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Did Nemesis throw off the pattern?

tiro100tiro100 Member Posts: 73 Arc User
edited December 2014 in Ten Forward
A pattern that I have heard several people mention in the past, and one that I noticed myself, is that with the Star Trek movies, the even numbered movies tend to be great, the odd numbered tend to be not so great. While I don't think every odd numbered movie is bad, they do tend to be a little lackluster in certain areas. Up to a certain point. This is how I view the movies. (skip the list if you don't care)

Star Trek (I): The Motion Picture - Probably my least favorite Star Trek movie. The director's cut at least makes it watchable, but I don't think I'll ever watch it on my own again.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan - As far as I'm concerned, this is the first Star Trek movie.
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock - I didn't dislike it, but it wasn't by any means great. There were some parts that I did love though.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Probably my favorite of the TOS movies.
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - The only movie I disliked more than this was TMP.
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - Really fun movie. Loved it.
Star Trek (VII): Generations - Probably my most liked of the odd movies. Wasn't as great as the even ones, but still loved it.
Star Trek (VIII): First Contact - Favorite Star Trek movie, hands down.
Star Trek (IX): Insurrection - I don't remember disliking this movie, but the last time I saw it I was a teenager. The consensus I have heard though, is that it's not great.

The pattern was pretty consistent it would seem, until the next one.

Star Trek (X): Nemesis - Wasn't the worst Star Trek movie, but it didn't feel like an even one to me.


At the time it just felt like a fluke, like it should have been great, but something was throwing me off about it. Then fast forward to 2009 and we have:

Star Trek (XI) - Has some faults, but I don't have any negative feelings whatsoever towards this one in particular. In my opinion, this was a pretty successful reboot.

However, if anything from the JJverse is leaving a bad taste in my mouth, it's:

Star Trek (XII) Into Darkness - When I saw it in theaters I thought it was good, but the more I contemplated it afterwards the faults of the movie became clearer and clearer. By this time, I don't have much nice to say about this movie.

So what happened to the pattern? Did Nemesis just blow it up? Are the movies from this point going to be reversed? Even is bad, odd is good? Does this mean we can really look forward to XIII? What are your thoughts on this?
Post edited by tiro100 on
Playing STO on and off since January 2nd, 2011!
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Comments

  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    That it's all BS, and it's just coincidences that the even were good, because I actually liked Search for Spock, I like having a little darkness in Trek, compared to the Jokes that would come later in Voyage home, and the stupidity that V, and VI had.


    Oh hey guys, we want a comedic scene with Uhura, and crew (who you would think know how to speak Klingon) have them use books to talk their way past the border, that would be real funny. That scene always bugged me, and I was 9 when I saw it
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  • giveroffacialsgiveroffacials Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The new star trek and the old are horses of a different color so you really have to just restart.

    Personally I've watched all of the movies several times each, and I like both of the new movies. There are things that bug me, like the enterprise engine room being a dairy with radiation symbols painted on tanks. or the horrible inconsistency with speeds and times and basic physical laws, as evidenced by gravity capturing a ship 200,000 miles out and pulling it to earth in five minutes.
    Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
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  • tiro100tiro100 Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I didn't think Search for Spock was the greatest, but don't get me wrong, I still liked it. I also appreciate it for being part of the only arcing story in the movies. (2-3-4)
    Playing STO on and off since January 2nd, 2011!
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The new star trek and the old are horses of a different color so you really have to just restart.

    Personally I've watched all of the movies several times each, and I like both of the new movies. There are things that bug me, like the enterprise engine room being a dairy with radiation symbols painted on tanks. or the horrible inconsistency with speeds and times and basic physical laws, as evidenced by gravity capturing a ship 200,000 miles out and pulling it to earth in five minutes.

    Yeah, I hate that, reminds me of the time in Generations where a missile took out the sun in less than 10 seconds, and the wave reached the planet in 1 minute.. When it should have been logner, a lot longer for all that to happen....but a movie is only 2 hours soooo yeah.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • tiro100tiro100 Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Yeah, I hate that, reminds me of the time in Generations where a missile took out the sun in less than 10 seconds, and the wave reached the planet in 1 minute.. When it should have been logner, a lot longer for all that to happen....but a movie is only 2 hours soooo yeah.

    That scene was drawn out as it was, so I'm actually glad they didn't make it drag on longer. But you are right.
    Playing STO on and off since January 2nd, 2011!
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    1. Slow-motion picture: Bad. Just...boring.
    2. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pure awesomeness.
    3. Well, this one was pretty clearly a cash grab, and it was cheesy and bad science-y as heck, but in its defense Kruge was awesome and the Ham-To-Ham Combat was so powerful it destroyed a planet. IMHO, the only good odd-numbered Trek movie.
    4. Save the whales! Definitely a good one.
    5. This one does not exist.
    6. Undiscovered Country. God, this was awesome. Chang and his Klingon awesomeness, the science made a lot of sense, the plot, Valeris...awesome. Plus, Sulu gets his own ship! And Worf plays his grandfather!
    7. You do NOT kill Captain Kirk with a f*cking bridge! On top of that, the plot runs almost entirely on writer fiat. Has some good points but is still terrible.
    8. Hell yes I'll let that Borg Queen assimilate me, as long as I get some of her. Picard's an idiot to turn that liquid charisma down. Frakes shows that he's a capable and talented director, he gives Riker a few special moments but never at the expense of anyone else (Geordi, Crusher, and Troi all get theirs, Worf gets pure badassdom, Picard and Data are the real stars, even Helmsman Obvious Redshirt gets a few touches to seal it off). Definitely good.
    9. Insurrection. My favorite guilty pleasure. It stinks, but it's got an amusing villain. And Picard gets to do some really awesome stuff.
    10. Nemesis. Sweet Romulan uniforms, I would totally do Donatra, but horrible science, a worse plot, and a generally incompetent job by the Great Satan--I mean, Berman and Braga--outweighs Trek's best space battle and coolest ship to make this a bad one.
    11. JJTrek 1. Nero sits on his f*cking rear for TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AND DOES JACK SH*T. On top of that, JJ's an arrogant weasel, LENS FLARES at really, really bad times, and wooden acting from Kirk combine with really terrible excuses to get the TOS crew into their destined positions at a stupidly young age invariably drive me up the wall.

    At least it explains why Kirk's so badass. His parents are literally Emma Swan and Thor.
    12. OK, I'm going to come right out and say that I loved CumberKhan in this. The whitewashing was annoying but the actor was so hilariously better than the entire rest of the cast put together it's barely funny.

    But the thing has plot holes that make Cryptic's worst omissions look like typos.

    SO yeah, terribad.

    Final verdict: Every odd-numbered Trek film except 3 is Bad. Every even trek but 10 and 12 is good.
  • tiro100tiro100 Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    1. Slow-motion picture: Bad. Just...boring.
    2. KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pure awesomeness.
    3. Well, this one was pretty clearly a cash grab, and it was cheesy and bad science-y as heck, but in its defense Kruge was awesome and the Ham-To-Ham Combat was so powerful it destroyed a planet. IMHO, the only good odd-numbered Trek movie.
    4. Save the whales! Definitely a good one.
    5. This one does not exist.
    6. Undiscovered Country. God, this was awesome. Chang and his Klingon awesomeness, the science made a lot of sense, the plot, Valeris...awesome. Plus, Sulu gets his own ship! And Worf plays his grandfather!
    7. You do NOT kill Captain Kirk with a f*cking bridge! On top of that, the plot runs almost entirely on writer fiat. Has some good points but is still terrible.
    8. Hell yes I'll let that Borg Queen assimilate me, as long as I get some of her. Picard's an idiot to turn that liquid charisma down. Frakes shows that he's a capable and talented director, he gives Riker a few special moments but never at the expense of anyone else (Geordi, Crusher, and Troi all get theirs, Worf gets pure badassdom, Picard and Data are the real stars, even Helmsman Obvious Redshirt gets a few touches to seal it off). Definitely good.
    9. Insurrection. My favorite guilty pleasure. It stinks, but it's got an amusing villain. And Picard gets to do some really awesome stuff.
    10. Nemesis. Sweet Romulan uniforms, I would totally do Donatra, but horrible science, a worse plot, and a generally incompetent job by the Great Satan--I mean, Berman and Braga--outweighs Trek's best space battle and coolest ship to make this a bad one.
    11. JJTrek 1. Nero sits on his f*cking rear for TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AND DOES JACK SH*T. On top of that, JJ's an arrogant weasel, LENS FLARES at really, really bad times, and wooden acting from Kirk combine with really terrible excuses to get the TOS crew into their destined positions at a stupidly young age invariably drive me up the wall.

    At least it explains why Kirk's so badass. His parents are literally Emma Swan and Thor.
    12. OK, I'm going to come right out and say that I loved CumberKhan in this. The whitewashing was annoying but the actor was so hilariously better than the entire rest of the cast put together it's barely funny.

    But the thing has plot holes that make Cryptic's worst omissions look like typos.

    SO yeah, terribad.

    Final verdict: Every odd-numbered Trek film except 3 is Bad. Every even trek but 10 and 12 is good.

    You forgot to mention that none of these movies feature Ba'al. So all in all, the entire franchise is bad. :P
    Playing STO on and off since January 2nd, 2011!
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    tiro100 wrote: »
    You forgot to mention that none of these movies feature Ba'al. So all in all, the entire franchise is bad. :P

    Hey, Continuum was terrible and it had Ba'al. And Window of Opportunity was pure hilarious awesome and it didn't have Ba'al.

    Supreme System Lord Ba'al is our Lord and Sovereign, may He live forever, praise His mighty name, but His glorious presence or regretted absence from a movie does not determine its success.

    Hail Ba'al!

    {This comment constitutes a statement by the Glorious Grand Vizier worffan101 in his official capacity, and so is fully endorsed by the Glorious Regime of Sovereign Ba'al (tm). Hail Ba'al!}
  • tiro100tiro100 Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Hey, Continuum was terrible and it had Ba'al. And Window of Opportunity was pure hilarious awesome and it didn't have Ba'al.

    Supreme System Lord Ba'al is our Lord and Sovereign, may He live forever, praise His mighty name, but His glorious presence or regretted absence from a movie does not determine its success.

    Hail Ba'al!

    {This comment constitutes a statement by the Glorious Grand Vizier worffan101 in his official capacity, and so is fully endorsed by the Glorious Regime of Sovereign Ba'al (tm). Hail Ba'al!}

    Perhaps then Ba'al being in Into Darkness might have made the movie so terrible, it would loop back to the top and be amazing. Kind of like Ghandi going nuclear ballistic in Civilization.
    Playing STO on and off since January 2nd, 2011!
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Well if you want to apply to the 'even good, odd bad' school of thought, you all need to consider the 'other' Star Trek film (I don't mean fan-made stuff):

    Galaxy Quest

    After all, that bumps Nemesis out of the number 10 spot and into 11 (thus being bad). :P

    Since we are talking about how we feel about the movies, here's my quick thought on all of em:

    1. Oh my god it's so boring! Even with how reviled some might feel about the other movies, at least stuff HAPPENS!!!! in those. This is just so dull. Though I'd also say that is also the worst feature, some of the rest isn't too terrible (even looking back)

    2. WoK, a classic, though not my personal favorite.

    3. Kruge is enjoyable, and helps to start shape the more 'modern' Klingons, while the story has some issues, I think it's not too bad, and does significantly shape how Kirk himself views things for quite awhile.

    4. Save the whales...so they can be immediately die again due to a lack of genetic diversity to sustain the species. But is at least really quotable.

    5. Shatner's fanfic about Kirk, and while I dislike it, at least some of the concepts aren't too bad IMO, just REALLY badly executed.

    6. My personal favorite of all the movies

    7. Looking at it...doesn't hold up as well as I thought in my younger days.

    8. First Contact, and a great bit of character for Picard, though it does unfortunately start the trend of the Borg Queen...which got used in Voyager...and by extension, STO

    9. Of all the films, this is my least favorite. Nuff said.

    10. Nemesis...honestly, aside from Shinzon being an idiot for dinking around so much...it's...ok, and it looks good (IMO). Data dying was a cheap end for him though.

    JJ 1 I have mixed feelings, generally a bit more positive, but I'd put it towards the rough middle of how much I like it.

    JJ 2 I'd put Into Darkness over the first JJ film because of the villains. I don't like that they mixed stories by using both Khan and Admiral Robocop, at least they are good villains compared to emo-Nero so I give it more points as such.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
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  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I rate Search for Spock over Wrath of Khan, but maybe that's because of the Vulcan maidens at the end... :o Voyage Home follows on nicely, and has one of my favorite Kirk lines "I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space..." Final Frontier... such a mixed bag... I want to hate it, mostly due to the camping scenes and the embarassment of Uhura's Dance of the seven veils, but Sybok is too amazing a character... For such a revelation about Spock's family to be revealed so far into the series, I can see why Human viewers may find it implausible, but if one were to apply the Vulcan mindset, it's perfectly logical that neither Sarek nor Spock would openly speak of him... I think a slightly different beginning and end (ie not the camping scenes) and it could've been entirely solid. Undiscovered Country felt tired and forced, and I really didn't enjoy it, made even worse by Valeris the Sue (as a point of note, I normally like Kim Catrall as an actress, especially Samantha Jones :o ) Generations... Meh. First Contact Awesome, Insurrection, episode badly stretched to a film and some very creepy behaviour from Data. Nemesis, other than the B4 nonsense, I quite enjoyed it, but felt Shinzon was forced. Did give us Commander Donatra however... :o
  • grandnaguszek1grandnaguszek1 Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I would rate TWoK, TMP, FC, and TVH over UC. The story in those actually made sense.:rolleyes:
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2014
    tiro100 wrote: »
    Did Nemesis throw off the pattern?

    No. There is no order to the good or bad ones...

    Fantastic: UC, TWOK, FC
    Great: TVH, ID
    Meah: SFS, I, N, 09, Gen
    Terrible: TMP, FF
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,218 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    tiro100 wrote: »
    Did Nemesis throw off the pattern?
    I still don't understand why people insist on implying that their opinion is in any way objective. :(
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    I still don't understand why people insist on implying that their opinion is in any way objective. :(

    The odds of us agreeing on anything are along the lines of us spending an afternoon opening lock boxes together and getting a ship out of each and every box, eh?

    But yeah, the number of folks in these countless threads that express their preferences for various movies as if they were anything other than their subjective preference is kind of a trip...
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    There was no pattern. It was simply franchise fatigue. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were too entrenched in Star Trek to ever be removed by any force other than the people holding the purse strings who could only deny them money.

    Nemesis was a warning that despite having Star Trek in the name, you need to work hard at what you do. You can't simply recycle the stupid revenge plot that made Wrath of Khan so great and expect it to work over and over again to try to recapture that success.

    There was the idea of setting up a TV show with the Enterprise-E cast, but the cast members by that point had already done their time. Everyone was aging. There were a few people still willing to do TV shows, like Michael Dorn. Frakes and Sirtis wanted to do a spin-off TV show with themselves and a new cast on board the U.S.S. Titan. But for most of them, they wanted to do movies instead of returning to the small screen.

    However, it really just came down to people who had absolute control over everything. Namely Rick Berman and Brannon Braga who were unwilling to go into new directions, and were quite obviously running out of ideas (and they had been for some time).

    Nemesis was a badly recycled Wrath of Khan.

    Insurrection was a badly recycled Journey's End.

    They wanted to just phone in their success, but after Nemesis and Enterprise, it became pretty evident that they were simply desperate to hold onto their power over the franchise. Not because they had any awesome ideas they wanted to produce.

    No patterns. Except the pattern of greed.
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  • jornadojornado Member Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    What I find amusing is that the two movies that most closely followed the structure, tone, and characterizations of their respective series' are the two least liked of the lot.

    Final Frontier gave us the most Kirk/McCoy/Spock interaction in the movies, period - and that is one of the most frequently cited positives of TOS - it has a cheesy story, some splosions, and a superbeing - in a essence, it's a perfect encapsulation of TOS.

    The same goes for Insurrection. Again, you get the characters acting almost as they did in the show, you have a bizarre story that really doesn't make tons of sense when you analyze it, and you even have utter TRIBBLE special effects.

    And yet, those are almost universally reviled, while the least capable renditions of Trek on the big screen (I'm looking at you, First Contact) are adored.

    To be frank, I like and dislike most of the Trek films equally - except for Nemesis, that was just a TRIBBLE. In my opinion, of course.
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  • jornadojornado Member Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ST 1 was most likely the only original plot out of the lot. Always full of suspense and awe. The special effect's and music where incredible! =3

    Still and always be my favorite, despite what the whiners troll on about, don't like it, then don't bloody watch it. Sheesh!

    I think I said this somewhere else recently, but it was the only hard SciFi the movies ever attempted - and hard SciFi is a tough sell in movies.

    It really is an incredible film, both technically and artistically, and I almost thing that if it weren't a Trek movie, it would be held in as high esteem as films like Blade Runner and 2001: A Space Odyssey. The Trek name kind of branded it as bubblegum to the hard SF crowd, and it never escaped. Probably never will.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    By the way of what I have seen in many Trek forums (especially this one) in terms of what Trek should be, The Motion Picture and the opening scene of Into Darkness, are the only True Trek moments. However, pew pew wins every time with TWOK, FC, and TUC.

    Personally, I love TMP, TUC, FC, and Trek XI.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ST 1 was most likely the only original plot out of the lot. Always full of suspense and awe. The special effect's and music where incredible! =3

    Still and always be my favorite, despite what the whiners troll on about, don't like it, then don't bloody watch it. Sheesh!
    Actually the motion picture was similar in premise to some eps of TOS. V'Ger was actually the SECOND probe from earth to get upgraded into a sentient WMD by an alien race.
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  • grandnaguszek1grandnaguszek1 Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Actually the motion picture was similar in premise to some eps of TOS. V'Ger was actually the SECOND probe from earth to get upgraded into a sentient WMD by an alien race.

    And Khan just had to be the first guy in star trek who wanted revenge, right?:rolleyes:
    say-star-wars-is-better.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    And Khan just had to be the first guy in star trek who wanted revenge, right?:rolleyes:
    Obviously not. But he had an interesting reason for it and methodology.
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    We're talking Real!Khan here, of course.

    JJKhan was a really well-acted emo with terrible writing behind him.

    Which was a sadly titanic waste of Benedict Cumberbatch, his Britishness, and his Gravitas.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Nemesis didn't throw off any pattern. All Nemesis did was send the TNG crew off with a TRIBBLE movie.
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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Nemesis just reminded us that TOS is real trek, and TNG is fake crappy Trek. :D
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  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    We're talking Real!Khan here, of course.

    JJKhan was a really well-acted emo with terrible writing behind him.

    Which was a sadly titanic waste of Benedict Cumberbatch, his Britishness, and his Gravitas.




    I find it funny that people gripe about Cumberbatch playing Khan. I personally thought he did an excellent job. His take on the role was one of the high points in an otherwise so-so film.


    But to each their own, I guess.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,159 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    We're talking Real!Khan here, of course.

    JJKhan was a really well-acted emo with terrible writing behind him.

    Which was a sadly titanic waste of Benedict Cumberbatch, his Britishness, and his Gravitas.

    Christ, I agree with this in its entirety. I swear the apocalypse is nigh....
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I find it funny that people gripe about Cumberbatch playing Khan. I personally thought he did an excellent job. His take on the role was one of the high points in an otherwise so-so film.


    But to each their own, I guess.

    He DID do a stellar job, and he was so damn good that he made everyone else look like a bunch of stupid robot cavemen.

    And Real!Khan was still better written.

    Also, this.

    (I'd like to note that I would pay Benedict Cumberbatch a trillion dollars to hear him say the last line in that comic for the good of the Internets)
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2014
    worffan101 wrote: »
    He DID do a stellar job, and he was so damn good that he made everyone else look like a bunch of stupid robot cavemen.

    And Real!Khan was still better written.

    I disagree, I understand JJKhans motives perfectly, he's a slightly insane megalomaniac who had his crew held hostage by a madman, tried to free them and went a little crazy by the end.

    OldKhan? Well, I dunno, something about being so monumentally stupid, he thought Kirk could manipulate the fate of an entire planet for some reason, nocking it out of it's orbit just to TRIBBLE with Khan.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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