test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

plasma nerf

sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
hi,

my fed sci cpatain has a full plasma build (rom plasma beams; embassy consoles-5-, crafting torp); should i change everything?

i spent a lot of time + dil to create this build, and i would be really pissed off, if the incoming nerf destroys this build

i read the article, but i need explanations :P thx
Post edited by sennahcherib on
«1

Comments

  • theredcomettheredcomet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Explain. Are you talking about the plasma consoles that didn't apply to plasma weapons?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Talking about this bit?
    tk79 wrote: »
    The tooltip suggests it is a switch, which I think is confusing -- as in no longer enhancing Plasma Energy Weapons to enhance only Plasma-based Exotic Damage.

    It's not inaccurate. This is exactly what's being changed.

    Here, let me summarize (and hopefully clarify) the full scope of the changes we're planning to make:

    - The Plasma DOT has been replaced with a Plasma Explosion that deals all of its damage in a single hit, instead of spread out over a 15sec DOT effect
    - The damage dealt by this Plasma Explosion is equivalent to 4x the previous damage of the DOT
    - The damage dealt by these Consoles can no longer be increased by Consoles or most other Passive effects. (Temporary buffs such as Attack Pattern Alpha will still improve the Plasma Explosion damage)
    - The Plasma Explosion can be triggered by all energy types, instead of only working with non-Plasma weapons.
    - The +Plasma Damage bonus gained from these consoles now only affects Exotic Damage abilities (e.g., Eject Warp Plasma, or Plasma Shockwave)
    It's nice to see you all excited/concerned about these changes, but I think I'm being sucked into a Black Hole of questions... this might be the last round I can spare the time to answer. For more info, I suggest waiting until these changes hit Tribble, then giving them a try for yourself.
    tk79 wrote: »
    shield-bypassing Plasma Explosion?

    Yes. The current proc bypasses shields as well - we couldn't very well remove that functionality.
    tk79 wrote: »
    chances stack from multiple consoles? (As in, 3x consoles would roll the 2.5% chance three times per shot, which, if all three trigger = three explosions?)

    Yes.

    But it's important to note that this rebuild addresses an unintended behavior we were seeing, where if one Console activated, ALL of your equipped consoles would go off. The rebuild rolls this change individually for each Console. So while you can get 3, 4, or 5 Plasma Explosions on a single hit, the odds are exceedingly unlikely.
    strorus wrote: »
    I take it the actual DoT from Plasma weapons remains unchanged

    These changes refer only to the Embassy Plasma Consoles. We're not altering the behavior of existing Plasma procs.
    Is that 4x the damage the dot does in 1s or 15s?

    The full 15sec value.

    So, the new damage should be approximately:

    Old Damage-per-tick * 15 * 4

    Base value, of course. Not taking Skills into account.

    robdmc wrote: »
    How was the 4x the original dot decided on?

    By performing a series of equations and combat log parses to determine the average benefit that Plasma Weapons were receiving from the passive benefits that these Consoles used to grant. It just happened to work out to a round number (it was actually about 3.93x, but we're rounding it up).
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    i mean: plasma dot removed + the embassy consoles: currently i use 5 MK XIV ptrg + pla consoles

    if i have read correctly, these consoles will stop boosting the plasma weapons?

    well it seems that i'm going to change for AP. the only energy sponsorized by cryptic
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I read it as they fixed it rather than nerf.

    Whether this comes under the Cryptic patented SWN method, is a different story...
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    i meant plasma damage boost: add dps to the weapons. it's very important for my nebula with 2 tac consoles even if this ship do almost all its damages with the exotic damages
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    deokkent wrote: »
    Could be wrong but those embassy never boosted plasma dots of plasma weapons in the first place. That DoT was for non plasma weapons? Yeah, 80% sure. Also the DoT was not removed, just fixed as it was not working as intended.

    [Pla] boosts all Plasma damage (Energy DD, Energy DoT, Projectile DoT, and Exotic).

    It's being changed only to affect Exotic.

    The DoT is being removed and replaced with a DD.
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 748 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The originally intended purpose of the Embassy console that enhanced plasma damage was as a secondary way of boosting the damage of your plasma weapons. This also affected the 'plasma burn proc' of plasma weaponry - both energy and projectile.

    The Dev reaction to the exploit more or less nerfs the embassy [Pla] consoles for the people that were using it as intended. Which I don't think is very classy and it mostly hinders the people that were not cheating. 50 000 fleet credit (multiple times) was not a trivial investment.

    The [pla] boost also affecting exotic sources of plasma damage as well as the others mentioned in my first paragraph would've been nice. But only exotic sources of plasma? Let's just say that I'm not appreciative of being taken down along with the exploiters. :(
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    umaeko wrote: »
    The originally intended purpose of the Embassy console that enhanced plasma damage was as a secondary way of boosting the damage of your plasma weapons. This also affected the 'plasma burn proc' of plasma weaponry - both energy and projectile.

    The Dev reaction to the exploit more or less nerfs the embassy [Pla] consoles for the people that were using it as intended. Which I don't think is very classy.

    Yeah, the proposed changes blew my mind. Obviously some tweaking needed to be done for the Mk XIII/Mk XIV stuff cause of the scaling of the DoT. Which, well, isn't that what they did with the change they did, right? But with the proposed continued changes they're looking at...meh...
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    don't forget the dil price of 5 consoles MK XII, upgraded to MK XIV + the MK XIV beams useless now. thx to the nerf company
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 748 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I am not sorry they rebalanced the Mk XIII / XIV potency of the console proc. That was clearly wrong.

    I am not sorry for the people that purchased Mk XIV beams to take advantage of this exploit. Your +Beam consoles have not been nerfed - they enhance all beam-type weapons just as much as they did before. They just don't enhance a console proc anymore.

    Basically, Sennah, you gripping here shows that you're one of the exploiters that provocked the nerf to the plasma embassy consoles down from even its original purpose. I have no pity for you.

    I do wish that forms of enhancing plasma damage would affect the new direct-damage proc of the console... but I do get why it is not so. For one, +Beam is liable to affect plasma sources of damage and thus be complicated to fix up. Also, it makes the proc equally valuable for all weapon types.

    I don't care for the proc being enhanced by tactical captain powers, and not other captain powers (for example, sensor analysis). If that would have been the case, I would have rather they been unaffected by any enhancement in order to not only be equally useful to all weapons, but also all carreers.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    umaeko wrote: »
    Basically, Sennah, you gripping here shows that you're one of the exploiters that provocked the nerf to the plasma embassy consoles down from even its original purpose. I have no pity for you.

    But the OP's complaint isn't about using [Pla] with some AP beams and +Beam consoles...
    hi,

    my fed sci cpatain has a full plasma build (rom plasma beams; embassy consoles-5-, crafting torp); should i change everything?

    i spent a lot of time + dil to create this build, and i would be really pissed off, if the incoming nerf destroys this build


    i read the article, but i need explanations :P thx



    ...it's about using [Pla] with some RomPlas and the Particle Emission torp.

    Their complaint is they're getting nerfed cause of what others did with those AP beams and +Beam consoles.

    Cause those [Pla] will no longer boost the Energy DD nor Energy DoT of their RomPlas and will not boost the Projectile DoT on the Particle Emission torp.

    So having upgraded those [Pla] consoles, having upgraded those +Plasma consoles, upgrading the RomPlas weapons, upgrading the torp...etc, etc, etc...
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 748 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Oh. Sorry.

    I misread. I didn't think Sennah up there was the opening poster, just someone whom was making a quip in the thread because the +Beam console he'd obtained to take advantage of the exploit were now of no use.

    I fail at thread awareness. Thanks for standing up for him, virusdancer. That was wrong of me.

    Though, the +Beam consoles are still at no loss, since the change pretty much like doesn't have them affecting the embassy [pla] proc. He can use them to pretty easily change energy types without much of a loss. (unless he bought +Beam tac consoles only to benefit from the way it affected the proc when he already had +pla vulnerability exploiters before )

    The Embassy [pla] console and the plasma damage nerf is the problem. Though direct-damage proc itself is not something I consider bad, though I'll miss being able to see it stack on an opponent and see the plasma burn trails.
  • geekguy79geekguy79 Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    That kinda sucks. I too actually use Plasma weapons, and use these embassy consoles for the sole purpose of boosting actual plasma weapon base dmg, that is being completely removed/changed to only boosting plasma exotic dmg. So my entire reason for using them is gone. This is an uneeded fix to them, since people actually using plasma weapons never were even doing plasma doping, but now we taking the hit too.
  • rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It's actually relegated Plasma weaponry down to below that of almost all others. Sad really as my 30K Rom Plas Scimitar is now languishing at about 15-20K with the nerf (PLA Locators and only a single Embassy console).

    Ah well upgrades are getting there so I've given up caring. I'll just run a different colour beam instead now.
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
  • theredcomettheredcomet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'm confused. How did this affect plasma weapon users? (who couldn't use plasma doping anyway)
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 748 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    geekguy79 basically has the right of it. The move penalizes most the people whom used plasma weapons without exploiting.

    Because the original point of the Embassy [pla] console wasn't plasma doping. It was a modest boost to all the plasma damage one ship could dish out.

    A plasma tactical console could contribute, say, +25ish to plasma, while am Embassy [pla] console would give +10 to plasma too along with the science skill boost and the threat reduction/increase.

    And the reaction to plasma doping was to remove all of that entirely, in favor of boosting the few things that actually inflict exotic plasma damage.
  • kozar2kozar2 Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    umaeko wrote: »
    geekguy79 basically has the right of it. The move penalizes most the people whom used plasma weapons without exploiting.

    Because the original point of the Embassy [pla] console wasn't plasma doping. It was a modest boost to all the plasma damage one ship could dish out.

    A plasma tactical console could contribute, say, +25ish to plasma, while am Embassy [pla] console would give +10 to plasma too along with the science skill boost and the threat reduction/increase.

    And the reaction to plasma doping was to remove all of that entirely, in favor of boosting the few things that actually inflict exotic plasma damage.

    Yep it makes you wonder why spend anything on upgrading when they can simply change the item you upgraded to take away the effect. There were much simpler solutions to the doping that would have left the consoles working properly.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    umaeko wrote: »
    geekguy79 basically has the right of it. The move penalizes most the people whom used plasma weapons without exploiting.

    Because the original point of the Embassy [pla] console wasn't plasma doping. It was a modest boost to all the plasma damage one ship could dish out.

    A plasma tactical console could contribute, say, +25ish to plasma, while am Embassy [pla] console would give +10 to plasma too along with the science skill boost and the threat reduction/increase.

    And the reaction to plasma doping was to remove all of that entirely, in favor of boosting the few things that actually inflict exotic plasma damage.

    Yeah I'm feeling a little bit punished. I've been using a plasma build for a long time along with the embassy consoles to boost said plasma damage and the proposed changes...well honestly they TRIBBLE me off. I better switch to ap like everyone else. Blah...:(
    Tza0PEl.png
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    umaeko wrote: »
    geekguy79 basically has the right of it. The move penalizes most the people whom used plasma weapons without exploiting.

    Because the original point of the Embassy [pla] console wasn't plasma doping. It was a modest boost to all the plasma damage one ship could dish out.

    A plasma tactical console could contribute, say, +25ish to plasma, while am Embassy [pla] console would give +10 to plasma too along with the science skill boost and the threat reduction/increase.

    And the reaction to plasma doping was to remove all of that entirely, in favor of boosting the few things that actually inflict exotic plasma damage.

    That's exactly how I built my 30k jhec..
    And now ill be punished for the abuse run by crtD AP/+Beam console exploiters.

    Those consoles were very expensive, both in Dil and Fleet Credit.
    They took a ton of effort to aquire. I'm pretty upset about losing that base dmg bonus....I've got 5 consoles with +11.7% plasma dmg. But not anymore..

    Gone because of APs.... Its just another kick in futz...

    Look what they did to Polarized Tetryons (10%) proc beam.
    They're complete trash now. And make tetyrons completely useless.
    At least with the 10% proc I had some intrest in the weapon type...but now, no way.
    Oh and the 2 polarized tet beams I had previously upgraded to mkxiv, are now changed to 5%...couldn't even keep the ones I had already paid into.


    Bout time I dust off my tac...and get on the AP train.
    Resistance is futile.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'm confused. How did this affect plasma weapon users? (who couldn't use plasma doping anyway)

    The new consoles won't boost actual plasma energy damage anymore.

    So people who were using the consoles for the actual intended purpose had that taken away because of the dopers' abuse.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Don't you know anyone and everyone is supposed to use AP? :P

    Sadly feels more like this every single day as we get closer to the AP Torpedo. :(
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Crytpic has a proven record of taking the most heavy handed approach possible.

    They will always punish the majority over the actions of the minority.

    I avoided 'Plasma Doping' because I knew that it would be a waste of resources since it was obviously getting a nerf. I don't feel bad for anyone that spent resources on these builds at all, it was obviously not working as intended.

    While I'm disappointed to hear that now my Romulan Captain that followed all the rules and didn't partake in this practice now gets punished as well, I can't say it surprises me.

    I really wish Cryptic would get of this ridiculous 'nerf everything' trip that they have been on. Since the release of DR especially, it's been getting worse and worse. They don't even look for other options, they just flat nerf everything and don't care who gets screwed in the process.

    Is it enough to completely abandon your plasma build and start over? No, it's not. Plasma will remain one of the best damage types in the game, but it is a slight hit.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'm really disappointed by this. I used these consoles to boost the damage of plasma weapons. I used them as they were intended to be used. And then plasma dopers come and ruin it for everyone. And true to form, Cryptic punishes the people who were doing the right thing.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They seriously need to update the tooltip if this change is going to stay. As it reads currently it is extremely misleading and newbie players looking for a boost will go and waste resources on consoles that won't do what they think.

    I only ever used the consoles for the threat control and a minor plasma damage addition to my energy weapons (AP or Polaron, depending on the ship). I didn't do the doping as it was clearly going to get hit with a nerfbat at some point.

    In fairness though I can't really feel too upset about this change. Plasma energy should really get the exact same buffs from items as any other energy type. So that means from tac consoles plus the extra 2.5% plasma proc you get from the embassy consoles if slotted as well. By giving a boost to plasma damage as well you were allowing players to buff their weapon's with both tac & sci consoles, effectively giving a large bias to plasma users.
    If those were consoles that boosted AP damage instead I think we'd see plenty of complaints it was unfair.
    This just balances it out across all energy types.
    SulMatuul.png
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    They seriously need to update the tooltip if this change is going to stay. As it reads currently it is extremely misleading and newbie players looking for a boost will go and waste resources on consoles that won't do what they think.

    I only ever used the consoles for the threat control and a minor plasma damage addition to my energy weapons (AP or Polaron, depending on the ship). I didn't do the doping as it was clearly going to get hit with a nerfbat at some point.

    In fairness though I can't really feel too upset about this change. Plasma energy should really get the exact same buffs from items as any other energy type. So that means from tac consoles plus the extra 2.5% plasma proc you get from the embassy consoles if slotted as well. By giving a boost to plasma damage as well you were allowing players to buff their weapon's with both tac & sci consoles, effectively giving a large bias to plasma users.
    If those were consoles that boosted AP damage instead I think we'd see plenty of complaints it was unfair.
    This just balances it out across all energy types.

    I may be mistaken but I believe that that the original purpose of the buff was because there are a lot of shields that have resists to plasma weapons, primarily because the Borg use it. Without the buff there are too many resists to make it competitive with other weapon types.
  • geekguy79geekguy79 Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    This just balances it out across all energy types.

    If they really wanted all weapon types balanced, they'd make the extra crit sev of AP a 2.5% chance to do it too, not apply to EVERY crit as it does now. Boy I bet the AP fanboys would hate that.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I may be mistaken but I believe that that the original purpose of the buff was because there are a lot of shields that have resists to plasma weapons, primarily because the Borg use it. Without the buff there are too many resists to make it competitive with other weapon types.

    Well this may be true I imagine most people these days use the fleet resilient...I doubt many use the MACO as it interferes with the Leech, I doubt many if any use the Borg or Omega because they're regenerative, And I can't speak for the KHG though I don't imagine many use it either.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    geekguy79 wrote: »
    If they really wanted all weapon types balanced, they'd make the extra crit sev of AP a 2.5% chance to do it too, not apply to EVERY crit as it does now. Boy I bet the AP fanboys would hate that.

    True...but it would also make it the weakest proc in the game.

    Wasn't AP originally to have a shield ignoring proc? Essentially something like what the Romulan console proc is being changed to? The devs back then thought it would be op? Well why not visit back to that?
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Well this may be true I imagine most people these days use the fleet resilient...I doubt many use the MACO as it interferes with the Leech, I doubt many if any use the Borg or Omega because they're regenerative, And I can't speak for the KHG though I don't imagine many use it either.

    How does it interfere with the leech?

    I must admit I use it for the heavy graviton beam or whatever it's called. It can be great for disrupting another player if used at the right moment.
Sign In or Register to comment.