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To The Moon

zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
Came across this vid today...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdkMHkF7BaA

...and it reminded me of my disappointment on day one in game (for me) when I aimed my ship at the moon and could not get there.

It's not even a model on a string, but a picture on a star-covered wall.

As for the moon itself...

I recall one of the ST novels that places an extension of The Academy there. Literally, a massive site for all kinds of holodeck training. A place to practice ground and space combat. I don't know about other players, but I think I could use something like that in STO.

Oh, is this an old query? I came over from CO and we have this sort of thing there. Anyway, it might be to complicated of a thing to create here. I mean, a hero is himself the weapon on CO, and here, a Captain never seems to work alone (I'm referring to the Boffs not the MMO aspect). So with soooooooo many weapon types and varieties of enemies and so on and so forth it might be too complicated a task (for the return, I mean).

But back to the moon...

While it'd be cool to go to the moon and beam down to the Sea of Tranquility to stand near Armstrong's foot prints, it'd be a waste of the Devs time, I'm sure. Exciting for five minutes, tops, for standing near a bit of human achievement.

Unless...

There's a Mugatu in a hidden cave nearby guarding an amazing bit of technology.

[ You have defeated the Mugatu in the hidden cave. ]

New Accolade - {{ Mugatu U }}

:eek: :)
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Comments

  • shadoreshadore Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I think there was something in Mass Effect like that. That said I can see a simplified version of what you suggest in premade scenerios one can pick from. Like mini episodes. Maybe some random variables, like in dust to dust where at the beginning of the ground part it can be the gorn engineer or the downed kobali.

    There's actually another 2 instances of holodeck training in star trek that I can think of. One is Worf's combat training on TNG. Remember that skull headed guy? Another is that training program the jem hadar kid in DS9 used in that episode where a jem hadar kid was I think temporally adopted by Odo? Haven't seen that episode since it was new.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    That video is clearly a fake. The far side of the moon has the Galactic Empire Earth Observation Facility which can be seen from orbit.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,559 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    In ME1, there's a side mission to a lunar training facility where a rogue VI has started killing people, mostly in self-defense; if you watch the logs on your way into the Illusive Man's base in ME3, you'll find out that Cerberus repurposed that VI into EDI.

    In Champions Online, you can get a lunar hideout. You can even walk out onto the surface of the Moon. If you have the ability to fly, you can head toward Earth - and discover that it is a painted backdrop. (Not even a popup that lets you go to Mill City, like the one you get if you fly off the balcony of the Penthouse. A little disappointing, I thought.)

    It would be kind of cool to have a social zone around Tranquility Base, but I can also understand if Earth keeps that off limits - you don't want people walking all over those historic footprints...
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  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    In ME1, there's a side mission to a lunar training facility where a rogue VI has started killing people, mostly in self-defense; if you watch the logs on your way into the Illusive Man's base in ME3, you'll find out that Cerberus repurposed that VI into EDI.

    In Champions Online, you can get a lunar hideout. You can even walk out onto the surface of the Moon. If you have the ability to fly, you can head toward Earth - and discover that it is a painted backdrop. (Not even a popup that lets you go to Mill City, like the one you get if you fly off the balcony of the Penthouse. A little disappointing, I thought.)

    It would be kind of cool to have a social zone around Tranquility Base, but I can also understand if Earth keeps that off limits - you don't want people walking all over those historic footprints...

    Yup. I love my Lunar Hideout, but I didn't get one until the Devs fixed the glitch that let you get trapped behind the "bubble" and fly to the Earth, and even the Sun if I under stood correctly.

    IronMarble made this vid.

    I may not be able to go to the moon, but I have enjoyed surfing through the Earth's atmosphere. ( I don't have a cap for that ). Sometimes I just like to see everything this game has in it. There are things that seem silly to me (not as many as you might think), but then there are all the beautiful Nebulas. I love the Azure Nebula. It's so neat the way you are flying along and suddenly you inside a blue cloud. Very cool. You've just got to appreciate those details. :)
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited February 2015

    So this is where the idea for flying saucers came from. Just some guy on a hover disc.
  • cecil08cecil08 Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Fun fact: The moon used to be an actual satellite around Earth when the game first launched. Not sure why they changed it though it may be because the scaling of planets and moons in their engine is... not very good. So the moon was really small.
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    In ME1, there's a side mission to a lunar training facility where a rogue VI has started killing people, mostly in self-defense; if you watch the logs on your way into the Illusive Man's base in ME3, you'll find out that Cerberus repurposed that VI into EDI.

    In Champions Online, you can get a lunar hideout. You can even walk out onto the surface of the Moon. If you have the ability to fly, you can head toward Earth - and discover that it is a painted backdrop. (Not even a popup that lets you go to Mill City, like the one you get if you fly off the balcony of the Penthouse. A little disappointing, I thought.)

    It would be kind of cool to have a social zone around Tranquility Base, but I can also understand if Earth keeps that off limits - you don't want people walking all over those historic footprints...

    That was my favorite mission in me1, it was nice that they kept it towards end game, as that's the first time you go to sol system.. and I just remember being impressed seeing the system laid out. And the sight of earth when on the moons surface felt surreal.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    If you've never tried it.. load up Kerbal Space Program from Steam. It'll take a bit of experimentation (especially if you don't cheat.. though if you do it'll still take a bit of work) but that game is rather realistic in how space travel actually works. It'll let you fly to the moon (well, in their solar system it's called the Mun) and land there, walk around.. take surface samples.. and hopefully fly back and go home safely. Heck, you can explore the entire Kerbal solar system.. provided you can design and pilot ships effectively.
  • kamenriderzero1kamenriderzero1 Member Posts: 906 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    the moon was moved out of the map (as was Earth) because people were complaining about the lack of scale.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    onerats wrote: »
    If you've never tried it.. load up Kerbal Space Program from Steam. It'll take a bit of experimentation (especially if you don't cheat.. though if you do it'll still take a bit of work) but that game is rather realistic in how space travel actually works. It'll let you fly to the moon (well, in their solar system it's called the Mun) and land there, walk around.. take surface samples.. and hopefully fly back and go home safely. Heck, you can explore the entire Kerbal solar system.. provided you can design and pilot ships effectively.

    Or use mods to do it for you.
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Yeah, the autopilot mod is practically required if you want to stand a chance of getting anywhere. It's not perfect, but helps a LOT. It's also a bit more realistic, as you'd have to be crazy to try flying to another planet without some sort of navigation computer. Going without is possible as the game as rudimentary systems to help navigate build into it, but you waste a lot more fuel.
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2015
    Sorry, my fault. I moved the moon out to the skyfile when we rebuilt the Sol System map with ESD. I hated that the moon was so close as to be causing ultra tidal waves on Earth, and potentially eclipsing large chunks of the planet every day. I wanted the moon to look more like the quite large distance it actually is from Earth.


    You can also blame me for the Champs Moon Base stuff. . .
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  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    On a side note, what is that wormhole-looking anomaly in Sol?

    I can't seem to figure it out....

    anti-time?
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Sorry, my fault. I moved the moon out to the skyfile when we rebuilt the Sol System map with ESD. I hated that the moon was so close as to be causing ultra tidal waves on Earth, and potentially eclipsing large chunks of the planet every day. I wanted the moon to look more like the quite large distance it actually is from Earth.


    You can also blame me for the Champs Moon Base stuff. . .

    LOL TF. You sound like Q....
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2015
    prierin wrote: »
    On a side note, what is that wormhole-looking anomaly in Sol?

    I can't seem to figure it out....

    anti-time?


    That's the entrance to the Captain's Table. . .
    (and is also on my spit-list.)
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  • kazabokkazabok Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    prierin wrote: »
    On a side note, what is that wormhole-looking anomaly in Sol?

    I can't seem to figure it out....

    anti-time?



    LOL TF. You sound like Q....


    It's the Captain's Table portal, for LTS/Lifers.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Sorry, my fault. I moved the moon out to the skyfile when we rebuilt the Sol System map with ESD. I hated that the moon was so close as to be causing ultra tidal waves on Earth, and potentially eclipsing large chunks of the planet every day. I wanted the moon to look more like the quite large distance it actually is from Earth.

    I miss when Earth was in the skyfile too. That iteration was so pretty.
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    That's the entrance to the Captain's Table. . .
    (and is also on my spit-list.)


    Well POO!


    I don't mind not having access to something... but why make the entrance to it flashy and appealing?!
    (I see what you did there... and I approve!.)
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  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Sorry, my fault. I moved the moon out to the skyfile when we rebuilt the Sol System map with ESD. I hated that the moon was so close as to be causing ultra tidal waves on Earth, and potentially eclipsing large chunks of the planet every day. I wanted the moon to look more like the quite large distance it actually is from Earth.


    You can also blame me for the Champs Moon Base stuff. . .

    It looks good considering the size differences between objects. Thats not an easy task to manage.
    I'd imagine if you guys wanted more realism and sense of space, the map size would have to be increased by about what ? At least 100x ?
    Is that even a possibility or too much for a game engine to handle ?
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    If the max system map size is the same as we get in the Foundry, then yeah, they're very limited on how far apart bodies can be placed. Even the smallest planets available to us are too big to do good forced perspective to make them seem distant (and of course forced perspective falls apart as soon as someone gets curious and putts on over to them).

    The skyfile planets/moon are the only ones that seem reasonably believable. Everything else is just scaled like small, strangely spherical asteroids.
  • khamseenairkhamseenair Member Posts: 2,644 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    prierin wrote: »
    Well POO!


    I don't mind not having access to something... but why make the entrance to it flashy and appealing?!
    (I see what you did there... and I approve!.)

    Because where it leads to is a bit dull, so there has to be something nice about it. :P
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2015
    It looks good considering the size differences between objects. Thats not an easy task to manage.
    I'd imagine if you guys wanted more realism and sense of space, the map size would have to be increased by about what ? At least 100x ?
    Is that even a possibility or too much for a game engine to handle ?

    *FAIR WARNING* - The below is going to pull the curtain back on the wizard a bit. If you prefer to preserve your sense of immersion, do not read the rest of this post.

    About the biggest we can reasonably make the playable space of a map, is 30,000'x30,000', centered around 0,0,0. So 15,000 in any given direction. Past that, stuff starts going pear-shaped.


    At the moment, the model being used for Earth has a radius of 2800'. Keep in mind, space scale is about 20x smaller anyway, so that's roughly 56000' to your ship, but that's still very small for a planet. A Moon built to the same scale as Earth is now, would have a radius of 765'.

    The Earth's actual radius is about 3950 miles. The Distance from the Earth to the Moon is about 238,900 miles. Let's say we wanted to put the moon in, at it's appropriate distance, based on the current scale of Earth.


    2800 ____ X
    ____ = _____
    3950 _ 238,900

    Cross Multiply . . .

    668920000 = 3950X

    Divide both sides by 3950. . .

    169346.84'


    So, we could not put an appropriately scaled moon, in the same map with the current scaled Earth, at their appropriate distances, by a factor of 10.
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  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    So the only way to have a properly scaled moon it to make it part of the sky file instead of the object itself. Well that would put a damper on the request, that we all know would follow, about the moon moving in the back ground over time. Too bad the earth cannot rotate slowly.
  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,172 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    robdmc wrote: »
    So the only way to have a properly scaled moon it to make it part of the sky file instead of the object itself. Well that would put a damper on the request, that we all know would follow, about the moon moving in the back ground over time. Too bad the earth cannot rotate slowly.

    ESD is in geo-synchronis orbit, so from our perspective you wouldn't be able to see the rotation anyway.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Sorry, my fault. I moved the moon out to the skyfile when we rebuilt the Sol System map with ESD. I hated that the moon was so close as to be causing ultra tidal waves on Earth, and potentially eclipsing large chunks of the planet every day. I wanted the moon to look more like the quite large distance it actually is from Earth.


    You can also blame me for the Champs Moon Base stuff. . .

    Nope. Not your fault, dude. I wouldn't blame you if it was. You're an artist, man. Got to respect those skills.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    *FAIR WARNING* - The below is going to pull the curtain back on the wizard a bit. If you prefer to preserve your sense of immersion, do not read the rest of this post.

    About the biggest we can reasonably make the playable space of a map, is 30,000'x30,000', centered around 0,0,0. So 15,000 in any given direction. Past that, stuff starts going pear-shaped.


    At the moment, the model being used for Earth has a radius of 2800'. Keep in mind, space scale is about 20x smaller anyway, so that's roughly 56000' to your ship, but that's still very small for a planet. A Moon built to the same scale as Earth is now, would have a radius of 765'.

    The Earth's actual radius is about 3950 miles. The Distance from the Earth to the Moon is about 238,900 miles. Let's say we wanted to put the moon in, at it's appropriate distance, based on the current scale of Earth.


    2800 ____ X
    ____ = _____
    3950 _ 238,900

    Cross Multiply . . .

    668920000 = 3950X

    Divide both sides by 3950. . .

    169346.84'


    So, we could not put an appropriately scaled moon, in the same map with the current scaled Earth, at their appropriate distances, by a factor of 10.

    Okay. What I just said about you being an artist, still true, but now I have to say the only word that applies...

    NYRD!!!! :D

    reximuz wrote: »
    ESD is in geo-synchronis orbit, so from our perspective you wouldn't be able to see the rotation anyway.

    The fact that the sun never moves says your observation is incorrect. Also, every time my ship is in space, the Americas (both North and South) are facing the sun. :: shrug :: Perhaps this is because it's never night at the Academy which is in San Fransisco, California.

    And now someone can call ME a NYRD for MY observations. ;)
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Nope. Not your fault, dude. I wouldn't blame you if it was. You're an artist, man. Got to respect those skills.



    Okay. What I just said about you being an artist, still true, but now I have to say the only word that applies...

    NYRD!!!! :D




    The fact that the sun never moves says your observation is incorrect. Also, every time my ship is in space, the Americas (both North and South) are facing the sun. :: shrug :: Perhaps this is because it's never night at the Academy which is in San Fransisco, California.

    And now someone can call ME a NYRD for MY observations. ;)
    that last part is an engine limitation. each time you visit the map it sets Earth's rotation to a specific point in the cycle.
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  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,415 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »

    So, we could not put an appropriately scaled moon, in the same map with the current scaled Earth, at their appropriate distances, by a factor of 10.

    That's kinda what I expected. Out of curiosity, do you guys expect these limitations may change when the sector walls come down?
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    *FAIR WARNING* - The below is going to pull the curtain back on the wizard a bit. If you prefer to preserve your sense of immersion, do not read the rest of this post.

    About the biggest we can reasonably make the playable space of a map, is 30,000'x30,000', centered around 0,0,0. So 15,000 in any given direction. Past that, stuff starts going pear-shaped.


    At the moment, the model being used for Earth has a radius of 2800'. Keep in mind, space scale is about 20x smaller anyway, so that's roughly 56000' to your ship, but that's still very small for a planet. A Moon built to the same scale as Earth is now, would have a radius of 765'.

    The Earth's actual radius is about 3950 miles. The Distance from the Earth to the Moon is about 238,900 miles. Let's say we wanted to put the moon in, at it's appropriate distance, based on the current scale of Earth.


    2800 ____ X
    ____ = _____
    3950 _ 238,900

    Cross Multiply . . .

    668920000 = 3950X

    Divide both sides by 3950. . .

    169346.84'


    So, we could not put an appropriately scaled moon, in the same map with the current scaled Earth, at their appropriate distances, by a factor of 10.

    Thank you sir, that's very informative. I use AutoCAD2D& 3D for surveying and drafting work. It works off the same xyz -0,0,0 coordinate system.
    Very cool to see this from game design perspective. :)
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,771 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    what i take away from visiting ESD is that, in 2410, the earth stops rotating

    it was David Guetta
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    that last part is an engine limitation. each time you visit the map it sets Earth's rotation to a specific point in the cycle.

    Seriously? :eek: What to rotation in game time? I I ask 'cause I spent about a hour just checking out the sites. ESD, the many repair stations, the Science Platform, the Earth itself where I discover Atmosphere Surfing TM. But seriously, surfing close to planets is kind of cool. :D

    Oh, yeah, any way it never seemed to turn away from the Sun.
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  • willamsheridanwillamsheridan Member Posts: 1,189 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    My Idea is that the Sol system could be like the Battlezone where you go to different locations if yo lfy t the edges of the map: You are at ESD/Earth Orbit and fly towards the moon --> the next map brings you to moon orbit.

    In Moon orbit you can either go bach to ESD or fly towars the ohter side of the map where you can go to Mars and Utopia planitia.

    THat would solve the Problem with the big maps but i have no idea what you could be doing i Moon orbit or on the Moon, same with Mars.


    And i fear it would end up being as Andoria where you still can´t accept an Ushaan match
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