.
it isnt just players involved in the whole bisexual preference. its still a fairly new issue around the planet still. your comment is rather ignorant considering that trek has always been about making the controversy and letting the world confront it. some of which has really turned society on its ignorant head on a few occasions.
the ourage is in general because there is more to it than pixels on a screen. now my position is clear on the sbuject; people are allowed to follow their own path and find love where they see it, even if its with another person of the same gender. but there are those out there who can not comprehend how two women or two men could get into a relationship and then at this point its all discrimination and ignorance.
you cant wash away all that intolerance and blame it on game rage because its just one small issue in the greater argument around the world at this time.
i personally think this bisexual angle has come at the right time but it has not missed that bus and it promotes the inequality of the whole subject, not just on the game but in the real world as well, i want to see this issue take off and force change as trek has done before to society. such intolerance should be removed both in the real world and the game but your blocking the way towards progress.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'd like to see intolerance of differing opinions removed... but there I went and messed that up.
I tolerate differing opinions, except those I don't agree with!
Of course, the workaround there is that you can try to lead by example, express your own viewpoints with love and peace, and try to win minds over the old fashioned way. End intolerance through tolerance, that's what I say.
In our haste to right every perception of a wrong, we swing swords and fire shots that only serve to deepen wounds and divide. Accept that not everyone will love you, and counter it by loving them. That's how you win. That's how humanity wins.
As for the whole TRIBBLE-straight thing specifically... meh. I think it's a big political hoe-down. I really believe that every human's sexual preference is 'whatever feels good', and the rest is just social conditioning. It does serve as an extremely effective camouflage for the divide and conquer business though; and I think a lot of folks here are jumping right into it. (perhaps myself included)
Then why place such emphasis on an unremarkable TRIBBLE relationship, like that shown in the House Pegh dialogue?
The fact that the attention is forcibly drawn to the circumstances of their relationship, without any further baring on the episode's plot what so ever, is what makes it contrived...
Had there been some relevance to the events of the FE, such as one of them dieing (albeit a little cliche), it would have at least given the focus on their relationship some relevance beyond being "Oh look! A TRIBBLE couple!"...
Their relationship even being focused upon is why it comes across as contrived - it marks it as something out of the ordinary and worthy of special focus, when such relationships simply are not, which we do seem to agree on at least...
2 female characters? Check.
Talk to each other? Check. A rarity for this game, I might add.
About something other than a man? Check.
So, where's the failure?
By the way, the Star Trek series and movies are mostly really bad at the Bechdel test. Voyager passes regularly, but it cheats a bit by having the most important person on the show, the one that everyone has to talk to, be a woman. If Janeway were male, I can't recall a single episode that would have passed.
Just checking to see where your moral compass ends.