Some of you are not going to like this, but hear me out.
Remove the Combat Log. Thats right. Remove it.
Over the past year I have watched the combat log parsing group in sto basically ruin the game for more people then it has enhanced. While I cant deny that combat log parsing and refining a build based on its results is fun on its own, I submit that it is only fun to a minority of people, and the rest suffer as a result of the meta that evolves from it.
Al Rivera himself said that a driving factor behind the revamp of npc hitpoint and defensive values was the 'dps' community who have parsed the game to death and determined exactly what 'meta' the game needed to plough through content effortlessly, thereby generating more dilithium and cutting into zen sales. I feel that this 'meta' takes away from the spirit of sto that we enjoyed before Delta Rising, a game where every ship could be viable in the right hands, and every piece of console fluff was fun. Now we have a game where the vast majority of ships and consoles we can buy are useless in the current meta because they get in the way of maximizing damage output, so insead of a unique ship console to add variety to the game we have replaced these consoles with manditory embassy consoles to add a plasma proc, or a 1% additional crit or 20% crit severity console that doesent add any flavor to the game except making the yellow numbers fatter..
The question is: What is more fun for the most people, on a long term basis? Is it having 300 different ways to gear your ship with only 10 of them useful above 'beginner mode' or having 300 different ways to enjoy yourself and not be a total liability to yourself and others. Here is another question: How long do you think a combat log parsing player will last in sto before they get bored of it and never play again because the chart has enabled them to over-simplify the game.
Removing the combat log wont stop the dps crowd from excelling and ploughing through content, because the really good ones dont need a quick dirtly little chart to tell them how to play, and it might just inspire them to think outside ther combat log box and consider that some build designs might yield less damage on their own, but boost everyone elses damage around them far beyond what they have lost. Removing the combat log would also improve performance of the game since all the numbers dont have to be distributed to every client on the map.
There are games that dont have combat log parsing that are totally sucessful, with rich theorycrafting communities and innovative ideas on build variations. We do not need a combat log to survive, and I am positive that it has caused more harm then good.
Do you agree or disagree? tell us why. Tell us how you think having or not having a combat log enhances your experience, enhances the experience of the community as a whole, and most importantly: how you think either way would drive zen sales.
If you remove the combat log, those that are using it will simply find another way to log their numbers. Those methods may or may not be safe, and may or may not be considered against the TOS. All-in-all, it will cause more issues than it would conceivably solve.
Does generating more dil cut into zen sales? The zen people buy with dilithium comes from other players who bought it. The zen is bought already. The dil just makes it move around between players.
lol, OP is moronic in basic premise and lacks reason and logic. Nothing but a rant at the DPS league....
Frankly, the only reason there is a small DPS league accumulating is because this game is 100% entirely based solely on nothing but DPS, DPS, DPS, get the DPS done FAST, or you lose and get no rewards, you can't rank up, you can't run end game content... blah blah blah. This game is entirely geared toward ONE thing right now. Do moar deeps! FASTER!
You're blaming the falling apple and not the gravity pulling it downward onto your head.
lol, OP is moronic in basic premise and lacks reason and logic. Nothing but a rant at the DPS league....
Frankly, the only reason there is a small DPS league accumulating is because this game is 100% entirely based solely on nothing but DPS, DPS, DPS, get the DPS done FAST, or you lose and get no rewards, you can't rank up, you can't run end game content... blah blah blah. This game is entirely geared toward ONE thing right now. Do moar deeps! FASTER!
You're blaming the falling apple and not the gravity pulling it downward onto your head.
I can see from your Pinky avatar that you've never experienced having so much knowledge that your brain generates it's own gravitational force.
No that didn't make sense and yes I stand by it. Narf!
Willingly destroying a tool in order to blind people to data they want to gather is no different than burning books.
If you don't want to use the combat log, then don't. I don't. Because I don't care about my DPS. I can complete content just fine without the burning need to know what kind of DPS I do.
But I am also aware there are players who do appreciate the functionality of the combat log, and I see no reason to encourage that tool being taken away from them because they don't play the game I prefer to play.
l
You're blaming the falling apple and not the gravity pulling it downward onto your head.
Neither gravity nor apples are to blame for this; it's the people who choose to stand under trees with ripe fruit falling. All they need do is look up to catch an apple.
tldr........bringing the server back online would however greatly improve gameplay
That's a dangerous assumption. I'm experiencing no latency/lag with the game while it's offline. It's been an amazing experience. Bringing the server back online could ruin that.
Does generating more dil cut into zen sales? The zen people buy with dilithium comes from other players who bought it. The zen is bought already. The dil just makes it move around between players.
I'm actually asking. I fail at economics.
Well, here's the thing, you can only refine 8k dil per day, which on average equals about 60 zen on the exchange (currently) per char per day, so I think (though I may have missed something) that the simple answer is 'no', it doesn't seem like it would change anything since you can already make the max daily earned zen easily with the Undine space battlezone. Suppose that you have 4 chars, averaging around 60 zen per day, you basiucally make approx 240 zen per day which takes a few hours daily, or your can just fork over £5/equivalent for 500 instant zen. So it sounds like he was talking out of his backside to be honest, though if I remember correctly, he may have said that before the Undine battlezone came out.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.
That's a dangerous assumption. I'm experiencing no latency/lag with the game while it's offline. It's been an amazing experience. Bringing the server back online could ruin that.
Virusdancer, maybe you wouldn't have a virus if you didn't hang out with those types of dancers...
Does generating more dil cut into zen sales? The zen people buy with dilithium comes from other players who bought it. The zen is bought already. The dil just makes it move around between players.
I'm actually asking. I fail at economics.
Truth. Tbh i hate grindy stuff, and don't have the time for it either, so when I need some dil i just buy some zen and trade it in. Someone else burning through content just makes things faster for me when I sell. I don't do this often though, dil usually lasts me awhile.
Lifetime Subscriber since Beta ^ Click image to listen to my favorite Trek theme song! ^
Or the OP could do something as radical as... wait for it... ignore the combat log for himself, if that floats his boat, and not suggest we all suffer along with him. Maybe that's a bit too radical, though.
If you remove the combat log, those that are using it will simply find another way to log their numbers. Those methods may or may not be safe, and may or may not be considered against the TOS. All-in-all, it will cause more issues than it would conceivably solve.
Just my 2 EC...
Please expand on this...
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
That's a dangerous assumption. I'm experiencing no latency/lag with the game while it's offline. It's been an amazing experience. Bringing the server back online could ruin that.
I think it was pretty clear: without an official combatlog, the data could perhaps be extracted in another way, presumably by intercepting data sent to your client. All of which is equally clearly against the TOS. So, I doubt anyone will be so stupid as to actually do that.
At first glance, OP, you are right. Removing the combat log seems like it would help.
But that's not the issue. The issue is that the game itself is based around DPS.
Now you COULD argue that the game is based around DPS because of the combatlog/DPSer people.
That said, I think if they removed the count down timers for queues, removed the insane HP sponges of DR, and added some AI to make things tougher THAT would solve your issues. Right now, the timers until automatic fail in queues does little other than encourage people to min/max their DPS through the roof so you can beat it. I have no idea why Cryptic thought that was a good idea because, frankly, it's the worst idea I've ever seen.
And yes, generally I am a "Cryptic white knight" but seriously, they have made the game into a DPS fest and it is their own doing.
Retune the enemies/AI/objectives and you will have the fix you desire.
Its not a rant against the dps community, I have been a part of that community since dps5000. as for the game being DPS DPS DPS - that is how it how it has evolved, particularly since DR's heaps of hitpoint values, all inspired by the dps crowd who refined their gameplay by reducing the scope of the game to a damage calculation chart.
Do you suppose that the dps crowd would fare any worse if their gameplay screen included nothing but the damage meter if the game is soley DPS. I would suspect that looking at your ship or the enemy ships would be supplimentary and one could just maximize the combat log parser to get the best results. Spreadsheet Tally Online.? fun! I bet the really good players could run Infected with their monitors turned off and still get 30k+.
To say nothing about the barren ques the are ignored because they acually dont require dps only.
Point is, if the game has been reduced to DPS DPS DPS then what is the point of having anything in the game that suggests defensive value, or lore flavor? Ships available in the zen store that have defining characteristics inspired by lore are now totally useless because if the ships flavor console doesent equal +x damage it is better off replaced by a mere embassy console.
Games a lot more populated then STO run with no combat logging, and their communities are far more imaginative in thier theorycrafting.
I think it was pretty clear: without an official combatlog, the data could perhaps be extracted in another way, presumably by intercepting data sent to your client. All of which is equally clearly against the TOS. So, I doubt anyone will be so stupid as to actually do that.
But why would this cause more issues? I certainly don't care if some min/maxer violates the TOS. It's not going to make the server more unstable because it's just going to affect their client.
Seriously, if someone gets banned for doing that, I don't care one bit.
Over the past year I have watched the combat log parsing group in sto basically ruin the game for more people then it has enhanced. While I cant deny that combat log parsing and refining a build based on its results is fun on its own, I submit that it is only fun to a minority of people, and the rest suffer as a result of the meta that evolves from it.
...snip...
There are games that dont have combat log parsing that are totally sucessful, with rich theorycrafting communities and innovative ideas on build variations. We do not need a combat log to survive, and I am positive that it has caused more harm then good.
Do you agree or disagree? tell us why. Tell us how you think having or not having a combat log enhances your experience, enhances the experience of the community as a whole, and most importantly: how you think either way would drive zen sales.
I parse. Here's what I've gotten from parsing:
A wealth of game knowledge. Did you know that overshields don't benefit from any resistance? That Attack Pattern Expertise and Pattern Recognition have a bugged interaction? That Agent Nerul only procs on shots to the primary target? That Pen leaves an injury-type debuff on the target for .5 seconds per hit that stacks, instead of doing what the tooltip thinks it does? That there's a difference between injury-type debuffs and normal debufs? That the Nukara shield's reflect, while it looks cool, does next to nothing in PvE? That other abilities, such as Call Emergency Artillery, also do next to nothing in PvE?
The list of stuff found out by the combat log function goes on and on and on.
Or, there's my own performance. Because, you know, I enjoy how I'm doing. See my signature. I tank. Parsing lets me look at shots and damage directed my own way, so I know how effective I am. It also lets me break down my incoming and outgoing healing, so I know what's making a significant difference and what isn't. It lets me see what killed people, and review power spikes after the run so I know where I was doing well in something and where I wasn't. And it also told me rather directly that I sucked when I started. Because I really did, I was doing pretty abysmal. And you know what? Instead of being upset, I decided to stop sucking, and asked around (coincidentally, the only people I've learned much from use parsers. In fact, the more knowledgeable ones parse a lot). And guess what? I got knowledge, I got help, I stopped sucking, and I could prove it.
Or then there's theorycrafting. If you don't think theorycrafting is alive with those who parse, think again. /r/stobuilds is abounding with theory and knowledge, and we use parsers. DPS-50k/75k is probably the most concentrated knowledge about the game in the game. The reason you see some cookie-cutter builds going on is because they work. I know a guy who copied Bagel's 50k+ phantom, and can't break 20k, because he's not a good pilot. But if he didn't have a high-dps build to copy, he'd probably be doing pretty badly.
And there's not a 71k torp boat and a 77k vesta flown by a sci captain because we don't think of stuff.
Now, as to something completely different you said:
Removing the combat log wont stop the dps crowd from excelling and ploughing through content, because the really good ones dont need a quick dirtly little chart to tell them how to play, and it might just inspire them to think outside ther combat log box and consider that some build designs might yield less damage on their own, but boost everyone elses damage around them far beyond what they have lost.
There are 3 basic ways of buffing other people's dps. There's resist debuff stacking. I'm sure everyone here knows that the high-dps'ers know how to and do use this, wether it's normal APO/APB cycling, IF coordination, recluses, or what. There's also control abilities, that make AOE more potent and reduce enemy defense. There are 75k+ science ships because of this. Also, it's not uncommon for recluses to carry a GW. And lastly, there's survivability. While I know of no other healers or tanks that are even over 50k, I assure you the dps-leagues are aware of the benefit that a tank can bring to a team. I've made sure of that myself.
It just so happens that they can parse, say 'the team did x dps and completed the run in y seconds with this method', and it's why time and time again you see speed records done as 5 Scimitars. Because, ultimately, if your goal is expeditious destruction of a group of NPC's that don't put out a lot of damage, surprise, the highest-dps ship x5 is the way to go.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
But why would this cause more issues? I certainly don't care if some min/maxer violates the TOS. It's not going to make the server more unstable because it's just going to affect their client.
Seriously, if someone gets banned for doing that, I don't care one bit.
Why, the min/maxer doing it, and getting banned, would care. :P So, I think it's safe to say, that, without a combat log, people will no longer have a measurable way to improve their game, other than saying "My Emergency Artillery looked real splashy this run."
I think it was pretty clear: without an official combatlog, the data could perhaps be extracted in another way, presumably by intercepting data sent to your client. All of which is equally clearly against the TOS. So, I doubt anyone will be so stupid as to actually do that.
The combat log parsers work by reading the .txt file, if there is no writing to that file client-side there could be no combat log parsing. The combat log window you see in game is just reading what the client writes to your .txt file. change that file to read only and you wont see any combat logging in game.
So no, there wouldnt be any third party apps for it.
I build my ships more for fun & meta inside set borders for the themed ship; I do not care for DPS meters 99,7% of the time but I will not see them removed for that. ppl that use them will get their fix elsewhere so that would have been a waste of time spend for the removal & maybe at some point I'd like to build some mean glass-cannon & at that point might be interested to see how it is doing.
lol, OP is moronic in basic premise and lacks reason and logic. Nothing but a rant at the DPS league....
Frankly, the only reason there is a small DPS league accumulating is because this game is 100% entirely based solely on nothing but DPS, DPS, DPS, get the DPS done FAST, or you lose and get no rewards, you can't rank up, you can't run end game content... blah blah blah. This game is entirely geared toward ONE thing right now. Do moar deeps! FASTER!
You're blaming the falling apple and not the gravity pulling it downward onto your head.
Havent you heard? New Deep-Space Exploration only allows pure Cruisers, SciShips & hybrids of those two because of proper warpcore power & living room distribution...
.
.
.
naa, kidding :P
The combat log parsers work by reading the .txt file, if there is no writing to that file client-side there could be no combat log parsing. The combat log window you see in game is just reading what the client writes to your .txt file. change that file to read only and you wont see any combat logging in game.
So no, there wouldnt be any third party apps for it.
You *do* understand combat data is actually being sent to your client, right?! (And vice versa) Or do you think your ship automagically knows how much dmg was incurred and/or dished out?! That data could be intercepted; but, like I said, doing so would be highly against the TOS. So, even if someone did it, they would never sanely be able to share such a tool.
Some of you are not going to like this, but hear me out.
Remove the Combat Log. Thats right. Remove it.
Over the past year I have watched the combat log parsing group in sto basically ruin the game for more people then it has enhanced. While I cant deny that combat log parsing and refining a build based on its results is fun on its own, I submit that it is only fun to a minority of people, and the rest suffer as a result of the meta that evolves from it.
Al Rivera himself said that a driving factor behind the revamp of npc hitpoint and defensive values was the 'dps' community who have parsed the game to death and determined exactly what 'meta' the game needed to plough through content effortlessly, thereby generating more dilithium and cutting into zen sales. I feel that this 'meta' takes away from the spirit of sto that we enjoyed before Delta Rising, a game where every ship could be viable in the right hands, and every piece of console fluff was fun. Now we have a game where the vast majority of ships and consoles we can buy are useless in the current meta because they get in the way of maximizing damage output, so insead of a unique ship console to add variety to the game we have replaced these consoles with manditory embassy consoles to add a plasma proc, or a 1% additional crit or 20% crit severity console that doesent add any flavor to the game except making the yellow numbers fatter..
The question is: What is more fun for the most people, on a long term basis? Is it having 300 different ways to gear your ship with only 10 of them useful above 'beginner mode' or having 300 different ways to enjoy yourself and not be a total liability to yourself and others. Here is another question: How long do you think a combat log parsing player will last in sto before they get bored of it and never play again because the chart has enabled them to over-simplify the game.
Removing the combat log wont stop the dps crowd from excelling and ploughing through content, because the really good ones dont need a quick dirtly little chart to tell them how to play, and it might just inspire them to think outside ther combat log box and consider that some build designs might yield less damage on their own, but boost everyone elses damage around them far beyond what they have lost. Removing the combat log would also improve performance of the game since all the numbers dont have to be distributed to every client on the map.
There are games that dont have combat log parsing that are totally sucessful, with rich theorycrafting communities and innovative ideas on build variations. We do not need a combat log to survive, and I am positive that it has caused more harm then good.
Do you agree or disagree? tell us why. Tell us how you think having or not having a combat log enhances your experience, enhances the experience of the community as a whole, and most importantly: how you think either way would drive zen sales.
First and foremost, stuff like this comes up from time to time in all mmos. In all instances, the tool is blamed for the actions of others in game.
The problem isn't the combat log, the problem is the players and the community. If cryptic would just put something in the game to see how much damage you're doing, there would be no need for the combatlogreader program or other such things. People in a game are always going to want to know what damage they're doing, and they have a right to know that. In world of ********, being a well known example of an mmo, players on there are allowed to see their damage for various reasons. In the case of WoW, there are certain fights where if you're doing too little dps you won't clear the fight. There are also other fights where certain enemies need to die at the same time, and as such they need to know what kind of damage is being thrown out and by who. They need to know this in the event someone needs to be moved, or if damage needs to be slowed. Yes they could look at a health bar but that only tells you so much.
Allowing people to see their damage also allows them to know if they need to improve their build also. It's not fair to a guy who's running 10k+ in damage to be forced to carry 4 other people who are doing less than 1k at level 60. I'm sorry but it's not my job or anyone's job to carry people. What you fail to understand is that there will always be min/max players in STO, Wow, and all other mmos, it's just the nature of the beast. There will always be those numbers players in a game. If the combat log is removed in its current form, something else will take its place. Something like the combat log also allows people a better idea of what works and what doesn't. What you also fail to understand, is there will always be a meta type of gameplay in mmos. There will always be that best shield for tanks, staff for healers, or sword for dps, in WoW. There will always be that best cruiser, best beam, best cannon, best shield, best deflector, best ground set, or otherwise in STO. You're fooling yourself if you think that simply removing the combat log will solve the issue you're describing as being a problem.
The problem with combat log is when you get the airheads who think that simply because they can crank alot of damage that it makes them hot shots. However, there will always be people like that in not just STO but all mmos. You're going to run into players in any gaming community that think they're hot stuff no matter what you do. The important thing is how you deal with them. If you really want to improve the community, then give people a reason to better themselves in game. I'm not saying hand stuff out, but give people some motivation to actually better themselves. Put some better info out there such as explaining the r&d system to new players, explaining the different uses of the different weapons, why people want to go for rep gear, and things of that nature.
The combat log simply parses data that already exists within the game so players don't have to do it manually. You're blaming the tool instead of the player using the tool. If you don't like the combat log then don't use it. I for one like knowing what damage I do so I can improve it and do better. One way or another people will always find a way to get the data, it's just a matter of what and how. The combat log is more of a help than a hindrance. the log doesn't tell me how to play by any means, but it does give me the ability to see if what i'm doing is as effective as i want it to be.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I understand that. most of what I know about the game has come from parsing as well, I will still use the parsing to refine builds, but I could envision athe game without it, and I think it would be better for everyone.
After parsing everything I did for a few weeks I realized that I was spending more time trying to eek an extra 1% more damage out of a ship then I was acually playing the game for the enjoyment of playing the game, and I was left to wonder if maybe I should have just spent my leisure time doing someone's taxes.
What Cryptic needs to do is DPS parsing also and balance the weapons and skills more. We should not have the one true weapon type (antiproton) and one true captain type (tactical) able to outdo everyone else. This game is very focused on DPS since nps mostly don't have any real special abilities anymore. As a result all captain types should be able to do equal DPS just in different ways.
I don't like this idea that the one true setup is 5 CRTDx4 AP DBB in the front, 1 cutting beam, 1 ancient antiproton and one omni antiproton in the back and then slap on tactical vulnerability locators, embassay consoles and a few other standard uni consoles in the engineering slots.
Right now you can use that build or you can have your dps crater. It looks like they are going to nerf the embassy consoles and that means that drain boats which could get about 10-15K with polaron weapons won't do that anymore and nothing will really change for the one true AP builds.
Right now if you want to do a lot of space combat you should play tactical with a 5/3 weapon setup. If you want to do a lot of ground then play an engineer with the orbital chasing beam and have an all engineer away team.
You *do* understand combat data is actually being sent to your client, right?! (And vice versa) Or do you think your ship automagically knows how much dmg was incurred and/or dished out?! That data could be intercepted; but, like I said, doing so would be highly against the TOS. So, even if someone did it, they would never sanely be able to share such a tool.
Thats fine, they can bury it in a read only hex file and we coudl still dig it up. and get banned for it, or get infected by downloading someone's malicious software for it. I see no problem here.
Comments
Just my 2 EC...
I'm actually asking. I fail at economics.
Frankly, the only reason there is a small DPS league accumulating is because this game is 100% entirely based solely on nothing but DPS, DPS, DPS, get the DPS done FAST, or you lose and get no rewards, you can't rank up, you can't run end game content... blah blah blah. This game is entirely geared toward ONE thing right now. Do moar deeps! FASTER!
You're blaming the falling apple and not the gravity pulling it downward onto your head.
I can see from your Pinky avatar that you've never experienced having so much knowledge that your brain generates it's own gravitational force.
No that didn't make sense and yes I stand by it. Narf!
Willingly destroying a tool in order to blind people to data they want to gather is no different than burning books.
If you don't want to use the combat log, then don't. I don't. Because I don't care about my DPS. I can complete content just fine without the burning need to know what kind of DPS I do.
But I am also aware there are players who do appreciate the functionality of the combat log, and I see no reason to encourage that tool being taken away from them because they don't play the game I prefer to play.
Neither gravity nor apples are to blame for this; it's the people who choose to stand under trees with ripe fruit falling. All they need do is look up to catch an apple.
That's a dangerous assumption. I'm experiencing no latency/lag with the game while it's offline. It's been an amazing experience. Bringing the server back online could ruin that.
Well, here's the thing, you can only refine 8k dil per day, which on average equals about 60 zen on the exchange (currently) per char per day, so I think (though I may have missed something) that the simple answer is 'no', it doesn't seem like it would change anything since you can already make the max daily earned zen easily with the Undine space battlezone. Suppose that you have 4 chars, averaging around 60 zen per day, you basiucally make approx 240 zen per day which takes a few hours daily, or your can just fork over £5/equivalent for 500 instant zen. So it sounds like he was talking out of his backside to be honest, though if I remember correctly, he may have said that before the Undine battlezone came out.
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.
Virusdancer, maybe you wouldn't have a virus if you didn't hang out with those types of dancers...
Truth. Tbh i hate grindy stuff, and don't have the time for it either, so when I need some dil i just buy some zen and trade it in. Someone else burning through content just makes things faster for me when I sell. I don't do this often though, dil usually lasts me awhile.
^ Click image to listen to my favorite Trek theme song! ^
Please expand on this...
LMAO!
True that.
server comes up and the lag and DCs begin!
I think it was pretty clear: without an official combatlog, the data could perhaps be extracted in another way, presumably by intercepting data sent to your client. All of which is equally clearly against the TOS. So, I doubt anyone will be so stupid as to actually do that.
But that's not the issue. The issue is that the game itself is based around DPS.
Now you COULD argue that the game is based around DPS because of the combatlog/DPSer people.
That said, I think if they removed the count down timers for queues, removed the insane HP sponges of DR, and added some AI to make things tougher THAT would solve your issues. Right now, the timers until automatic fail in queues does little other than encourage people to min/max their DPS through the roof so you can beat it. I have no idea why Cryptic thought that was a good idea because, frankly, it's the worst idea I've ever seen.
And yes, generally I am a "Cryptic white knight" but seriously, they have made the game into a DPS fest and it is their own doing.
Retune the enemies/AI/objectives and you will have the fix you desire.
Do you suppose that the dps crowd would fare any worse if their gameplay screen included nothing but the damage meter if the game is soley DPS. I would suspect that looking at your ship or the enemy ships would be supplimentary and one could just maximize the combat log parser to get the best results. Spreadsheet Tally Online.? fun! I bet the really good players could run Infected with their monitors turned off and still get 30k+.
To say nothing about the barren ques the are ignored because they acually dont require dps only.
Point is, if the game has been reduced to DPS DPS DPS then what is the point of having anything in the game that suggests defensive value, or lore flavor? Ships available in the zen store that have defining characteristics inspired by lore are now totally useless because if the ships flavor console doesent equal +x damage it is better off replaced by a mere embassy console.
Games a lot more populated then STO run with no combat logging, and their communities are far more imaginative in thier theorycrafting.
But why would this cause more issues? I certainly don't care if some min/maxer violates the TOS. It's not going to make the server more unstable because it's just going to affect their client.
Seriously, if someone gets banned for doing that, I don't care one bit.
I parse. Here's what I've gotten from parsing:
A wealth of game knowledge. Did you know that overshields don't benefit from any resistance? That Attack Pattern Expertise and Pattern Recognition have a bugged interaction? That Agent Nerul only procs on shots to the primary target? That Pen leaves an injury-type debuff on the target for .5 seconds per hit that stacks, instead of doing what the tooltip thinks it does? That there's a difference between injury-type debuffs and normal debufs? That the Nukara shield's reflect, while it looks cool, does next to nothing in PvE? That other abilities, such as Call Emergency Artillery, also do next to nothing in PvE?
The list of stuff found out by the combat log function goes on and on and on.
Or, there's my own performance. Because, you know, I enjoy how I'm doing. See my signature. I tank. Parsing lets me look at shots and damage directed my own way, so I know how effective I am. It also lets me break down my incoming and outgoing healing, so I know what's making a significant difference and what isn't. It lets me see what killed people, and review power spikes after the run so I know where I was doing well in something and where I wasn't. And it also told me rather directly that I sucked when I started. Because I really did, I was doing pretty abysmal. And you know what? Instead of being upset, I decided to stop sucking, and asked around (coincidentally, the only people I've learned much from use parsers. In fact, the more knowledgeable ones parse a lot). And guess what? I got knowledge, I got help, I stopped sucking, and I could prove it.
Or then there's theorycrafting. If you don't think theorycrafting is alive with those who parse, think again. /r/stobuilds is abounding with theory and knowledge, and we use parsers. DPS-50k/75k is probably the most concentrated knowledge about the game in the game. The reason you see some cookie-cutter builds going on is because they work. I know a guy who copied Bagel's 50k+ phantom, and can't break 20k, because he's not a good pilot. But if he didn't have a high-dps build to copy, he'd probably be doing pretty badly.
And there's not a 71k torp boat and a 77k vesta flown by a sci captain because we don't think of stuff.
Now, as to something completely different you said:
There are 3 basic ways of buffing other people's dps. There's resist debuff stacking. I'm sure everyone here knows that the high-dps'ers know how to and do use this, wether it's normal APO/APB cycling, IF coordination, recluses, or what. There's also control abilities, that make AOE more potent and reduce enemy defense. There are 75k+ science ships because of this. Also, it's not uncommon for recluses to carry a GW. And lastly, there's survivability. While I know of no other healers or tanks that are even over 50k, I assure you the dps-leagues are aware of the benefit that a tank can bring to a team. I've made sure of that myself.
It just so happens that they can parse, say 'the team did x dps and completed the run in y seconds with this method', and it's why time and time again you see speed records done as 5 Scimitars. Because, ultimately, if your goal is expeditious destruction of a group of NPC's that don't put out a lot of damage, surprise, the highest-dps ship x5 is the way to go.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Why, the min/maxer doing it, and getting banned, would care. :P So, I think it's safe to say, that, without a combat log, people will no longer have a measurable way to improve their game, other than saying "My Emergency Artillery looked real splashy this run."
The combat log parsers work by reading the .txt file, if there is no writing to that file client-side there could be no combat log parsing. The combat log window you see in game is just reading what the client writes to your .txt file. change that file to read only and you wont see any combat logging in game.
So no, there wouldnt be any third party apps for it.
Havent you heard? New Deep-Space Exploration only allows pure Cruisers, SciShips & hybrids of those two because of proper warpcore power & living room distribution...
.
.
.
naa, kidding :P
You *do* understand combat data is actually being sent to your client, right?! (And vice versa) Or do you think your ship automagically knows how much dmg was incurred and/or dished out?! That data could be intercepted; but, like I said, doing so would be highly against the TOS. So, even if someone did it, they would never sanely be able to share such a tool.
First and foremost, stuff like this comes up from time to time in all mmos. In all instances, the tool is blamed for the actions of others in game.
The problem isn't the combat log, the problem is the players and the community. If cryptic would just put something in the game to see how much damage you're doing, there would be no need for the combatlogreader program or other such things. People in a game are always going to want to know what damage they're doing, and they have a right to know that. In world of ********, being a well known example of an mmo, players on there are allowed to see their damage for various reasons. In the case of WoW, there are certain fights where if you're doing too little dps you won't clear the fight. There are also other fights where certain enemies need to die at the same time, and as such they need to know what kind of damage is being thrown out and by who. They need to know this in the event someone needs to be moved, or if damage needs to be slowed. Yes they could look at a health bar but that only tells you so much.
Allowing people to see their damage also allows them to know if they need to improve their build also. It's not fair to a guy who's running 10k+ in damage to be forced to carry 4 other people who are doing less than 1k at level 60. I'm sorry but it's not my job or anyone's job to carry people. What you fail to understand is that there will always be min/max players in STO, Wow, and all other mmos, it's just the nature of the beast. There will always be those numbers players in a game. If the combat log is removed in its current form, something else will take its place. Something like the combat log also allows people a better idea of what works and what doesn't. What you also fail to understand, is there will always be a meta type of gameplay in mmos. There will always be that best shield for tanks, staff for healers, or sword for dps, in WoW. There will always be that best cruiser, best beam, best cannon, best shield, best deflector, best ground set, or otherwise in STO. You're fooling yourself if you think that simply removing the combat log will solve the issue you're describing as being a problem.
The problem with combat log is when you get the airheads who think that simply because they can crank alot of damage that it makes them hot shots. However, there will always be people like that in not just STO but all mmos. You're going to run into players in any gaming community that think they're hot stuff no matter what you do. The important thing is how you deal with them. If you really want to improve the community, then give people a reason to better themselves in game. I'm not saying hand stuff out, but give people some motivation to actually better themselves. Put some better info out there such as explaining the r&d system to new players, explaining the different uses of the different weapons, why people want to go for rep gear, and things of that nature.
The combat log simply parses data that already exists within the game so players don't have to do it manually. You're blaming the tool instead of the player using the tool. If you don't like the combat log then don't use it. I for one like knowing what damage I do so I can improve it and do better. One way or another people will always find a way to get the data, it's just a matter of what and how. The combat log is more of a help than a hindrance. the log doesn't tell me how to play by any means, but it does give me the ability to see if what i'm doing is as effective as i want it to be.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I understand that. most of what I know about the game has come from parsing as well, I will still use the parsing to refine builds, but I could envision athe game without it, and I think it would be better for everyone.
After parsing everything I did for a few weeks I realized that I was spending more time trying to eek an extra 1% more damage out of a ship then I was acually playing the game for the enjoyment of playing the game, and I was left to wonder if maybe I should have just spent my leisure time doing someone's taxes.
---
I don't like this idea that the one true setup is 5 CRTDx4 AP DBB in the front, 1 cutting beam, 1 ancient antiproton and one omni antiproton in the back and then slap on tactical vulnerability locators, embassay consoles and a few other standard uni consoles in the engineering slots.
Right now you can use that build or you can have your dps crater. It looks like they are going to nerf the embassy consoles and that means that drain boats which could get about 10-15K with polaron weapons won't do that anymore and nothing will really change for the one true AP builds.
Right now if you want to do a lot of space combat you should play tactical with a 5/3 weapon setup. If you want to do a lot of ground then play an engineer with the orbital chasing beam and have an all engineer away team.
Thats fine, they can bury it in a read only hex file and we coudl still dig it up. and get banned for it, or get infected by downloading someone's malicious software for it. I see no problem here.