test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Why Havent Old, Outdated Ships Gotten a Zen Reduction?

colonelchenchuancolonelchenchuan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Most ships are still priced as they were 1-4 years ago... when some of them were the top of the line , the It Girl and the bright new shiney. Now not so much. About the only reason to buy any of them at all is the console and many don't even have useful consoles

With T6, shouldn't a lot of the ships jn the Zen store get a big price reduction.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by colonelchenchuan on

Comments

  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Because cryptic are still hoping that people leveling toons will be willing to fork out the same price they always have for ships.

    You also have to remember this game has become somewhat of an asian market clone.

    money money money. grind grind grind, money money money. etc.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It is not just this game. Most F2P games seem to have become asian market clones. The only good thing STO has over those games is that we don't have to pay for content.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    It is not just this game. Most F2P games seem to have become asian market clones. The only good thing STO has over those games is that we don't have to pay for content.

    um.. anything that is priced in zen is considered content...
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    It is not just this game. Most F2P games seem to have become asian market clones. The only good thing STO has over those games is that we don't have to pay for content.

    Yet.

    /10char
  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    To be honest, I think all of the ships have always been overpriced. Considering the inaccuracies, the lack of features beyond pew pew or a shiny, or the fact that you don't get a little version mailed to you (this would well be worth the current cost of ships) I'm really surprised that there aren't price reductions either. Granted, we get the undersellers free during certain give away weeks, but not many people play with a ship they got for free because no one wanted to buy them. Over all, with how negative people are on Cryptic in general, I think a store wide price reduction would go a long way and make a good deal of money.

    I really can't justify spending $25-30 dollars for a virtual item. More so, when I can't even play it half the time due to the other issues the games are having. I say give them all a reduction, and bite the bullet by giving recent buyers a cool 10-20 mil(based on current price) in ec to ease paying the current ship amounts.
  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    It is not just this game. Most F2P games seem to have become asian market clones. The only good thing STO has over those games is that we don't have to pay for content.

    This is one of the things that killed TOR for me. One of, seeing how many other things there were....


    The fact that they withhold things like experience, mission rewards, and other things from you is just ridiculous. I can understand adding value to the paying members, but it should never come at the expense of the free to play crowd. It should be a bonus for paying, instead of a punishment for not.


    Unfortunately, here, it doesn't seem like there is any benefit for monthly subs, that can't be bought for cheaper in the C-store. Even the Vet rewards are now purchasable with a one time fee...


    We might not be as bad as other MMO's, but that's not to say we don't have our own issues here.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    um.. anything that is priced in zen is considered content...

    That is not content. Anything that gives the player stuff to do is content. Everything else is just fluff. We didn't have to pay a Zen to play Dust to Dust, the Omega event, or Delta Rising. Other MMOs would have you restricted from accessing the Delta Quadrant until you spent $20 to $60.
  • angrybobhangrybobh Member Posts: 420 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'd be happy with a price reduction. I also think it would be reasonable for the company to do that. Most (if not all) of the things in the zen store are way overpriced. For example the R&D pack for 300z (or 1000z for 4) is crazy. What is in the pack is not worth $3. Even with the promo starting soon, adding 10 lobi and a chance for an OP ship, it's still not worth what is in the pack. during the last giveaway I grabbed my free R&D pack and upon opening it I said to myself "it's confirmed, I will never buy one of those for the price they are asking"

    As far as ships go, They are all overpriced by a lot. Considering most t5 ship consoles can only be used on the ship it came on, t5 ships should be discounted the most.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Most ships are still priced as they were 1-4 years ago... when some of them were the top of the line , the It Girl and the bright new shiney. Now not so much. About the only reason to buy any of them at all is the console and many don't even have useful consoles

    With T6, shouldn't a lot of the ships jn the Zen store get a big price reduction.

    They don't model on repeat business. They model on short fast turnover times. They've said this directly several times.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    That is not content. Anything that gives the player stuff to do is content. Everything else is just fluff. We didn't have to pay a Zen to play Dust to Dust, the Omega event, or Delta Rising. Other MMOs would have you restricted from accessing the Delta Quadrant until you spent $20 to $60.

    any form of accessible and usable items by the user IS content.

    The only difference is that, that specific content which you talked about cannot be payed for in the free to play model otherwise it would no longer be free to play it would be buy to play.

    Furthermore you were not specific about "paying for content" which is why i brought up the zen content items.

    If you put an interactive movie on a DVD but you get that DVD for free and you have to pay a certain amount to play or use certain interactive parts of the said movie, are those interactive parts not content?

    or are you saying anything that costs money to use in game is not content?
    Because im sure the ship artists and various publishers would disagree with you.

    It is content otherwise it would not be in the game. A game needs content to be a game in the first place, they make us pay for content just not everything, we can play for free but we don't get to play all the content for free. Just like I cant play in all the command ships for free.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    any form of accessible and usable items by the user IS content.

    The only difference is that, that specific content which you talked about cannot be payed for in the free to play model otherwise it would no longer be free to play it would be buy to play.

    Furthermore you were not specific about "paying for content" which is why i brought up the zen content items.

    If you put an interactive movie on a DVD but you get that DVD for free and you have to pay a certain amount to play or use certain interactive parts of the said movie, is that not content?

    or are you saying anything that costs money to use in game that isnt story based is not content?
    Because im sure the ship artists and various publishers would disagree with you.

    It is content.

    So you are using the excuse that a dev used back in 2011 during the infamous Content Drought. Players don't play the game because of fluff. They play the game because of the various content that the game has. C-Store items are just the icing on the cake that is STO.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    So you are using the excuse that a dev used back in 2011 during the infamous Content Drought. Players don't play the game because of fluff. They play the game because of the various content that the game has. C-Store items are just the icing on the cake that is STO.

    and you're dodging facts.
    It also amuses me that you think facts are excuses, Then I guess Lies are empirical evidence then in your world?

    you cannot state that simply because you think its "fluff" that its not content.
    If another game used the design..ship layout..interior design of any of those ships without asking the devs for usage they could file a law suit, why? because that games devs would be stealing content.


    ANYTHING from non-voiced paragraphs to voiced lines...weapon consoles...beam arrays...even tribbles...name changes...the credit cap booster....IT IS ALL CONTENT. Everything on the C-store is content. Just like the Episodes and the rest of the game is content.

    And Owned by Cryptic and their respective publishers...they also used to make you pay for your "non-fluff" too you know...was that NOT content when people were subbing...

    Seriously...not sure if stupid or just plain ignorant..

    your right they don't just play the game for "fluff" but that fluff is still content and content to which you have to buy.
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Content is generally defined as stuff to do with your stuff. New pve queues and the like, daily activities.. that sort of thing. Think about another MMO for a second.. any will do really, but I'm most familiar with WoW so I'll use that as an example. What if, instead of adding new raids and heroics - they simply added a new set of gear you could pay thirty bucks for to do all the same old stuff with? That's STO - and it results in the same old stuff being worn so thin that players just don't want to play anymore.

    In the past couple of years we've added what, two voth stfs.. two undine stfs, and korfez? The last coming with a full blown 'expansion'? In most other games regular content updates would add at least a couple major party oriented PvE challenges (like raids - of which we have nothing comparable), and at least a dozen smaller PvE challenges and/or daily zones. A full expansion would add at least that much on its own.

    Of all the MMO's I've ever played.. STO is the most stagnant and unchanging. All that changes is what the OP item of the month is, and occasionally the OP ship of the year.. all to do the same old stuff.

    That all said, the vast majority of our current content isn't even run for one reason or another. For me - I've done it all a million times, and there's no useful reward for doing it anyway. I've no use for marks or additional dilithium ore. The only reason I still run anything is to compete against myself and others in parsed runs. That tiny bit of enjoyment is about all I can squeeze out of them.

    As for the original topic.. they don't drop the price on old ships because they want to charge more for the new ones. If the old ones are 2000, they can say look.. this one is better and should cost more. It's 3000. Oh, and if you want the even better version of that ship hand over 3500! The entire system is just silly, as there is no supply and demand. There is no cost of labor to produce something already produced. So long as they're covering the cost of making a transaction (which I assume costs them something) then they're making money. They could probably charge pennies for those ships and make a profit - but they don't, because they'd rather 1 person bought it at $20 than a couple hundred did at $1 for some reason. Tbh, they've forgotten the importance of micro in microtransaction and have moved on to something more akin to macrotransations.
  • mondoidmondoid Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They did add dilithuim as a reward on almost all of the replayable missions in the game, so there is some reward to playing them again. Look at the SWTOR for true example of greed.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    onerats wrote: »
    Content is generally defined as stuff to do with your stuff. New pve queues and the like, daily activities.. that sort of thing. Think about another MMO for a second.. any will do really, but I'm most familiar with WoW so I'll use that as an example. What if, instead of adding new raids and heroics - they simply added a new set of gear you could pay thirty bucks for to do all the same old stuff with? That's STO - and it results in the same old stuff being worn so thin that players just don't want to play anymore.

    In the past couple of years we've added what, two voth stfs.. two undine stfs, and korfez? The last coming with a full blown 'expansion'? In most other games regular content updates would add at least a couple major party oriented PvE challenges (like raids - of which we have nothing comparable), and at least a dozen smaller PvE challenges and/or daily zones. A full expansion would add at least that much on its own.

    Of all the MMO's I've ever played.. STO is the most stagnant and unchanging. All that changes is what the OP item of the month is, and occasionally the OP ship of the year.. all to do the same old stuff.

    That all said, the vast majority of our current content isn't even run for one reason or another. For me - I've done it all a million times, and there's no useful reward for doing it anyway. I've no use for marks or additional dilithium ore. The only reason I still run anything is to compete against myself and others in parsed runs. That tiny bit of enjoyment is about all I can squeeze out of them.

    As for the original topic.. they don't drop the price on old ships because they want to charge more for the new ones. If the old ones are 2000, they can say look.. this one is better and should cost more. It's 3000. Oh, and if you want the even better version of that ship hand over 3500! The entire system is just silly, as there is no supply and demand. There is no cost of labor to produce something already produced. So long as they're covering the cost of making a transaction (which I assume costs them something) then they're making money. They could probably charge pennies for those ships and make a profit - but they don't, because they'd rather 1 person bought it at $20 than a couple hundred did at $1 for some reason. Tbh, they've forgotten the importance of micro in microtransaction and have moved on to something more akin to macrotransations.

    exactly and those items that go towards the "stuff" you do whether it be ships, costumes, pets its all content whether someone likes it or not. the only difference is they make you pay for some of it.

    OT: Bassically yeah, I imagine that prices havent dropped due to costs and Tier 6 costs were raised because well its "higher end" and because they need to make more money to meet their quota or they simply need more money to make more and better content.

    that being said I think they are kind of milking the lower tier ships for their moneys worth some of them are not worth 1k zen imo.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    mondoid wrote: »
    They did add dilithuim as a reward on almost all of the replayable missions in the game, so there is some reward to playing them again. Look at the SWTOR for true example of greed.

    Well to be honest I cant really blame bioware for their scheme they were practically forced to go F2P but didnt want to so they did the most hardline F2P model ever done in a game in the western market. :P
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Most ships are still priced as they were 1-4 years ago... when some of them were the top of the line , the It Girl and the bright new shiney. Now not so much. About the only reason to buy any of them at all is the console and many don't even have useful consoles

    With T6, shouldn't a lot of the ships jn the Zen store get a big price reduction.


    They went the other way around: instead of lowering prices for the old, they upped the prices for the new. Not very chique, but hey, greedy is as greedy does.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Believe what you want. The fact is that lots of players don't consider C-Store items to be actual content due to the Great Content Drought of 2011 where there was no mission content for months. It wouldn't be called that if players considered C-Store ships to be content. Some players like me make the distinction between content and fluff. Although, I think most people don't care about the definition of content.
  • mondoidmondoid Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The T6 ships are the same price as the T5 ones

    T5 ship = 2500 zen
    T6 ship = 2500 zen plus upgrade token = 500 zen (I think) = 3000 zen
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    mondoid wrote: »
    The T6 ships are the same price as the T5 ones

    T5 ship = 2500 zen
    T6 ship = 2500 zen plus upgrade token = 500 zen (I think) = 3000 zen


    Ship upgrade tokens are 700 Zen (ony 500 if you by 4 of them in a bundle).
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    SWTOR isn't terrible really. At least - if you're subbed. You can play and make it to max level playing free, but once you get there (at last) you're pretty much cornered into subbing if you want to play end game raid content. That's not a terrible game philosophy in and of itself, it's rather reminiscent of playing demos of games.. back when those existed. The "lockbox" things in that game are almost totally cosmetic, the only non cosmetic items are the lightsaber crystals.. which frankly, are almost totally cosmetic too as maxed out crystals aren't hard to get. There's little to no "pay to win" or constant power creep being sold to make money in SWTOR. Most of the "account authorizations" aren't terribly different from STO or very expensive. Currency cap and relic authorization are about all you need.

    All in all, it's a far better managed game. You don't feel like you're being swindled every time you log in. That said, I do dislike the experience penalty. A bonus to subbed players would be preferable, or even the pre-expansion leveling via story missions only option given to subbed players.
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    mondoid wrote: »
    The T6 ships are the same price as the T5 ones

    T5 ship = 2500 zen
    T6 ship = 2500 zen plus upgrade token = 500 zen (I think) = 3000 zen

    wait hang on...they're fully tier 6 when you buy them and my Intel warbird didn't come with any token...

    I think that was a promotional when people brought the first tier 6 ships if i remember correctly.

    But yeah they're 3k zen because they're tier 6.. lol thats basically it. I think 0.o
  • xenificationxenification Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    onerats wrote: »
    SWTOR isn't terrible really. At least - if you're subbed. You can play and make it to max level playing free, but once you get there (at last) you're pretty much cornered into subbing if you want to play end game raid content. That's not a terrible game philosophy in and of itself, it's rather reminiscent of playing demos of games.. back when those existed. The "lockbox" things in that game are almost totally cosmetic, the only non cosmetic items are the lightsaber crystals.. which frankly, are almost totally cosmetic too as maxed out crystals aren't hard to get. There's little to no "pay to win" or constant power creep being sold to make money in SWTOR. Most of the "account authorizations" aren't terribly different from STO or very expensive. Currency cap and relic authorization are about all you need.

    All in all, it's a far better managed game. You don't feel like you're being swindled every time you log in. That said, I do dislike the experience penalty. A bonus to subbed players would be preferable, or even the pre-expansion leveling via story missions only option given to subbed players.

    I do agree, I was subbed for months I enjoyed the game far more than I did playing for free and felt like the sub was totally worth it and in retrospec you have to give bio some respect on it because if they had not gone free to play they would of shut down the game so kudos to them for keeping it running.

    eh some have argued and have been doing for years that the expertise boost you get with LSC's from those boxes do hinge part of the game because anyone can get them easily and available from level 10. I dont see it myself personally but meh Im not much of a Pvper there...everyones always so angry :|.

    Infact the only PvPing im involved in with an MMO currently is ESO.
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    mondoid wrote: »
    The T6 ships are the same price as the T5 ones

    T5 ship = 2500 zen
    T6 ship = 2500 zen plus upgrade token = 500 zen (I think) = 3000 zen

    T5 - 2000
    Fleet T5 - 2500, 2000 if purchased without original T5
    Fleet T5-U - 3200, 2700 if purchased without original T5
    T6 - 3000
    Fleet T6 - ???? (Likely 3500, though Command Battlecruisers can be purchased at 3000 and the old Odyssey cruisers debuted at 2500 (which was fleet cost))
    Fleet T6-U - ????
    T7 - ???? (4000.. should the trend continue)
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    onerats wrote: »
    SWTOR isn't terrible really. At least - if you're subbed. You can play and make it to max level playing free, but once you get there (at last) you're pretty much cornered into subbing if you want to play end game raid content. That's not a terrible game philosophy in and of itself, it's rather reminiscent of playing demos of games.. back when those existed. The "lockbox" things in that game are almost totally cosmetic, the only non cosmetic items are the lightsaber crystals.. which frankly, are almost totally cosmetic too as maxed out crystals aren't hard to get. There's little to no "pay to win" or constant power creep being sold to make money in SWTOR. Most of the "account authorizations" aren't terribly different from STO or very expensive. Currency cap and relic authorization are about all you need.

    All in all, it's a far better managed game. You don't feel like you're being swindled every time you log in. That said, I do dislike the experience penalty. A bonus to subbed players would be preferable, or even the pre-expansion leveling via story missions only option given to subbed players.

    I can't play SWTOR unless I am subscribed. SWTOR tries to force its players to subscribe while STO tries to force its players to go F2P. There are only 3 things IMO that SWTOR does better than STO, the class quests, their lockbox, and account reputation. In STO, you only need 3 alts to play all the mission content while you need 8 characters in SWTOR to do the same thing.

    That last SWTOR event was excruciatingly painful at times. Having two or three teams camping the same boss to get credit for the Heroic daily for the Gray Helix Component and getting PvP flagged because you were healing your teammate that accidentally used an AoE on a PvPer of the other faction was certainly not fun.

    I would certainly love it if they kept the pre-expansion leveling system. Still have 5 characters left to level to 55.
  • guilli88guilli88 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Cut price on all zen store stuff by half, watch revenue increase by a factor of 4.

    Theres a few economical articles on the benefit of cheaper prices for digital media. See steam sales, prices are cut, sales explode. The net result is far more profits for companies.

    sig

    http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg

    It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    This is one of the things that killed TOR for me. One of, seeing how many other things there were....


    The fact that they withhold things like experience, mission rewards, and other things from you is just ridiculous. I can understand adding value to the paying members, but it should never come at the expense of the free to play crowd. It should be a bonus for paying, instead of a punishment for not.


    Unfortunately, here, it doesn't seem like there is any benefit for monthly subs, that can't be bought for cheaper in the C-store. Even the Vet rewards are now purchasable with a one time fee...


    We might not be as bad as other MMO's, but that's not to say we don't have our own issues here.

    i find it a fair compromise, its how it should been setup on STO. f2p'ers should be limited with the basic stuff, subbers should get all of it unlocked, they are after all paying to rent for the service in much the same way a man wants to impress a woman with expensive tastes by renting out an expensive merc convertible. all a f2p'er should be able to do is view the car and imagine driving it :P.

    eventually one would wish to buy that car at full price and it is all theirs, the lifetime subscription.
    I would sooner pay for eawares services on tor then i would of sto, because eaware dont bother covering up service beyond what it is, a rent charge for upgraded status, like any other mmo.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Sign In or Register to comment.