I think I see what your issue is - you're a Star Trek fan first and foremost, obviosuly. I can tell you as one myself that I'm also not too happy about the direction the game has gone into, unfortunately. Sadly, you need to accept the reality that thiis particular ship has sailed long ago.
And even then, the request for a science ship is very valid. Now, what I figure your issue is - is that you're observing science ships from a ST perspective. Now try to observe them from a game perspective - science ships in this game have a combination of abilities that are unique to them:
- Cmdr. Science Boff slot
- Sensor Analysis
- Subsystem Targeting
- High shield mod
- Secondary Deflector Array
- Ability to have 5 science consoles
Now all these mesh very well with the science career track. Offering people the option to make a science character, but then restricting them from using a ship that can use science Cmdr. Boff is stupid of epic proportions. In such case you basically gimp people beacuse they made a choice that you offered them to make in the first place. It doesn't work that way and not only it's not fair, but it's quite frankly idiotic, IMHO.
In the Gorkon novels, Chancellor Martok sends 12 Qang Class ships on exploration missions in uncharted space. The Qang Class is basically a type of Vor'Cha enhanced with science equipment and facilities needed for deep space exploration and charting of unkown space. Each of them was also capable of combat and planetary invasion with about 1200 ground troops on board as well.
So from a pure Star Trek perspective, this would be the Klingon approach to exploration. Therefore, in a way you're right about Klingons and purely science vessels in canon. However, this is a game that created science ships by it's own gaming parameters. Otherwise there's no doubt that all the systems unique to science vessels here could be installed on all cruisers as well, for ex. It's a purely gameplay segregation. And by not giving a players of certain faction access to the ship that provides the gameplay intended for their career choice, you're basically gimping people out of spite and losing customers because "reasons".
Also you should probably note that the KDF in this game is not a "Klingons only club". There are Gorn, there are Joined Trill, there are Orions, Letheans, Ferasans, Nausicaans.....saying that neither of those species have ever utilized science ships and exploration of space is very naive.
Just for ex. the Orions are the oldest civilization that is playable in STO that even the lore of the game points out as them having access to ancient knowledge, secrets and technology way beyond anything else which prompted the alliance with the Klingon Empire in the first place.
I know why they want a true science ship on the KDF side its not necessary to play the game though LoL. Its like saying everyone should get a schimtar even if they are not romulan though to me. those ships are quite faction specific to me just like the schimtar is.. you must play a romulan to use one because its a romulan ship.
Sure it makes certain things easier but its not like you can't function as a tactical officer in another ship if you are not a romulan. So the sci equivalent of this issue is the fed sci ship with the secondary deflector etc etc.
I dont see why we should get one anymore then feds should be able to fly a schimtar if they are not romulan.
People look at those sci vessels as an 'i win" button in the same way they look at the schimtar.
I am not "stupid" or misinformed or anything though so you have come across a player who happens to be kdf and who really really hates their fed character who in fact does not support access of their beloved faction to this "i win" button. I know that doesn't happen very often but such is life. It doesnt make me stupid or misinformed. Lets face it a lot of people play kdf because of the hot and cold running controban but they prefer fed side so let them play fed side. I support the decision to let feds have that unique ship. If it lets me feel more klingon that way oh well such is life I guess
I'd support a kickstarter project for a star trek game, but not one with cryptic or pwe at the helm. They've proven pretty incompetent dealing with sto. Look at everything that's broken. Issues are left to linger forever and then take multiple attempts before they are "fixed" then they implement some other unrelated update and break it again. I've never played an mmo so poorly run in my life. The only reason I'm still here is because it's star trek and there are no alternatives.
I voted no and here is why. PWE and Cryptic are private companies, they have executives that are the decision makers of this game. If this game needs a new game engine or not, they will make the call. If you personally believe this game needs a new engine, buy a controling stake in the company, go to their shareholder meeting, replace boardmembers with people who will pressure the company to change the game engine.
I know why they want a true science ship on the KDF side its not necessary to play the game though LoL. Its like saying everyone should get a schimtar even if they are not romulan though to me. those ships are quite faction specific to me just like the schimtar is.. you must play a romulan to use one because its a romulan ship.
Ok, this made no sense whatsoever. I'm not asking for the Intrepid, I'm asking for a Klingon science ship. Or a Gorn one. Or Orion one. Or even a Ferasan one.
You do know there are already 2 KDF pure science ships that were end game (and at T5-U still arguably are), before T6 came?
Sure it makes certain things easier but its not like you can't function as a tactical officer in another ship if you are not a romulan. So the sci equivalent of this issue is the fed sci ship with the secondary deflector etc etc.
What are you even on about??
Here, I challenge you to go to the Federation shipyards section of the forum and start a thread stating that all escorts, battlecruisers and tactical cruisers should be removed from their roster because "it's not like their tacs. can't function" in the Galaxy Exploration Cruiser or science ships. lol Since that's the Fed. thing, exploring and science. And let's see the reception you'll get.
Oh and BTW, the Nov bundle and the Varanus both have secondary deflectors.
People look at those sci vessels as an 'i win" button in the same way they look at the schimtar.
LMAO!!! What people? Where??
PvP??? Try this - queue for PvP and then call me in a few years when the queue pops, assuming the game doesn't shut down before that. lol
The only place science ships have ever been even remotely considered an "I WIN" buttion is PvP, which is currently somewhere between 0 and 0.001% of STO.
I am not "stupid" or misin formed or anything though so you have come across a player who happens to be kdf and who really really hates their fed character who in fact does not support access of their beloved faction to this "i win" button. I know that doesn't happen very often but such is life. It doesnt make me stupid or misinformed. Lets face it a lot of people play kdf because of the hot and cold running controban but they prefer fed side so let them play fed side. I support the decision to let feds have that unique ship. If it lets me feel more klingon that way oh well such is life I guess
Well, you sure do sound completely missinformed if you think people consider sicence ships an "I WIN" button.
What you're basically saying is that you're supporting fellow players to be gimped just because they made a "wrong choice" when choosing a faction and career track, which has been offered as an option to them by the game developer. Do you even hear yourself and how you sound?
Because based on previous experience, Cryptic just doesn't strike me as a company that's all that concerned about what players want. The game is more about what they want and how they want us to play.
With that in mind, I wouldn't feel I could trust them to spend the money on what they say they will. Kickstarter is a risk, you should only put your money behind projects that you have confidence in and feel you have a high trust in the project leaders.
Simply put, I don't have that faith in the current leadership. I don't feel they listen enough and for that reason I wouldn't trust them in funding. It's not like buying a ship where you already know what you're getting, you're sending them money and trusting in what they say to tell you how it's used.
Would you support a Kickstarter Project to upgrade Star Trek Online's Game Engine ?
The problems with STO aren't in the engine. They are (ultimately) in the business model. I would pay for a change in management, since that's the only way the business model is going to be changed.
Having said that, they are supposedly rolling in dough from the forced-obsolecense in the DR business plan, so they do not need my $5 and probably don't think they need a change in business plan.
This is actually a very interesting question imo. I see a lot of 5+ year old MMOs that are starting to look horribly dated. Even massive ones like WoW that are rolling in money don't seem to have the foresight to invest in their engine for the long haul.
The MMO market is so stagnate now that a fresh graphic overhaul/engine update could really bring some of these older MMOs back into relevance. Most of the new MMOs are just re-hashed gameplay with fancier graphics anyway.
I would back such a kickstarter just out of sheer curiosity to see if it would be successful in riving the game.
snip not going to spend 3 hours answering your salad quoting
they want a "science vessel" and what are science vessels? but vessels used in peace time for exploration etc etc. it makes sense you just dont want to accept it. All science vessels in the game have the same design and all science vessels have supposedly the same purpose. So obviously when they updated their sci vessels they added secondary deflector to like all of them right? still they are what they are science vessels keyword "science".
Now klingons dont use science vessels they use ships designed for one purpose .. to do battle. No matter how you slice it a science ship is not a warship or battleship. That is pretty logical and sensible.
now klingons conquer. Yes they do. They look down on the weak even in their own culture and dying from old age is like a "bad" thing. So what true blooded klingon would step foot onto a science ship to do glorious battle. I will tell you NONE. If they want to go that route they will need to join the federation side because that is where weak cowardly petach go. Then as a klingon on the federation side you can captain hot and cold running science vessels. That is allowed after all Worf did it..
the rest of your word salad i am not going there, but once upon a time there was pvp on the kdf side and lots of it all the time and no pve.. None.
As for misinformed no your just trying to justify adding something to a game using some wierd logic that science captains can't play this game without a pure science exploration ship. Its not true. Just like its not true that you can't play a tactical officer properly unless you own a schimtar. Or at least that was the last rant on these boards awhile back "wah wah schimtar is OP"
you just dont want to accept that I do not feel that its appropriate for them to design a true klingon faction science vessel. Its truly logical in all ways. Science vessels are not warships of any kind. The varanus is not a klingon ship.. its a cross faction science ship made by the gorn. So maybe they will make another cross faction science ship like that or the dyson ship as I have said. They probably will stuff it in a lock box and call it a kobali ship or something though. I dont want one of those either.
Science ships are for cowards and weaklings. If I die it will not be of old age but in 'glorious battle' sorry if you feel that my gameplay is illogical but its not. so I say again. "go play a cowardly weak fed" and leave the KDF to conquer and protect the cowardly weak people who want to do research and exploration!
anyhow had enough of this. My mouse and keyboard are angry at this message board and its hard to write a message and I am tired of fixing my posts.. i think my browser is broken. So have fun call me more names tell me i am "misinformed" and I will continue to play the game with my science officer using his t5 vo'qu until they release a new one or I quit the game.
----Adding this after. What I am saying is dont make a ship that is a science ship make it look klingon and give it a klingon name. I have said this several times "maybe they will make some more cross faction science ships" but to design a true klingon ship would be silly. (that is quite logical and as of yet they have not designed any klingon science ships and it makes no sense for them to start now.. surely what they will do is make another cross faction ship because that is more logical is it not? that is how we got the atrox, the dyson ships and .. the varanus..)
No, at this point I don't feel like putting money in to a project if the developers are going to release content with bias towards their implemented factions. Now if they shored up the ship offerings on the KDF and Romulan sides without releasing gimick command ships then I'd be more interested.
Personally would rather not have this company running the game anymore. I'd do a kickstarter if it was a brand new project. But that won't happen until this one closes and releases the IP contract.
..........
If you can't play a science officer simply because you think its that ship that makes him good then alas the phrase "your doing it wrong" comes to mind. My science KDF officer is awesome I just purchase ships that are tanky that are geared towards more science officer abilities.....
That right there, yep. My own KDF Sci currently flies a Fleet Hoh'Sus, and rocks it pretty well. There's something to be said for fast, nimble ships that have only universal boff slots. Tried the Fleet Varanus and just hated the feel, but do have the Vo'quv which I rarely use lol.
now klingons conquer. Yes they do. They look down on the weak even in their own culture and dying from old age is like a "bad" thing. So what true blooded klingon would step foot onto a science ship to do glorious battle. I will tell you NONE. If they want to go that route they will need to join the federation side because that is where weak cowardly petach go. Then as a klingon on the federation side you can captain hot and cold running science vessels. That is allowed after all Worf did it..
Sorry, but i am a little confused. Are you saying that there are no Klingon scientist? Or are you saying that there are Klingon scientist, but they just can't step foot on a science vessel, and keep their honor, unless they are killing defenseless persons?
I am asking this because in ST canon (just from the series alone), there were Klingon scientist. Granted, I don't remember a specific Klingon science ship mentioned, but I am sure they did have ships for them to use. And even if they didn't have a science specific ship, I am sure it was able to handle their science equipment.
Therefore, I don't see any problem with KDF getting a decent science vessel. That is just my personal opinion though.
I always liked the Klingon race in ST. So, it is hard for me to just consider them mindless killing machines. I think of a lot of them as honorable warriors. But, even an honorable warrior has to admit that without technology, and science, even the Klingon race would have never made it off their home planet.
To say that a Science Klingon should not have a science vessel is to me the same as saying that the Feds shouldn't have the Defiant. It has a cloak, and cannons on the front of it. But, it is like what the Klingons would use. Stealth, then come out firing hard, then cloak.
But, the Defiant fits for that time. It was a time where the Federation had to think about making something that said they will not stand by, and be walked on.
The Klingons are at that point now. They are at a point where new technology is being discovered in the game. For this reason, they need to either step up, or be left behind. Otherwise, they will be nothing but cannon fodder. And they are much better than that.
Again, this is just my personal opinion on how I see the KDF, and how they are lacking as far as science options go for those that like to fly science ships.
I never saw my different faction characters as one being better than the other. I used to play on all of my 13 characters before DR the same. The only reason I now have a main is because of the uber-grind that DR is, and the extreme cost for upgrading.
But KDF, Rommie, and Fed all have their strengths and weaknesses. That is why they are so powerful when they band together, and fight side by side. If one is lacking in ships, and can be helped, I say give them that help.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
Thank god you werent here for the Medlas -> Dil conversion.
Despite the join date, i've been here since the beginning.
Seen ALOT over the years, the good, the bad and the downright ugly. I usually have a thick skin.
But do i feel cheated? dunno, maybe not actually.
However with everything that came with DR just ugh, hard to put into words, but for me, not a bright spot in the history of the game and overall with how everything was handled by cryptic ( calling players exploiters and cheats etc ) alot of the trust i had for then has been eroded away.
Supporting a Star Trek MMO Kickstarter that is closer to Star Trek and farther away from the last seasons of Deep Space 9 which has true Star Trek exploration and the ability of resolve problems like civilized individuals rather than using gunboat diplomacy, yes.
I definitely would not support a kickstarter for an existing product - not STO, not anything I can think of in fact...
The company is either making enough money to do the development themselves, or is not turning enough of a profit and the money being 'invested' would end up in the pocket of recognised creditors...
Not a wise move for those involved in the kick starter campaign, no matter how you look at it, IMO...
If you guys are that desperate to get rid of your cash, why not give it all to Chris Roberts? He'll take your money while extending pre-Alpha for Star Citizen until 2194, and you'll all thank him for it.
If you guys are that desperate to get rid of your cash, why not give it all to Chris Roberts? He'll take your money while extending pre-Alpha for Star Citizen until 2194, and you'll all thank him for it.
I rarely agree with you it seems, but this is one point I definitely do agree with... Star Citizen is becoming something of a bad joke...
They're notorious for selling ships worth hundreds of dollars and are now selling physical merchandise, for a game that's not even publicly playable yet, and people criticise Cryptic for their apparent profiteering...
without the game engine source code being put on sale and approval from cbs, kickstarter project is a waste of time.
it is already a waste of time before asking anyway, the whole reason from what i understand as to why PWE bought out cryptic, is because of the game engine cryptic were using. what would it serve PWE by selling that game engine? nothing. if a modding team comes together to build something under GNU if the game engine is sold to the right person and got rights by cbs, what would be in it for cryptic and pwe when they both learn that a heavily modified and bug free version of the game designed around modders turned out to be even better then they ever expected drawing in millions of games world wide, enough to potentially threaten WoW and its clones on the market?
yeah, never going to happen in this world. in your fantasy land perhaps its possible.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Also you should probably note that the KDF in this game is not a "Klingons only club". There are Gorn, there are Joined Trill, there are Orions, Letheans, Ferasans, Nausicaans.....saying that neither of those species have ever utilized science ships and exploration of space is very naive.
Just for ex. the Orions are the oldest civilization that is playable in STO that even the lore of the game points out as them having access to ancient knowledge, secrets and technology way beyond anything else which prompted the alliance with the Klingon Empire in the first place.
You cannot really blame people that are not that much into Star Trek to not know that, this game does a horrible job at portraying those factions. Orions by all means are pirate mobs and naked ladies for the majority of STO players and only people that really dig into Star Trek lore even know that Orions are not all syndicate pirates, are even supposed to run around fully clothed and that there are institutions like the Orion institute of cosmology. Also, Gorn (who aren't even looking like Gorn and could very well be called "Lizonians" in STO for all I care) were known to be much more reasonable and more science oriented than the game suggests. Not much is known about the other people but none of their affiliations with the Klingon Empire makes much sense to begin with and the main faction of the red side is portrayed as being space orcs with dreadlocks. So...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
they want a "science vessel" and what are science vessels? but vessels used in peace time for exploration etc etc. it makes sense you just dont want to accept it. All science vessels in the game have the same design and all science vessels have supposedly the same purpose. So obviously when they updated their sci vessels they added secondary deflector to like all of them right? still they are what they are science vessels keyword "science".
So now you're arguing against it because of terminology??
Cool, can we give the ship all unique science ship traits and call it the "ultimate harbringer of disruptor doom". Would it be ok with you then?? :rolleyes:
Now klingons dont use science vessels they use ships designed for one purpose .. to do battle. No matter how you slice it a science ship is not a warship or battleship. That is pretty logical and sensible.
now klingons conquer. Yes they do. They look down on the weak even in their own culture and dying from old age is like a "bad" thing. So what true blooded klingon would step foot onto a science ship to do glorious battle. I will tell you NONE. If they want to go that route they will need to join the federation side because that is where weak cowardly petach go. Then as a klingon on the federation side you can captain hot and cold running science vessels. That is allowed after all Worf did it..
Seriously, you lack elementary knowledge of how societies work. By the logic you displayed here, no Klingon would "fall so low" in order to cook food for others, because it's not a life of glorious battle. Therefore the Klingon species would have probably died of famine because noone would produce food. Those Klingon farmers in the Ketha Lowlands on Qo'noS? Honorless petaQ' right? :rolleyes:
How about the big Klingon cook that owned a restaurant on DS9? He seemed pretty happy with his life. How about tha attourney that prosecuted Worf? What did he say - "My battles are the ones I fight in this courtroom!" or sth. in lines of that.
Kurak, the engineering mastermind that created teh Negh'Var Class by request of Chancellor Gowron, was assigned the position of Chief Engineer aboard the I.K.S. Gorkon - a ship on a mission to discover and conquer new worlds under the command of Captain Klag who had just been accepted in the "Order of the Bat'leth" - one of the highest achievments a Klingon warrior could dream of.
Yet all she could talk about was how she can't wait for the day her cousin becomes of age and joins the KDF to represent their Great House for the Empire, so she could leave and get back to Ty'Gokor and designing new ships and techonolgies for the Empire.
Moral of what I'm talking about - not all battles are fought at the tip of a blade and are resolved in bloodshed and death. Even for more aggresive species like the Klingons.
What you provide here is a very one-dimensional and even cartoon-ish outlook on certain species that are suposed to be one of the main and most formidable Empires in the galaxy.
I'm safe to say that if things work the way you want to describe them, the Klingons would have never broken the Hur'q invasion and would've never forged an interstellar empire afterwards.
As for misinformed no your just trying to justify adding something to a game using some wierd logic that science captains can't play this game without a pure science exploration ship. Its not true. Just like its not true that you can't play a tactical officer properly unless you own a schimtar. Or at least that was the last rant on these boards awhile back "wah wah schimtar is OP"
Again, I challenge you to go to the Federation Shipyards section of the forum and start a thread stating that all tactical centered and cloaking capable ships should be removed from their roster because "It's not like they can't play their tactical captains without pure tactical ships" and because "Federation does scienc-y stuff and doesn't conquer" and see the reception you'll get.
I'm not sure if you're really this ignorant or just trolling me here, but saying that a character class shouldn't have access to it's designed ship class is just plain stupid. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's like playing WoW and saying that Blood Elf paladins should not wear mail & plate armor like Human paladins because it's not their style and that anyone playing an Blood Elf paladin should tank in leather gear. :rolleyes:
you just dont want to accept that I do not feel that its appropriate for them to design a true klingon faction science vessel. Its truly logical in all ways. Science vessels are not warships of any kind. The varanus is not a klingon ship.. its a cross faction science ship made by the gorn. So maybe they will make another cross faction science ship like that or the dyson ship as I have said. They probably will stuff it in a lock box and call it a kobali ship or something though. I dont want one of those either.
No, I fully accept that you don't think it's apropriate. What I'm saying is that your stance is stupid and I don't accept it as a solution or a logical stance given the circumistances. It's you who doesn't want to accept that what you're saying here is stupid.
And after reading this paragraph, I'm even inclined to challenge your claims about your understanding and knowledge of this game. The Varanus is not a cross faction ship - it's purely a KDF vessel. So is the Nov 3-pack. I can go and purchase them from the C-Store with my KDF chars. I can't get them with my Federation chars.
If I die it will not be of old age but in 'glorious battle' sorry if you feel that my gameplay is illogical but its not. so I say again. "go play a cowardly weak fed" and leave the KDF to conquer and protect the cowardly weak people who want to do research and exploration!
See, here's the problem - noone is telling you what to do or forcing you to play in a certain manner. You want to die in a glorious battle while commanding a tactical ubership created for battle? Good for you. My main is a tactical that flies a Mat'Ha and plays exactly like that.
But why do you have an issue if a player that plays a science Orion chick, or even....*gasp*...a science Klingon, has access to the proper gameplay intended for their class? Selfish much?
anyhow had enough of this. My mouse and keyboard are angry at this message board and its hard to write a message and I am tired of fixing my posts.. i think my browser is broken. So have fun call me more names tell me i am "misinformed" and I will continue to play the game with my science officer using his t5 vo'qu until they release a new one or I quit the game.
I didn't call you any names. In fact, noone in this thread did so far. I called some of your claims stupid and I'll continue to do so if I truly believe they are, which I do. That's not a personal attack, it's an attack on your claims that you opened to debate yourself by posting them on a public forum.
----Adding this after. What I am saying is dont make a ship that is a science ship make it look klingon and give it a klingon name. I have said this several times "maybe they will make some more cross faction science ships" but to design a true klingon ship would be silly. (that is quite logical and as of yet they have not designed any klingon science ships and it makes no sense for them to start now.. surely what they will do is make another cross faction ship because that is more logical is it not? that is how we got the atrox, the dyson ships and .. the varanus..)
Given the wonky understanding of what "cross-faction" means you displayed before, I'm not sure what you mean here.
Do you want to tell me that you think the only way players playing a science charater on the KDF side should get access to a ship native to their class is by gambling hundreds of dollars??
Or did you mean - "not Klingon made", which can belong to any of the KDF affiliated species like Orions or Gorn, etc.? Because noone is asking for "purely Klingon made" science ship, it can very much be made by the Gorn as it has been so far.
Not a big fan of kick-starter to begin with. That said, if we are talking about an MMO style or online free to play style game with a new engine with another publisher and developer...perhaps, but again, probably not. It wouldn't happen anyway because based on the numbers Cryptic has provided, they are dismal at best and no publisher out there would touch it.
There will be more Star Trek games, but not in online/MMO/free to play form.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
your logic all revolves around "they did X and called it star trek therefore they should do y and call it star trek" your wanting to justify more stupid decisions as "good" and call it good for the faction.
I am sorry but the day they make a true klingon science ship and give it a klingon name is the day I quit. That is all i am saying and all I have said. Nothing you can say or explain will change that fact for me.
Your not a klink sorry you actually swallow the stupid idea of them creating a true klingon science vessel under the star trek IP and I do not. The carrier that they do have in the klingon lineup is actually a part of the lore if you look it up.
So carry on I will repeat it again one more time for you the day they design an actual klingon science vessel and slap a klingon name on it is the day I quit.
The varanus was and is an abomination to the klingon side I shut my eyes then because they managed to try to work it in as a race that is not klingon but associates with them so i could swallow it. However the varanus is not a klingon ship its a gorn ship so I can handle it.. I cannot handle a klingon ship with a klingon design and a klingon name that is a science vessel.
Anyone else that thinks that klinks explored the galaxy in poofy fed ships with klingon names.. your no klingon :eek:
I notice you put a cat on your klingon banner so the discussion ends there your just someone who likes red but wants to mold the faction to be a carbon copy of the federation side. Whatever man. I just realized I am talking to someone who does not like things to be unique to certain sides. So I am out..
if you want to make more word salads go ahead my reply will be the same "the day they make a klingon science vessel will be the day they have gone to far and the day I will quit"
Um...no...
KDF used to have carriers exclusively-but they're NOT known for them.
and...wow, you really proclaim yourself Klingon? seriously?
Or did I miss a 'sarcasm' smiley somewhere?
so you admit that this awesome ship is actually represented properly on the klingon side just like the scimtar is a true romulan type ship that a lot of people identify with
yes there is only one however its a true klingon ship and a ship a lot of people identify with
i am a true klingon and not a transplanted fed I dont fly ships that dont make sense to the faction and i do not believe that it makes sense just to make all the sides identical
sorry..
if you can't see the issue here then its not me that has the problem its you.. what your doing is going "wah wah wah feds have science ship I want a fed science ship to play on my klink" just like people on the fed side say "wah wah wah romulans have a schimtar I want a schimtar to play on my fed"
same noise and same reasons..
edit i noticed your saying somethign wierd about birds of prey.. obviously they are going to release some of those this is a no brainer. However the discussion here is about klingons getting science exploration vessels as battleships lol. We have eleventy seventy different types of birds of prey so they will be giving us a t6 version of that as they get to it. If you look they are working through the classes of ships. So I fully expect them to release a t6 set of birds of prey and a t6 carrier. I will be sitting here in my t5 version waiting patiently for that day... (but I have said that already too..)
Comments
NO!
I am not insulting you. I am simply stating you so not seem to understand that people have opinions that are different from yours.
If you wish to report people because they have different opinions that you do, then that is your prerogative.
I know why they want a true science ship on the KDF side its not necessary to play the game though LoL. Its like saying everyone should get a schimtar even if they are not romulan though to me. those ships are quite faction specific to me just like the schimtar is.. you must play a romulan to use one because its a romulan ship.
Sure it makes certain things easier but its not like you can't function as a tactical officer in another ship if you are not a romulan. So the sci equivalent of this issue is the fed sci ship with the secondary deflector etc etc.
I dont see why we should get one anymore then feds should be able to fly a schimtar if they are not romulan.
People look at those sci vessels as an 'i win" button in the same way they look at the schimtar.
I am not "stupid" or misinformed or anything though so you have come across a player who happens to be kdf and who really really hates their fed character who in fact does not support access of their beloved faction to this "i win" button. I know that doesn't happen very often but such is life. It doesnt make me stupid or misinformed. Lets face it a lot of people play kdf because of the hot and cold running controban but they prefer fed side so let them play fed side. I support the decision to let feds have that unique ship. If it lets me feel more klingon that way oh well such is life I guess
@!
Ok, this made no sense whatsoever. I'm not asking for the Intrepid, I'm asking for a Klingon science ship. Or a Gorn one. Or Orion one. Or even a Ferasan one.
You do know there are already 2 KDF pure science ships that were end game (and at T5-U still arguably are), before T6 came?
What are you even on about??
Here, I challenge you to go to the Federation shipyards section of the forum and start a thread stating that all escorts, battlecruisers and tactical cruisers should be removed from their roster because "it's not like their tacs. can't function" in the Galaxy Exploration Cruiser or science ships. lol
Oh and BTW, the Nov bundle and the Varanus both have secondary deflectors.
You're not making any sense at all.
LMAO!!!
PvP??? Try this - queue for PvP and then call me in a few years when the queue pops, assuming the game doesn't shut down before that. lol
The only place science ships have ever been even remotely considered an "I WIN" buttion is PvP, which is currently somewhere between 0 and 0.001% of STO.
Well, you sure do sound completely missinformed if you think people consider sicence ships an "I WIN" button.
What you're basically saying is that you're supporting fellow players to be gimped just because they made a "wrong choice" when choosing a faction and career track, which has been offered as an option to them by the game developer. Do you even hear yourself and how you sound?
and even more if they killed Tovan Khev
Why?
Because based on previous experience, Cryptic just doesn't strike me as a company that's all that concerned about what players want. The game is more about what they want and how they want us to play.
With that in mind, I wouldn't feel I could trust them to spend the money on what they say they will. Kickstarter is a risk, you should only put your money behind projects that you have confidence in and feel you have a high trust in the project leaders.
Simply put, I don't have that faith in the current leadership. I don't feel they listen enough and for that reason I wouldn't trust them in funding. It's not like buying a ship where you already know what you're getting, you're sending them money and trusting in what they say to tell you how it's used.
Having said that, they are supposedly rolling in dough from the forced-obsolecense in the DR business plan, so they do not need my $5 and probably don't think they need a change in business plan.
The MMO market is so stagnate now that a fresh graphic overhaul/engine update could really bring some of these older MMOs back into relevance. Most of the new MMOs are just re-hashed gameplay with fancier graphics anyway.
I would back such a kickstarter just out of sheer curiosity to see if it would be successful in riving the game.
they want a "science vessel" and what are science vessels? but vessels used in peace time for exploration etc etc. it makes sense you just dont want to accept it. All science vessels in the game have the same design and all science vessels have supposedly the same purpose. So obviously when they updated their sci vessels they added secondary deflector to like all of them right?
Now klingons dont use science vessels they use ships designed for one purpose .. to do battle. No matter how you slice it a science ship is not a warship or battleship. That is pretty logical and sensible.
now klingons conquer. Yes they do. They look down on the weak even in their own culture and dying from old age is like a "bad" thing. So what true blooded klingon would step foot onto a science ship to do glorious battle. I will tell you NONE. If they want to go that route they will need to join the federation side because that is where weak cowardly petach go. Then as a klingon on the federation side you can captain hot and cold running science vessels. That is allowed after all Worf did it..
the rest of your word salad i am not going there, but once upon a time there was pvp on the kdf side and lots of it all the time and no pve.. None.
As for misinformed no your just trying to justify adding something to a game using some wierd logic that science captains can't play this game without a pure science exploration ship. Its not true. Just like its not true that you can't play a tactical officer properly unless you own a schimtar. Or at least that was the last rant on these boards awhile back "wah wah schimtar is OP"
you just dont want to accept that I do not feel that its appropriate for them to design a true klingon faction science vessel. Its truly logical in all ways. Science vessels are not warships of any kind. The varanus is not a klingon ship.. its a cross faction science ship made by the gorn. So maybe they will make another cross faction science ship like that or the dyson ship as I have said. They probably will stuff it in a lock box and call it a kobali ship or something though. I dont want one of those either.
Science ships are for cowards and weaklings. If I die it will not be of old age but in 'glorious battle' sorry if you feel that my gameplay is illogical but its not. so I say again. "go play a cowardly weak fed" and leave the KDF to conquer and protect the cowardly weak people who want to do research and exploration!
anyhow had enough of this. My mouse and keyboard are angry at this message board and its hard to write a message and I am tired of fixing my posts.. i think my browser is broken. So have fun call me more names tell me i am "misinformed" and I will continue to play the game with my science officer using his t5 vo'qu until they release a new one or I quit the game.
----Adding this after. What I am saying is dont make a ship that is a science ship make it look klingon and give it a klingon name. I have said this several times "maybe they will make some more cross faction science ships" but to design a true klingon ship would be silly. (that is quite logical and as of yet they have not designed any klingon science ships and it makes no sense for them to start now.. surely what they will do is make another cross faction ship because that is more logical is it not? that is how we got the atrox, the dyson ships and .. the varanus..)
Maybe vote.
Personally would rather not have this company running the game anymore. I'd do a kickstarter if it was a brand new project. But that won't happen until this one closes and releases the IP contract.
That right there, yep. My own KDF Sci currently flies a Fleet Hoh'Sus, and rocks it pretty well. There's something to be said for fast, nimble ships that have only universal boff slots. Tried the Fleet Varanus and just hated the feel, but do have the Vo'quv which I rarely use lol.
Sorry, but i am a little confused. Are you saying that there are no Klingon scientist? Or are you saying that there are Klingon scientist, but they just can't step foot on a science vessel, and keep their honor, unless they are killing defenseless persons?
I am asking this because in ST canon (just from the series alone), there were Klingon scientist. Granted, I don't remember a specific Klingon science ship mentioned, but I am sure they did have ships for them to use. And even if they didn't have a science specific ship, I am sure it was able to handle their science equipment.
Therefore, I don't see any problem with KDF getting a decent science vessel. That is just my personal opinion though.
I always liked the Klingon race in ST. So, it is hard for me to just consider them mindless killing machines. I think of a lot of them as honorable warriors. But, even an honorable warrior has to admit that without technology, and science, even the Klingon race would have never made it off their home planet.
To say that a Science Klingon should not have a science vessel is to me the same as saying that the Feds shouldn't have the Defiant. It has a cloak, and cannons on the front of it. But, it is like what the Klingons would use. Stealth, then come out firing hard, then cloak.
But, the Defiant fits for that time. It was a time where the Federation had to think about making something that said they will not stand by, and be walked on.
The Klingons are at that point now. They are at a point where new technology is being discovered in the game. For this reason, they need to either step up, or be left behind. Otherwise, they will be nothing but cannon fodder. And they are much better than that.
Again, this is just my personal opinion on how I see the KDF, and how they are lacking as far as science options go for those that like to fly science ships.
I never saw my different faction characters as one being better than the other. I used to play on all of my 13 characters before DR the same. The only reason I now have a main is because of the uber-grind that DR is, and the extreme cost for upgrading.
But KDF, Rommie, and Fed all have their strengths and weaknesses. That is why they are so powerful when they band together, and fight side by side. If one is lacking in ships, and can be helped, I say give them that help.
Despite the join date, i've been here since the beginning.
Seen ALOT over the years, the good, the bad and the downright ugly. I usually have a thick skin.
But do i feel cheated? dunno, maybe not actually.
However with everything that came with DR just ugh, hard to put into words, but for me, not a bright spot in the history of the game and overall with how everything was handled by cryptic ( calling players exploiters and cheats etc ) alot of the trust i had for then has been eroded away.
Supporting a Star Trek MMO Kickstarter that is closer to Star Trek and farther away from the last seasons of Deep Space 9 which has true Star Trek exploration and the ability of resolve problems like civilized individuals rather than using gunboat diplomacy, yes.
The company is either making enough money to do the development themselves, or is not turning enough of a profit and the money being 'invested' would end up in the pocket of recognised creditors...
Not a wise move for those involved in the kick starter campaign, no matter how you look at it, IMO...
Free Tibet!
I rarely agree with you it seems, but this is one point I definitely do agree with... Star Citizen is becoming something of a bad joke...
They're notorious for selling ships worth hundreds of dollars and are now selling physical merchandise, for a game that's not even publicly playable yet, and people criticise Cryptic for their apparent profiteering...
it is already a waste of time before asking anyway, the whole reason from what i understand as to why PWE bought out cryptic, is because of the game engine cryptic were using. what would it serve PWE by selling that game engine? nothing. if a modding team comes together to build something under GNU if the game engine is sold to the right person and got rights by cbs, what would be in it for cryptic and pwe when they both learn that a heavily modified and bug free version of the game designed around modders turned out to be even better then they ever expected drawing in millions of games world wide, enough to potentially threaten WoW and its clones on the market?
yeah, never going to happen in this world. in your fantasy land perhaps its possible.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You cannot really blame people that are not that much into Star Trek to not know that, this game does a horrible job at portraying those factions. Orions by all means are pirate mobs and naked ladies for the majority of STO players and only people that really dig into Star Trek lore even know that Orions are not all syndicate pirates, are even supposed to run around fully clothed and that there are institutions like the Orion institute of cosmology. Also, Gorn (who aren't even looking like Gorn and could very well be called "Lizonians" in STO for all I care) were known to be much more reasonable and more science oriented than the game suggests. Not much is known about the other people but none of their affiliations with the Klingon Empire makes much sense to begin with and the main faction of the red side is portrayed as being space orcs with dreadlocks. So...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Is replayable end game content
Colonization/exploration/territory control/Team based/npc support/player citys
and a player driven economy
A new engine and graphics ? NOT
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
So now you're arguing against it because of terminology??
Cool, can we give the ship all unique science ship traits and call it the "ultimate harbringer of disruptor doom". Would it be ok with you then?? :rolleyes:
Seriously, you lack elementary knowledge of how societies work. By the logic you displayed here, no Klingon would "fall so low" in order to cook food for others, because it's not a life of glorious battle. Therefore the Klingon species would have probably died of famine because noone would produce food. Those Klingon farmers in the Ketha Lowlands on Qo'noS? Honorless petaQ' right? :rolleyes:
How about the big Klingon cook that owned a restaurant on DS9? He seemed pretty happy with his life. How about tha attourney that prosecuted Worf? What did he say - "My battles are the ones I fight in this courtroom!" or sth. in lines of that.
Kurak, the engineering mastermind that created teh Negh'Var Class by request of Chancellor Gowron, was assigned the position of Chief Engineer aboard the I.K.S. Gorkon - a ship on a mission to discover and conquer new worlds under the command of Captain Klag who had just been accepted in the "Order of the Bat'leth" - one of the highest achievments a Klingon warrior could dream of.
Yet all she could talk about was how she can't wait for the day her cousin becomes of age and joins the KDF to represent their Great House for the Empire, so she could leave and get back to Ty'Gokor and designing new ships and techonolgies for the Empire.
Moral of what I'm talking about - not all battles are fought at the tip of a blade and are resolved in bloodshed and death. Even for more aggresive species like the Klingons.
What you provide here is a very one-dimensional and even cartoon-ish outlook on certain species that are suposed to be one of the main and most formidable Empires in the galaxy.
I'm safe to say that if things work the way you want to describe them, the Klingons would have never broken the Hur'q invasion and would've never forged an interstellar empire afterwards.
And this is relevant for the discussion we're having now......how??
Besides, I like salads. A lot.
Again, I challenge you to go to the Federation Shipyards section of the forum and start a thread stating that all tactical centered and cloaking capable ships should be removed from their roster because "It's not like they can't play their tactical captains without pure tactical ships" and because "Federation does scienc-y stuff and doesn't conquer" and see the reception you'll get.
I'm not sure if you're really this ignorant or just trolling me here, but saying that a character class shouldn't have access to it's designed ship class is just plain stupid. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's like playing WoW and saying that Blood Elf paladins should not wear mail & plate armor like Human paladins because it's not their style and that anyone playing an Blood Elf paladin should tank in leather gear. :rolleyes:
No, I fully accept that you don't think it's apropriate. What I'm saying is that your stance is stupid and I don't accept it as a solution or a logical stance given the circumistances. It's you who doesn't want to accept that what you're saying here is stupid.
And after reading this paragraph, I'm even inclined to challenge your claims about your understanding and knowledge of this game. The Varanus is not a cross faction ship - it's purely a KDF vessel. So is the Nov 3-pack. I can go and purchase them from the C-Store with my KDF chars. I can't get them with my Federation chars.
I can only say >this< to that. *facepalm*
See, here's the problem - noone is telling you what to do or forcing you to play in a certain manner. You want to die in a glorious battle while commanding a tactical ubership created for battle? Good for you. My main is a tactical that flies a Mat'Ha and plays exactly like that.
But why do you have an issue if a player that plays a science Orion chick, or even....*gasp*...a science Klingon, has access to the proper gameplay intended for their class? Selfish much?
I didn't call you any names. In fact, noone in this thread did so far. I called some of your claims stupid and I'll continue to do so if I truly believe they are, which I do. That's not a personal attack, it's an attack on your claims that you opened to debate yourself by posting them on a public forum.
Given the wonky understanding of what "cross-faction" means you displayed before, I'm not sure what you mean here.
Do you want to tell me that you think the only way players playing a science charater on the KDF side should get access to a ship native to their class is by gambling hundreds of dollars??
Or did you mean - "not Klingon made", which can belong to any of the KDF affiliated species like Orions or Gorn, etc.? Because noone is asking for "purely Klingon made" science ship, it can very much be made by the Gorn as it has been so far.
Not a big fan of kick-starter to begin with. That said, if we are talking about an MMO style or online free to play style game with a new engine with another publisher and developer...perhaps, but again, probably not. It wouldn't happen anyway because based on the numbers Cryptic has provided, they are dismal at best and no publisher out there would touch it.
There will be more Star Trek games, but not in online/MMO/free to play form.
your logic all revolves around "they did X and called it star trek therefore they should do y and call it star trek" your wanting to justify more stupid decisions as "good" and call it good for the faction.
I am sorry but the day they make a true klingon science ship and give it a klingon name is the day I quit. That is all i am saying and all I have said. Nothing you can say or explain will change that fact for me.
Your not a klink sorry you actually swallow the stupid idea of them creating a true klingon science vessel under the star trek IP and I do not. The carrier that they do have in the klingon lineup is actually a part of the lore if you look it up.
So carry on I will repeat it again one more time for you the day they design an actual klingon science vessel and slap a klingon name on it is the day I quit.
The varanus was and is an abomination to the klingon side I shut my eyes then because they managed to try to work it in as a race that is not klingon but associates with them so i could swallow it. However the varanus is not a klingon ship its a gorn ship so I can handle it.. I cannot handle a klingon ship with a klingon design and a klingon name that is a science vessel.
Anyone else that thinks that klinks explored the galaxy in poofy fed ships with klingon names.. your no klingon :eek:
I notice you put a cat on your klingon banner so the discussion ends there your just someone who likes red but wants to mold the faction to be a carbon copy of the federation side. Whatever man. I just realized I am talking to someone who does not like things to be unique to certain sides. So I am out..
if you want to make more word salads go ahead my reply will be the same "the day they make a klingon science vessel will be the day they have gone to far and the day I will quit"
so you admit that this awesome ship is actually represented properly on the klingon side just like the scimtar is a true romulan type ship that a lot of people identify with
yes there is only one however its a true klingon ship and a ship a lot of people identify with
i am a true klingon and not a transplanted fed I dont fly ships that dont make sense to the faction and i do not believe that it makes sense just to make all the sides identical
sorry..
if you can't see the issue here then its not me that has the problem its you.. what your doing is going "wah wah wah feds have science ship I want a fed science ship to play on my klink" just like people on the fed side say "wah wah wah romulans have a schimtar I want a schimtar to play on my fed"
same noise and same reasons..
edit i noticed your saying somethign wierd about birds of prey.. obviously they are going to release some of those this is a no brainer. However the discussion here is about klingons getting science exploration vessels as battleships lol. We have eleventy seventy different types of birds of prey so they will be giving us a t6 version of that as they get to it. If you look they are working through the classes of ships. So I fully expect them to release a t6 set of birds of prey and a t6 carrier. I will be sitting here in my t5 version waiting patiently for that day... (but I have said that already too..)