Parsing Rapid Mod, some issues.

thissler

So I went and bought 2 complete sets of Rapid, and Non Rapid Polaron weps. Cheapest where I could get complete sets of all types of cannons and turrets.

First things first. You can proc rapid on all your cannons just by using one turret. Who knew? I sort of took someones word for it and then I was all like....

"well let me test my premise"that rapid is at least INTENDED to make the best of crappy builds like dual cannon DEM type builds. The type of low crit builds that are tops for damage mods and the like. The kind of thing you find on old battle cruisers that can't mount meaningful cannon mods.

And right away I almost forget to test if rapid procs on one weapon, all weapons get the boost.
It does.

Okay so really, issue solved. Put on a couple few turrets with this mod, and you'll be seeing rapid procs on your good cannons with the good mods on them. Done. Finished.

But I PAID for those damn sets and dammit I'm parsing them. Basically I have enough of the same weapon mods to at least say if rapid as a mod is a damage loss of having critical, without considering CANNON mods. In other words I have a good control set, and a rapid set.

Well I'm parsing. Straight up 9% critical chance on my ship status tab. ONE critical chance mod on each of my weapons.

Over the course of 7761[7698] swings, my critical rate was...9%

Well it should be 11% or higher. Overflow from my ACC at 32 to 40 percent bonus should have added SOME measurable increase at least on all the npcs that we're absolutely positive haven't moved in years. Like gates.

Still, no good. Now on some of my shorter 'combats' okay fine there may be some crazy variance. But over the course of 8 k swings shouldn't that have come a little closer into line with expectations?

I'm not using any abilities of my own to change my crit profile, and if other players were using abilities, those should increase my crit rate right?

Thoughts?

virusdancer

Does the same thing happen by any chance with CRF? Perhaps a case of CRF1 for the comparison?

reginamala78

Does it maybe not crit while the [rapid] is active, like how FAW used to be way back when?

rmy1081

when you're done, can you figure out if [rapid] works with RRW? It's a grey area since RRW just casts haste on the firing cycle.

thissler

virusdancer wrote: »

Does the same thing happen by any chance with CRF? Perhaps a case of CRF1 for the comparison?

As I am now up to 17 K swings, using no boff cannon abilities, I can certainly try some abilities and see what happens.

reginamala78 wrote: »

Does it maybe not crit while the [rapid] is active, like how FAW used to be way back when?

So far I've only been parsing my control group of weapons, no [Rapid] mod.

rmy1081 wrote: »

when you're done, can you figure out if [rapid] works with RRW? It's a grey area since RRW just casts haste on the firing cycle.

I could collect the data for sure. And I'm just gonna type out some stuff JUST to get myself clear on what I'm doing, and to catch up anyone that's interested.

Here's what I'm running into. First we don't really have test dummies and second I'm testing for EDIT: [Rapid] logs as Rapid Fire 1 in the combat log. And I suppose it's also important to add that I really can't just parse weapons that only have the [Rapid] mod vs weapons that have no mods but the same rarity. I simply don't have them. So my method (likely a very common one) was to simply get two sets of weapons that were of the same rarity and differed only in critical chance and the rapid mod and record a large amount of data from both under the same set of circumstances.

The thought being that after enough data was collected if there was any meaningful difference between the mods it would show up. If there was none perhaps the mods were equal in value at that level. If there was a difference then one mod had greater value.

So far so good. Well after a few in game events I check my parser as it's sort of human nature to want to make sure I'm actually recording logs, etc. When I do that I see that my critical hits amount to 9%, the same amount as on my ship stats. Well weapon mods are weapon mods and they don't show up in the ship stats, and apparently they aren't working either as they don't show up when I parse.

My abilities that I use are Omega, Delta, Tactical Team. I have Reciprocity on so they step on themselves oftentimes in combat, but they don't directly buff weapon cycles/haste so that's what I run. I have no other abilities or items that I use that can critically hit, and nothing of that sort shows up in my parses.

And that's where I'm at for anyone that wants to check my methods or do their own parsing.

Peace. I'll get to the other parses today and update this thread, thank you for your interest:)

thissler

Really an EDIT, but I wasn't sure if anyone following this thread would catch an edit so here it is.

I have good amount of recent parses that I was doing as I built a new BOP. For instance, those parses show the Omega bug in action. Now there were some curious results for critical chance but at the time as they were going in the right direction (UP) and I didn't have such control on my weapons/abilities and FINALLY as my major weapons don't even have critical chance on them, I sort of said.."Well, this doesn't count."

But I thought if I have enough data, even my non chance weapons will benefit from overflow as I have TONS of accuracy, plus that captain is tactical so there's Alpha in the mix. Results? No dice.

Fire at Will and normal auto fire were at ship stats. Sort of expected for FAW as that doesn't get overflow.

Scatter volley and torpedo spreads were not at expectations. Those expected results include factors such as overflow and added bonus granted the torpedo.

Now that's 20 K swings. And I did make some small changes to increase my base chance during that time.

Anyways.

So it seems like I'm not getting overflow or critical chance on normal auto fire (odd) or FAW (expected). It seems like I am getting it on scatter volley (odd) but not on torpedo spread (expected)

For instance scatter was on average 4% higher than auto fire. Given my huge Acc bonus, sure I can go with that. The torpedo data was a train wreck. Maybe just not enough data? Normal autofire was showing 30%, not out of range of expectations. The spreads were showing 25 and 20 percent. Not as expected. But that's ONLY 1700 total hits so again, maybe not enough data?

Anyway, more coffee and more testing later. Just wanted to add that bit.

thissler

Well it should take forever and a day to get enough data. Rapid on all weapons is translating into a rapid proc that triggers swings equal to between 2 and 3 percent of total swings. And then we're looking at a very small number. Now to look at a variance of a very small number on a very small number....

I'm figuring 100 k should do the trick for certainty.

Gonna be a bit.

EDIT: So far, after about 8 k swings, crits overall are running 7%. Or 2% lower than expected. Same as before. Except this time I have but one weapon with one Crit H mode on it. Almost meaningless. So somewhere somehow It looks like I'm just losing 2% and I'm bad and should feel bad. Bad me.

thissler

Okay I had been using ACT. Now I'm using CLR. And things are different. Things are showing what I would expect them to be. So for now, unless I see some other confirmation, I'll assume this is a parser glitch.

annah

From my (albeit limited) testing with RAPID mod on some DHC was that it would not fire while i had a cannon skill active.

So since i had two copies of CSV1, i only had a 10 second window every 30 secs where it could proc. and with the 2.5% chance, it came so rarely.

OVER mod on Beams seem to do the same, but with 2 FAW you have 20 seconds in a 40 sec window where i can proc, so slightly better chances.

heresincebeta

annah wrote: »

From my (albeit limited) testing with RAPID mod on some DHC was that it would not fire while i had a cannon skill active.

So since i had two copies of CSV1, i only had a 10 second window every 30 secs where it could proc. and with the 2.5% chance, it came so rarely.

OVER mod on Beams seem to do the same, but with 2 FAW you have 20 seconds in a 40 sec window where i can proc, so slightly better chances.

Annah you're not quite right about FAW and the [OVER] mod. Over can proc during FAW, but does not execute until after the FAW cycle completes. OVER only stays in the q a few seconds (4 or 5 iirc) so OVERs that proc early in the FAW cycle are lost, but those that proc towards the end of the cycle trigger.

I suspect (but don't know) if its the same for RAPID mods. If it is, then with RAPID 3 and a pile of RAPID weapons, conceivably you could get 100% RAPID uptime (especially with JHSS trait).