Modding of STO

lingg

Homeless developer here!

Would Perfect World / STO be willing to 'open up/publish' TCP communications protocol and client information for customization and/or skinning and/or modding?

What I would like to 'build' / mod would be a more diverse assignment system and a way to interact with planets.

Yes, I know I could 'backwards engineer' this game leveraging tools like Wireshark to figure out TCP communications and console commands (here: http://sto.gamepedia.com/List_of_console_commands)

But truth be told. I don't want to disrespect development and your organization and prefer working with ya'all - especially in areas you don't currently seem to be paying much development attention to - the non combat gaming.

I'm homeless. And spending Christmas in a tent by himself eating a can of soup in North Hollywood. No friends. No family.

This is what a homeless dude wants to do for fun and would consider a cool Christmas present.

Pathetic, isn't it?

Not likely, I know, but I can always dream, right?

And again. I do NOT want to hack the console. I would like to 'work' along the current development course, collaborating ideas and directions.

Maybe I can do 'storyline' assignments on a real time basis similar to what's currently going on with the christmas line of assignments for 'in game' events.

Perhaps I could even 'tie it in' with real life and real world events?

just thoughts. I like the idea of experimenting with non combat assignment and missions.

and again. I am running an atom processor and 1ghz of ram, clearly a machine that's undertasked for what I would like to do. But I'm broke. Without money. My other laptop with 4gig of ram and an ati graphics card - the screen cracked when I closed a headset in it accidentally in my tent one night. I am making due with what I got.

30 years IT and programming experience.

Let me know.

And please. No flames. I've been kicked enough, and am really tired of being insulted for being who I am and thinking the way I do. I'm homeless partially because I just dont care anymore. Sad, right?

anazonda

Last person who modded STO was bullied out of the game...

And no... I fully understand the whole "been kicked enough" part...

daveyny

First...I wish you a very Merry Holiday Season, you've obviously got more troubles than I could ever dream of and I sincerely hope things improve for you ASAP.

As for your request, I don't think They are willing to let others fiddle with Their 'toys'.
Several folks have asked through the years of the game and They haven't been willing to allow this.
There was a wonderful player back in the beginning that created some wonderful mods, but as said above, he was pretty much driven away and told to desist by Cryptic.

I don't really understand Their thinking as many in the player-base could do so much to improve aspects of the game beyond increasing DPs.

Also, may the new year find you in a much better place, it's not much but my prayers are with you.

Unknown

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lingg

anazonda wrote: »

Last person who modded STO was bullied out of the game...

And no... I fully understand the whole "been kicked enough" part...

Yeah, I have had that feeling by my attempts to provide feedback on any thread on these forums. It seems like any attempts to provide feedback and design that 'do not align with the fight fight fight mentality' is dealt with by an attack.

I spent about 20 years in Corporate America development where design and development was a collaborative / kaizen like experience - leveraging something called SCRUM/Agile methodologies, and iterative design working in teams.

I suppose game development, particularly for combat oriented games, adopts a different and - for me at least - more toxic mindset.

It's a pity. With STO's user base and design thus far, it has such amazing concepts I wish I could contribute my experience to mature it for 'us' old geezers who ain't as keen with a fight, ya know?

lingg

skollulfr wrote: »

oh how i wish sto could be modded.
at least to the extent WG allows.
maybe then would could get a GUI that worked, without input lag, and didnt cost 30fps.

its not like mods can proved any kind of game breaking advantage to the extent cryptic built into the game already.

I was looking at Grand Theft Auto IV, which is absolutely snappy with it's graphics. And thought - how cool would it be to have some planet exploration interacting with an instanced based design that leverages Grand Theft Auto's graphic engine?

With SO many planets that you can only briefly interact with, that have dynamically generated terrain, it would be pretty cool to have a city you could visit to explore, meet locals, intermingle, and maybe 'buy a home', ya know?

lingg

skollulfr wrote: »

oh how i wish sto could be modded.
at least to the extent WG allows.
maybe then would could get a GUI that worked, without input lag, and didnt cost 30fps.

its not like mods can proved any kind of game breaking advantage to the extent cryptic built into the game already with unbalanced clicking and ships.

though frankly, every time a thread like this comes up, someone links the cryptic vacancies page, so here it is.
http://www.crypticstudios.com/openings
maybe it has something you can apply for.

This is going to sound weird, but where I am at, I do not seem to be 'allowed' to apply for jobs. So linking to job pages is an exercise in futility.

I have come to understand being homeless is more than simply a transitory state of being. I've come to learn the reality of multiple realities and the deafness my voice has on ears when I attempt to explain my position and problems.

daveyny

lingg wrote: »

I was looking at Grand Theft Auto IIV, which is absolutely snappy with it's graphics. And thought - how cool would it be to have some planet exploration interacting with an instanced based design that leverages Grand Theft Auto's graphic engine?

With SO many planets that you can only briefly interact with, that have dynamically generated terrain, it would be pretty cool to have a city you could visit to explore, meet locals, intermingle, and maybe 'buy a home', ya know?

I'd kiil the child I don't have, to be able to do this in STO.
Or even have ship interiors that can be use in such a manner.

anazonda

Oh I did not mean the players tried to bully him out...

Cryptic did...

I think they had a hard time dealing with someone who managed to remove the astrometrics before they could, or create a beliveable First-person mode ahead of them... Without access to any API's or base resources.

Cryptic dosen't like to look bad...

daveyny

anazonda wrote: »

Oh I did not mean the players tried to bully him out...

Cryptic did...

I think they had a hard time dealing with someone who managed to remove the astrometrics before they could, or create a beliveable First-person mode ahead of them... Without access to any API's or base resources.

Cryptic dosen't like to look bad...

...and create Faction based UI colors TWO YEARS before They did...
As well as a Larger Cursor and several UI improvements They haven't even considered yet.

lingg

daveyny wrote: »

First...I wish you a very Merry Holiday Season, you've obviously got more troubles than I could ever dream of and I sincerely hope things improve for you ASAP.

As for your request, I don't think They are willing to let others fiddle with Their 'toys'.
Several folks have asked through the years of the game and They haven't been willing to allow this.
There was a wonderful player back in the beginning that created some wonderful mods, but as said above, he was pretty much driven away and told to desist by Cryptic.

I don't really understand Their thinking as many in the player-base could do so much to improve aspects of the game beyond increasing DPs.

Also, may the new year find you in a much better place, it's not much but my prayers are with you.

Dave - I think there's enough user base out there that would actually dig user mods, as I am already seein by the responses to this thread. Maybe the better thing to 'think' of is - understanding that we - collectively - can influence design - and rather than thinking past history will repeat itself, focus instead on SUPPORTING these ideas by *BUMPING* The thread to bring it to their attention, ya know?

Here's what I am saying. Your logic and rationality is justifying their current mode of operation. Accordingly, they do not deviate their operations'. You've, after all, already justified inaction by them, right?

But rather than do that, why NOT add to the feedback and ideas? MAYBE this could turn into a snowball and you might provide something this homeless dude wouldn't mind doing as he's in limbo - as I hang out at Starbuck's creating custom content for those who might want it?

Assignments would be my start. And if I got a new computer. Well then. You bet yer butt I'd be learning graphics and game programming. Coming from the 2d corporate spreadsheet world - this is all new to me, but what the heck else am i gonna do with my copious spare time?

Give me a 'virtual job' - PLEASE - and quit saying they wont change because I think they have it in them to want a weird guy like me who loves star trek and sci fi designing custom sci fi oriented content. THIS, after all, can help THEIR sales, ya know?

From a markeitng perspective, you can't beat free labor!

Unknown

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markhawkman

I'm pretty sure that this is one of those games where modding is a TOS violation.... Sure, some games don't enforce that, but this one seems to. And for good reason considering the nature of some of STO's mods....

lingg

daveyny wrote: »

...and create Faction based UI colors TWO YEARS before They did...
As well as a Larger Cursor and several UI improvements They haven't even considered yet.

You both lead me to believe Cryptic might be better served to let people custom design their own content and they merely manage the rules and interactions with the core engine, ya know?

I mean. It's clear I am NOT the only one who enjoys the concepts of this game, right?

Another idea I had was a more robust modeled starship, leveraging - again - engines like GTAIV or something like Blender or OpenGL programming in C#.

It would be an absolutley HUGE learning experience for me. And I am HOPING someone might find it in their heart to donate a computer for this and maybe a garage in southern california to sleep in!

but it is what it is. Maybe they simply don't know what they got?

sicktonasty

lingg wrote: »

Homeless developer here!

Would Perfect World / STO be willing to 'open up/publish' TCP communications protocol and client information for customization and/or skinning and/or modding?

What I would like to 'build' / mod would be a more diverse assignment system and a way to interact with planets.

Yes, I know I could 'backwards engineer' this game leveraging tools like Wireshark to figure out TCP communications and console commands (here: http://sto.gamepedia.com/List_of_console_commands)

But truth be told. I don't want to disrespect development and your organization and prefer working with ya'all - especially in areas you don't currently seem to be paying much development attention to - the non combat gaming.

I'm homeless. And spending Christmas in a tent by himself eating a can of soup in North Hollywood. No friends. No family.

This is what a homeless dude wants to do for fun and would consider a cool Christmas present.

Pathetic, isn't it?

Not likely, I know, but I can always dream, right?

And again. I do NOT want to hack the console. I would like to 'work' along the current development course, collaborating ideas and directions.

Maybe I can do 'storyline' assignments on a real time basis similar to what's currently going on with the christmas line of assignments for 'in game' events.

Perhaps I could even 'tie it in' with real life and real world events?

just thoughts. I like the idea of experimenting with non combat assignment and missions.

and again. I am running an atom processor and 1ghz of ram, clearly a machine that's undertasked for what I would like to do. But I'm broke. Without money. My other laptop with 4gig of ram and an ati graphics card - the screen cracked when I closed a headset in it accidentally in my tent one night. I am making due with what I got.

30 years IT and programming experience.

Let me know.

And please. No flames. I've been kicked enough, and am really tired of being insulted for being who I am and thinking the way I do. I'm homeless partially because I just dont care anymore. Sad, right?

Saving this for later.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

admrenlarreck

Last time someone made this offer (he even said he would do the work for free) they were told to apply for a job at Cryptic, and that Cryptic does not work with independent developers.

As for modding, this topic will be closed as its considered a breach of TOS or something.

anazonda

admrenlarreck wrote: »

As for modding, this topic will be closed as its considered a breach of TOS or something.

I doubt that...

Modding threads that have been closed are usually detailing some ways to datamine the hogg's or similar TOS-Violating stuff...

Since this is a request for it, and not a "how to" manual, no sane mod could see it as a TOS violation.

lingg

markhawkman wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that this is one of those games where modding is a TOS violation.... Sure, some games don't enforce that, but this one seems to. And for good reason considering the nature of some of STO's mods....

Mark, you sound like an ignorant policewoman(or man) who does not understand that rules and laws are something malleable based on an ever changing legal and ethical structure as a society evolves.

YES, it may indeed violate rules which were originally written.

But do those rules HAVE to remain in place if the user community changes? Does the game want to continue, and if so, it may want to 'evolve' based on new information and ideas from a growing and different user demographics (us older dudes)?

Quit saying it can't be done and help me find reasons it can.

daveyny

lingg wrote: »

Dave - I think there's enough user base out there that would actually dig user mods, as I am already seein by the responses to this thread. Maybe the better thing to 'think' of is - understanding that we - collectively - can influence design - and rather than thinking past history will repeat itself, focus instead on SUPPORTING these ideas by *BUMPING* The thread to bring it to their attention, ya know?

Here's what I am saying. Your logic and rationality is justifying their current mode of operation. Accordingly, they do not deviate their operations'. You've, after all, already justified inaction by them, right?

But rather than do that, why NOT add to the feedback and ideas? MAYBE this could turn into a snowball and you might provide something this homeless dude wouldn't mind doing as he's in limbo - as I hang out at Starbuck's creating custom content for those who might want it?

Assignments would be my start. And if I got a new computer. Well then. You bet yer butt I'd be learning graphics and game programming. Coming from the 2d corporate spreadsheet world - this is all new to me, but what the heck else am i gonna do with my copious spare time?

Give me a 'virtual job' - PLEASE - and quit saying they wont change because I think they have it in them to want a weird guy like me who loves star trek and sci fi designing custom sci fi oriented content. THIS, after all, can help THEIR sales, ya know?

From a markeitng perspective, you can't beat free labor!

I agree whole heartedly...

I just realize from 5 years of forum discussing and playing this game that Cryptic has from the outset, made it perfectly clear that mod's of this game will not be tolerated.

That's not to say there aren't any out there, denying that fact is just silly and ostrich-like on Their part.
But doing so and/or even getting caught using any, is a Bann-able Offense as far as They are concerned.
In the past even discussing mods was a Thread Deleting offense.

So while I concur with your sentiment's, it's glaringly clear that They see things differently than folks like us.

BTW: if I weren't on the Atlantic-side of this continent, I'd gladly give you my old PC.

lingg

daveyny wrote: »

I agree whole heartedly...

I just realize from 5 years of forum discussing and playing this game that Cryptic has from the outset, made it perfectly clear that mod's of this game will not be tolerated.

That's not to say there aren't any out there, denying that fact is just silly and ostrich-like on Their part.
But doing so and/or even getting caught using any, is a Bann-able Offense as far as They are concerned.
In the past even discussing mods was a Thread Deleting offense.

So while I concur with your sentiment's, it's glaringly clear that They see things differently than folks like us.

Have you considered their reluctance to change is nothing more than a reflection of your doubt they will change?

Energy's weird like that sometimes.

The simple fact is clear: Others in the past confronted STO and/or Perfect World. That's the wrong way to go, clearly. Applying for jobs isn't working for me. So I figure why not treat this like the quasi Utopia I want it to be and apply my efforts in areas and activities that sincerely interest me - creating and exploring.

STO modding offers this potential. I as a homeless guy am really technically in a magnificent (yet sucky) position to start 'walking the walk' of the quasi-Utopia that Star Trek presents.

And for those 'long potential voyages' between stars or space traveling. You bet yer butt you'd need something 'like this' to entertain ourselves with. Because one can only shoot so many bad guys on the holodeck before wanting something mentally engaging for content.

My belief is that you as a user within this community HAVE to not just want a mod and customized content - but you need to reprogram your own mind to believe that this may be the perfect means to warrant readjusting your mindset 'doubting they can change'.

Because doubting they can change is also like doubting that you are capable of change too.


Just saying...

daveyny

I get the gist of what you're saying.
I guess I'm just too conditioned by past experiences with this developer, to expect that large of a change in their mind-set.

Also..,
Seeing the increased number of recent changes in their staffing, suggests to me that independent thought about the direction this game is going, is not a quality They are seeking in Their employees....

And is the best indicator of how They will react toward your request.

It's not that I don't want things to change, it's that They aren't exactly giving off signals that would indicate an openness toward this kind of thought process.

But by all means, please continue your efforts, I certainly won't do anything to discourage you further.

lingg

daveyny wrote: »

I get the gist of what you're saying.
I guess I'm just too conditioned by past experiences with this developer, to expect that large of a change in their mind-set.

Also..,
Seeing the increased number of recent changes in their staffing, suggests to me that independent thought about the direction this game is going, is not a quality They are seeking in Their employees....

And is the best indicator of how They will react toward your request.

It's not that I don't want things to change, it's that They aren't exactly giving off signals that would indicate and openness toward this kind of thought process.

But by all means, please continue your efforts, I certainly won't do anything to discourage you further.

I have your support. That's what matters.

And Independent thought may not be what they want WITHIN their organization/community, which makes sense why I wouldn't be hired, which is why this may be the PERFECT compliment to their efforts. I'm an outlier providing content for my own 'community' if you will, and one they do not have to call one of their own...

Win/win if you ask me.

Oh. and be careful about the predictions of failure.

Self fulfilling prophecies and beliefs have a wonderful tendency to create unexpected bias and focus which creates psychological skew for 'objective' statistics, probabilities, and the scientific process.

admrenlarreck

anazonda wrote: »

I doubt that...

Modding threads that have been closed are usually detailing some ways to datamine the hogg's or similar TOS-Violating stuff...

Since this is a request for it, and not a "how to" manual, no sane mod could see it as a TOS violation.

Sane? We are dealing with Cryptic/PWE here.

anazonda

admrenlarreck wrote: »

Sane? We are dealing with Cryptic/PWE here.

No... We are dealing with volunteer moderators who have said they wanted to do something extra for the community...

Askray, Bluegeek and that "new guy"... They are all players with the permission to moderate, and not employed by PWE...

nicha0

The last people to post mods in the game, I believe it was an active dps meter, was strictly banned and had the post removed. Doing something major.. its not going to happen, they don't want it unless you can put it in their lockbox.

meimeitoo

@OP: No offense or flame intended, but if you're homeless, don't you think you have higher priorities than wanting to hack the game?! (Yes, modding = hacking, and specifically verboten in the EULA).

starkaos

Cryptic and PWE are not going to give up control of their game. If you want to change the game, then you have to become a corporate cog in the machine. If you want to express your need to create, then there is Indie games and other games that support modding like Bridge Commander are better choices than battling this windmill.

lingg

daveyny wrote: »

I get the gist of what you're saying.
I guess I'm just too conditioned by past experiences with this developer, to expect that large of a change in their mind-set.

Also..,
Seeing the increased number of recent changes in their staffing, suggests to me that independent thought about the direction this game is going, is not a quality They are seeking in Their employees....

And is the best indicator of how They will react toward your request.

It's not that I don't want things to change, it's that They aren't exactly giving off signals that would indicate an openness toward this kind of thought process.

But by all means, please continue your efforts, I certainly won't do anything to discourage you further.

One last note, Dave - Star Trek consistently broaches the subject of alternate realities, and timelines, right?

Where do you think they 'got their start'? Why not take the same mentality with this, support programmers and an eager (and potentially bored) development community - creating 'spin off realities', preserving the integrity of the 'baseline' linear reality (STO Core), while at the same time promoting and supporting 'branching' in a nonlinear sense.

The 'linear' timeline can integrate thoughts and ideas and maybe 'recruit' mod makers and community members, similar to what happened with Worlds of ******** only a little less open, and not only develop richer content for the linear game, but diversify the options for 'the branches'.

I don't intend on 'changing' the core modus operandi'. In fact I respect it's a potentially necessary part of the ecosystem. However, this is not to say that there can't be reciprocative benefit for those who don't have the same motivations yet enjoy the core setting.

Saying: I'd rather not compete with STO by creating my own MMORPG, and would rather collaborate. Similar to a business 'partnership', only I'm an individual.

mustrumridcully0

I guess the reason they frown upon this is simply because it means people could use this to actively hack the game You use the defined interfaces (like the combat log, screenshot or the XMPP capabilities of their chat system) or you stay away.

And since people speak of GTA - anyone remember the hot coffee mod? The devs of that game got into trouble for something they had deliberately deactivated but someone has modded back into the game! That's how silly this can be.

And Cryptic doesn't provide new, "safe" interfaces for such mods because they don't have the resources for that. They don't need it for themselves, and it would cost development time they could spend on other, more important stuff.

stf65

I'd think all these business gurus seeming to post in this thread would be smart enough to know that cryptic doesn't own the ip and that cbs is very protective of it. If cbs won't let a connie into the game what makes you think they're going to allow outsiders to mod one in? What makes anyone think they're going to allow modders to make designed owned by other artists and just throw them into the game? It took em like 2 years to work on the license for the vesta. You think Mark, or a dozen of other professional ship designers, won't sue the moment one of their designs show up in the game just because a modder made it? You think cbs wants 3rd party suits from this?