Came back to the game because of the anniversary event*, and was at first excited about the new ships, but then became sorely disappointed. Two main problems with these ships. The first is that command abilities simply do not stack up to the intel abilities. I hear that Cryptic is looking into this.
For me, the biggest disappointment is that these ships, Fed and Klingon ones, aren't actually battlecruisers. They lack the actual battlecruiser set of cruiser commands. Battlecruisers are supposed to get:
- Strategic Maneuvering
- Shield Frequency Modulation
- Weapon System Efficiency
Instead these ships get the Flight-Deck Cruiser Commands:
- Shield Frequency Modulation
- Attract Fire
Which is a much, much, worse selection. Now, I understand that these ships have a hangar. But they're being billed as Command Battlecruisers, and not "Command Flight-Deck Cruisers". Of course, game balance is important. Would the battlecruiser commands on these ships be unbalanced? From what I'm reading they underperform compared to many T6, and even some T5U, ships.
Then, there's the comparison to the Romulan Command Warbirds. Warbirds don't get cruiser commands. Instead they get singularity powers (situational), and battlecloak, which, specially when coupled with the Reman (captain or BOFF) trait is extremely powerful. This makes the Romulan command ships way better than their KDF and Fed counterparts. Giving these latter two their proper battlecruiser commands would help bridge that power gap.
* Kudos to Cryptic on the event. They absolutely know how to bring back their old players. Yeah, I'll admit I was one of those hoards of people coming back that made the game unplayable the first few days of the event. Will we stay though? Will I stay though? I don't know...
Comments
And just to be clear: the command flight deck battle crusier thingies aren't terrible, they're just medicore. A good player can do some good stuff with it. Heck, some guy made a torp boat out of a rom variant and hit 25k so there's proof of that.
They're just not the faceroll dps machines we've been getting lately and honestly that's a good thing.
I never said I bought them, did I? And in fact, I haven't (yet?), for the very reasons I outlined above. But congrats to you sir, on both your reading comprehension skills, and your ability to add meaningfully to a discussion.
Don't make the mistake of judging or setting expectations from a ship in STO based on the name or classification it bears, always take a good look and analyze the stats that are asociated with that ship, because that's what it boils down to. In this particular case, the hybrid is between a battlecruiser and a flight-deck cruiser - the perk from the BC part are the DHCs, the tradeoff are the comm arrays availible; the perk from the FDC part is the hangar bay, the tradeoff are, once again, the comm arrays availible. (although I personally don't see as a tradeoff in terms of the FDC part)
Also, I personally think the Federation pack are the best command cruisers of the pack. Those are rock solid, to die in one you'd probably have to play drunk or stoned. The Romulan ones are the prettiest though. That all boils to personal playstyle and preferences, though you're partially right - however the advantages the Romulan pack could have in certain situations is not because of the ships themselves, but more because the Romulan/Reman passives that work like that pretty much in any ship with the ability to cloak.
I would't say these are dissapointing. Personally, I think it's probably the best batch of ships Cryptic released for STO and has been a long time comming. This boils down to my personal preferences and preferred playstyle, though.
I actually bought the rom package (I had a gift of much zen, and I used it--- happy val-day to me).
I agree with most everything else you said (its not as potent as intel for sure). Some thoughts..
- command torp buffs work well with pets that have a torp. But, they only seat fighters and its pathetic how much fighters die. You launch them, they fire 1 volley, and they die. Honestly, the value of one hangar bay that does not slot frigates is about zero. Its not exactly zero, but its close.
- its rom, so I never get "cruiser" commands on my "cruiser". /shrug this makes singularity and cloak, which are on all warbirds, a substitute for something OTHER than commands. That means the rom ships are effectively MISSING some replacement for "cruiser" commands. They are simply missing a feature.
- the ships are not dps ships. Roms already have 2 top dog dps ships: faeht and scim. These are like the fed galaxy: not dps themed. That said, I am sitting an a 4 tac console warbird with 8 weapons and SRO officers. I may not be hitting like a scimitar, but I am not weak. I have already roughed out a pretty solid torp boat build using the new command ideas, and it is already showing a lot of promise. I have also made a hybrid science/guns build that was decent, though its more guns than exotic it still packs a punch. But no, they are not going to be the top damage ships in the game, ever. Wouldn't it be nice if damage were not everything?
If people actually stopped and thought for a second about Cryptic's intention with this ship, they would realize they basically built torp boats when you combine the command abilities/specialization/console.
It's like the Voth Palisade, when you run it as a drain boat, it's extremely effective at that.
Most people in this game have a one track mind and want to build FAW DPS beam boats out of everything they see.
WTF dude. The Weapon command is built in with inspiration mechanic. The set 2 from Samsar is nearly like a fleet RCS.
You surely don't know how to fly battlecruiser bro.
That's what I meant - SRO. I mentioned the cloak only because it emphasizes the passive advantages even more in case of Romulan or Reman species, but in essence I was talking about the SRO.
Congrats, the Romulan Command Warbirds are gorgeous.
Fair enough, but then again it's better to have one than not. This is a unique case where I not only accept it, but endorse it for some reason - generally I'm adamantly against carriers, hangars, pets. In this particular case, having one just seems right somehow.
I have to say, not that I'm overally bothered by it, but I also fail to see their reasoning on this one.
Bingo!!! Exaclty, these are not the DPS monsters that we've been fed lately. And quite honestly, they don't need to be, they pack more than enough oomph for what's necessary. You probably wont get 120k DPS on one, but then again - what would be the point of getting 120k DPS in one of these?
As you said - you have a battlecloaking battlecruiser, with 8 weapon slots, a hangar bay, 4 tactical consoles, at least Lt.Cmdr tac and you could pack it with SRO officers. (in the Romulan case) Much more than enough to breeze through everything the game throws at you.
I'm getting a pack of these tomorrow. I am, however, completely torn apart 3-way as to which pack to pick up.
The Fed one is my dream cruiser, a rock solid command ship that I'm 100% sure it will never get blown apart under my command. The style of ship I was waiting for, plus I apreciate the innovative yet retro-looking design, especially the circular saucers.
The KDF one, because I'm a KDF main and want to get these, plus I started getting fond of the Ty'Gokor in some weird way.
The Romulan one has the Baratan, which is the most gorgeous ship in the game and gets me excited by just thinking of flying one.
Any suggestions? lol :P
As I mentioned above, I don't actually have one. But tell me more. I'd be more than happy to be "sold" on these. I was under the impression the inspiration took time to build up, to then get a short-time buff. As opposed to Cruiser weapon efficiency command that is "always on".
Am I wrong here?
Well said, and agreed on all points.
I agree with the OP that I wish it had the Battlecruiser set of Commands, but I knew about it before getting the ship and it wasn't a deal breaker for me.
As you said, always.. always.. ALWAYS study the ship stats.. ignore the name. In this game they just randomly use Ship Designations with no real pattern. They love to throw around terms like 'Dreadnaught,' or 'Battle Cruiser' but they're all different type of ships.
Personally, I'm flying a Tactical Command Cruiser. I looked into the Boff layout, consoles, traits, etc before buying and I got exactly what I expected. I got a ship with a look I love that hits very hard and is almost impossible to destroy. These ships might not be for everyone, but for me the thing is fantastic. I think it's the best Cruiser Pack that Feds have ever received bar none. I only got the Fed pack, so I can't comment on the Romulan or KDF variants.
I don't have a Klington Character, and my Romulan already has a Scimitar so she's doing just fine. :cool:
As far as I know, the Inspiration offensive damage buff ability is better than the command passive. With high aux and AtD cycling they can be extremely mobile battle cruisers, they have a hangar bay, ltcmdr tac, a set 2 bonus that nullifies the need of strategic maneuvering. Additionally, they get to have two other abilities that are team wide which give massive recharge speed to abilities and a very good healing, still team wide.
In the end, they have plenty of goodies to make up for eventual lacks (I can't see any IMO).
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be better with it (...more is better after all), but there's nothing too bad. As far as it goes for me, I'm buying the Presidio. It doesn't dish out as much damage as an Avenger if we consider a straightforward build, but it can enhance both itself and other team mates as a "group" damage buff. To me, it's better this way. Honestly, I'm more used to shield freq. modulation.
As far as it goes with the other engi and sci variants. The engi to me is bare useless, to say the least. The sci one is a good healer, but ends there. I have already the Science Odyssey for the job which has Sensor Analysis on top of it.
Both have baaaad traits, and baaad consoles.
The tac one for me is the killer battle cruiser I always wanted for T6. Not filled with I win buttons like SS3, tanky, offensive, good looking, with a trait that just rules. So for me the pack is busted.
(plus, I hate the Concorde and Geneva aesthetics: one is the Avenger's ugly brother, one has... overgrown nacelles). Presidio looks agile, streamlined (but not too much), reminds of the Prometheus.
The Console set is actually decent this time around; they provide a reason to omit a console to encourage you to use all 4, and it helps that one of them is especially potent on repairing yourself (Kobali Console).
2-pc = +15 Kinetic Res, +15 All Energy Res, + 30% Turn Rate. In effect, a ResAll RCS, so you don't have to stick one on.
3-pc = Additional Shielding bonus (I forget if it's regen or HP buff) and 33% faster Inspiration gain for yourself. Especially worthwhile if you really, really want to use the command ship regularly and often solo.
4-pc = Stronger Deployed Platforms. Double Turret Platform, extended range Tachyon Platform, and Shield Platform now heals allies' shields in addition to your own (kind of like the Bio-Molecular Shielding Active Trait from T5 Undine).
Inspiration abilities: Lasts about 12~15 or so seconds for the Attack buff and Defense buff, whereas the Boff CD skill is near-instant (reduces everything down to 1 second or less; depending on UI lag). Locked out of using them for 2 minutes after and unable to build Inspiration for about 10~15 seconds (In theory; 3-5 Command ships in a team and near each other using Command skills will quickly top back up that gauge, even if you yourself wasn't relying on the 3-pc set to boost your own bar back up).
Inspiration is built off using Boff abilities; the Command abilities give more per use. Current reports from other players state that active use of them without the 3-pc set and sometimes on your own, usually sees them able to pop an Inspiration power before the big boss or two in queues (which are you know, are usually pretty fast, and sometimes, require splitting up to tackle).
Additionally, some Command powers are being buffed. See this post for some of the buffs. On an aside, Reroute Power from Life Support definitely fits with its debuff penalty. Don't see why others are whining over it.
on inspiriation:
I can use the debuff once, maybe twice, in a solo argula run. It takes forever to build. I can' tell what exactly builds it, have not had time to study it. Its overwhelmingly powerful when you can use it though, its a bosskiller for the damage one (30% extra dps team wide!!!).
on the consoles:
I have not studied them in depth. I am only using one right now, because I am crowded in my torp boat concept (flow caps X 3, torp console X 4, ... not much room left) but I am using the torp damage bonus one (also deploys a bunch of mines). The rest of them seem to be nice but heavily defense oriented. They are unnecessary for PVE in a ship that is already built to tank.
On the ship traits:
reduced cooldown of sci abilities when tac ability used? YES! This was the selling point for me. I was on the fence about getting the ships and that ability tipped me on over into spending. The other two traits are mehish. Improved brace for impact is pretty potent if you have uber leet timing skills but it lasts only an instant so if trying to soak up an incoming attack like a heavy torp, you gotta be spot on the timing.
Every Boff Tac skill use reduces Sci skills by 10% and Player skills by 5% every 5 seconds. So staggering your Tac skill use (such as popping TS/HY with 30 seconds to use it, ahead of BFaW/CSV for example) will see a steadily reduced Sci and player skill CD.
Of course it would be amazing to have them but i cansurvive without. And i don´t think they wer supposed to be DBB boats or cannon biulds so no need for a very high turnrate. You can do well with Beam arrays and the hangar adds a 9th weapon slot basically.
But yes, they should give the Command Cruisers the full Battlecruiser Pack, traits and commands
another nice feature would be if they gave a enhanced version of all the commands which basically just extended the area of effect, cooler even would be if the platform's spread whatever command you were running in the area around themselves or deployed their own.
there are lots of things they could have done really to make them more interesting the ability's are actually kinda cool. the main thing keeping me from buying at the moment tho is the boff layout's. giving them a lt. com universal would have pretty much solved this for me or better yet 2 lt. com uni's. Having a intel. slot wouldn't have been bad either since you would typically expect a command ship to have a intelligence advisor.
the other issue is the kind of lackluster fed carrier pet selection, I keep hoping that they will add a Intel type fighter craft eventually.
Take these ships, the passive abilities from spending points in the space portion of the Command Tree, the mastery traits from the Mat'ha, Sheshar, and 2 part KHG set, and yes Torpedo boats indeed.
Running Bimolecular Disruptors, and the Bio Photon, and playing arround with other Torps as forward weapons.
I'm actually getting a turn rate of 40 out oif mine, so still running 2 DHC, and Turrets.
She is a fun ship, I will only be using the Klingon versions, my Rom has different play styles, and I barely play my Fed, but imagine the will produce a few stand alone Command Cruisers, and if not my T5U Ambassador is doing just fine.
The Command Battlecruiser's biggest weakness is - she's an enhancer ship in a game that just wants pure dps. While she extremely solid, extremely powerful on her own - she would be amazing in a properly set up group in her proper role. A high dps tank and 'buff' ship.
As to her hanger bay - I find I keep my fighters on intercept just for 'rp reasons'. My ship's fighters should be dedicated to protecting the command ship from small targets, not out there bombing the target.
Yes, yes. I understand the trait is "OP". I guess that bugs me as well. It used to be that new ships had to have something new, distinct, and interesting, to draw people away from what they're flying.
I look at the command "battlecruisers", and I ask myself, is there anything really there to drag me away from my Flavenger?
Then I think, oh, right, there doesn't have to be. Cryptic has given up on that, and now ships are just really shiny, and expensive, wrappers for OP traits.