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Extra Credits on Harrassment...
imruined
Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
There have been many people refer to Extra Credits when attacking Cryptic over their business practices, however, I found this clip quite interesting and could not help but think that this relates so much to the forums...
Certain individuals use these forums as a platform to attack Cryptic, and anyone who might even remotely agree with, or simply understand Cryptic's position and, though clearly stemming from GamerGate abuse, it applies dramatically well here...
Extra Credits : Harassment...
Certain individuals use these forums as a platform to attack Cryptic, and anyone who might even remotely agree with, or simply understand Cryptic's position and, though clearly stemming from GamerGate abuse, it applies dramatically well here...
Extra Credits : Harassment...
The entitlement is strong in these forums...
Post edited by imruined on
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Doesn't seem the word is getting out there enough.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Well hate to break it too you Cryptic isn't no angle them self, however if these people really hated it so much they could always leave. Then it hits ya they don't wanna leave the game they actually want to play the game.
Some of them do have good points, but take it too far most of the time because it was removed leaving them feel like they had no right to say what they said. Then this caused it to a point of now none of them are looking at the forums because well lets be honest with this many people complaining who would ?
In the end its a good thing to see people complaining because it does show that people still do care about the game still. I would be more worried if the forums suddenly got quite as that would be a sign that they have given up on the game.
In the end you either accept the complaining or let it die and be forgotten.
Yeah , and the viewscore on it is relatively low as well .
As to the topic -- well , we did have a "ignore" button way back in the Atari days .
Then we got moved to the PW platforms and that went away even tho some ppl still ask for it .
I remember having some ppl on ignore , and I have no doubt some folks had me on it as well .
And that's ok .
My rants probably caused them less stress , just as the stupid dumbass self righteous ignorant self centered forum-pvping "white knights" caused me less stress .
Yes OP , that means that you too would have probably made it to my ignore list , just like about half a dozen current trolls who thrive on "giving an opposite view" not for the sake of a give and take argument , but to but to TRIBBLE in the pudding of someone who they don't agree with . See your sig for further details about what's wrong with you and your opinions .
And you know what ?
That would have been a good thing .
Even better -- it would have been a better thing then what the "community police" that the video suggests .
Why ?
Because collectively we are all dumbasses , and I for one would not trust our collective dumbassery to work in our favor .
I look at the cliquey downvoting that goes on on STOReddit and I am horrified .
I am horrified that some ppl post their opinions there and they add their expectation to get downvoted ... -- when in general there is nothing wrong with their opinion .
It's just an opinion . And they don't do on an fing crusade on it like the OP does with his .
But either low self esteem or disillusionment with the Reddit community has pushed them to expect not to be liked .
You may have noticed in between the lines of my postings one thing : I really don't care if my opinion is not liked .
That is not a priority for me .
But I do recognise that some folks with lower self esteem do connect their self worth and the like / dislike of their opinions , and to ppl like that "community police'd" places like Reddit could be not only devastating , but their very personas might morph into something that it is not just to be liked .
And some of the Reddit folks think their platform (and those on it) are superior to this place .
That perception is always good for a laugh .
Anyhow , to cap things up -- our previous "Ignore" button was pretty much what may be needed today .
It represents self policing , instead of "police by a crowd of ... (nevermind) " , and that is how things should be .
YOU should be in control , not someone else ... , which is why personal "mute" is ok , but "mute" by group is a horrible idea ... , which is why that particular Extra Credits vid is something of a flop (IMHO) . :P
The OP is posting nonsense.
His reason for posting is a bit off the mark, but the sentiment is certainly right on topic.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I look at that then your sig and my brain went in a loop.
The bigger problem is that some individuals cannot take to the forums without abusing Cryptic... This even extends to other forum goers, simply for having a different opinion...
This is a feature I personally feel would be a nice addition, it still doesn't address the underlying issue so doesn't fix the problem itself overall...
And, this is exactly what this clip refers to... Because such people have a differing opinion, you take to name calling and abuse...
And here we see another part of the problem right there... My opinion is not 'wrong' it just differs from your own...
Yet, because I actually do not agree with many of the people on these forums, who really should be looking at this clip, and those who my signature (thanks for noticing) is directed at, that apparently makes me 'wrong'...
I'm afraid to say, in that, you are indeed mistaken... You've shown that you feel entirely comfortable abusing others for a differing opinion, and are happy for anyone to share their opinion, provided it correlates with your own, otherwise they are a
The point of posting this clip was indeed a, perhaps naive, hope that some people would see it, given the current forum climate, and reconsider whether abuse of Cryptic (and other forum users) is indeed the best way to voice their issues...
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
It was a bit overdramatic, I think. You can be overly rude and nasty, yes, but it's still not harassment. Harassment, to me, is much more sever than angry posts about someone. I could be way off base, though. :P
Rude and nasty can indeed be construed as harassment... You'd be surprised what qualifies in the real world...
Harassment is not judged by the person putting it out, but by the person receiving it...
What you or I would shrug off as someone being overtly rude or nasty, someone else may consider quite denigrating and overtly abusive.
Judge not what you say to others, but by the way you would have them say it to you.
:cool:
(I need a Moses smiley)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Catcalling is considered a form of harassment, for example.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Not inherently, but it's really easy to cross the line.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
There people who where subbed to them years ago that hated their move to free to play and still hate them till this day for doing it. (my guess is some of those people are those people).
Then you have another half that thinks they should get everything that a person who spends $300 would get.
When you put two different worlds together you get a blood bath it's that simple. It's the same in the real world and it would most defiantly be the same in the fictional world as well. That is the basic human nature "we always think we are the ones right"!
I *did* say I could be wrong, after all.
Harassment goes both ways, the playerbase was quite literally harassed by the developers just after DR was released. There were accusations and actions taken that were out of order, especially seeing as the playerbase had indeed informed Cryptic of the problem prior to the release of DR.
So before everyone spouts out about harassment, please take into consideration the circumstances faced. Currently there is a positive ripple emanating from Cryptic, however the flames from the dilithium week are still being fanned when it's just a case of a bit of extra Dil.
I find that peoples reactions to this have been extreme compared to using logic.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
particularly for one with a penchant for stirring the pot and a sig that begs for conflict.
as for the extra credits vid, i have never seen in sto the sort of harassment they are addressing.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Get a grip of yourself OP.
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2. as 1 is true then the game requires feedback.
3. cryptic/pwe should expect feedback of all sorts, if they didn't want it they shouldn't be in this business.
4. the game dies without feedback, developers wouldn't know what they were doing wrong or what they did right, couldn't fix bugs since no one would report them.
5. being in the mmo business cryptic/pwe should also expect angry feedback when they change mechanics or new bugs crop up. they are messing with players fun, their builds and in some cases massive investments in time that becomes invalid due to mechanic changes.
cryptic/pwe and a lot of publishers/developers don't get that. that when they TRIBBLE with mechanics in the office looking at the numbers they aren't seeing what the players want, what they've invested, nothing.
there's no harassment here, any that occurs is short lived ban hammer solves that. cryptic/pwe is a business not a person and that business requires feedback. no matter how polite, rude, angry, or abusive IT IS STILL FEEDBACK. not harassment.
now, stick the shoe on cryptics foot...we get lied to, bugs, glitches, treated like idiots, called exploiters, etc...which is more abusive in this mmo relationship? 1 player ragging on cryptic? or cryptic TRIBBLE up things and telling thousands players to just deal with it or it's the players fault?
quit trying to defend cryptic and further blaming players. cryptic can change the animosity since they were the ones that created it...it wasn't one day a few players or many just suddenly decided to get upset. it was in a direct response to things cryptic did.
if you mess with something someone had fun with and invested a lot of time/money into...expect some anger. deal with it since you invited it.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Don't forget that a large majority of the attacks come from non players.
People who left the game and now post on the forums to hurt STO.
You can harass cryptic, just like you can harass people with negatives opinion on the game/Cryptic.
Just saying.
First off, your agenda permeates any post you make.
Second, you have stretched too far on this one. The video you linked? You didn't even watch it, did you? It has nothing to do with hating devs. Know what it's about? Childish trolls that are abusive to other players. Nothing in that video applies except one thing at the very beginning. It said mindless anger is not helpful without some direction. Well the community's anger is NOT mindless, and it IS directed specificially in response to direct actions the devs have taken to reduce gameplay quality time and time and time again while marginalizing the playerbase that keeps them in business and ignores all logic, all details, all bug reports, anything that doesn't conform to the dev-in-charge's preconceived notions of how to tank this game.
So, imruined, you fail again. Your agenda is too strong and you make leaps of faith to get to a point that's too far to complete the leap. Go back to brown nosing.
Well list the options you think are available ?!
A "ignore" button you say is not enough .
What then ?
The video offered "community police" by group mentality . That I refused on the basis of the community itself .
What next then ?
Check your pretentious sig buddy .
Referring , or rather generalizing with the term "entitlement" is not there to be non-offensive .
I'm sure that you have not noticed but many if not all of us have rarely if ever demanded things vehemently that we did not have before .
But to you and your kind , demanding something that has been present for X amount of time and then taken away is "entitlement" .
I think that you get a kick out of calling ppl "entitled" .
At best I can call that attitude inconsiderate and busybodying .
I have a few more colorful metaphors to describe that behavior , along with the other baiting that you do on these forums .
I have viewed the clip .
The fact that I opposed group policing should have alerted you to that as that is one of the suggestions made in the clip .
Here's an example of entitlement :
"I have payed Cryptic X amounts of $$ , and I demand XYZ ! "
That is entitlement .
"The game had X amount of Dil as awards and now it does not , I'd like this reversed ."
That is not entitlement .
The latter has been said in various ways during every one of Cryptic's Dil & award nerfs since Season 7 .
Now Season 7 was a long time (and many a nerfs) ago .
And no matter how many times you want to twist it around , it will still not be entitlement .
As far as Cryptic/PWE goes, my general thought on that is, "Attack the problem, not the person." I think I can make my points and my criticisms very effectively without having to resort to ad hominem attacks. I also try--though I am not always good at it--to avoid assuming I know everything about why they do things or what kind of people they are. But that doesn't mean white knighting. I can call a bad decision a bad decision without saying the person who did it must be an idiot or a horrible person.
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Same here. People very strangely assume that I hate the game or hate Cryptic with no actual evidence to back that up. If I find a problem with the game I point it out. Not once have I engaged in a personal attack against a member of Cryptic's staff.
Free Tibet!
Metrics have replaced feedback. What we think as players is irrelevent as to what we *do*as players. It's all about manipulating behavior in today's "games".
The bottom line is every single player in STO could say the same thing, have the same complaint, and if it doesn't match the metrics they're looking at, it gets ignored. I think that's where the snarkyness from some at PWE/Cryptic came from/comes from. Our issues are "boo-hoos" to them if they're altering the game has a beneficial outcome in the numbers.
It's the weirdest thing if a person thinks about it. It's more like companies like Cryptic playing the players rather than the players playing a game that's made. And like the little sheeple we all are, we flock to it because it's "free" (TM)
There are some seriously talented people at Cryptic. Great artist, good coders, etc. As broken as this game is, somehow, for 5 years, they've managed to band-aid it together and make money doing it. Credit where it's due. The Titanic still floats.
But this isn't *really* a game. There's no end to it. There's no end-game. It's just a cycle of them releasing items or systems and us buying them or buying into them. It literally has no point and yet, at one time, STO was a great hobby for a lot of people. People made great connections and had good times. And now, each in our own ways, we as players are buried in grind caused by...items that are fairly pointless and come out so often they make themselves irrelevent withing weeks or months. Rules keep changing. People lose millions in EC and countless hours spent working towards that special BOFF...and it's powers get clean-slated if not one of the "special" ones. Maybe not one of these things is important to any one person but collectively?
My point is player feedback in today's MMO world, particularly STO, doesn't really matter if they're making bank, does it? STO was almost DOA they day they took it over and its made a lot of people a lot of money but that seems to be all it's about now. Money. The quality of STO, the QoL aspects keep taking two steps backwards and the one step forward it takes should make us all thankful, I guess.
All i know is STO felt like a cool *game* up until DR. Now it feels like some twisted shell-game designed to separate me from my money. Yes, they're putting in more rewards...after basically scaling back everything everywhere. I also know, outside of recent events, they have farily consistently done the opposite of what I hear in-game, on these forums, on Reddit and other sites.
My only conclusion is what I took the time to write here. What we think about anything doesn't really matter to Cryptic. The nerf sticks are gigantic and we get half baby carrots. Even the white knights are becoming resolved to the only argument being "Hey, they gotsta make lootz, man!"
Yeah. Ok. I just regret the "game" of STO taking second place to making money. Make a good, stable, player-friendly product and people will buy all sorts of stuff. Make a time-gated, abstract-systems based dil sink and eventually, people begin to catch on and get mad.
Man, apparently I had to really get that out, lol
My voodoo dolls are powered by refined dilithium.
Strangely I haven't been able to use them for a while
Free Tibet!