Seriously, three years ago, STO was about putting a good--not uber--team together, learning tactics, and accomplishing a mission. Today, it's become all about 30k DPS, mathematics, and statistical analysis for those that enjoy number crunching...those that I call "Janeways."
We're not all Janeways, developer team. Some are Archers...they like to learn through trial and error, exploration, reasoning, and their "gut." Some are Kirks...really using their gut, courage/bravado, and swagger. Some are Picards...steady players that remain balanced, with imagination and more of a literary approach. Still others are Siskos...firm, pragmatic.
But this game should be able to serve all, not just the Janeways. And it should still be accessible for casual players, not just the hard-core grinders.
How many countless hours of work has the current dev team rendered virtually useless with their new content? Very few run ground STFs anymore, unless they've got a player base/group of friends that enjoy them. There are players who achieve Tier 5 Omega...and have NEVER run an STF.
Remember Nukara? How many players actually visit there anymore, unless it's to pick up their Tier 5 bonus?
The bottom line is that the game is turning into nothing more than an exercise in statistical analysis for those that feel the need to exploit every stat, analyze every function...and many of them...not all, but many...exclude any others who don't see things or play their way. This elitist mentality erodes the community of players that this game used to be. Now people have to "prove" their worth in the game by achieving a certain level of DPS, or they're not allowed into the good-ole-boy network of the 30K and over crowd.
How many players ACTUALLY PLAY the Elite levels? I'm guessing you'll find less than ten percent of the STO community even attempts it, and most of that ten percent tends to stick only with what they consider their "equals." What is the point of creating content that most of your player base cannot accomplish?
If the new EP and the devs are truly listening, they need to make the game and its endgame content accessible, and achievable, by more than a small percentage of the player base. A handful of those with all Legendary gear shouldn't determine the fate of all. The increase in NPC abilities that's coming will only enhance this problem
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
Oh please. If we were janeways, we would have developed guns that shoot everywhere in the universe at once.
Aaaand then we would naturally totally forget this. Because having a surefire cure for the aftereffect somehow means we should not use it.
I like to run the odd ISA, it's something different to add in to the mix of what I'm doing and I generally find it to be fun.
Player A) 11992 DPS
Player 10357 DPS
Player C) 5758 DPS
Player D) 4612 DPS
Player E) 4468 DPS
It took 16 minutes and 6 seconds or so...and there was even some time to spare there with the Optional (the 15 minute Optional countdown doesn't start until after the first engagement completes). The group did around 37190 DPS as a whole...the Borg themselves did around 10409 DPS back at us. Player B died twice, Player C once, and Player E twice as well.
Hrmm, that last bit might help to look at the BaseDamageIn, ActualDamageIn, %ofBaseDamageIn, HealOut, HealIn, and %HealInvsOut...eh?
Player A) 4921861 / 1320693 / ~26.8% / 2882416 / 2758176 / ~95.7%
Player 1897561 / 733444 / ~38.7% / 590432 / 1100379 / ~186.4%
Player C) 3237724 / 1672018 / ~51.6% / 689610 / 1107400 / ~160.6%
Player D) 1147472 / 418759 / ~36.5% / 371938 / 742226 / ~199.6%
Player E) 553624 / 285618 / ~51.6% / 95048 / 277989 / ~292.5%
Or maybe that didn't help much at all in actually looking at it, meh?
Probably should have just looked at what caused the boom, yeah?
Player B's first death appears to have been from the DoT from a Plasma Torpedo - so there was likely the boom from that actual Torp that put them in danger. Their second death was actually a 27k+ boom from a Plasma Torp.
Player C's death came from a 33k+ boom from a Plasma Torp.
Player E was fragged by a Plasma Beam Array hit and 6k hit from a Plasma Torp.
So nobody was quite 1-shot or the like, and it would require popping open the log in Notepad++ to hunt down what led up to those deaths, etc, etc, etc..
But I'm not even sure why I got into that bit, guess the incoming damage part would play into what folks have said about it being tougher - and well - the NPCs just don't do the damage that players do - remember that 10409 the NPCs did was at everything - not to any specific player. How about the outgoing vs. incoming DPS with the % of incoming compared to outgoing, yeah?
Player A) 11992 / 1387 / ~11.6%
Player 10357 / 775 / ~7.5%
Player C) 5758 / 1758 / ~30.5%
Player D) 4612 / 433 / ~9.4%
Player E) 4468 / 306 / ~6.8%
And well yeah, even though there five deaths from players - the NPCs just really aren't the threat that the players are to the NPCs. Cause the players blew up the Gateway, a Tac Cube, 3x Cubes, 8x Nanite Spheres, 18x Spheres, as well as the 8x Nanite Generators and 2x Nanite Transformers. The deck is basically stacked against the NPCs...they're just waiting to be farmed/slaughtered.
But yeah, anyway, back to the complaints about the damage requirements and so forth. That random group put out ~37k total to complete successfully an Advanced queue and even to nab the Optional with time to spare. There are 385 folks on the DPS League Table for ISA that have recorded 37k+ DPS individually. So hrmm, yeah, don't think that Cryptic's gone and made things harder in anyway for those folks...Hell, there are 21 folks there that have recorded twice that amount.
So with it being an Advanced queue where the Optional was met, it would go from just a thing of some Advanced folks running it to a case of the Advanced of the Advanced, mayhaps even Elite, because the Optional was also met, yeah? Hrmm, where does that leave all those other folks? There are 2479 folks on the table that have recorded half the group's total (18.5k). But who cares, right? That's Cryptic's problem, no? Our wee group, according to the requirements Cryptic set forth for the content...we rocked, we were bad TRIBBLE mofos kicking the Borg's butts.
Here are the numbers for the group from the #1 guy there on the DPS League Table...
Player A) 120173
Player 60684
Player C) 59364
Player D) 32495
Player E) 26168
Group) 298884
And...who cares? Well, they care, and it's pretty damn impressive - have to give mad props. They did the run in 1 minute and 57 seconds.
But according to Cryptic, our wee group doing ~37k and taking 16 minutes to do it...we rocked, successful and the Optional in an Advanced queue, baby!
Which, well, kind of comes off odd, yeah? Was it really an Advanced group? Just some average group?
Cause although certain DPSers would just knock themselves out cold from the /facepalms at what I've said here; well, there are going to be folks that point to this same wee group and call us a bunch of Elitist Douche Nozzles...funny, eh?
Cause there folks that want to do 1-2k DPS and believe that should allow them to do Advanced and even nab the Optional...and well, anybody that can do it must obviously be some group of EDNs, eh?
It all just comes off as folks caring too much about what other folks have rather than what they're looking to do and can do, eh? That #1 guy, he rocks - you could sit me down at his computer so everything was the same, his build, his group, his hardware, everything...and I'd be such an epic /failgasm that folks probably couldn't watch the vid of it for more than two seconds - it would just be "Oh the humanity!" and that would be that. I know that. I'm not going to get all green jellybean about it - I'll just give him the mad props for doing it and then go back to putzing around like I normally do. But what it does show is potential in the game...so when a group is doing an Advanced like my group did, and that's what Cryptic considers Advanced, Advanced-Advanced, near-Elite, or the like...well, for the folks that are complaining and calling us EDNs...maybe if they spent half a sec to look at what they were doing, they'd be rocking with us doing stuff rather than looking at what those magical guys are doing and complaining, eh?
This ramble brought to you unofficially by Diet Mountain Dew.
I completely agree with the OP on all points and am saddened by the ridiculous flaming of his very reasonable request for the game to remain a GAME - for FUN.
I'm an Archer btw.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I completely agree with the OP on all points and am saddened by the ridiculous flaming of his very reasonable request for the game to remain a GAME - for FUN.
I'm an Archer btw.
Now here's the funny part, imho. You state you're an Archer, right? So you've acknowledged that there are different types out there, right? But with there being different types, you don't see how those different types might have fun in different ways even though in seeing those different types that's what you're seeing?
It's like saying that you understand that Apples, Oranges, and Bananas are all fruits but saying that Apples and Bananas aren't fruits because you like Oranges...at the same time.
So if one wanted to talk about ridiculous...well...
Now here's the funny part, imho. You state you're an Archer, right? So you've acknowledged that there are different types out there, right? But with there being different types, you don't see how those different types might have fun in different ways even though in seeing those different types that's what you're seeing?
It's like saying that you understand that Apples, Oranges, and Bananas are all fruits but saying that Apples and Bananas aren't fruits because you like Oranges...at the same time.
So if one wanted to talk about ridiculous...well...
Both myself and the OP want a game where everyone has fun their way.
BTW, I can run elite STFs and contribute fine on my low dps command cruiser just by drawing fire and throwing out buffs. my ship might not do high damage but it can sure take it.
Whoever said DPS is everything is smoking something funny.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Both myself and the OP want a game where everyone has fun their way.
BTW, I can run elite STFs and contribute fine on my low dps command cruiser just by drawing fire and throwing out buffs. my ship might not do high damage but it can sure take it.
Whoever said DPS is everything is smoking something funny.
But that's the thing, there are folks having fun in the game...by saying that fun needs to return to the game, suggests that's not the case. The OP starts off with insults hurled at folks.
There are all sorts of things that all sorts of folks can potentially enjoy in the game - but doesn't mean that if something that somebody else enjoys is something they...ugh, too many pronouns...let me try this again.
Tom likes X.
Jerry likes Y.
Spike likes Z.
Tom wants to do Y, but Y is Y and not X. So Tom tries to get Y changed so it is X. X already existed, no? Why doesn't Tom just do that X, yeah? Same with Tom wanting to do Z, eh? If Tom likes X, do X...that way Jerry can enjoy Y and Spike can enjoy Z.
As for the person talking about DPS being everything and so forth...that would be the OP that you agreed with there....er...the game no longer being fun because of all the Janeways doing the statistical analysis of their DPS epeens and so forth...er...
Seriously, three years ago, STO was about putting a good--not uber--team together, learning tactics, and accomplishing a mission. Today, it's become all about 30k DPS, mathematics, and statistical analysis for those that enjoy number crunching...those that I call "Janeways."
With all due respect, I think this is a massive exaggeration. While STO can be very complex, it doesn't have to be if you don't want it to be. You can fully level a character and play 99% of the game's content with the gear you get just from mission rewards. You don't have to be a DPS expert to play this game. I'm not, and I can do pretty much anything I want.
If the new EP and the devs are truly listening, they need to make the game and its endgame content accessible, and achievable, by more than a small percentage of the player base. A handful of those with all Legendary gear shouldn't determine the fate of all. The increase in NPC abilities that's coming will only enhance this problem
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
One thing you can be sure of is that they are looking at the numbers and are designing content based on what they see. If they see on the back end that most people can't complete what they are designing, they will change it. They aren't idiots; they know this is a business and they are already catering to whatever their numbers show them in relation to what the majority of their customers are playing.
People have a tendency to think that their own opinion somehow represents the majority, but that is not necessarily true. I think this thread is just an example of that mistaken reasoning.
HEY, knock it off, I've got one of those. I use it when I cut my hair.
To the OP...
I can't agree with much of your post. I am not an "Ace" captain, but know my limitations.
I can "PUG" normal and have a blast, or stay alert and nervous, and get through advanced.
On elite, I stay terrified and hug the flank of the nearest "Ace" captain, (not hard to spot them)
doing as they do, or as they tell me to do. This in a T5U Excelsior with VR Mk XII to XIV
equipment.
Point being that if I can manage this, believe me, anyone can. But I keep my expectations
of the three levels of difficulty seperate. They are what they are, and I don't, and would not
expect normal to play like elite. If for no other reason for the sake of those "Ace" skippers
who surely have the mindset for elite, as I do for normal.
Comments
Oh please. If we were janeways, we would have developed guns that shoot everywhere in the universe at once.
Aaaand then we would naturally totally forget this. Because having a surefire cure for the aftereffect somehow means we should not use it.
Normal does not teach the tactics needed for advanced, it just show you the layout. :rolleyes:
A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
Player A) 11992 DPS
Player
Player C) 5758 DPS
Player D) 4612 DPS
Player E) 4468 DPS
It took 16 minutes and 6 seconds or so...and there was even some time to spare there with the Optional (the 15 minute Optional countdown doesn't start until after the first engagement completes). The group did around 37190 DPS as a whole...the Borg themselves did around 10409 DPS back at us. Player B died twice, Player C once, and Player E twice as well.
Hrmm, that last bit might help to look at the BaseDamageIn, ActualDamageIn, %ofBaseDamageIn, HealOut, HealIn, and %HealInvsOut...eh?
Player A) 4921861 / 1320693 / ~26.8% / 2882416 / 2758176 / ~95.7%
Player
Player C) 3237724 / 1672018 / ~51.6% / 689610 / 1107400 / ~160.6%
Player D) 1147472 / 418759 / ~36.5% / 371938 / 742226 / ~199.6%
Player E) 553624 / 285618 / ~51.6% / 95048 / 277989 / ~292.5%
Or maybe that didn't help much at all in actually looking at it, meh?
Probably should have just looked at what caused the boom, yeah?
Player B's first death appears to have been from the DoT from a Plasma Torpedo - so there was likely the boom from that actual Torp that put them in danger. Their second death was actually a 27k+ boom from a Plasma Torp.
Player C's death came from a 33k+ boom from a Plasma Torp.
Player E was fragged by a Plasma Beam Array hit and 6k hit from a Plasma Torp.
So nobody was quite 1-shot or the like, and it would require popping open the log in Notepad++ to hunt down what led up to those deaths, etc, etc, etc..
But I'm not even sure why I got into that bit, guess the incoming damage part would play into what folks have said about it being tougher - and well - the NPCs just don't do the damage that players do - remember that 10409 the NPCs did was at everything - not to any specific player. How about the outgoing vs. incoming DPS with the % of incoming compared to outgoing, yeah?
Player A) 11992 / 1387 / ~11.6%
Player
Player C) 5758 / 1758 / ~30.5%
Player D) 4612 / 433 / ~9.4%
Player E) 4468 / 306 / ~6.8%
And well yeah, even though there five deaths from players - the NPCs just really aren't the threat that the players are to the NPCs. Cause the players blew up the Gateway, a Tac Cube, 3x Cubes, 8x Nanite Spheres, 18x Spheres, as well as the 8x Nanite Generators and 2x Nanite Transformers. The deck is basically stacked against the NPCs...they're just waiting to be farmed/slaughtered.
But yeah, anyway, back to the complaints about the damage requirements and so forth. That random group put out ~37k total to complete successfully an Advanced queue and even to nab the Optional with time to spare. There are 385 folks on the DPS League Table for ISA that have recorded 37k+ DPS individually. So hrmm, yeah, don't think that Cryptic's gone and made things harder in anyway for those folks...Hell, there are 21 folks there that have recorded twice that amount.
So with it being an Advanced queue where the Optional was met, it would go from just a thing of some Advanced folks running it to a case of the Advanced of the Advanced, mayhaps even Elite, because the Optional was also met, yeah? Hrmm, where does that leave all those other folks? There are 2479 folks on the table that have recorded half the group's total (18.5k). But who cares, right? That's Cryptic's problem, no? Our wee group, according to the requirements Cryptic set forth for the content...we rocked, we were bad TRIBBLE mofos kicking the Borg's butts.
Here are the numbers for the group from the #1 guy there on the DPS League Table...
Player A) 120173
Player
Player C) 59364
Player D) 32495
Player E) 26168
Group) 298884
And...who cares? Well, they care, and it's pretty damn impressive - have to give mad props. They did the run in 1 minute and 57 seconds.
But according to Cryptic, our wee group doing ~37k and taking 16 minutes to do it...we rocked, successful and the Optional in an Advanced queue, baby!
Which, well, kind of comes off odd, yeah? Was it really an Advanced group? Just some average group?
Cause although certain DPSers would just knock themselves out cold from the /facepalms at what I've said here; well, there are going to be folks that point to this same wee group and call us a bunch of Elitist Douche Nozzles...funny, eh?
Cause there folks that want to do 1-2k DPS and believe that should allow them to do Advanced and even nab the Optional...and well, anybody that can do it must obviously be some group of EDNs, eh?
It all just comes off as folks caring too much about what other folks have rather than what they're looking to do and can do, eh? That #1 guy, he rocks - you could sit me down at his computer so everything was the same, his build, his group, his hardware, everything...and I'd be such an epic /failgasm that folks probably couldn't watch the vid of it for more than two seconds - it would just be "Oh the humanity!" and that would be that. I know that. I'm not going to get all green jellybean about it - I'll just give him the mad props for doing it and then go back to putzing around like I normally do. But what it does show is potential in the game...so when a group is doing an Advanced like my group did, and that's what Cryptic considers Advanced, Advanced-Advanced, near-Elite, or the like...well, for the folks that are complaining and calling us EDNs...maybe if they spent half a sec to look at what they were doing, they'd be rocking with us doing stuff rather than looking at what those magical guys are doing and complaining, eh?
This ramble brought to you unofficially by Diet Mountain Dew.
I'm an Archer btw.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Now here's the funny part, imho. You state you're an Archer, right? So you've acknowledged that there are different types out there, right? But with there being different types, you don't see how those different types might have fun in different ways even though in seeing those different types that's what you're seeing?
It's like saying that you understand that Apples, Oranges, and Bananas are all fruits but saying that Apples and Bananas aren't fruits because you like Oranges...at the same time.
So if one wanted to talk about ridiculous...well...
Both myself and the OP want a game where everyone has fun their way.
BTW, I can run elite STFs and contribute fine on my low dps command cruiser just by drawing fire and throwing out buffs. my ship might not do high damage but it can sure take it.
Whoever said DPS is everything is smoking something funny.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
But that's the thing, there are folks having fun in the game...by saying that fun needs to return to the game, suggests that's not the case. The OP starts off with insults hurled at folks.
There are all sorts of things that all sorts of folks can potentially enjoy in the game - but doesn't mean that if something that somebody else enjoys is something they...ugh, too many pronouns...let me try this again.
Tom likes X.
Jerry likes Y.
Spike likes Z.
Tom wants to do Y, but Y is Y and not X. So Tom tries to get Y changed so it is X. X already existed, no? Why doesn't Tom just do that X, yeah? Same with Tom wanting to do Z, eh? If Tom likes X, do X...that way Jerry can enjoy Y and Spike can enjoy Z.
As for the person talking about DPS being everything and so forth...that would be the OP that you agreed with there....er...the game no longer being fun because of all the Janeways doing the statistical analysis of their DPS epeens and so forth...er...
With all due respect, I think this is a massive exaggeration. While STO can be very complex, it doesn't have to be if you don't want it to be. You can fully level a character and play 99% of the game's content with the gear you get just from mission rewards. You don't have to be a DPS expert to play this game. I'm not, and I can do pretty much anything I want.
One thing you can be sure of is that they are looking at the numbers and are designing content based on what they see. If they see on the back end that most people can't complete what they are designing, they will change it. They aren't idiots; they know this is a business and they are already catering to whatever their numbers show them in relation to what the majority of their customers are playing.
People have a tendency to think that their own opinion somehow represents the majority, but that is not necessarily true. I think this thread is just an example of that mistaken reasoning.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Try this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g59tR5FYg08
(and yeah, I have no idea why he had 3 Engineering teams).
The game is absurdly casual compared to those days.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse