Top 3

thay8472

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9062663

Thoughts?

thegreendragoon1

Potentionally good. It seems like it has the potential to break up the more static Top 50 list. I also think this has the potential to get the Foundry in front of a lot more people which is better for everyone.

djxprime

I am a bit excited to see this happen. I wonder how they are able to determine what the Top 3 missions for each system/door would be. Do they have some form of metrics to see what is accessed at each door?

eltatus

Top 3 missions are going to be more popular than ever, the rest is going to be more ignored than ever.

This fix nothing, but brakes more.

tehbubbaloo

Missions from the Foundry Top 3 can be used to complete the requirements of “Investigate Author Reports (Repeatable)” which offers 960 Raw Dilithium Ore upon completion and has a 30-minute cooldown. “Investigate Officer Reports (Repeatable)” can be found in the Available tab of the Journal.

is there a new mission or is that a typo? and isnt investigate a daily? is it being changed to a 30 minute cd for real?

thegreendragoon1

eltatus wrote: »

Top 3 missions are going to be more popular than ever, the rest is going to be more ignored than ever.

This fix nothing, but brakes more.

The three missions shown will be changed every few hours so it won't be the same missions. I will say that calling it "Top 3 is probably a little misleading as it implies the top 3 rated missions.

tehbubbaloo wrote: »

is there a new mission or is that a typo? and isnt investigate a daily? is it being changed to a 30 minute cd for real?

No, it's been a 30-min repeatable mission for some time now.

paxfederatica

This is a very good start. I do have a few concerns, though:

• For now at least, it only supports doors in sector space, not on social ground maps. That leaves out a lot of missions that start at the various factions' home systems (ESD, Qo'noS, New Romulus), none of which have sector-space doors, not to mention places like Drozana, DS9 and Hathon.
• This, in turn, further underscores the need for sector-space doors not only at the aforementioned locations, but throughout Tau Dewa Sector Block and the Delta Quadrant.
• Even with the three missions changed up every few hours, if the "playlists" are purely randomized that means we're still going to end up with a lot of farming missions, loot/accolade grinders, and middle-missions of series in the mix. If/when we get campaign support and a separate queue for campaign missions, that could alleviate the middle-mission problem, but we still need a way to keep the farm/grind missions from crowding out story-based content. (A tag-based filter, perhaps?)

janus1975

This is a good step in terms of introducing more missions, and some of the Foundry missions are outstanding. This benefits players who wouldn't ordinarily look or know about Foundry to "give it a go", and could (depending on how it works) make it easier to be introduced to missions that might not be easy to find otherwise, such as older highly-rated missions.

However, it needs to be balanced against having it easier to find missions that are newer, or haven't yet been played by many people despite having been around for a little while, which can be tricky sometimes. Otherwise, I'm cautiously optimistic.

odyssey47

paxfederatica wrote: »

This is a very good start. I do have a few concerns, though:

• For now at least, it only supports doors in sector space, not on social ground maps. That leaves out a lot of missions that start at the various factions' home systems (ESD, Qo'noS, New Romulus), none of which have sector-space doors, not to mention places like Drozana, DS9 and Hathon.
• This, in turn, further underscores the need for sector-space doors not only at the aforementioned locations, but throughout Tau Dewa Sector Block and the Delta Quadrant.
• Even with the three missions changed up every few hours, if the "playlists" are purely randomized that means we're still going to end up with a lot of farming missions, loot/accolade grinders, and middle-missions of series in the mix. If/when we get campaign support and a separate queue for campaign missions, that could alleviate the middle-mission problem, but we still need a way to keep the farm/grind missions from crowding out story-based content. (A tag-based filter, perhaps?)

Most grinder missions start at earth and qonos.

drogyn1701

paxfederatica wrote: »

This is a very good start. I do have a few concerns, though:

• For now at least, it only supports doors in sector space, not on social ground maps. That leaves out a lot of missions that start at the various factions' home systems (ESD, Qo'noS, New Romulus), none of which have sector-space doors, not to mention places like Drozana, DS9 and Hathon.
• This, in turn, further underscores the need for sector-space doors not only at the aforementioned locations, but throughout Tau Dewa Sector Block and the Delta Quadrant.
• Even with the three missions changed up every few hours, if the "playlists" are purely randomized that means we're still going to end up with a lot of farming missions, loot/accolade grinders, and middle-missions of series in the mix. If/when we get campaign support and a separate queue for campaign missions, that could alleviate the middle-mission problem, but we still need a way to keep the farm/grind missions from crowding out story-based content. (A tag-based filter, perhaps?)

I foresee some issues with expanding this beyond sector space. Until you pick up a mission that starts at an interact object, that object is not activated. If you put this system in, suddenly a dozen objects and doors around ESD are glowing and everyone's like WTF?

Now, as an alternative, you could put a "Town Crier" in each social hub who gives you a random selection of the top missions that start somewhere in that hub.

As for doors, we definitely need some expansion there. Personally I think they shouldn't hook up the main social hubs that have doors inside them. That's just my opinion.

I've asked Salami Inferno on reddit about the grinder/exploit missions showing up, we'll see if i get a response.

janus1975

drogyn1701 wrote: »

... Now, as an alternative, you could put a "Town Crier" in each social hub who gives you a random selection of the top missions that start somewhere in that hub...

I really like this idea... this could expand on the "click an NPC" easter egg we already have, if sometimes you click on one and get a Foundry mission offer (specially if it pays out bonus XP! *hint*).

captainhunter1

thay8472 wrote: »

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9062663

Thoughts?

See my thoughts on Page 6 of that thread.

drogyn1701

I don't think this solves all the issues Cap, as you know I'm a big supporter of your proposed search revamp, but I think this is a beneficial thing, and if it is successful, could lead to Cryptic putting more resources into the player-facing side of the Foundry.

thegreendragoon1

captainhunter1 wrote: »

See my thoughts on Page 6 of that thread.

captainhunter1 wrote: »

I agree.

It's wonderful to get some Foundry love, BUT...

We may be in the same bind the Foundry is currently stuck in with the 'TOP RATED' list.

My hope is that this is only the tip of the iceberg...and that the ideas presented in the thread promoted below get enacted too....

Otherwise new missions are going to be just as buried and lost as they are now.

(What's so wrong with opening up a page with a list of ALL missions that use a system as a starting point? (again, see link below). That way everyone's mission will at least be SEEN.)

The missions are changed every few hours so it won't be the same missions always getting plays.

thunderfoot

With a good selection process done by someone who has an active interest in getting this right, this could work very well. If, however the person(s) at Cryptic selecting the Foundry missions takes the path of least resistance and just goes through the list looking only for five star ratings, then the farming missions will continue to crowd out new missions and old favorites.

Which path do you think they'll take? lol

Frankly, I'm shocked at seeing the Dev team even acknowledge the existence of Foundry Missions. Let alone attempting to improve access to them in some fashion. I have a couple I started building months ago. Then I realized they'd just get buried under the farm-o-matics. Or someone looking for a one click wonder would post a nasty review and the trolls would pile on afterwards. So I had no reason at all to continue building them.

I think this a a beginning step in the right direction by cryptic. But as we've all seen before too many times, what they say they are going to do does not always match up with what they actually do. Plenty of time yet for them to crush hope before something resembling this makes to HoloDeck. And then plenty of time for it to be badly broken and ignored until the end of time.

I am not raging here. No point to it any more. But you can definitely color me a cynically suspicious skeptic.

Cryptic: "Hey Kids! We're all excited to announce - We're going to Do Something!"
Me: "Yeah. Riiiight."
Cryptic: "Well, we've almost finished the Whatever It Is. And you'll only need a bazillion Dilithium to access it!"
Me: "Only a bazillion? wow. what. a. deal. Figures."

***

Me: " Wait, what? What the... That's not supposed to happen that way. Dammit! More stuff in game which is broken! Like we don't have enough already."
Cryptic: "No no no. It's working. Really."
Me: "Nope. Still broken."
Cryptic: "Oh. Okay. It is broken. Well, we'll just slap a Known Issue tag on it and then we can forget about it. Go buy some Zen. Buying Zen make player happy. Player spending Real Monies on game make pwe/cryptic happy. Everyone happy, No Problems!"

zalandex

I think the idea is great.

And for the problem with the homeworld system... maybe Cryptic can hook the mechanic onto an NPC on ESD; New Romulus Command or at Qo'noS. Possibly the guys who hands out the "Tour of the Universe" Mission. They seem to get around a lot.

lindaleff

It looks to me like revamping patrols to give patrolling a purpose.

centurion47

I actually like the idea.

sifting through the giant list of foundry mission, searching for a description that peaks your interest can be somewhat frustrating.
Flying around sector space, and having 3 missions popup for you to choose from is way more convenient - and if none of the 3 missions you got don't "pull you in", you are just a short hop from the next system, with 3 more missions...

Looks to me this has great potential - it will definitely raise the foundry's "public profile".

As for the "farming grinders"/"admiral Bobo"s - From the blog I understood that only missions which qualify for foundry rewards - and therefore qualify for the "investigate officers report" quest - will show up on the top 3.
ASFAIK, the vast majority of the "farming grinders" do not qualify for either foundry rewards or the "investigate officers report"...

bcwhguderian1941

Any move that shines light on our Foundry can only be good. If this succeeds, who knows
what the DEV's may look to improve next?


BCW.

tehbubbaloo

10ec says the dil donation function will vanish in the upgrade.

captainhunter1

thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

The missions are changed every few hours so it won't be the same missions always getting plays.

Please don't take what I say next as negative, because I am really pleased that the Foundry is going to be a lot more visible.

However, random missions every few hours is like flying to Earth and finding ESD one time, Bajor city the next, First City the next, etc.

As Spock would say, it is illogical.

Why spend the time coding a Random Generator for missions when they could have just copied the mission list coding and used the door tag to open it? That way EVERY mission for that system would have popped up (from highest rated to lowest) when the mission button was clicked at that system. (with, of course, a 'Next 50 missions" button on the list so people can flip though as many pages as there are for that system).

Why not showcase the massive amount of content available instead of using the same 'Top Rated' system that has proven to bury many good missions into obscurity? Let the player decide which missions they want to play - not some RNG.

zorbane

captainhunter1 I think that's the point.

Instead of giving a player a huge list of missions they simply give 3 options to choose from. Much easier from a player's standpoint. At least this list will be continuously change unlike the "Top Rated"

lordmalak1

Yawn,
They get closer to forcing us to play UGC every day. Now they got a new system we can't ignore- forcing UGC content to display with normal game content. So much for it being 'optional', now they're not being buried deep within the menu system, they're rubbed in our faces everytime we open up a mission request window.

cryptic FAIL, but I should be used to it by now.

thegreendragoon1

captainhunter1 wrote: »

Please don't take what I say next as negative, because I am really pleased that the Foundry is going to be a lot more visible...

Not at all, I've just had several people confused by the blog post and think this means that only the top 3 rated missions will ever show.

As to having all missions for a location show, I think it would run into all the same problems the current Foundry list does. This shouldn't be thought of as a replacement for the Foundry search. It's focus isn't finding specific missions, but as a sot of "quick play." Kind of a, "I'm here, just give me a Foundry mission." sort of a setup.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the Foundry search needs an overhaul and I hope at some point it does. (Honestly, I think the entire mission journal could stand an overhaul.)

lordmalak1 wrote: »

Yawn,
They get closer to forcing us to play UGC every day. Now they got a new system we can't ignore- forcing UGC content to display with normal game content. So much for it being 'optional', now they're not being buried deep within the menu system, they're rubbed in our faces everytime we open up a mission request window.

cryptic FAIL, but I should be used to it by now.

I think it's great. CrypticWIN!

psiameese

This system is up for testing on Tribble.

I'm flying around each sector block to see if I can get a Foundry offering. I'm currently using my Lt. Cmdr. Not seeing anything. So swapping to my Admiral to see if anything pops in the same sector blocks I previously explored.

I curious as to what will show and under which circumstance? If the Top 3 missions are only designed for certain levels, obviously those too low won't see the offering. At least I think that is how it's supposed to work.

captainhunter1

The problem with randomly generated missions is what if you like a mission and want to play it again?

"I remember there was a really fun mission I played at Andoria, think I'll tell my friends about it."

Only to return to find it gone...

The average player is not going to know how to search for it in the Foundry - especially with the current UI. :P Are they going to keep coming back to Andoria in the hopes that it pops again? No. (Most people won't have a clue that a random mission generator is even in effect).

Again, why not have a list of all missions in that system come up and let the player decide? :P

crypticfrost

Let me see if I can provide some clarification.

First up: The Top 3 UI does NOT replace the regular Journal UI for the Foundry. All of that works as normal.

Second: This is not a random generator of missions. It draws on published Foundry missions. It does not make new ones.

Third: The current state of the Top 3 UI is what could be made to work within the available time frame. We want to try and expand the functionality, but this will take more time and effort.

Fourth: The way things work now is, when one approaches a System Door in a Sector map (for example, the Drozana System door in the Eta Eridani Sector Block map), if there are missions that use that door to enter the mission map as the first thing that happens (interacts with objects or contacts on the ground map, dialogs that pop before the map transfer, or anything else other than a move to a custom map from the System door will cause the mission to not appear in the Top 3 UI), and those missions are out of Review, and are Rated, then up to three of those will appear in a "Top Foundry Missions" UI at the bottom of the System info window. There is an arrow to collapse that list if you wish. The missions displayed in the UI are selected at random from those that qualify, and the selection refreshes at 20 minute intervals.

Yes, this is very limited at this point. We are aware of this and, as I stated above, hope to expand this functionality in the future. Doing so will be neither quick nor easy as I understand it.

This is not the final goal state for the Foundry, it's a single step forward.

drogyn1701

crypticfrost wrote: »

if there are missions that use that door to enter the mission map as the first thing that happens (interacts with objects or contacts on the ground map, dialogs that pop before the map transfer, or anything else other than a move to a custom map from the System door will cause the mission to not appear in the Top 3 UI)

Thanks for clarifying, however this is really, really bad. A vast, and I really mean vast, majority of Foundry missions, especially the very top rated missions this new UI option is supposed to highlight, have some kind of dialogue or objective before the entry door.

For example, every single one of my own Foundry missions would be excluded by this, including both my spotlight missions.

I can understand not seeing missions that have, for example, a talk to contact on ESD before entering a door somewhere out in space. But simply having a dialogue before the door excludes them too, and that is something that really needs to be changed if this tool is going to work as intended.

thegreendragoon1

crypticfrost wrote: »

...if there are missions that use that door to enter the mission map as the first thing that happens (interacts with objects or contacts on the ground map, dialogs that pop before the map transfer, or anything else other than a move to a custom map from the System door will cause the mission to not appear in the Top 3 UI), and those missions are out of Review, and are Rated, then up to three of those will appear in a "Top Foundry Missions" UI at the bottom of the System info window...

So this criteria here is likely to make the majority of Foundry missions ineligible. It's very common among Foundry missions to use a popup dialog to have an expanded initial contact. Additionally, because custom NPC costumes can't be loaded until after the mission is accepted, authors often use the grant mission dialog only as a bridge officer seaway to the actual contact.

"Captain, we're receiving an transmission from Admiral Not-A-Default-NPC."

crypticfrost

thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

So this criteria here is likely to make the majority of Foundry missions ineligible. It's very common among Foundry missions to use a popup dialog to have an expanded initial contact. Additionally, because custom NPC costumes can't be loaded until after the mission is accepted, authors often use the grant mission dialog only as a bridge officer seaway to the actual contact.

"Captain, we're receiving an transmission from Admiral Not-A-Default-NPC."

I understand, and I'll get this written up as one of the first things that need to be addressed.

drogyn1701

Thank you very much.

Also, publishing seems to be non-functional on Tribble. Tried two separate missions and both hung at 50% indefinitely.