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Grav Torp & Particle gens

meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
Speaking of torps, do particle gens affect the dmg of the Grav Torp? Someone in the DPS channels said its Small Gravimetric Rifts count as pets, and are thus not affected by player skill.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Can’t get in game at the moment but I think this torpedo gets more portend with graviton as well as particle generators. Should also be mentioned somewhere in the description. Also found this old thread:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=13710851

    For me the release of this torpedo meant the break even point to successfully flank east in NWS back in January 2014. Was the perfect companion since I needed to invest in Gravity Wells and Tractor Beam Repulsors anyway.
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  • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Particle Generators do NOT count toward Gravimetric Rift damage.

    If they did, I imagine the Particle Manipulator skill would count toward their crit rate, which it doesn't.

    If the above happened, people would cry horrible rivers about how OP Gravimetric Torpedo is.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Particle Generators do NOT count toward Gravimetric Rift damage.

    If they did, I imagine the Particle Manipulator skill would count toward their crit rate, which it doesn't.

    If the above happened, people would cry horrible rivers about how OP Gravimetric Torpedo is.

    So, what I heard was right then?! Guess there's no point in slotting stuff with extra partgens for it, then. Thx for the confirmation.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I'd question Cryptic as to whether that was a bug or not.

    While technically the mechanics for the torpedo might be that it's a "pet" - it's not actually a pet and shouldn't be treated as one. There are actually quite a few examples of "pets" that aren't pets that work in the way that it's being suggested that this does not...

    ...so yeah, I'd question them on it as to whether it was a bug if it's not being affected by both partigens and gravigens.

    edit: Well, I personally wouldn't. I can point out 9001 things that are broken and need a buff...point out 1 thing that's broken and needs a nerf...guess which one thing gets addressed. I'm tired of it.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    edit: Well, I personally wouldn't. I can point out 9001 things that are broken and need a buff...point out 1 thing that's broken and needs a nerf...guess which one thing gets addressed. I'm tired of it.

    Or something finally gets buffed (Tachyon Beam), Cryptic makes an oopsie with a decimal point, and you have a split between players as to whether it's now mega OP or a nice challenge :p
  • humblesheephumblesheep Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    Or something finally gets buffed (Tachyon Beam), Cryptic makes an oopsie with a decimal point, and you have a split between players as to whether it's now mega OP or a nice challenge :p

    Which is the exact reason why there should be both Advanced and Elite versions of the STFs.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    Since stuff in this game has a funny way of working, I'd say this. The torp should carry in it's calc for the little rifts the grav/part gens amount of the originating ship. Back when a couple of people used grav gens builds (that died with the part manip trait), I used to see NPCs get jerked around like a washing machine when they combined 20Km diameter grav wells with the torpedoes.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    That wasn't even a result of 20km grav wells, as you put it. It was just a circular motion generated by several wells in proximity, so you get a swirling effect. If you TS'd several ships at once and got several "pet" rifts going at once, they could create their own swirl effect. Putting a sci boff GW in proximity with TS of gravitorps is a good way to get it too, regardless of your skill points used to generate that GW.

    I've used the gravitorp on and off for a while now to great amusement. I say the above from experience.
  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Since stuff in this game has a funny way of working, I'd say this. The torp should carry in it's calc for the little rifts the grav/part gens amount of the originating ship. Back when a couple of people used grav gens builds (that died with the part manip trait), I used to see NPCs get jerked around like a washing machine when they combined 20Km diameter grav wells with the torpedoes.

    not only pets but entire enemy team in PvP.
    Here Gravimetric Washing machine part from one of my vids http://youtu.be/8YoaQbgztEE?t=4m21s

    So, from my past experience, damage was affected with cpt skill points, and cpt active damage boosts.

    edit: what the guy from DPS channel was maybe taliking about is the Pets Section in Combat Log Reader.
  • suzy32suzy32 Member Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Most time it easy to go to ship load torpedo to tray it will tell you all the info you seek
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    suzy32 wrote: »
    Most time it easy to go to ship load torpedo to tray it will tell you all the info you seek

    Tool tips are entered into the system at some point and are not 100% accurate automatic readouts of what you get. They are also not always taking into account every buff and boost that you may have when you log the damage in a combat log.
  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Tooltip clearly states that it is affected by gravigens and partigens.
    And like i have shown in last post damage is scaled. I always had bigger damage from rifts on toons with more prtgs when using grav torpedo. some boost was easy to see.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    sharxtreme wrote: »
    Tooltip clearly states that it is affected by gravigens and partigens.
    And like i have shown in last post damage is scaled. I always had bigger damage from rifts on toons with more prtgs when using grav torpedo. some boost was easy to see.

    And this is why I asked. :) Cuz even in this thread there's some conflicting info. Thx.
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  • pwstolemynamepwstolemyname Member Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Something a player has seems to buff gravimetric torpedo rift damage. I haven't tested to find out exactly what but I have a graviton generator and photon damage type build that's putting out half its DPS with the gravimetric torpedo rifts alone.

    As a Mega-well build its actual DPS is very much dependant upon the number of available enemies. On a bad pug ISA it can do as little as 14k DPS. On a good run as much as 26k. Whilst in sector patrols with a full team (to multiply enemy numbers) it can do as much as 70k DPS. This is with a fed sci captain.

    Its a fun build. But any way the point is that with the Gravametric torpedo rifts doing a little more then half the total damage done on most runs. Something I am running is defiantly boosting them.

    BTW Lucho. G-Gen builds are still alive and well.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I'm sure partigens boost the grav torp, I've noticed a big improvement in my DPS since boosting my partigen skill with 2 additional embassy consoles and an upgraded Solanae deflector. None of the other stats on those items would be affecting the gravimetric torp that I could see.

    Thing is, even with a massive partigen skill you're going to do max damage when you've sucked up a lot of ships. It means a TS of grav torps (if they proc) will all proc with overlapping mini-wells plus and core breaches will overlap as well.
    My opinion is, when playing with grav well...the more ships the merrier! Mega grav wells, like those up to 10-20km can hoover up entire fleets and when one goes up they all go up = massive BOOM!
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  • kamipoikamipoi Member Posts: 365 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I dont have the hard math but i can say from maybe slightly biased point of view that yes it does get some sort of buff from partg and gravgens.

    i say this because i have been slowly increasing my science build and this torp has gone from just a good torp to an omg this makes science relevant torp.

    so maybe not hard evedence but its also something hard to test so take that with a grain of salt.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    When I converted to 4 plasma/part gen consoles my highest damaging item became mini grav wells from the torpedo, followed by GW3 then plasma burn. So I would say it does modify them.
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  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    Bort said that rifts are a 'pet', and do not benefit. Sarcasm said the same thing.

    That said, Marshall@odenknight, who I trust on the matter of torpedoes, and Alexeyrykov, both said that they scale with part and grav gens, the same way GW's do. And there's this whole thread...So... booting up the game...

    Let's test stuff, cause, why not?

    (note - following testing done in an elite carraya run, MK XII Grav torp, 2xLocaters with +PhP, AMACO 2-set, Dyson 3-set, maxed skill of grav/part gens, projectile weapons, weapons training, and projectile weapons specialization). Also, I only fired TS2's. Because nebulas.

    For the test, I started with 3 MK XI R and 2 XII R part gen consoles, and then removed them all (going from 109 to 233.8 part gens).

    With the part gen consoles on, I had 60 'attacks' from the grav rifts that did a total of 74,241 base damage, for an average of 1237.35 damage/attack.

    Without the consoles, I had 47 'attacks' that did a total of 56488 base damage, for an average of 1201.872 damage/attack.

    Based on this, I'mma say there's no effect, because that's way too close for an extra 120 part gens, and all the variance.
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  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Bort said that rifts are a 'pet', and do not benefit. Sarcasm said the same thing.

    That said, Marshall@odenknight, who I trust on the matter of torpedoes, and Alexeyrykov, both said that they scale with part and grav gens, the same way GW's do. And there's this whole thread...So... booting up the game...

    Let's test stuff, cause, why not?

    (note - following testing done in an elite carraya run, MK XII Grav torp, 2xLocaters with +PhP, AMACO 2-set, Dyson 3-set, maxed skill of grav/part gens, projectile weapons, weapons training, and projectile weapons specialization). Also, I only fired TS2's. Because nebulas.

    For the test, I started with 3 MK XI R and 2 XII R part gen consoles, and then removed them all (going from 109 to 233.8 part gens).

    With the part gen consoles on, I had 60 'attacks' from the grav rifts that did a total of 74,241 base damage, for an average of 1237.35 damage/attack.

    Without the consoles, I had 47 'attacks' that did a total of 56488 base damage, for an average of 1201.872 damage/attack.

    Based on this, I'mma say there's no effect, because that's way too close for an extra 120 part gens, and all the variance.

    ^^


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  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    So, just tested it on player(thx Kira Shepard)

    Control item in the test was 1 UR Mk XIV Exciter console. 35.6 PrtG

    With it:
    Max non-crit raw 977

    without:
    Max non-crit raw 943

    269 attacks total
    127 times rift procced
    63 rifts critted
    ACC 100%
    distance 2.8km

    additional 25 Rifts counted as "pets" in combat log reader, 5 times critted
    those 25 did surprisingly slightly more damage then 127 Rifts(1/5 total normal rift damage), i suppose those are secondary rifts. and they did only straight hull kinetic damage without shield damage, as opposed to other rifts

    screenshots from CLR here:
    grav rift 1
    grav rift 2
    grav rift 3
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