Why do the same mistakes keep happening time after time?

darramouss1

These days I work for myself. In the old days, when I worked for someone else, I was accountable for my actions. If I made an error, it was my performance report and pay level that suffered.

How is it that error after error after error gets made in this game, yet we don't see any new devs? Is this because there's no accountability at Cryptic? As an example, my loadout trays STILL don't save. This issue has been going on for way too long. Add to that the numerous other issues that keep hanging around and we're forced to ask, "Why isn't someone being held accountable?"

hypl

No one is being held accountable because the 5th anniversary celebration is the best anniversary ever and the players love it.

darramouss1

Just as I finished typing this I was disconnected. Then the post didn't go up, forcing me to wait 120 seconds. Awesome!!

billdun

darramouss1 wrote: »

These days I work for myself. In the old days, when I worked for someone else, I was accountable for my actions. If I made an error, it was my performance report and pay level that suffered.

How is it that error after error after error gets made in this game, yet we don't see any new devs? Is this because there's no accountability at Cryptic? As an example, my loadout trays STILL don't save. This issue has been going on for way too long. Add to that the numerous other issues that keep hanging around and we're forced to ask, "Why isn't someone being held accountable?"

Players continue to spend money, so nothing else matters.

janus1975

I suspect that they have some very tired faddish "metrics" which are seen internally as the be-all-and-end-all of measurement, of which money is one, time on game is another. In other words, things like usability and quality aren't measured, thus, it doesn't matter how badly the game performs, so long as there's X players on the game on average and there's $X spent per day.

supergirl1611

Cryptics metric are as follows.

1. Check servers, how many people logged on ?. x amount good everything is working
2. How much zen is being purchased x amount good everything is working fine

How Cryptics metrics don't work

1, New content is loaded onto Tribble Player feedback is ignored even though it is valid.
2. Forums valid, well reasoned concerns about upcoming changes to content, bug reports act ignored.(Yes a lot of posts are flame posts this post you can class as one as well)

So as long as A. People are in the game and B. money is being spent Cryptic could't give a flying monkey. Or so it appears as the 2 main methods of feeding info back to the Dev's seem to not be taken seriously. Tribble feedback is the most concerning as its a live server with people testing upcoming content.

markhawkman

I'm pretty sure that it's because the management sets the timetable and is happy that it gets to a nearly perfect product before release.... seriously.... try acquiring omegas as KDF, it's EASY.... at least compared to fed, since KDF side it almost always works.

mustrumridcully0

If the same systems break down repeatedly, it could mean that the system is too complex or complicated - and a new developer is no more likely to be able to do it better than the ones that already know the system.

Of course, eventually it's time to get working on that system and rework it to be less "sensitive" (or arcane). But if it requires a major overhaul, it may take more time than people are willing to spend. And if fixing one particular problem area takes a lot of time, it can mean new features are delayed, or that other bugs don't get fixed in that time - so it needs to be carefully weighed and planned.

kthang

janus1975 wrote: »

I suspect that they have some very tired faddish "metrics" which are seen internally as the be-all-and-end-all of measurement, of which money is one, time on game is another. In other words, things like usability and quality aren't measured, thus, it doesn't matter how badly the game performs, so long as there's X players on the game on average and there's $X spent per day.

^^ This, or something along those lines.

As with any MMO, these days, forumites are just a miniscule number of people compared to the whole playerbase even though we might be the most hardcore fans of Star Trek. Some of us at least.

Most players in MMOs are simple folk, with simple pleasures. See starship, fly starship. Fun. Ooooh Epho. Fun. If something technical happens, like rubberbanding they usually go 'oh my, they certainly are having problems today. poor souls, they must work hard. this is after all a free to play game, how can the even make money'. ;-)

This group is largely the majority, and as long as they keep pumping in cash and staying online. Well, here we are and grab yer ankles.

ragnar0x

Why because it is THE BEST of THE BEST of THE BEST game out there so far. I just love this THE BEST game. So much players playing this, even my grandma playes this with wireless in heaven.

gulberat

Off subject mustrumridcully, I wanted to point out that signatures do allow links. Feel free to PM if you need help inserting one.

markhawkman

gulberat wrote: »

Off subject mustrumridcully, I wanted to point out that signatures do allow links. Feel free to PM if you need help inserting one.

His sig HAS a link..... he just left the text in the picture....

keepitnasty

NEVER CHANGE A RUNNING SYSTEM!!!

I am no longer confused as to why Cryptic's STO team continues to have their problems...simply...it's ineptitude.

I am also no longer surprised that Cryptic's STO team continues to do the same thing but believes they will get different results.

I am absolutely sure that there is heated discussion during meetings about changes among the creative and technical teams...if you (Cryptic employee) are always in disagreement with the decision makers or the status quo...start secretly looking for a new job...and let Cryptic, as it is now, get cleaned by PWE or crash and burn.

And in case you are wondering what specifics I am referring to when I say "problems" and "changes"...I just don't have the time....simply scroll "today's posts" and you'll find the latest batch...

mustrumridcully0

gulberat wrote: »

Off subject mustrumridcully, I wanted to point out that signatures do allow links. Feel free to PM if you need help inserting one.

Yeah, I think I learned that already some time ago. I really need to get rid of that ancient signature, but I am sooo lazy.

kthang

keepitnasty wrote: »

NEVER CHANGE A RUNNING SYSTEM!!!

I am no longer confused as to why Cryptic's STO team continues to have their problems...simply...it's ineptitude.

<......>

Lol, that made me think of this epic clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qo2c1Vnh1s

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janus1975

valoreah wrote: »

Maybe it's one of those predestination paradox thingys.......

Either that, or STO is being run by people who would be more at home on Red Dwarf :rolleyes:

ovrkyl

They should have just added the last line to the release notes...

Known Issues:

• Foundry functions are not available at this time.
• The mini game for “Omega Molecule Stabilization” will occasionally finish in the middle of playing the game.
  • Player will still receive credit towards the mission.
• A few lines of VO are missing from the episode “Taris”.
• The Captain’s chair on the bridge on the APU ship cannot be sat in.
• KDF players do not appear in the scoreboard at the end of a PVP match.
• The devs just don't give a damn about the game anymore.

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darramouss1

deokkent wrote: »

The way I see it, a few trek geeks banded together and decided to salvage code created by Perpetual entertainment. They will maintain it for their own amusement and finance their treasured package by making it public and baiting other trekkies into paying for their hobby.

Lol the devs are probably thinking, watching all the whiners: "Don't be an entitled douche, you should be thanking the heavens for the privilege bestowed upon you ."

The thing is you're right, they're thinking that were actually acting like entitled douches. I don't think so. I think paying for a product and expecting it to work is a bare minimum of any service.

darramouss1

Oh, and I've had to manually restore the layout on one ship five times already in an hour. And yes, I'm saving the loadout each time.

BIG THUMBS UP, CRYPTIC!!!

billdun

darramouss1 wrote: »

I think paying for a product and expecting it to work is a bare minimum of any service.

I agree. I'm amazed players spend hundreds, and perhaps thousands:eek:, on this game.


That said, I'm sure the Cryptic Defense Force will be here shortly to debunk your "entitled, hysterical ranting". smh...

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mirrorterran

This will, of course, get buried amongst all the whining...but you might want to consider that a zero or one in the wrong place can cause the entire game to crash.

You can continue to stomp your feet and pull your hair out but unless you know where that zero or one is it won't help.

janus1975

mirrorterran wrote: »

This will, of course, get buried amongst all the whining...but you might want to consider that a zero or one in the wrong place can cause the entire game to crash.

You can continue to stomp your feet and pull your hair out but unless you know where that zero or one is it won't help.

Yes, and I know that it can be as small as that.

Generally speaking, a new patch or expansion doesn't bother me. Yes, there will be some issues and bugs around, and that's okay. If there's a workaround, then it's nearly as good as solved for me.

New missions will always have something, and when the problems get acknowledged and fixed, then great. I'll be patient.

However, when multiple changes are added at once, when problems go unacknowledged, and especially, when many of the changes are unnecessary then I get annoyed. The change to the icons was unnecessary. The change to the boff training system was largely unnecessary (except for potentially enabling c-store captain-level boff training). The feedback from these two means that the bugs in the loadouts are just more difficult, and for entirely unnecessary reasons. And all this, while there's the anniversary with its bugs, and new missions, with their bugs.

The rule to finding a problem is fairly straightforward: "What has changed?"

This is easy to follow when you have changed one thing. Add the anniversary event, and if there's a problem, then you can track it to something in that change. Change multiple systems at once, and then where do you look?

From a PR perspective, they could have made January/February "Fifth Anniversary Month!" with "First this, then a week later that, then there will be these new events, and then the new training system..." but instead, they've made a big stinking mess on the floor, which is due largely to a range of unnecessary changes and a few additions which could have been spaced out better anyway.

And that's why I'm annoyed.

mirrorterran

janus1975 wrote: »

Yes, and I know that it can be as small as that.

Generally speaking, a new patch or expansion doesn't bother me. Yes, there will be some issues and bugs around, and that's okay. If there's a workaround, then it's nearly as good as solved for me.

New missions will always have something, and when the problems get acknowledged and fixed, then great. I'll be patient.

However, when multiple changes are added at once, when problems go unacknowledged, and especially, when many of the changes are unnecessary then I get annoyed. The change to the icons was unnecessary. The change to the boff training system was largely unnecessary (except for potentially enabling c-store captain-level boff training). The feedback from these two means that the bugs in the loadouts are just more difficult, and for entirely unnecessary reasons. And all this, while there's the anniversary with its bugs, and new missions, with their bugs.

The rule to finding a problem is fairly straightforward: "What has changed?"

This is easy to follow when you have changed one thing. Add the anniversary event, and if there's a problem, then you can track it to something in that change. Change multiple systems at once, and then where do you look?

From a PR perspective, they could have made January/February "Fifth Anniversary Month!" with "First this, then a week later that, then there will be these new events, and then the new training system..." but instead, they've made a big stinking mess on the floor, which is due largely to a range of unnecessary changes and a few additions which could have been spaced out better anyway.

And that's why I'm annoyed.

I won't pick apart your comment, I'll boil it down to "Change multiple systems at once, and then where do you look?"

Unfortunately, this is a timeless problem when it comes to businesses and customers. It has nothing to do with Cryptic, PWE, Star Trek, or computers. If they had slowly rolled out Delta Rising, or even this current patch for that matter, no one would have bothered to notice. It's the name of the game and it's how the bills get paid whether you like it or not.

janus1975

mirrorterran wrote: »

I won't pick apart your comment, I'll boil it down to "Change multiple systems at once, and then where do you look?"

Unfortunately, this is a timeless problem when it comes to businesses and customers. It has nothing to do with Cryptic, PWE, Star Trek, or computers. If they had slowly rolled out Delta Rising, or even this current patch for that matter, no one would have bothered to notice. It's the name of the game and it's how the bills get paid whether you like it or not.

Well then, enjoy your bugs.

stelakkh

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

If the same systems break down repeatedly, it could mean that the system is too complex or complicated - and a new developer is no more likely to be able to do it better than the ones that already know the system.

Since Cryptic's STO (to separate it from the vaporware STO that never came to be) was developed by Cryptic. The STO we're playing today has only ever had one developer, and that's the really amazing part of what's wrong with the game. They should know how to fix it.

But I don't think they do. I don't believe they know their own code, and I don't believe they understand what they do know.

When they have a bug like, say, the loadouts bug.

Now I know, people say it's fixed - but it's not. I don't know one person in my fleet that doesn't still have it. I still see people complain about it on these forums. People are complaining about it in Local and Zone all the time. Cryptic says they fixed it, but they didn't.

That shows me a bit of what's going on, but there's more.

New Romulan players would get trapped at Starfleet Academy. Remember that? It went on for quite some time because, well, I can only guess it was because Cryptic has 1,000 monkeys all in a room with a keyboard and a computer each, typing code. Kind of like that whole "Give enough monkeys typewiters and enough time and they'll come up with Shakespeare" thing.

They "fixed" that bug, but do you know where it showed up when you were able to beam out of SFA? Fleet Starbase.

Yep. Some Romulans would go to their fleet's Starbase and be trapped hanging in space outside the base. Couldn't warp out, couldn't use the transwarp gate, couldn't beam down, nothing. The only way to get out was to log the character off and on again.

They didn't kill the bug, it just relocated.

And so on.

And that tells me they're writing new code on top of old code without actually FIXING the old code that's causing the problem in the first place.

That is why bugs that showed up when we were playing in Beta still crop up in the "live" game 5 years later.

They're not fixing anything, they're just moving it around. That suggests to me that they don't know their own code and are, I suspect, incapable of understanding it.

That's why I have, for five years now, been saying that they need to just let this version of STO die, so fans of Star Trek can live in the hope that one day a decent developer will pick up the franchise and do it justice.

Happy bloody Anniversary.

koihimenakamura

It's actually really really hard to refactor a in-production system. Especially since they a) have to find the bug and b) confirm no reversions (and there have been a few) and more than likely c) the devs aren't exactly encouraged to spend a lot of time on fixing old content rather than developing new.

(Although, they are replacing systems which is usually a good sign of a refactor.)

moonshadowdark

darramouss1 wrote: »

These days I work for myself. In the old days, when I worked for someone else, I was accountable for my actions. If I made an error, it was my performance report and pay level that suffered.

How is it that error after error after error gets made in this game, yet we don't see any new devs? Is this because there's no accountability at Cryptic? As an example, my loadout trays STILL don't save. This issue has been going on for way too long. Add to that the numerous other issues that keep hanging around and we're forced to ask, "Why isn't someone being held accountable?"

Probably because of the whole "shrinking talent pool" of game developers that's been going down since 2009. Despite the thousands of indie game companies popping out of Kickstarter and Steam, it seems that none of these companies or their staffs ever seem to stick around the industry. They churn out a game and then sort of just quit. As of now, the current talent pool for developers and designers is pretty small. Most game studio developers are all experienced vets who were poached, bought out or transferred to other big name studios and publishers. The guys who are currently running Wildstar are all ex Blizzard developers, right?

Game development is on the stand still. Can't understand how, with how easy it is too learn the ins and outs of game development these days. Heck, they have entire college courses about them on the splash page of some pretty reputable school's websites.

zntech

There is lot of wisdom on this thread.

Everything what I can say is from my domain of work and life in IT industry of more then 26 yrs. is,
I can't afford spoiled system of thinking , if some problem appears on the OpanStack Cloud or
Docker Cloud or any other part of the systems , I have to resolve the problems in best-est fast-est possible way or my clients will not pay me, this is lot of pressure .

So everyone make mistake its understandable but if you repeat same mistake twice or more and more times you have serious mental condition , than you need urgent immediate inside change or the pressure will crush you like bug, if not some one laundering the money .

Cryptic suffer from lack of leadership - good management,experience and capability to make crucial changes, Cryptic was a pain in the Atari TRIBBLE now their are pain in the PWE TRIBBLE.

I saw lot of situations like that, stuck in the middle with bad software solutions , it's frustrating no one can help them until they make serious inside changes.
From top to the bottom and vice versa.

They can learn lot of things from CCPs Eve Online.