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  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    sheepsship wrote: »
    I know that is not the topic of this thread, but can anyone tell me why the owners of the old Jem'Hadar ships are so upset about the new T6 ship? I started playing the game again 2 month ago after 1 1/2 years of not playing, was there any promise Cryptic made when the old ships came out?

    They also promised to upgrade it to "T6 Capabilities" ... yet many people (including Cryptic, so it seems) claim T5U = T6 Capabilities, just because of the additional "Console Slot" ... ignoring the actual T6 ABILITY/TRAIT for some reason ... better call Saul, I guess :P

    It's basically bickering over ONE word, to save face ... so now we got "1 BUG with T6 Capabilties" & "1 BUG T6"
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • sheepsshipsheepsship Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They also promised to upgrade it to "T6 Capabilities" ... yet many people (including Cryptic, so it seems) claim T5U = T6 Capabilities, just because of the additional "Console Slot" ... ignoring the actual T6 ABILITY/TRAIT ... better call Saul, I guess :P

    ok ic, thx for explaining
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They say you get lobi, but in 25 boxes I have only earned 26 lobi.
    Everything I've read on this says you should get 10 lobi per box.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually awarding 1/10th as much lobi as they claimed it would.

    But to get the ship reliably probably takes upwards of 1000 individual packs; at 4 packs for $10, that prices it at about $250, which seems analogous to the lockbox pricing.
    sheepsship wrote: »
    I know that is not the topic of this thread, but can anyone tell me why the owners of the old Jem'Hadar ships are so upset about the new T6 ship?
    The exchange campers are upset. They bought and drove up the price of the JHAS, and now they're upset that their little market has collapsed. Even in cases where they paid less than whatever price the JHAS settles at, they could have made more EC investing in something else.

    There's no need to feel any sympathy. AH features have done more to ruin this generation of MMOs than they've done to help them.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,497 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    suzy32 wrote: »
    It all random luck to get a ship.

    Vaadwaur lockbox, I ground out the ec to buy a key, got the ship.

    Last promotion regarding the Elachi dreadnought ship, got it on my second try.

    All other lock box, or promotions, - 0 - That's Z-E-R-O luck.

    My only advise to people is to make peace with not getting the current ship, or get used to just KEEP spending all sorts of money till you get it. Cryptic and PWE's hoping you choose the latter, but reason suggests you should choose the former.

    ESPECIALLY considering how this ship's predecessor ended up on the "richter scale" of things.....:rolleyes:
    tumblr_o2aau3b7nh1rkvl19o1_400.gif








  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 7,323 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I wonder if OP opened some lock boxes instead of R&D boxes?

    Or bought "normal" R&D boxes off of the exchange? Old R&D boxes purchased before the event or that came from inside lock boxes do not give lobi or give you a chance at the JHSS.

    Only lockboxes purchased from the zen store as of today include the lobi and the 1 in 200(?) chance at the ship.
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The exchange campers are upset. They bought and drove up the price of the JHAS, and now they're upset that they could have made much more EC investing in something else.

    There's no need to feel any sympathy. AH features have done more to ruin this generation of MMOs than they've done to help them

    Head - Wall ... because the new BUG won't be subject to ridiculous "AH - Speculation" ... Cryptic just introduced an entire new & even sillier opportunity for them ... why would anyone of these guys be upset ... seriously know your enemy ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    because the new BUG won't be subject to ridiculous "AH- Speculation" ...
    Of course it will.

    This is just a setback for the exchange campers; it's one the can afford to absorb, even if they whine about it.
    why would anyone of these guys be upset ...
    They and those fools who bought into that insane pricing are the only ones who have any reason to complain.

    Realistically, even players who bought into the pricing no doubt expected the ship to be eclipsed at some point.

    I'm certain the most vocal complainers on this issue are the ones who have multiple unopened JHAS sitting in their inventory. They're watching billions of EC vanish from their portfolios.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Estimate based on a rate of 0.5% for lockboxes, adjusted to 1% for R&D packs based on price:

    ...25% chance to see it drop within 28 boxes.
    ...33% chance to see it drop within 40 boxes.
    ...50% chance to see it drop within 68 boxes.
    ...66% chance to see it drop within 109 boxes.
    ...75% chance to see it drop within 138 boxes.
    ...99% chance to see it drop within 458 boxes.

    There should be an average acquisition cost of around $250 or 25,000 ZEN, assuming people buy the 1k packs.

    On average, you would expect to see one in a hundred R&D packs. You might see one in your first pack or not see one in a million packs. But if you could see all packs being opened by all players, you would probably see around one for every 100 packs opened.
  • infydelinfydel Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They're watching billions of EC vanish from their portfolios.


    oh no, not their portfolios!
    Vulcans are MEAN
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They and those fools who bought into that insane pricing are the only ones who have any reason to complain.

    Meh I can think of another group of people ... People who actually believe in what Cryptic is saying, without bickering over one word, which could mean something else ...

    It's like someone whispering NOT after every sentence, or crossing fingers behind his back ... it's getting annoying at this point ... ever heard of The Boy Who Cried Wolf ? ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • sovereign010sovereign010 Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I am just wondering as I have now opened 25 R&D boxes and have not mangaed to obtain the new Jem ship. They say you get lobi, but in 25 boxes I have only earned 26 lobi. This doens't sound right given the information stated on the news release.

    Is the damn thing borken? Or do I just need to buy another 25 R&D boxes to and try again? What then? Another 25?

    Sorry, but I think this is a scam of epic proportions. Each box costs $3.00 (or 300 zen) and while you can spend $10.00 for 4 boxes, you still get the shaft because as I have said, I am up to 25 boxes now and have nothing to show for it but depleted Zen. (I had the zen and figured why the hell not.)

    Now I am out of zen and don't want to buy any more so there I am. I do believe I have been scammed.

    Shame of you Crypitic for getting my hopes up with false odds and fusssy math.

    There's a city in the desert with pretty lights for people like you.
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Meh I can think of another group of people ... People who actually believe in what Cryptic is saying, without bickering over one word, which could mean something else ...

    It's like someone whispering NOT after every sentence, or crossing fingers behind his back ... it's getting annoying at this point ... ever heard of The Boy Who Cried Wolf ? ...
    Would you care to elaborate? I'm not following your reasoning.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • baconmaesterbaconmaester Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I am just wondering as I have now opened 25 R&D boxes and have not mangaed to obtain the new Jem ship. They say you get lobi, but in 25 boxes I have only earned 26 lobi. This doens't sound right given the information stated on the news release.

    Is the damn thing borken? Or do I just need to buy another 25 R&D boxes to and try again? What then? Another 25?

    Sorry, but I think this is a scam of epic proportions. Each box costs $3.00 (or 300 zen) and while you can spend $10.00 for 4 boxes, you still get the shaft because as I have said, I am up to 25 boxes now and have nothing to show for it but depleted Zen. (I had the zen and figured why the hell not.)

    Now I am out of zen and don't want to buy any more so there I am. I do believe I have been scammed.

    Shame of you Crypitic for getting my hopes up with false odds and fusssy math.

    Shame on them for your poor financial decisions? Who pays for 25 boxes and then gets mad because the KNOWN RNG system didnt give you what you wanted?
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Who pays for 25 boxes and then gets mad because the KNOWN RNG system didnt give you what you wanted?
    The real issue here is that he got only 26 lobi off 25 packs, when all the promotional material says you should get 10 lobi per pack.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Would you care to elaborate? I'm not following your reasoning.

    It's hard to take them seriously anymore ... if every word might mean something else ... they advertised the "old" Bug Ship ... with "upgradable to T6 Capabilities" during the last Promotion ... now it's T5U and the word Capabilities was meant to imply it ...

    Maybe the Command Cruisers, are not the real Command Cruisers, which will be released in 2 months, because it doesn't say real-Uber-Command Cruisers ... :P
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It's hard to take them seriously anymore ... if every word might mean something else ... they advertised the "old" Bug Ship ... with "upgradable to T6 Capabilities" during the last Promotion ... now it's T5U and the word Capabilities was meant to imply it ...
    I feel like the expression, "fool me once..." is relevant here.

    Because it's gotta be like the Nth time they've gone back on their word, or conveniently ignored a promise made earlier.

    Anyway, if you're willing to support 95% of Cryptic's money grabs, you shouldn't have expected the JHAS to be any different. Those players who really thought this time it would be different can accept it like they do everything else, or come join the dark side.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Anyway, if you're willing to support 95% of Cryptic's money grabs, you shouldn't have expected the JHAS to be any different. Those players who really thought this time it would be different can accept it like they do everything else, or come join the dark side.

    Well sure I guess ... it's a shame though ... not really a a good business model, if customers are always afraid of being backstabbed ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • baconmaesterbaconmaester Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Head - Wall ... because the new BUG won't be subject to ridiculous "AH - Speculation" ... Cryptic just introduced an entire new & even sillier opportunity for them ... why would anyone of these guys be upset ... seriously know your enemy ...

    Even if they can make a great deal of profit off of the new Bug. Theyll still be losing out on their investments on the old Bug. Sure theyll be able to weather the change as they probably have more then one investment type on the exchange. But the loss of potentially millions, even billions of EC will get under their skin. Even if its relatively a drop in the bucket to their continuous earnings. It might just be EC but they didnt become the filthy EC Rich by losing money.
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Well sure I guess ... it's a shame though ... not really a a good business model, if customers are always afraid of being backstabbed ...
    The original released two years ago. That's a great run in a game which could replace ships bi-annually or more frequent.

    I don't know who Cryptic was trying to placate when they promised that the JHAS would be forever relevant. They enjoyed the high price on the JHAS as much as the exchange campers did. But, I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to argue that the exchange campers have an outsized influence on development. Their economic interests are close enough to the developers' own, and they rarely complain because they're always the best positioned to weather any changes.
    Theyll still be losing out on their investments on the old Bug.
    And worse, they could have made (more) EC investing in something else, like lockbox keys or a rare ship with a highly prized trait or console.

    There's an opportunity cost in having made a decision, and this is one class of players which is keenly aware of economic considerations such as that.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • infydelinfydel Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I feel like the expression, "fool me once..." is relevant here.

    Because it's gotta be like the Nth time they've gone back on their word, or conveniently ignored a promise made earlier.

    Anyway, if you're willing to support 95% of Cryptic's money grabs, you shouldn't have expected the JHAS to be any different. Those players who really thought this time it would be different can accept it like they do everything else, or come join the dark side.

    So what utterly imaginary promise did Cryptic go back on, in your mind? The news article about the ship is quite straightforward, and no part of it appears to be in any way a lie, or even misleading.

    I'll never understand why people complain about other people keeping the game they are playing profitable, and hence in existence.
    Vulcans are MEAN
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    infydel wrote: »
    So what utterly imaginary promise did Cryptic go back on, in your mind?
    I keep hearing about this promise they made before DR, that the JHAS wouldn't be rendered immediately obsolete, or something like that.

    I wasn't here to witness the promise, I don't own a JHAS in any form, I couldn't care less about the new JHSS, and over the last decade of MMO gaming I've come to see the AH mechanic as a major impediment to "fun" (Diablo 3 being a prominent example).

    Btw, what did I say that led you to believe I was complaining about the new ship?
    infydel wrote: »
    The news article about the ship is quite straightforward, and no part of it appears to be in any way a lie, or even misleading.
    Actually, the news article is highly misleading.

    It states that you'll receive 10 lobi per pack; the OP claims he only received ~1 per pack. That's a drastic difference, especially in light of the fact that lobi is the consolation prize which keeps the whole lockbox economy legal (as in real-world legal, as in without lobi or a subtitute the whole thing becomes illegal/gambling).

    I haven't opened a pack, and may not open any during the event, so I can't confirm that this is indeed the case. I'm hoping someone in this thread could confirm that they're getting the appropriate amount of lobi, and that the OP is just being dramatic, but so far no one has done so.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • infydelinfydel Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Btw, what did I say that led you to believe I was complaining about the new ship?

    your words, and the context they are in?
    Vulcans are MEAN
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    infydel wrote: »
    your words, and the context they are in?
    The poster I responded to was belaboring under the assumption you accused me of.

    I could have been nasty about it, making my position clearer in the process, but I'm sure someone else would have felt a need to comment about that.

    Personally, I view Cryptic's word as worthless, just as Cryptic does.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • infydelinfydel Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Actually, the news article is highly misleading.

    It states that you'll receive 10 lobi per pack; the OP claims he only received ~1 per pack. That's a drastic difference, especially in light of the fact that lobi is the consolation prize which keeps the whole lockbox economy legal (as in real-world legal, as in without lobi or a subtitute the whole thing becomes illegal/gambling).

    and that - assuming it happened, since this is the only person I've seen complain about it - is quite obviously a bug.
    Vulcans are MEAN
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    infydel wrote: »
    and that - assuming it happened, since this is the only person I've seen complain about it - is quite obviously a bug.
    And, again assuming it's the case, it's a bug which Cryptic conveniently won't fix this weekend, nor will they retroactively award lobi to anyone who didn't receive the advertised amount.

    And even if they do fix it tomorrow, they still won't retroactively award any lobi to anyone who opened a box already, damn the thousands or tens of thousands in revenue they already collected. I'm sure we'll hear about how the tech can't support such functionality.

    Not without that player contacting the BBB, apparently, and then it's on an individual basis.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • infydelinfydel Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The poster I responded to was belaboring under the assumption you accused me of.

    I could have been nasty about it, making my position clearer in the process, but I'm sure someone else would have felt a need to comment about that.

    That's not how you use the word 'belaboring'; the word you want there is 'laboring'. Perhaps you should stick to using plainer language, since you're obviously not accurately getting your point across.

    You accused Cryptic of breaking a promise (multiple promises, in fact) in a thread about the new ship, in reply to a person who was making similar accusations; I don't see how you can get confused when people take your words at face value.
    And, again assuming it's the case, it's a bug which Cryptic conveniently won't fix this weekend, nor will they retroactively award lobi to anyone who didn't receive the advertised amount.

    And even if they do fix it tomorrow, they still won't retroactively award any lobi to anyone who opened a box already, damn the thousands or tens of thousands in revenue they already collected. I'm sure we'll hear about how the tech can't support such functionality.

    Not without that player contacting the BBB, apparently, and then it's on an individual basis.

    what is your basis for making these sweeping assertions about what Cryptic will do?
    Vulcans are MEAN
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    infydel wrote: »
    You accused Cryptic of breaking a promise (multiple promises, in fact) in a thread about the new ship, in reply to a person who was making similar accusations; I don't see how you can get confused when people take your words at face value.
    How can I accuse Cryptic of breaking a promise I wasn't even aware of?

    True, they have a track record of going back on their word, or ignoring their word, or forgetting entirely their word, and that's all I was offering in support to that guy.
    infydel wrote: »
    what is your basis for making these sweeping assertions about what Cryptic will do?
    Because it's par for the course.

    What makes you think Cryptic would retroactively award missing lobi? What makes you think they even have the capability of doing so?

    And the use of belaboring was fine. Perhaps not the greatest use of it, but hardly inappropriate.

    Incidentally, 46 posts, hardline stance defending Cryptic, lack of supporting evidence...are you a sockpuppet?
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • infydelinfydel Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    How can I accuse Cryptic of breaking a promise I wasn't even aware of?

    True, they have a track record of going back on their word, or ignoring their word, or forgetting entirely their word, and that's all I was offering in support to that guy.
    and I was asking you what promises you were referring to; you still haven't actually mentioned any.

    Because it's par for the course.

    What makes you think Cryptic would retroactively award missing lobi? What makes you think they even have the capability of doing so?
    when have they ever done something like that before? by which I mean, actually refused to reward legitimately purchased items?

    I'd also like to remind you that you are getting super angry about your theoretical Cryptic response to a bug that - so far - only one person has reported experiencing.
    And the use of belaboring was fine. Perhaps not the greatest use of it, but hardly inappropriate.

    I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.
    Incidentally, 46 posts, hardline stance defending Cryptic, lack of supporting evidence...are you a sockpuppet?

    No, just someone who thinks that - if you're going to complain - it helps to have something to actually complain about. Otherwise, you're just indulging in entitled whining.
    Vulcans are MEAN
  • baconmaesterbaconmaester Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    infydel wrote: »
    That's not how you use the word 'belaboring'; the word you want there is 'laboring'. Perhaps you should stick to using plainer language, since you're obviously not accurately getting your point across.

    You accused Cryptic of breaking a promise (multiple promises, in fact) in a thread about the new ship, in reply to a person who was making similar accusations; I don't see how you can get confused when people take your words at face value.



    what is your basis for making these sweeping assertions about what Cryptic will do?

    If you were able to interpret that when he said 'belaboring' and meant 'laboring' then its kind of obvious he wasnt having trouble getting his point across youre just looking for an argument.
  • infydelinfydel Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    If you were able to interpret that when he said 'belaboring' and meant 'laboring' then its kind of obvious he wasnt having trouble getting his point across youre just looking for an argument.

    That's actually a fair point, but the fact that I used my mighty intellect to correctly interpret the meaning behind one inappropriate word choice doesn't mean that other, lesser, people could. If I have a flaw, it's that I'm too helpful.
    Vulcans are MEAN
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