ok so i can understand why we cant necessarily remove Tovan Khev from our crew. his physical character presence is needed. i also understand in the grand scheme of things that his name is needed in the storyline the first time through. So, i ask for a compromise between the dev's need for us to not get rid of him, and our want as players for at least some customization.
here's the crux of the problem for me. When i go down to some place like lets say nimbus helping a friend. at this point most have started a little tweaking of the crew so u have some different names. u might see one or 2 that still are using default names but....then theres the utter rediculousness of having a hundred tovan khevs running around because even at level 60 when theres no possible way we have not seen the storyline arc a hundred times with the textual reference of tovan khev and rescued his stupid sister countless times and so would miss nothing by seeing our renamed officer calling her sister because, well, we just already know.
dont lump this in with the countless "why cant we kill tovan khev" threads that get autoclosed because of the frequency of their starting. this isnt one of those.
I run a crew named after generals of the Brotherhood of Nod. It has annoyed me to no great end that I cannot simply rename Tovan Khev to keep up with my own theme.
I dont want him dead. just renamed. he's actually a decent officer with superior romulan operative trait.
make that one of the level 60 rewards: congratulations fleet admiral. you can finally rename tovan khev
I'd love to see the concept worked out. We *should* have recurring needs to leverage certain officers.
Reginald Barclay managed to be pivotal in two franchises across multiple episodes, for example.
I understand there are players who are more into build tuning than plot lines and role play. I don't blame them. But we do need something like the Tovan Khev approach.
agreed with all above, KDF and FED aren't fixed, so shouldn't romulan. New Romulus is more a playground than a homeplanet, and its like they are they because you have to. but just cut them a little slack Cryptic, ok? THX.
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here's the crux of the problem for me. When i go down to some place like lets say nimbus helping a friend. at this point most have started a little tweaking of the crew so u have some different names. u might see one or 2 that still are using default names but....then theres the utter rediculousness of having a hundred tovan khevs running around because even at level 60 when theres no possible way we have not seen the storyline arc a hundred times with the textual reference of tovan khev and rescued his stupid sister countless times and so would miss nothing by seeing our renamed officer calling her sister because, well, we just already know.
I think you answered your own question there - his name is required. Enough said there. Also, I don't think they'd allow the name to be changed even at lvl60, because for Romulans at least the devs know that there is guaranteed to be one story boff on the team. It's entirely possible he'll be used again for some reason, although I haven't heard anything to suggest that.
Also, to prevent several Tovans from running around the instance, just don't bring yours. He's a good ground boff yeah, but you're better off taking a boff with a full set of four excellent ground traits into ground combat anyways.
Tovan being undelteable or customizable is both annoying and useless as far as I am concerned. It is a BOFF slot that is used up and wasted. I'd rather slot another Intel/Command slot officer then this toon.
From what I understand the reason Tovan is not removable or can't have his name changed has something to do with the way he was scripted in each of the Missions that involve him. My guess is each of those missions run some kind of check script to see if Tovan Khev is a part of your crew. If for some reason he wasn't then the mission could not progress. In order to make Tovan Khev removable Cryptic would have to make changes to all of those missions.
I am also guessing that this is why Elisa Flores and whoever the Klingon is (forgot his name) is only voiced in the tutorial. They are not scripted in every mission afterwards like Tovan so you can get rid of them if you choose too.
After his part in the story line is over, I wonder why they can't grey him out, make him unusable, hidden and every romulan gets a Boff slot refunded. He'd technically be a part of the crew but not selectable, "not visible" anymore.
I have a level 1 Rom character that I wanted to try out, but I'm going to delete him because of this. This was all poorly handled and not thought out well at all.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Tovan being undelteable or customizable is both annoying and useless as far as I am concerned. It is a BOFF slot that is used up and wasted. I'd rather slot another Intel/Command slot officer then this toon.
Tovan can be customized. And he can be trained in specializations.
And now that high-end boff training isn't based on trading (Tovan is, of course, untradeable), you can train him with any abilities. If there was a performance issue against him before, it's largely been solved with the new training system.
I think you answered your own question there - his name is required. Enough said there. Also, I don't think they'd allow the name to be changed even at lvl60, because for Romulans at least the devs know that there is guaranteed to be one story boff on the team. It's entirely possible he'll be used again for some reason, although I haven't heard anything to suggest that.
Also, to prevent several Tovans from running around the instance, just don't bring yours. He's a good ground boff yeah, but you're better off taking a boff with a full set of four excellent ground traits into ground combat anyways.
ppl who dont read...THE REQUIREMENT IS WHY I SAY MAKE RENAMING HIM A LEVEL 60 UNLOCK!!
Tovan can be customized. And he can be trained in specializations.
And now that high-end boff training isn't based on trading (Tovan is, of course, untradeable), you can train him with any abilities. If there was a performance issue against him before, it's largely been solved with the new training system.
Either way, Tovan is here and he's staying.
but this isnt about removing him after all. its about a simple rename.
I think you answered your own question there - his name is required. Enough said there. Also, I don't think they'd allow the name to be changed even at lvl60, because for Romulans at least the devs know that there is guaranteed to be one story boff on the team. It's entirely possible he'll be used again for some reason, although I haven't heard anything to suggest that.
As for your follow-up post, I'm not convinced that this is a "simple rename." I don't believe you read some of the other replies in the thread, as two very good points were brought up (emphasis added again):
From what I understand the reason Tovan is not removable or can't have his name changed has something to do with the way he was scripted in each of the Missions that involve him. My guess is each of those missions run some kind of check script to see if Tovan Khev is a part of your crew.
It's very likely that Tovan must exist as-is for the game to recognize him for gameplay purposes - in the original mission path, during mission reply, or in future missions. Something would critically break in the background coding for Romulan players if Tovan is missing, because the devs chose to make him an integral part of player progression.
In all likelihood, this would include changing his name as well. We do have the ability to customize his appearance fully, so that isn't an integral piece. But, I'd expect the name - his identifier - is important, otherwise we would've been given the option to change that as well.
Can I make a simple suggestion to appease both sides in this feud:
Have a means whereby Tovan can be exchanged for a Tovan Duty Officer.
Cryptic wants him on your ship for storyline purposes.
Fine: Let players who dislike him demote him to a DOff that they never have to look at.
The DOff can be traded for a BO version then. The BO version can be traded for a DOff.
The trick then is just to make sure the cutscenes use Tovan's default visuals if you don't have Tovan on your away team.
In general, I favor some means of making non-reclaimable BOs exchangable in the game.
This allows Cryptic to have storyline personnel show up on your ship because they are either BOffs OR DOffs under my proposal. But if you want to roleplay them not being part of your crew, trade the BOff to a DOff version and never give them a second thought except when they show up in a story mission.
And if you're going to stay sane in an MMO, it helps to not necessarily consider a game's story missions "canon" for your character's history (which is impossible with a scripted story in the typical MMO format that many captains you encounter will also have experienced without some kind of serious story MacGuffin like having each player hail from a different alternate universe; and I think that could be cool and would advocate a game like that but it isn't here).
I would actually pay money to be able to blow Kev out an airlock and watch a cutscene of his body explosively decompressing and drifting out into the cosmos. I hate his character and hate that he takes up valuable space on my crew. He serves no useful purpose.
I still don't understand all the hatred for this character, people have some serious issues if this gets you raging uncontrollably.
He is a better Boff than you get from any other faction and he adds to the story line. If you don't like him, don't use him and move on with your life, stop dwelling on this subject. Its really not healthy.
Besides didn't Cryptic give Roms an extra Boff seat a while back to compensate for not being able to get rid of him? So whats the harm. Seriously the game has massive issues and this isn't one of them.
Can I make a simple suggestion to appease both sides in this feud:
Have a means whereby Tovan can be exchanged for a Tovan Duty Officer.
Cryptic wants him on your ship for storyline purposes.
It is more than just storyline reasons. It is how the missions themselves are designed. The BOFF, as Bridge Office, not as just a source of voice commentary or story background, is part of those Romulan missions. And as long as that isn't changed, al so called "work-arounds" aren't any, because they ignore the fundamental, underlying issue.
If there was an "easy" solution, Cryptic would have long made a change.
But there isn't. That's why the new Klingon and Federation starter missions only feature "mandatory" BOFFs up to the part where you can't possibly remove the BOFF in the first place, an are later unused. They knew the approach with Tovan Khev was recieved poorly by some, and there wasn't a better way to do it for them.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It is more than just storyline reasons. It is how the missions themselves are designed. The BOFF, as Bridge Office, not as just a source of voice commentary or story background, is part of those Romulan missions. And as long as that isn't changed, al so called "work-arounds" aren't any, because they ignore the fundamental, underlying issue.
If there was an "easy" solution, Cryptic would have long made a change.
But there isn't. That's why the new Klingon and Federation starter missions only feature "mandatory" BOFFs up to the part where you can't possibly remove the BOFF in the first place, an are later unused. They knew the approach with Tovan Khev was recieved poorly by some, and there wasn't a better way to do it for them.
Predicting next official response by Cryptic to be: "Tovan Khev is the best Bridge Officer ever, and the players love him!"
I've answered this many times. When we made LoR, we had an underlying assumption throughout all the missions that Tovan would be one of your boffs. You would not be able to dismiss him, no matter what - and consequently, all of the content was written and structured with that in mind. We will never be able to allow you to dismiss Tovan, since changing an assumption that fundamental to the construction of many parts of our game is an extremely risky change to make.
K'Gan and Elisa were the 2nd rev of the same concept. We saw that, while many players loved Tovan, many others also wanted to be able to marginalize him - and we allowed that with the K'Gan and Elisa.
I think every time I've answered this question, it's been phrased as "PLEASE DEVS FINALLY GIVE US AN ANSWER". It's been answered, it's just not the answer you wanted.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
That been said, I still would love to shoot Tovan out my torpedo launcher.... But meh!!!!
Comments
Reginald Barclay managed to be pivotal in two franchises across multiple episodes, for example.
I understand there are players who are more into build tuning than plot lines and role play. I don't blame them. But we do need something like the Tovan Khev approach.
agreed with all above, KDF and FED aren't fixed, so shouldn't romulan. New Romulus is more a playground than a homeplanet, and its like they are they because you have to. but just cut them a little slack Cryptic, ok? THX.
Come stand with us in supporting Star Trek: The Animated Series content for STO! (It's canon!) #TASforSTO
Time travel and glass-cannon ships hurt my head and is NOT what Trek is about. Trek is exploration, becoming better as a species, and gaining scientific knowledge while holding on to the traditions that got us where were are.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I think you answered your own question there - his name is required. Enough said there. Also, I don't think they'd allow the name to be changed even at lvl60, because for Romulans at least the devs know that there is guaranteed to be one story boff on the team. It's entirely possible he'll be used again for some reason, although I haven't heard anything to suggest that.
Also, to prevent several Tovans from running around the instance, just don't bring yours. He's a good ground boff yeah, but you're better off taking a boff with a full set of four excellent ground traits into ground combat anyways.
I am also guessing that this is why Elisa Flores and whoever the Klingon is (forgot his name) is only voiced in the tutorial. They are not scripted in every mission afterwards like Tovan so you can get rid of them if you choose too.
I have a level 1 Rom character that I wanted to try out, but I'm going to delete him because of this. This was all poorly handled and not thought out well at all.
Mission Replay.
Got a buddy who's stuck? you can't help him.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Tovan can be customized. And he can be trained in specializations.
And now that high-end boff training isn't based on trading (Tovan is, of course, untradeable), you can train him with any abilities. If there was a performance issue against him before, it's largely been solved with the new training system.
Either way, Tovan is here and he's staying.
ppl who dont read...THE REQUIREMENT IS WHY I SAY MAKE RENAMING HIM A LEVEL 60 UNLOCK!!
but this isnt about removing him after all. its about a simple rename.
Actually, I addressed that. I'll requote myself, with emphasis on the parts you missed.
As for your follow-up post, I'm not convinced that this is a "simple rename." I don't believe you read some of the other replies in the thread, as two very good points were brought up (emphasis added again):
It's very likely that Tovan must exist as-is for the game to recognize him for gameplay purposes - in the original mission path, during mission reply, or in future missions. Something would critically break in the background coding for Romulan players if Tovan is missing, because the devs chose to make him an integral part of player progression.
In all likelihood, this would include changing his name as well. We do have the ability to customize his appearance fully, so that isn't an integral piece. But, I'd expect the name - his identifier - is important, otherwise we would've been given the option to change that as well.
Have a means whereby Tovan can be exchanged for a Tovan Duty Officer.
Cryptic wants him on your ship for storyline purposes.
Fine: Let players who dislike him demote him to a DOff that they never have to look at.
The DOff can be traded for a BO version then. The BO version can be traded for a DOff.
The trick then is just to make sure the cutscenes use Tovan's default visuals if you don't have Tovan on your away team.
In general, I favor some means of making non-reclaimable BOs exchangable in the game.
This allows Cryptic to have storyline personnel show up on your ship because they are either BOffs OR DOffs under my proposal. But if you want to roleplay them not being part of your crew, trade the BOff to a DOff version and never give them a second thought except when they show up in a story mission.
And if you're going to stay sane in an MMO, it helps to not necessarily consider a game's story missions "canon" for your character's history (which is impossible with a scripted story in the typical MMO format that many captains you encounter will also have experienced without some kind of serious story MacGuffin like having each player hail from a different alternate universe; and I think that could be cool and would advocate a game like that but it isn't here).
Dead man walking.
To be Airlocked. :P
Waste of Space.
Must Kill Tovan. :rolleyes:
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
He is a better Boff than you get from any other faction and he adds to the story line. If you don't like him, don't use him and move on with your life, stop dwelling on this subject. Its really not healthy.
Besides didn't Cryptic give Roms an extra Boff seat a while back to compensate for not being able to get rid of him? So whats the harm. Seriously the game has massive issues and this isn't one of them.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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Make tovan an NPC plz...
Its keeping me from playing my rommie charas...
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
do not rebirth.
worse then bieber.
vaporize tovan khev.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Alternatively, allow us to display him in an unending agony booth session in our trophy rooms.
If there was an "easy" solution, Cryptic would have long made a change.
But there isn't. That's why the new Klingon and Federation starter missions only feature "mandatory" BOFFs up to the part where you can't possibly remove the BOFF in the first place, an are later unused. They knew the approach with Tovan Khev was recieved poorly by some, and there wasn't a better way to do it for them.
Predicting next official response by Cryptic to be: "Tovan Khev is the best Bridge Officer ever, and the players love him!"
FCT link:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1162461
Tovan Khev official answer: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17871881&postcount=33
That been said, I still would love to shoot Tovan out my torpedo launcher.... But meh!!!!