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borg tachyon beam/HP

sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
ok,

this beam was funny 2 minutes, but please nerf it again; this tachyon beam is just ridiculous; even my fed sci with power insulator filled + special gears with "resist shield drain" can't resist more than 3 seconds.

And you can be targeted simultaneously, or within a few seconds apart with an other tachyon beam.


And about mobs HP, this is ridiculous too: spheres and Bop (in cure advanced) have more hp than a cube.

IF, this is supposed to be funny or a challenge, you have failed.

and i don't even speak about the Tholian recluse in cca, which has crazy hitpoints
Post edited by sennahcherib on
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Comments

  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    heh, the tholians... it's faster to kill the crystal than the recluse in cca...


    I fight the borg assuming i will have no shields. It's a good strategy. try it.

    (remodulate shields is what I use to recover shields)
  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I am not trying to be condisending but you know there is counter to the drain. Just use science team as soon as it hits. Unfortunelty I am on the other side of the fence. I love the buff to NPCs , now all these high DPS runs people have have to have heals. What a concept. A balanced build. I don't know your build or your play style but this is a good buff for players and NPCs.

    Just to let you know I had to add an extra shield heal to my build and move some doffs around, but my DPS has gone up with the build. That is with removing an offisive power and the plasma dropping fixes active. I average 34k as a science in a science ship.

    I would be more than willing to help with any suggestions if you use the STO academy skill and ship builder.
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  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Eh? Sci Team doesn't negate Tachyon Beam.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You just have to survive the few seconds it takes all of the Spheres to blow their wad and use up their Tachyon Beams.

    After that, just pop your shield heals and bring your shields back up.

    The Spheres should be dead by the time their TachBeams come off CD. If not, your BFI/hull heals should be back up by the time the Spheres hit you again.

    Its not hard to survive it, really. I can tank it in my Tac FPE-r. Just don't expect to be able to use the same roflstomp DPS builds all the time, for everything. You'll have to make a few changes to your build. The Samsar console is a godsend against the Spheres.
  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    darkjeff wrote: »
    Eh? Sci Team doesn't negate Tachyon Beam.

    Sorry was thinking of hazard emitters. It clears drains. Also the Borg use a power called Borg shield neutralizer. Here is a link for sto wiki bout HE canceling it's effect.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Hazard_Emitters
    320x240.jpg
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    There is counter to the drain. Just use science team as soon as it hits.

    Sci Team just heals the damage afterwards but doesn't do anything about hard-countering the drain itself. To my knowledge there are no hard counters to tachyon beam. There are ways around it or quick-healing after it certainly, but the only thing that works against the drain itself is a lot of Power Insulators (and maybe the Delta Rep shield; desc says it does, but I don't own one so not sure). Really sucks if you're a shield tank, and even hull tanking only goes so far given how hard borg torps hit.
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Sorry was thinking of hazard emitters. It clears drains. Also the Borg use a power called Borg shield neutralizer. Here is a link for sto wiki bout HE canceling it's effect.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Hazard_Emitters


    Yeah, Hazard Emitters are one of the most useful defensive buffs you can have.

    Add that with a Kobali set and you're golden...
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  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I've starting using Aux to inertia dampners as nothing negates the sheild drain, so having decent kinetic resistance is a must for those Borg plasma torps, seems to work ok on surviving without shields, well at least until i can get them back up again to allow for some quick hull healing before i'm stripped of shields again.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I've starting using Aux to inertia dampners as nothing negates the sheild drain, so having decent kinetic resistance is a must for those Borg plasma torps, seems to work ok on surviving without shields, well at least until i can get them back up again to allow for some quick hull healing before i'm stripped of shields again.

    Use it's DOff (search for Matter/Antimatter on the Exchnage) with it, it's highly underrated and exceptionally useful.

    It extends the duration of the Aux to ID buff so there's only a few seconds of downtime (even with some overlap if you use 2 copies of the skill) and gives you a massive Energy resistance buff. 30 at blue, 40 at purple.
  • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Buffing hull resists to deal with shield draining tactics instead of nerfing NPCs is a good thing.

    Armor consoles exist for a reason.
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    Buffing hull resists to deal with shield draining tactics instead of nerfing NPCs is a good thing.

    Armor consoles exist for a reason.

    Armor consoles make next to no difference on ships that are already at a 50% resist. The scaling lets you hit the point of basically no gain way too fast.
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  • wen1503wen1503 Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Overwhelm emitters works like a champ. I run the two lower copies and grab aggro with bfaw and 6 points in threat. Still pull high 20's in pugs so I'm not just tanking. Tactical Command cruiser, engineer main.

    I welcome the tachyon beam changes.

    Borg on advanced are not an issue.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Armor consoles make next to no difference on ships that are already at a 50% resist. The scaling lets you hit the point of basically no gain way too fast.

    Regardless, the resists will protect your hull from whatever is getting to it after you got slammed by half a dozen spheres doing tachyon beam.

    However you get those resists is up to you. Nukara Defense, Skillboxes, Armor Consoles, Bonus, Hazard Emitters, ASIF, PH. Tons of things you could have somewhere in a build to get you some protection. If your hull resists sits at something like 30 or higher, that's more than enough to slow the bleeding.

    And that's on top of the HE helping you out on Hazards.

    With good resists I can ride out the shields being lost and save the HE for the higher end Plasma Burns.

    This whole "OMG Borg Tachyon Beam" thing is silly if you know what to do. It's just this game never had pushed hazards, debuffs, etc on any truly meaningful scale on players before. Now that there is actually something doing so with a bit of teeth to it, people are crying on these boards like someone just took their lunch money.

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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    wen1503 wrote: »
    Overwhelm emitters works like a champ. I run the two lower copies and grab aggro with bfaw and 6 points in threat. Still pull high 20's in pugs so I'm not just tanking. Tactical Command cruiser, engineer main.

    Which doesn't do much good for people who are flying something with a thinner hull and limited engineering resources. If youre sci and throw out a Grav Well, or a raider throwing out a quick decloak AOE strike, or any kind of non-tanky ship where if you aren't preemptively ticking off a large group of enemies you aren't really doing your job, but by the same token you have no defense against this current buff. Everything in this game needs to be counterable by all ship classes in some; personally I'd just be happy if Sci Team was a functional hard counter with the 5-second immunity the way it works against some other abilities, with the NPCs otherwise keeping the high-powered Tachyons. But right now its a bit of a mess.

    Also, for people saying HE counters Tachyon, get a friend for a sorta 1v1, have them hit you with Tachyon while you're waiting to activate HE a split-second later (not after 3 seconds, but immediately), then watch your shields keep draining anyways. Tachyon Beam is not a hazard in the game-mechanics sense, and HE doesn't do anything. (I thought this argument had been settled?)
  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Maybe a dev needs to look at this. STO Wiki claims He will clear the borg version, i disagree with HE being the source fo the use. It is a shield debuff that should be clears by ST. Maybe with enough traction Borticus will see this and let us know how it is suppose to work. I agree that everything should have a counter.

    People need to remeber that the borg use a power called Borg Shield Neutralizer. I have been told that it comes from tac cubes and the gates, cannot verifiy. Will do some testing. I am curious if spheres use same power of do they use tachyon beam. In order to test we might have problems because drains dont show up inany combat reader, might have to dig throught logs manually.
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  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Maybe a dev needs to look at this. STO Wiki claims He will clear the borg version, i disagree with HE being the source fo the use. It is a shield debuff that should be clears by ST. Maybe with enough traction Borticus will see this and let us know how it is suppose to work. I agree that everything should have a counter.

    People need to remeber that the borg use a power called Borg Shield Neutralizer. I have been told that it comes from tac cubes and the gates, cannot verifiy. Will do some testing. I am curious if spheres use same power of do they use tachyon beam. In order to test we might have problems because drains dont show up inany combat reader, might have to dig throught logs manually.

    Spheres most distinctly use Tachyon Beam, you can see the animation, and it's different form the Borg Shield Neutralizer animation.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

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  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Spheres most distinctly use Tachyon Beam, you can see the animation, and it's different form the Borg Shield Neutralizer animation.

    I will have to pay attention to this, thanks. I dont understand why people are having issues witht here shields draining so bad. I keep three shields heals on my sci and between EPts1, ST1, and TSS1 they usually always stay up. I think people need to look at there shields regen rate, power levels, shield type, and builds. I would love to see this change stay, coulld be the first chage to curb the dps power creep.
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  • kozar2kozar2 Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It's the Borg people they are supposed to rip your shields apart and start carving up your hull. That's what they did to every ship in every ST series ever. They should be tough!
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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    i don't hate the tachyon beam, but this is not interesting. And when you have created a build to counter its effects and that nothing works; i'm just disappointed.

    build done for my sci captain: my others characters share some parts of this build:

    she uses the vesta (eng)

    - nukara 2 pieces
    - cc deflector
    - 2 fleet neutronium (i have added 1, because 1 wasn't enough)
    - prtg embassy consoles (3, i had 4; 1 removed and replaced by the neutronium)
    - 2nd deflector (em-prtg)
    - nukara console

    + power insulator filled

    i'm not against the tachyon beam, it is ok when you fight 1 sphere; But when you have 2-3 or more spheres on your back; the tachyon beam is OP. I can counter easily 1 tachyon beam but not 2, at few seconds apart.

    it is just impossible to regenerate your shields.

    +, in my opnion; the Borg are currently ridiculous, in the tv show they were scary. I would like to see them in game more smart. And why not, a new space skill; a skill which could begun to assimilate your ship, with a nice animation on our ships.

    Cubes in "borg disconnected" are more interesting, they act like in the tv show.

    Iconians will be maybe great; but the Borg need really something more, than their current status. they are not iconian, but iconic
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    edited March 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I will have to pay attention to this, thanks. I dont understand why people are having issues witht here shields draining so bad. I keep three shields heals on my sci and between EPts1, ST1, and TSS1 they usually always stay up. I think people need to look at there shields regen rate, power levels, shield type, and builds. I would love to see this change stay, coulld be the first chage to curb the dps power creep.

    Watch for a blue beam when your shields start disappearing. A green pulsing, shrinking circle is the shield neutralizer.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    Sorry was thinking of hazard emitters. It clears drains. Also the Borg use a power called Borg shield neutralizer. Here is a link for sto wiki bout HE canceling it's effect.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Hazard_Emitters

    And Hazard Emitters does nothing about Tachyon Beam.


    Which isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

    Sadly enough however, a Borg Cube still can be blown up in less than 10 seconds by an escort. The second cube might just be a bit harder since you're doing it without shields. Time to learn the value of non-offensive buffs.
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  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I would love to see this change stay, coulld be the first chage to curb the dps power creep.
    The issue is when you stack the ability. It was the same problem with putting EPtE on the spheres. Borg are possibly the most obvious example of this issue, due to their limited variety of vessels.

    What Cryptic should do is put the time into generating some variety in NPC builds. So that not all spheres have EPtE, or TB, or whatever other innocuous ability becomes annoying/frustrating when stacked 10x.
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  • alex284alex284 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    I am not trying to be condisending but you know there is counter to the drain. Just use science team as soon as it hits. Unfortunelty I am on the other side of the fence. I love the buff to NPCs , now all these high DPS runs people have have to have heals. What a concept. A balanced build. I don't know your build or your play style but this is a good buff for players and NPCs.

    Just to let you know I had to add an extra shield heal to my build and move some doffs around, but my DPS has gone up with the build. That is with removing an offisive power and the plasma dropping fixes active. I average 34k as a science in a science ship.

    I would be more than willing to help with any suggestions if you use the STO academy skill and ship builder.

    I'm pretty sure they're not running extra heals, especially since the new tachyon beam means that shields are worthless in these missions. An extra heal when you have 5 or six tachyon beams on you, each of which could drain all your shields isn't doing much. Even HE... well, I'm carrying but you only get 1 every 45 seconds.

    If anything it just means do more runs from the DPS channels so that people can share the tachyon beams. PUGs have too many people who think they're tanks so they don't need to have much DPS, but then that means they can't draw aggro and I get all the tachyon beams on me.
  • alex284alex284 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    +, in my opnion; the Borg are currently ridiculous, in the tv show they were scary. I would like to see them in game more smart. And why not, a new space skill; a skill which could begun to assimilate your ship, with a nice animation on our ships.

    That'd be pretty cool! When I started playing I just assumed the borg would have an ability like that since it's pretty much their iconic ability in canon and I've played other ST games where they could do that. I was actually kinda disappointed to find out that you could only be assimilated in ground.

    Then again, considering how buggy the assimilation mechanic is on ground (especially defera) maybe it's for the best that we don't see it in space.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    DPS channels

    no thank :)
    I don't know your build

    I have always EptS + science team, but they are useless against more than 1 tachyon beam. I use also the romulan tier5 rep trait, only when i'm really in danger.

    Even Nadion inversion is totally useless. I have erased my fed eng toon, because his skills were became useless or inefficient
    Then again, considering how buggy the assimilation mechanic is on ground (especially defera) maybe it's for the best that we don't see it in space.

    indeed, but the space skill could be really interesting and funny
  • farranorfarranor Member Posts: 559 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'm just an ordinary player. I'm not in the DPS channels, I don't run elite STFs these days, I don't have C-store luxuries. However, I started playing in 2012, and let me tell you, the Borg have always been doing this to shields. I don't even think it's a static drain value; it has to be a percentage - my shields are always gone in about two seconds. However, with the nice shield capacity consoles you can get these days, I have 16k shielding per facing, and, like I said, it's gone in two seconds... and then Sci Team barely makes a dent. Not even RSP is effective, because the Borg use Borg Shield Neutralizer, Tachyon Beam, Tractor Beam, and torpedoes, but not a lot of directed energy attacks. Hazard Emitters? Sure! Maybe I'll react in time and the UI will respond in time to stop the drain while I still have a few wisps of shielding left.

    And then they immediately recast the Neutralizer. It has no CD.

    I even have trouble dealing with that nonsense in the new version of Fluid Dynamics. I ask people what I'm doing wrong to have such difficulty, and I've heard everything from "that mission is just stupid" to "you need a totally different ship and build and epics or you're just bad." Even the plot-armored NPC allies get decimated almost immediately and spend the whole time "Repairing...".

    Cryptic certainly nailed the feel of fighting the Borg.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Hazard Emitters does not clear Tachyon Beam. Nothing does. Period.

    Having said that, the Borg Tachyon Beam on those spheres could probably use some toning down. With 2 crafted consoles, on the Science Command ship, I'm running at 214 Power Insulators; and even then those shields have a hard time of it. And, as an Engineer, I can even stack the deck with the situational Nadion Inversion. I can manage easily, of course (was trying out a new build centered around the Anchored Trait anyway; hull-tanking, baby, yeah). But still, the brutal Tachyon Beam appears to be somehwhat overdone.

    Especially since Bort said the Tachyon Beam was allegedly a bug, and never meant to be given to the NPC's in the first place. So, take it away again!
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    +, in my opnion; the Borg are currently ridiculous, in the tv show they were scary. I would like to see them in game more smart. And why not, a new space skill; a skill which could begun to assimilate your ship, with a nice animation on our ships.

    As Number Two told Dr. Evil: "That also has already been done." And it's called Assimilate Ship. You generally don't notice it, though, as it's cleared by TT.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    What folks who clamor for more show accuracy seem to forget is tat Cryptic took the middle road with Tachyon Beam .

    They could have upgraded the Borg Tractor Beam to have the draining effect on the same scale that Tachyon Beam currently delivers , and they could have put the said Borg Tractor Beam on Probes and Spheres .
    (it's cannon)

    So in the end you'd not only end up with shields stripped , but also immobilized by multiple targets .
    This could be mitigated if you had APO , or Polarize Hull -- but in general it could be much more of a pain in the rear .



    ... which could have been more interesting , but I still want the Borg to use more abilities then they have at the moment , after all they gain abilities of their defeated foes ...
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