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Command Battlecruisers and Commander Engineering stations

ajgamer1701ajgamer1701 Member Posts: 191 Arc User
Ok, Cool :cool: another class of T6 ships, Command "Battle Cruisers" :) , but .... again with the "Commander Engineering" Boff Seating?

The "Commander Engineering" boff seat(General) and CMDR Eng Boff abilities must be the lamest of all other CMDR rank abilities, with the exception of Extend Shields 3 and maybe RSP3.

Why does almost every cruiser type class even in the "Battle-Cruiser" Class and often in the Dreadnought Class (except Scimitar and a few other faction ships)always have this as the Cmdr Seat?

If you ask me, Cruisers should be more modular to suit any and all Carreers in multiple combinations and playing styles at least in the Federation.

I mean we have a choice of Sci, Operations, and Tactical version so , .. what is wrong with the Science Command Battle-cruiser having a Cmdr Science boff station and Operations
with Cmdr Engineering and Tactical with a Cmdr Tactical?

Why does almost any class or sub class Cruiser must always have the Cmdr Eng Station? the lesser rank boff stations could be modified to balance instead.

Ships Such as say a T-5U Avenger Battle-Cruiser "Battle" a more tactical oriented ship could have a Cmdr Tac stn or even better since there is no other Sub-Career Class of the Avenger then perhaps it should have a Universal Cmdr Station?

With the T6 Cruiser Intel and now Command hybrid boff seats and abilities aside, I personally will not pay 3000 Zen for another Cruiser with an automatic Cmdr Engineering Boff station, I think this pattern of thinking in designing new cruisers/ships and revamping older cruisers and ships or at least commander engineering abilities is overdue for an overhaul.. but, ... that's just Me, my thinking and feedback.

Q'apla!
Post edited by ajgamer1701 on

Comments

  • edited February 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    So, basically OP, you want a Federation Scimitar?
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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I would prefer that Cruisers retain their Cmd Engineer station, cause Cruisers are commonly thought to be ENG-focused. That said, what I would like to see is dual cmd boff seats; one for ENG, and one for something else. This would of course sacrifice the lower seating, but I'd be content with that.

    Will it happen? Unsure.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Cruiser = CMD Engineering. That's still fixed in the base design of the game.

    Cruiser = Eng, Escort = Tac, Science = Sci.

    "Battlecruisers" were originally a Klingon thing to emphasize that Klingons use Battlecruisers and starfleet does not use ships build for combat (yes, they gave a big f-you to canon rules long ago). A Battlecruiser is the same as a cruiser but it exchanges a bit of HP for better manoeuvreability and one ENG console for a TAC console. Other than that, a Battlecruiser is the equivalent to a "regular" cruiser.

    All those wishy-washy terms Cryptic came up with to sell powercreep don't really matter. The game is still a trinity game in it's design and they are unwilling or unable to adapt to the fact that it doesn't work. It never worked, for that matter.

    The Scimitar and lockbox "dreadnaughts" with CMD tac are a blatant moneygrab (in the case of the scimitar it has even been verified by a dev (I want to say "Geko", but I don't know anymore) who openly told us "OP sells").
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    The Command Battlecruisers can use command specialization powers in that commander station.

    Besides that, a commander Engineering station is the defining feature that makes the ship a cruiser.
    Turn it into a Tactical and you don't have a cruiser anymore but an escort or a destroyer depending on the secondary features.
    Turn it into a Science and you have a science vessel or a carrier depending on the secondary features.

    You can't marry a bachelor without him not being a bachelor anymore. ;)
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Why would you get the ship(s) at all if you're not going to put Command powers in the top slot? :confused:

    If you don't have a Engineer/Command boff yet, there's a free one in the maze part of Dust to Dust. Easy to find with the minimap. Use her and never worry about having to settle for Aceton Beam III again. :cool:
  • timelord79timelord79 Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    warpangel wrote: »
    Why would you get the ship(s) at all if you're not going to put Command powers in the top slot? :confused:

    If you don't have a Engineer/Command boff yet, there's a free one in the maze part of Dust to Dust. Easy to find with the minimap. Use her and never worry about having to settle for Aceton Beam III again. :cool:

    That is what I do, the Boff comes with 2 Engineering abilities and 2 Command abilities.
    I need to look into what training I can provide to get more interesting powers and maybe get one of my Andorian crewmembers into that seat again. i like haveing the unique Boffs but prefer an Andorian crew for RP reasons. ;)
    11750640_1051211588222593_450219911807924697_n.jpg
  • kelshandokelshando Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I agree with the OP.. just not on cruisers.

    The idea that you are forced to slot certain ranked officers at certain stations is odd. Yes I understand its for game play balance but over all a more realistic system would be limit the ranks of the boffs and type but allow you to slot them anywhere. Such as.

    If a ship now has CMDR eng, LT CMDR Tac, and a LT SCI locked to whose types.. a better system would be the same ship but look like this.

    The ship must have 1 ENG, 1 TAC and 1 SCI but the player choice on what stations those crew command. So you could have a CMDR TAC for one mission and then switch out for a CMDR SCI for another mission.

    This would allow the captain to crew the ship with the type of officers he needs vs being pigeon hold. Granted this would mean there would need to be a huge balance pass on ships and boff skills so it would never happen but I would rather have the flexibility to put Officers of a certain skill where needed. After all we are Generals and Admirals we should be able to pick the most effective crews and where they should station on our ship. If I need my Tac ship with a commander in science for a certain mission.. well darn it I should be able to assign it.
  • furlong359furlong359 Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I've brought this point up multiple times, and each time the board mods have shut it down . Their excuse is that it opens the thread to becomes a flame cryptic one . Which is too bad since there are some great ideas to come out of Them .

    I agree with the person who said that universal slots won't happen since cryptic still believes that there is a Trinity to be had here ( in game).
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    kelshando wrote: »
    I agree with the OP.. just not on cruisers.

    The idea that you are forced to slot certain ranked officers at certain stations is odd. Yes I understand its for game play balance but over all a more realistic system would be limit the ranks of the boffs and type but allow you to slot them anywhere. Such as.

    If a ship now has CMDR eng, LT CMDR Tac, and a LT SCI locked to whose types.. a better system would be the same ship but look like this.

    The ship must have 1 ENG, 1 TAC and 1 SCI but the player choice on what stations those crew command. So you could have a CMDR TAC for one mission and then switch out for a CMDR SCI for another mission.

    This would allow the captain to crew the ship with the type of officers he needs vs being pigeon hold. Granted this would mean there would need to be a huge balance pass on ships and boff skills so it would never happen but I would rather have the flexibility to put Officers of a certain skill where needed. After all we are Generals and Admirals we should be able to pick the most effective crews and where they should station on our ship. If I need my Tac ship with a commander in science for a certain mission.. well darn it I should be able to assign it.

    While it would make sense it would sabotage the main source of income for Cryptic. Looks don't sell ships, only stats do. And if you want to change your layout you have to buy a new ship. By allowing a free distribution like that they would probably lose a lot of ship sales.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • edited February 2015
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  • edited February 2015
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  • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Have you tried putting, oh, I don't know...DEM3 in the CMDR Engineering slot?

    Or maybe one of those new Command powers, like Call Emergency Artillery, or Suppression Fire?

    And no, you don't need to be of a specific level in the Command Spec track, you can buy Command BOffs, and there's a free one in the Dust To Dust mission.
  • john98837john98837 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It is long overdue for the feds to have a true dreadnought or battleship instead of all these cruisers having the name battle or dreadnought slapped on them, while they are barely different than any other fed cruiser. A fed scimitar would be a great seller and help balance the factions to a degree.
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Feds need an Assault Command Jupiter. Tac version has Cmdr Tac/Intel and Cmdr Eng/Command Hybrid. Spam all those skills while broadsiding and pop BO cooldown for a double dose.

    Sci Assault Command Jupiter would have a Cmdr Sci seat instead (no Hybrid), but carry triple hangars with Defiant Frigate pets. Still retains the Cmdr Eng/Command Hybrid.

    Eng Assault Command Jupiter would have an Lt. Cmdr Tac and an Lt. Cmdr Sci (still retaining the Cmdr Eng/Command Hybrid) carries a BFG with a 20km range, and a beam with a 1.5km diameter, capable of doing AoE and piercing multiple targets. With a beam duration of 5 seconds (begins to fade out and lose AoE abiilty 3 seconds in as the beam shrinks to a narrow line; still can pierce).

    Then KDF would get similar versions; except the Tac version is downgraded to Lt.Cmdr Tac/Intel in return for a hangar, the Sci version loses a hangar for more mobility, and the the Eng version downgrades the Lt. Cmdr Sci to Lt Sci in return for a Hangar.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    furlong359 wrote: »
    I agree with the person who said that universal slots won't happen since cryptic still believes that there is a Trinity to be had here ( in game).

    For space combat? There isn't and shouldn't be. they're SPACE SHIPS, FFS.

    As for ground, you can't honestly claim theres a trinity when the most interesting Sci officers focus on debuffs, and dps engineers are so popular.

    it's a much more complex and interesting system than "trinity" which is a stale idea from the 90s.

    it's time to make room in our geometry for more complex shapes.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    Have you tried putting, oh, I don't know...DEM3 in the CMDR Engineering slot?

    Or maybe one of those new Command powers, like Call Emergency Artillery, or Suppression Fire?

    And no, you don't need to be of a specific level in the Command Spec track, you can buy Command BOffs, and there's a free one in the Dust To Dust mission.

    Or even A2SIF3. That power is a very strong one, and I can't believe it didn't get mentioned.

    Seriously, this guy needs to go have a talk with all the "cruisers are op" thread makers.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

    Tacs are overrated.

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Or even A2SIF3. That power is a very strong one, and I can't believe it didn't get mentioned.

    Seriously, this guy needs to go have a talk with all the "cruisers are op" thread makers.

    I was surprised as well.

    A2SIF3, DEM3, and Suppressive Fire (Command) are the best abilities to put in that slot and all are extremely useful.

    People get it in their head that if it doesn't have a Commander Tactical that it's a waste, not sure where that comes from.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You guys know that Suppressive Fire (at least vIII) BUFFs the enemy's accuracy, right? :D
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You guys know that Suppressive Fire (at least vIII) BUFFs the enemy's accuracy, right? :D

    I never got a straight answer on that, but I thought that was only in PvP.

    I also can't find if it only effects Suppression III or if it's all versions.

    I use Suppression II right now just in case.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I never got a straight answer on that, but I thought that was only in PvP.

    I also can't find if it only effects Suppression III or if it's all versions.

    I use Suppression II right now just in case.

    To correct myself it's Suppression Barrage. It's not just a PVP thing. Instead of debuffing enemy accuracy it buffs it. Guys relying on stuff like Reciprocity to kick off when NPCs miss you, were hardly benefiting from it when NPCs were under the effect of Suppression Barrage.

    Supposedly Cryptic had a fix for it in one of their internal builds middle-late February. Well, it's almost the middle of March now.

    Edit: One thing's for sure. If one wants to troll his own team, esp if there's lots of Feds (and there will be), you use Suppression Barrage :D Reciprocity will be useless.
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  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So, basically OP, you want a Federation Scimitar?


    and why not? fed dread still doesn't come close whats wrong with wanting "The Vengeance" lol I know that wouldn't be cannon but..... lol

    oh the irony of this after what I said in another thread.

    Truly at times I think the solution to everyones wants and desires is just to take all the romulans, kdf and feds make one giant faction maybe RomKlinkFed which I will call RKF and stuff all the ships in one big pile and take the sticker off the game and call it 'World of Spaceships' or something and be done with it :P

    then it will solve all the problems :/
  • oneratsonerats Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I rather agree with the OP's opinion. The other factions don't separate their ships out in the same manner as the federation does. The federation seems to be locked into this Cruiser, escort, science philosophy that's existed since day one.. and it's rather silly tbh. It's time they dropped that system and started coming out with ships that break the mold. Science/Cruiser style ships with Commander Tactical stations or escorts with Commander Science/Engineer. It'd allow for a lot more variety, and it'd sure be nice to actually have a federation 4/4 or 5/3 ship that's able to run Omega 3.

    As for those saying to just use command abilities in that engineering station. Don't. Just don't. They're terrible. You're far better off with regular old engineering abilities like DEM 3 or RSP3.
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