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dilithium prices rising - any chance to save a game ?

czertik123czertik123 Member Posts: 1,122 Arc User
wen you lok at exnage of dill-zen you will notice that price is relative fats rising over sometime, in short time it will reach price when game was ftp game started.
how to save a game ?
high exchange prices discourage new players to play since they will not have cheap way to buy zen. (it makes difference that if you want to buy item x for y zebn and you have "work" for it 15 or 20 days).
So any idea how to promote player to pump more zen to exchange to decrease price ?
Post edited by czertik123 on
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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Don't think this company understands the concept of "Micro" transactions.
  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    That's what's cryptic already doing. Adding dil sinks pretty much everywhere to make the "buy zen to sell for dil" route more attractive and I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people who actually do that.

    The reason why prices will go through the roof pretty soon is the super-bug promotion. Many will stock up on zen and hope to get it from a r&d pack.
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  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The zen to dilithium ratio is temporary. Keep in mind the 0 Dilithium cost of the Omega Tech upgrades and no new fleet holding reduce the demand for Dilithium. as soon as those upgrades are used and people stock of ore/refined that they accumulated in that time goes down back into those sinks then the prices will go back. the only reason why the Dilithium exchange was the way it was during f2p launch is due to the lack of fleet system or use of dilithium.

    The Dilithium exchange is not a way to measure the health of a game but is showing where the current demand is. The more dilithium sink the more valuable dilithium becomes. Also if some new shiny becomes available in the c-store. Then the more valuable Zen is.
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  • czertik123czertik123 Member Posts: 1,122 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    That's what's cryptic already doing. Adding dil sinks pretty much everywhere to make the "buy zen to sell for dil" route more attractive and I'm pretty sure there are more than enough people who actually do that.

    The reason why prices will go through the roof pretty soon is the super-bug promotion. Many will stock up on zen and hope to get it from a r&d pack.

    well, prices goed up long time before superbug promotion, cheeck dill price history. Problem is that less and less players are selling zen for dill.
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    robdmc wrote: »
    The zen to dilithium ratio is temporary. Keep in mind the 0 Dilithium cost of the Omega Tech upgrades and no new fleet holding reduce the demand for Dilithium. as soon as those upgrades are used and people stock of ore/refined that they accumulated in that time goes down back into those sinks then the prices will go back. the only reason why the Dilithium exchange was the way it was during f2p launch is due to the lack of fleet system or use of dilithium.

    I doubt this is temporary. The exchange price may come down a little eventually but it will never go back to prices around 125-130. Omega tech upgrades are a minor influence and I would be surprised if - on average - more than 10 tech upgrades have been crafted per player. True most fleet holdings are finished but upgrading gear takes such a huge amount of dilithium that it dwarfes everything that was put into people's fleet holdings before. And last but not least Cryptic introduces ship after ship, one sale after the other so currently there's a massive drain of dilithium going on.
    robdmc wrote: »
    The Dilithium exchange is not a way to measure the health of a game but is showing where the current demand is. The more dilithium sink the more valuable dilithium becomes. Also if some new shiny becomes available in the c-store. Then the more valuable Zen is.

    True you can't possibly judge wheither or not a game is healthy just by looking at the dilithium exchange. The only statement one can make is that people converted a lot of dilithium to zen. Most likely to buy new ships, items or to save up for the new R&D promotion.
  • czertik123czertik123 Member Posts: 1,122 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    skollulfr wrote: »
    high exchange prices make it more attractive to buy zen for dil conversion.

    i completly understand it, problem is that dill price is rising for way over one month with no real pumplind of zen to market to reduce price.

    we can speculate about reasons - all who wanted to have fisished fleet upgrades done it and now we have only "dead" upgrades in fleets ?
    players noticed that dill sinks are not worth resources put in ?
    no project worth dill to be put on ?

    and for that guy which told that at start of f2p dill proce was so high since there was no valuable project to spend dill - well, dont you think that we are slowly going to that price after some time, dosnt it showing something ?
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  • myko9myko9 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The rate will increase ever higher, then Cryptic will release a new fleet holding to upgrade T6 ships to fleet, that requires a ton of Dilithium.

    It tends to go in cycles, last time the dilithium rate built up they released the dilithium heavy R&D system. Best thing to do is go counter cyclical, but then you don't get stuff first (game mirrors life).
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2015
    the biggest dil sink is failing ..starbases

    The weapons are now substandard........compared to crafted weapons ground and space only the consoles are still good

    So fewer are buying them more dil available for other uses

    Fleet ships are also becoming substandard so demand for them is less

    more dil to players means selling it for zen buy keys and waste their dil gambling :P
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  • lordvalecortezlordvalecortez Member Posts: 479 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I can remember the days of 350 dil to 1 zen. I can also remember when it was just 85 dil.

    The price has gone up because of the steady release of things that tend to drive up prices; New ships, new lockbox and or key sale, and now the revamped T6 Bug. All of this in a short time span which means the market/ player base hasn't had time to recover. Yeah we had a nice dil week, but the rate of expensive events will keep prices up there for a little while.

    And as has been mentioned, Fleets and their holdings used to be the biggest sinks of all. However, what with free T5 fleet access for all, and the subpar nature of fleet gear, no one is dumping dil into fleets. Given the horrible disaster that is DR, combined with the age of the game, who in their right mind builds up a fleet base anymore?

    (Crazy people like me, but I use alts to get the dil I need, not the exchange.)

    To be fair to Cryptic, at least some high dil rewarding events is being sprinkled in with the cash grabbing. The latest round of CE will probably burn a lot of people out, but it is worth 50k dil on completion. That's 6.25 days of dil.

    Of course, no matter how many dil events Cryptic does give us, ultimately dil is limited by the refinement cap. With people abandoning alts left right and center and concentrating on a main, the flow of dil is going to slow down. That will drive up prices since supply will decrease.

    So expect higher prices from here on out.
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  • gonaliusgonalius Member Posts: 893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    We've just had four events (And post patch, six) that are driving the price upwards - All in about a month.

    20% Services Sale
    New Ship Pack
    Dilithium Week
    20% Ship Sale


    And upcoming:

    R&D Promotion
    Crystalline 50k Dil Payout


    And only two (minor) events to drive the price down:

    15% Zen Promotion
    Zen First Time Buyers Pack


    So it makes sense that prices have risen.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Lol I was just thinking this morning about these hilariously clueless whines about exchange prices and where they fit on the top 3 funniest complaints on the forums. :D

    Hint: Look up "supply and demand," people.

    Bonus points for someone already posting the silly "dil exchange is fake and Cryptic sets the prices" -conspiracy theory. :rolleyes:
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The Exchange rate of getting more Dilithium per zen is good of for the game.
    People who support the game by paying for DIL is more likely to make second purchase now.
    This is because they are getting more Dilithium per the all mighty dollar.
    Because the game is not centered around the none paying Players they needs are not a concern.
    That concern is to play a free game, earn rewards quickly and get stuff for free.
    For the model to work right the market should favor the paying player and require more effort form F2P in game.
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  • gonaliusgonalius Member Posts: 893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The Exchange rate of getting more Dilithium per zen is good of for the game.
    People who support the game by paying for DIL is more likely to make second purchase now.
    This is because they are getting more Dilithium per the all mighty dollar.
    Because the game is not centered around the none paying Players they needs are not a concern.
    That concern is to play a free game, earn rewards quickly and get stuff for free.
    For the model to work right the market should favor the paying player and require more effort form F2P in game.

    Except that if all the non-payers quit the game due to rising exchange prices, the price will plummet, making the paying players quit... And bringing back the non-paying driving the price back up which would....

    Both paying and non-paying exist in a symbiotic relationship, each needing the other.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It's like the stories of the tricky genies granting wishes. They gave players what they asked for...only those players didn't think about what they were asking for...meh. Just what did they think would happen to the Exchange rate, eh? Oh that's right...they didn't think.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited March 2015

    The events and promos in 2015 are just exactly like the ones in the first quarter of 2014.

    At last mirror was reworked and new last year this time - 1 week.

    Only suprise this time will be bugs, crashes and conectivity issues.

    Edit: please cancel the word surprise in the last sentence.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It's an exchange rate. Its not "good" or "bad," it just reflects the current subjective value of Zen and dilithium in average.

    That's why the free market dilithium exchange is superior to other games where the currency is sold at a fixed price. The exchange rate naturally evolves so it remains optimal for trading, both ways.

    If the price is "too low" (=less than what the players in genera think its worth), it will go up because people will buy it out. And if it's "too high," it will go down because people sell more.
  • baconmaesterbaconmaester Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    gonalius wrote: »
    Except that if all the non-payers quit the game due to rising exchange prices, the price will plummet, making the paying players quit... And bringing back the non-paying driving the price back up which would....

    Both paying and non-paying exist in a symbiotic relationship, each needing the other.

    If anyone quits because of a temporary fluxuation in the dil exchange that benefits Zen buyers then theyre idiots.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Certainly the 30+ point rise speaks to how many people want this new bug ship. Which is kind of sad - but true.

    In any event the problem is the creep has crept back into the exchange, meaning I doubt we'll go below 180 now when this promo is over.

    The correct price is 130. The price where no one will grind anymore is somewhere between 200 and 250.

    Fleet holding is the only real chance now to see prices go down to a reasonable level. I guess we can expect that either in May or early summer.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Cryptic will ensure that there is always something you need Dilithium for, and always something that you need Zen for.

    But when they put something new out that needs a lot of Dilithium, then Dilithium will get more expensive, and if they put out somethnig new that needs a lot of Zen, then Zen will get more expensive.

    It will lead to fluctuation and I suppose a smart person can gain a neat net earning if he buys and sells anti-cyclical.


    I would not be surprised if Season 10 will bring us a new fleet holding or something like that so we can get Tier 6 Fleet ships - that will make Dilithium more desirable again. Cryptic might actually need to pump up some more Zen-Store items and special sales to compensate...

    Of course, all that is pure speculation. I think we only know for certain that Season 10 will bring the sector space revamp (which is Dil/Zen neutral).
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The correct price is 130. The price where no one will grind anymore is somewhere between 200 and 250.
    No, thats what you want it to be, and the point at which you won't grind anymore (or so you say now).

    The "correct" price is whatever the free market says it it. At the moment, looks like its 199.

    As someone already pointed out the price was between 300-400 before season 6. People still traded, because that was what it was worth back then. There will only be a problem if the price hits the caps (25 or 500) because then it would no longer be possible to trade at the fair market price. But to my knowledge that has never happened.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    warpangel wrote: »
    No, thats what you want it to be, and the point at which you won't grind anymore (or so you say now).

    The "correct" price is whatever the free market says it it. At the moment, looks like its 199.

    As someone already pointed out the price was between 300-400 before season 6. People still traded, because that was what it was worth back then. There will only be a problem if the price hits the caps (25 or 500) because then it would no longer be possible to trade at the fair market price. But to my knowledge that has never happened.

    The cap is 400 (actually it's 50 - 500 which is just absurd). In the time you mention there was no real use for dilithium so it was essentially worthless. In the MODERN game economy the price stayed at 125-135 for about a year. Post DR we see the most common prices around 155- 165.

    I really neither buy nor sell much zen. I just admire it sitting in my bank. Once in a while I'll trade a few hundred thousand for the heck of it.

    300 per dilithium is basically worthless. It will hurt the game further if we see those prices. It will only benefit the tiny % of people like yourself who buy zen to convert to dilithium.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    A large proportion of the casual players i'd say rely on the exchange to buy zen items. They probably don't invest much real cash into the game ans are likely mostly F2P players.
    If the rate goes too high they will just loose interest as they can no longer afford anything. They are unlikely to start splashing real cash at the came because being casual, they'd rather not, they used to be able to get their anything they wanted for free, or at least after a worthwhile time investment in the game.

    If it shoots up too much the only people who will really continue to buy zen are those already doing so or those new players who don't know any better.

    And remember if nobody has zen then nobody is buying keys etc which means the EC economy suffers too.
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  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,535 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    czertik123 wrote: »
    wen you lok at exnage of dill-zen you will notice that price is relative fats rising over sometime, in short time it will reach price when game was ftp game started.
    how to save a game ?
    high exchange prices discourage new players to play since they will not have cheap way to buy zen. (it makes difference that if you want to buy item x for y zebn and you have "work" for it 15 or 20 days).
    So any idea how to promote player to pump more zen to exchange to decrease price ?

    you are working on a faulty logic, you are saying if the amount of dil you need to provide to buy zen goes up this must show the game in dieing where in actual fact if anything the opposite is true.
    if there are very few players earning and exchanging dil for zen dilithium would become scarce and the amount of dil you can buy for zen would go down, if there are a lot of players trading dil for zen the value of dil would fall so the amount of zen you can buy with it is less.
    if the value of dil is going down and the amount of zen you can buy with it is less there must be either more players earning dil and exchanging it for zen or the same amount of players who just happen to have much more dil for some reason i.e. the recent dilithium weekend.

    either of these two reasons is good for the game as it shows either there are more people playing and earning and exchanging dil or there were a lot of current players who took part in the dil weekend.
    there could also be one more reason for the exchange rate fluctuation, there could be more players spending money to buy zen that would eat away all of the lower dil for zen offers and only leave the higher dil for zen offers creating a temporary rise in the amount of dil you can buy for zen and this is also good for the game as it would show players are spending more real money on the game.

    therefor a slightly high dil for zen rate is good for the game, the time you need to worry is when there is either hardly any players earning and selling dil or there are very few players spending money to buy it, you will know when that is if you look at the exchange and there are no offers to sell dil and no offers to buy it.
    that's when you will know the game is in trouble.

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  • gonaliusgonalius Member Posts: 893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    you are working on a faulty logic, you are saying if the amount of dil you need to provide to buy zen goes up this must show the game in dieing where in actual fact if anything the opposite is true.

    I do wonder if a number of people aren't buying extra Zen to spite the whining minority here on the forums who preach doom (DOOOOOOM!!!), gloom and misery, and how the game is on its last legs, and how its obviously going to be shut down any second now...
  • ceekayzeroceekayzero Member Posts: 411 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    czertik123 wrote: »
    more zen to exchange to decrease price ?

    Cryptic needs to release stovepipe hats, monocoles, and a sipping tea emote that cost an absurd amount of dilithium.

    This way, people would be compelled to create new Gorn alts, so they could have a Gorn wearing a stovepipe hat. I would name mine Space Abraham Lincgorn.

    This would also have the benefit of increasing the KDF player base.
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