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AP Torpedo - Updated tooltip on blog
devilment666
Member Posts: 112 Arc User
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9079163-crystalline-entity-event
Now we have the updated stats for the AP torp, is it as game-breaking as the knee-jerkers would have us believe?
12 seconds recharge time, with possible reduction to 7s using purple PWO.
Now we have the updated stats for the AP torp, is it as game-breaking as the knee-jerkers would have us believe?
12 seconds recharge time, with possible reduction to 7s using purple PWO.
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The change in damage is curious.
2913.2...hrmm, it was easier to work out the other number.
Rare Mk XII and likely to have 9/9 for the skills. (Yeah, it was Mk XIII before, no?)
0.05
1.2
0.495
0.495
=2.24
2913.2 / 2.24 = 1300
Hrmm...not the 1352 Photon damage that it was previously. Bouncing around a few numbers though, they may not have 9/9 for the skills. Would be pretty to check with the torp in hand...but looking at that tooltip gets into a series of potential guesses.
Going up to a 12 recharge? Meh...that is not an average recharge.
This torp needed buffs...not nerfs. The complaints wouldn't have happened if Cryptic had provided folks with a choice of chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry...cause that's what the majority of the whining was. "A new shiny? But not for me? TRIBBLE EVERYBODY!"
It's pathetic what's become of these forums.
It's pathetic what's become of this species.
STO Screenshot Archive
w/o VR (Crystalline)/UR (both) mods in play
G14 Crystalline
Base: 1352
+9 Starship Weapon Training: +(1352 * ((99 * 0.5) / 100)); +669.24 = 2021.24
+9 Starship Projectile Weapons: +(1352 * ((99 * 0.5) / 100)); +669.24 = 2690.48
+Mk 0->Mk XII: +(1352 * (12 * 0.1)); +1622.4 = 4312.88
+Mk XIII: +(1352 * 0.4); +540.8 = 4853.68
+Mk XIV: +(1352 * 0.7); +946.4 = 5800.08
+Common->UR: +(1352 * (4 * 0.025)); +135.2 = 5935.28
+Epic: +(1352 * 0.05); +67.6 = 6002.88
+[Ac/Dm]: +(1352 * 0.05); +67.6 = 6070.48
+5x G14 AP: +(1352 * (5 * 0.375)); +2535 = 8605.48
G14 Neutronic (just the Kinetic)
Base: 1830
+9 Starship Weapon Training: +(1830 * ((99 * 0.5) / 100)); +905.85 = 2735.85
+9 Starship Projectile Weapons: +(1830 * ((99 * 0.5) / 100)); +905.85 = 3641.7
+Mk 0->Mk XII: +(1830 * (12 * 0.1)); +2196 = 5837.7
+Mk XIII: +(1830 * 0.4); +732 = 6569.7
+Mk XIV: +(1830 * 0.7); +1281 = 7850.7
+Common->UR: +(1830 * (4 * 0.025)); +183 = 8033.7
+Epic: +(1830 * 0.05); +91.5 = 8125.2
+[Ac/Dm]: +(1830 * 0.05); +91.5 = 8216.7
8605.48 vs 8216.7 (not including the Rad, which for me would already push it past the Crystalline)
But there's this other thing. Violent Detonations II and it's -100 Kinetic DRR debuff.
So for hull hits...with the DR% being the pre-VD2 debuff while the damage reflects the debuff.
@0% DR; 8605.48 vs 15800.71
@19.9% DR: 6892.99 vs 12653.72
@40.1% DR: 5151.73 vs 9459.59
@61.2% DR: 3336.82 vs 6127.05
Add in the Bonus boosts including the Critz! Make it a HY3, yeah?
Well, those are just modifiers to the numbers there. Say we had 5x and 3x there for 15x, eh?
Against that 61.2% one, yeah?
50052.3 vs 91905.75
Did somebody hit the target with CF3? That's another 20% for one of those two...not the Crystalline.
Running Kinetic Shearing? That's a 40% DoT for one of those two...not the Crystalline.
But the Neutronic is going to hit those pesky shields and their innate Kinetic Shield Hardness while the AP's not going to do that!
Er...this obviously isn't going to be a Torp boat. AP consoles and all to boost the Crystalline, yeah? So you're looking at Surgical, CRF, BO EWO Pen, etc, etc, etc...and...er...the Rad from the Neut hitting first.
This is a torp that needed a pre-release buff...not a pre-release nerf.
You seem strangely ok with AP's hidden proc of breaking all the rules.
One Omni? Broke that rule, not just once, but twice (two of them free to boot).
Player controls both the vertical and the horizontal? Yup.
Proc isn't useless? Is moar dakka ever useless?
Actual torpedo usable on all ships and not just one specific ugly ship that gets to use energy consoles and not projectile consoles? Check.
And you not surprisingly seem to be freaking out over it. No ones touched it or tested it. And even though virus has done the best he can to figure out the math on it. Theres a number of things we dont know that could throw that math out the window.
But considering hes the only one actually throwing any sort of math around. I think Ill defer to his judgement on it as the only thing you can do is cry foul with nothing to back it up besides pointing out an obvious bug as your proof of the torp being OP.
Rule breaking with the defense of "oh but the numbers suck" is one of the classic ways to slip an exploit past someone.
Man, I've been looking all over the place - and I can't find it. I searched for all the words that I figured would have been in the post, cause I know I damn well typed the post out...but I can't find it - would have just been since the AP torp was announced.
I actually suggested changing AP's "proc" from the +CrtD to some form of additional AP damage. Along the lines of what's seen with the Phased Biomatter and what they're going to be doing with the [Pla] consoles.
I'm not okay with everything else being 2.5% (4.5% with the +2% for some)...and Hell, I typed this all out...meh...while AP's "proc" gets better with more CrtH.
That doesn't change that this torpedo sucks by comparison to the commonly used torps.
And I know that post still has to be there...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22643201#post22643201
...me, yesterday, saying that imho Cryptic should not have made the changes with the Oct 30th patch last year allowing for more than a single Omni. Hell, earlier in the thread I said the 3x ODs is a bug that should be reported if it hasn't (I've taken a vacation on reporting, just bringing up the needed buff to Chrons/Trans/Elachi and TS here and there - Hell, even did that in the reply Bort did to riccardo).
I don't have a favorite color in STO. I don't get butthurt about them doing something that's not my particular flavor. I don't see an AP torp and see red because it's not green (lol, AP...red).
Know what I was flying before the server went down?
Neut, Advanced Thoron DHC, 2x Vaad DHC / 4x Vaad Turrets
Yesterday?
Ferengi Rapid, 7x Vaad Emitters
Day before?
Elachi Torp, Heavy Crescent Cannon, 2x Polarized Disruptor DHCs / Heavy Bio Disruptor Turret, 3x Nanite Disruptor Turrets
Day before?
Particle Emission Torp, 3x Phased Biomatter DHCs / 3x Phaser Turrets, KCB
Day before? Day before? Day before?
Hell, it's usually not even a day before...30 minutes into a play session I might go totally change up weapons. Do I want Phaser Arrays or maybe Bio Disruptor Arrays...maybe Nanite Disruptor Arrays...do I want to run torps instead? How about the Omega, Hyper, Emission, and Corrosive?
Know what I need to pick up? I don't have a set of R-Tets...nor any Voth/Fluidic AP. I'd joked about running some of the Voth or Fluidic with the AP Torp...
I don't have a favorite color in STO...I don't get butthurt about the different flavors they offer stuff in.
I'm not like you with your...
...with everything available already to Plasma...Energy, Kinetic, and Exotic?
LMFAO...seriously.
Plasma, FYI, existed as both Energy consoles and Projectile consoles.
There are plasma energy weapons. There are plasma projectile weapons.
Plasma Energy consoles [standard] do not buff plasma Projectile damage.
Plasma Projectile consoles do not buff plamsa Energy damage.
Are there Phaser torpedoes? Disruptor torpedoes? Polaron torpedoes?
Of all the torpedo types plasma gets way too much love but for any type of torpedo to be boosted by energy consoles it should have been a torpedo that has an the same type in both Energy and Projectile.
LOL wut? WTF not? This strikes me as an odd, punitive nerf.
That's so it can be dropped right in on an AP boat without needing any consoles to be changed.
It's basically an AP energy weapon that uses torpedo boff skills so you can so BO and HY without the shared cooldown of BO and BO.
But why not just make it buffed by everything? I dunno. The torp is only really optimal for AP builds.
So things like the KHG 2pc bonus won't do squat which is kinda...I dunno, lame?
You're meant to be using AP and firing at Will. Duck.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's not even optimal for AP builds. If somebody was going to give up an Energy Weapon for a Torp, the Crystalline Torp wouldn't be the optimal choice based on what they've told us so far.
The only thing it's got going for it is for somebody that doesn't care about performance...Bort's said it's a gorgeous torp in action. Being a guy that likes the visuals of Vaad Polarons and the Ferengi Rapid, I can appreciate something that looks cool but is subpar out the wahzoo. :P
I doubt the devs are that naive.
If things like the KHG 2pc bonus worked on it, and other torpedo bonuses worked on it, on top of energy bonuses double dipping wouldn't even begin to describe what might happen. In the past they could assume that projectile and energy bonuses wouldn't interact and things were designed as such.
As much as "this will never happen" guarantees it will happen, it also guarantees time won't be allotted to preparing for when it does.
Still no statements over what mods it gets at VR and UR, increased CD, and how it functions at HY.
The increased CD would be fine if it was confirmed to gain an [Arc] or [Wide Arc] mod at VR or UR to allow it to be used on broadsiding cruisers or Sci ships that aren't torpedo boats, but it's even less likely to be useful on escorts now due to the increased CD (may as well stick with Neutronic and its 3-pc bonus).
Anyway, I love fun discussions like this, and as a physicist, I appreciate the math, so thanks to Virus for the number-crunching.
"Oh, you're right, and when you're right, you're right, and you, you're always right." - Barf...
CM
I used to think like you, but then realization hit me like a brick in the face.
STO Screenshot Archive
From what I have seen so far on command ships the torpedo is going to be mega powerful. Its like having Beam Overloads to shields every 2 seconds.
If it's supposed to work like a bursty cannon that can use torp abilities, why does it get boosted by projectile skills (as noted on the bottom of the tooltip) and is maybe torp-useless against shields (as the text above stats would imply - but i believe that may be simply the vanilla text that's just not true for this torp)?
Damn, I still don't know whether I'll get it or not... Right now I'm thinking yes, because it'll force me to run some content and actually use my ships. Hasn't really happened for months. But frankly, I won't be doing the event for the torp, not really.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
You'd need to be the only one dropping out torps, would need to be in range of the target to benefit from that CF3's 2s, and once the shields were gone...you're going to be doing subpar damage compared to several other torps.
CF3 at 0 range with the Neutronic is awesomesauce.
Heh, it's fun with the Particle Emission as well...all sorts of torps.
I'm tempted to blow myself up doing it with Trics...lol...could probably pop myself with the Grav. The E-Bio is fun.
But yeah, that gets into that Violent Detonations II, Concentrate Firepower III, some Omega Kinetic Shearing...and just the shredding one can do with Kinetic Torps - that the Crystalline not benefiting from the VD2, the +20% from CF3, or the 40% stackable DoT from OKS....
Personally, I don't see it as a case of going after the torpedo.
"After collecting 14 of them, players can complete a new Event Reputation project to be rewarded with 50,000 Dilithium Ore, 500 Fleet Marks, 250 Marks of their choice (Fleet, Omega, Romulan, Nukara, Dyson, Undine, or Delta Marks), and the new Crystalline Energy Torpedo Launcher!"
I'm going after the 50k Dil, 500 Fleet Marks, 250 Marks of choice...
...and after that:
"BONUS! Once the new, main reputation project is complete, a brand-new bonus 1-Shard project will become available to slot. Completing this will earn players 2,000 Dilithium Ore, 50 Fleet Marks and 35 Marks of their choice (Fleet, Omega, Romulan, Nukara, Dyson, Undine, or Delta Marks)."
Torp or not, I'd be running the event...
As OKS is a space rep trait an energy boat wouldn't likely take that for one not-extremely-OP weapon.
There should be a way to make "classic" mixed load outs less non-optimal but it'd likely take a revamp that would TRIBBLE a lot of people off to do it.
Do something like tie Phasers and Photons together for buffs then playing anything other than official pairing hurts.
Buff the base damage of torpedoes and remove the projectile consoles and you'll likely not buff the torps up to the level torpedo boats did. Buff the base up to torp boat levels and it'll probably cause some PvP issues as well as PvE power creep.
Mine has an odd darkening around it. Makes it appear like a small red dot with a dark field around it.
I believe that was my point! :P
I have 2 toons with AP builds. They both use torps, for better or for worse.
For me to grind ad-nauseum for this, I think torp bonuses SHOULD help it. SO I agree with you, a pre-buff would be appropriate.
Probably I will get it just for the sake of testing it since it is something different.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
My Main runs an AP Build and unless I suddenly decide I dont care about the DPS that Build is putting out. That Torpedo will not be going on my ship.
I am a collector though and will be probably throwing it in the bank or on one of the ships collecting dust in the Shipyard. With all the other cool little trinkets Ive collected over the years but couldnt really use to any great degree.
Anyone that put an AP Build together with the intentions of maximizing their DPS will not be putting this on their build.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22607441&postcount=80
Called it. Most of the thoughts discussed in this thread were brought up in the thread above it, including the, 'end up in the bank collecting dust' part.
If designed properly, they can tune how much damage the AP Spirit Bomb(TM) does (thanks, @spectre907 for the much better name) via coefficients from the AP consoles, or by increasing the base damage.
Virus, as usual, gives us a good approximation of what it can do, with the assumption that this AP-SP follows the rules of a (DBb/Beam array)[Pick one. Why not torp? Because the rules are not consistent across all torps].
So, unless someone gold-plates this and finds some crazy boost to base damage (a la pre-nerfed embassy doping consoles), I don't see this as a general threat to PvP or PvE. There may be one or two crafty individuals who will make use of this, but....
.... we'll see.
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