Look... I don't want to make things more difficult than they have to be. As a compromise; if altering the Eclipse model is too problematic... just increase the size of everything else by 25-50%.
Yes, just what we need - a 50% bigger Scimitars! Maybe then the maps will explode when one warps in.
But you're not making any sense. How can altering the Eclipse model be too problematic and altering every other model in the game not be too problematic??
Huge cloaked ship means there are more cloaking systems to keep it cloaked. You don't use the same cloaking device on a Defiant that you would use on something the size of a Galaxy. There are more systems to deal with energy and emission output and more crew members to maintain the cloaking device. Therefore, at the sizes that we deal with for ships, size is meaningless for cloaked ships. Now if we were cloaking something the size of DS9 or a Borg Cube, then there might be some issues with cloaking
There's a contradiction right there. Size either matters or it doesn't.
Sizes like a shuttlecraft have difficulty staying cloaked because they require a lot of power, which a shuttle either doesn't have, or doesn't have enough room for a stronger generator.
On the other side of the spectrum, sizes like DS9 (properly sized DS9, I mean) have cloaking issues because of the sheer amount of power required to keep it cloaked. No cloak is perfect, and a larger object's cloak's imperfections are much easier to "see" than a smaller ship. One example is tetryon emissions. I believe that was from one of the TNG or DS9 episodes.
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Yes, just what we need - a 50% bigger Scimitars! Maybe then the maps will explode when one warps in.
But you're not making any sense. How can altering the Eclipse model be too problematic and altering every other model in the game not be too problematic??
'twas sarcasm.
Figured that would be self evident by the ridiculousness of the suggestion.
There's a contradiction right there. Size either matters or it doesn't.
Sizes like a shuttlecraft have difficulty staying cloaked because they require a lot of power, which a shuttle either doesn't have, or doesn't have enough room for a stronger generator.
On the other side of the spectrum, sizes like DS9 (properly sized DS9, I mean) have cloaking issues because of the sheer amount of power required to keep it cloaked. No cloak is perfect, and a larger object's cloak's imperfections are much easier to "see" than a smaller ship. One example is tetryon emissions. I believe that was from one of the TNG or DS9 episodes.
What you are looking for is this Episode:
Data Commands Sutherlund Granted it's slimmed down to only show Data commanding the ship, but you get the point.
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There's a contradiction right there. Size either matters or it doesn't.
Sizes like a shuttlecraft have difficulty staying cloaked because they require a lot of power, which a shuttle either doesn't have, or doesn't have enough room for a stronger generator.
On the other side of the spectrum, sizes like DS9 (properly sized DS9, I mean) have cloaking issues because of the sheer amount of power required to keep it cloaked. No cloak is perfect, and a larger object's cloak's imperfections are much easier to "see" than a smaller ship. One example is tetryon emissions. I believe that was from one of the TNG or DS9 episodes.
The larger the cloaked object, the more cloaked systems necessary to keep it cloaked. So while it technically might be possible to cloak a planet with early 25th Century cloaking device, a quarter or half of the planet might be required to be converted to cloaking systems. Size doesn't matter for the ships we command since everything from a Defiant to a Scimitar can be cloaked. AFAIK, we don't deal with (command) Borg Cubes or DS9. Obviously the cloaking device on the Scimitar takes up far more room than the Defiant, but it has the room to spare for it. The Borg Cube and DS9 are likely at the
Figured that would be self evident by the ridiculousness of the suggestion.
Well, it's established that sarcasm doesn't travel well on internet forums. You should always use the -->:rolleyes: emote, just to be on the safe side.
The Aldea's cloaking device was created by a highly advanced race so it is not relevant to a discussion about the limitations of cloaking devices used by the Federation.
Although, you could probably compare them to the cloaking devices used on 29th Century ships. I would be surprised if they couldn't cloak an entire planet from less advanced races.
I disagree, I think it should be bigger, it's a t-6 ship, and ships more advance, should be bigger, as they get to the Enterprise J, which is huge.
Also it's an Intelligence ship, unlike the Odyssey which is an Exploration ship that has Scientist, and Engineers, and tactical crew, the Intelligence ships, should have less crew, like Engineers to maintain it, and some Security officers, does not really need scientist.
You sir must be American :P
Being T6 doesn't mean bigger than everything else. Hell if anything ALL the T6 ships shown with the exception of the Guardian Cruiser are smaller than their original counter-parts.
The Ent J is huge, but is a multi-dimensional pancake and really shouldn't exist.
It isn't an Exploration ship it's an Intelligence Crusier, it's primary objective is to scout and gather Intel, much like an upgraded Voyager really. Same for Scryer and Phantom (both of which are a bit large too). The Phantom should be closer to the Defiant, Scryer should match the Intrepid.
I don't think you have thought through the logistics of a ship the size of the Odyssey having 2500 crew and the Intel Cruiser being the same size and having 400 crew. The discrepancy is enormous.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
The Aldea's cloaking device was created by a highly advanced race so it is not relevant to a discussion about the limitations of cloaking devices used by the Federation.
Although, you could probably compare them to the cloaking devices used on 29th Century ships. I would be surprised if they couldn't cloak an entire planet from less advanced races.
You'd still have a hell of a task hiding its absence
You can't just disapear a planet, since the light traveling from it from the past before the cloak is established will reveal there was a planet, and now there isn't
Not to mention its gravitational interactions with Other large bodies giving it away
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Being T6 doesn't mean bigger than everything else. Hell if anything ALL the T6 ships shown with the exception of the Guardian Cruiser are smaller than their original counter-parts.
The Ent J is huge, but is a multi-dimensional pancake and really shouldn't exist.
It isn't an Exploration ship it's an Intelligence Crusier, it's primary objective is to scout and gather Intel, much like an upgraded Voyager really. Same for Scryer and Phantom (both of which are a bit large too). The Phantom should be closer to the Defiant, Scryer should match the Intrepid.
I don't think you have thought through the logistics of a ship the size of the Odyssey having 2500 crew and the Intel Cruiser being the same size and having 400 crew. The discrepancy is enormous.
WTF does being an American have to do with anything. (and yes I'm aware of the sarcasm)
If a Constitution class can be run with 2 trainees, and a Chimpanzee, then I'm sure an Intel ship is fine with 400
WTF does being an American have to do with anything. (and yes I'm aware of the sarcasm)
If a Constitution class can be run with 2 trainees, and a Chimpanzee, then I'm sure an Intel ship is fine with 400
Which the second that system went into combat, it overloaded which lead to said ships destruction, at the hands of a B'rel BoP, which had said constitution been properly crewed, never would of happened.
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Which the second that system went into combat, it overloaded which lead to said ships destruction, at the hands of a B'rel BoP, which had said constitution been properly crewed, never would of happened.
Yeah, he did that in what less then a day, it's been over 100 years since that, and Star fleet has ships that can come apart into 3 ships.
Not to mention that the Romulans have been using huge ships to spy, where the intels hips are just gathering intelligence.
Twice the size, three times the speed. Manned by minimal crew, one if necessary. Yeah the U.S.S. Vengeance was twice the size of the enterprise (400 crew complement iiirc) and only had like 20 ppl on it, one if necessary. Size doesn't mean you have a huge TRIBBLE crew.
The size actually fits every other stat listed, though. It could even be argued that, although it is large, it isn't necessarily that big on the inside, and may require fewer crew to operate. The amount of hull points and the slow turn rate suggest a ship of massive size. And if we go by his ships were evolving during voyager (bio-neural circuitry and gel packs) and with the information on Borg technology that Seven inevitably brought back with her, its a fair assumption that a ship with such upgrades could essentially run most of its own systems, and even conduct certain repairs on itselfz allowing for a much smaller crew. And, being an Intel ship, clearly designed more for stealth, fewer crew members means a smaller bio-signature. Its actually one of the more well thought out ships that cryptic designed.
The larger the cloaked object, the more cloaked systems necessary to keep it cloaked. So while it technically might be possible to cloak a planet with early 25th Century cloaking device, a quarter or half of the planet might be required to be converted to cloaking systems. Size doesn't matter for the ships we command since everything from a Defiant to a Scimitar can be cloaked. AFAIK, we don't deal with (command) Borg Cubes or DS9. Obviously the cloaking device on the Scimitar takes up far more room than the Defiant, but it has the room to spare for it. The Borg Cube and DS9 are likely at the
The Scimitar pays the price for its large cloak though. The Scimitar Battle Cloak's description says it's weaker (easier to detect) than standard cloaks.
Anyways, back to the Eclipse. It would make more sense to make the ship smaller instead of larger to reduce the ship's detectable warp signature and emissions.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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I quite like that the eclipse is so big, but then I'm a sucker for big ships in general.
I'm with this guy. No logical reason as to why I want it to stay this big apart from the fact that I like big ships Sure, would make a whole lot of sense to make it smaller, but I like it being big.
The phantom on the other hand, should definitely be defiant sized.
"Polls are so annoying, let's make a poll to see who agrees!"
Okay - this discussion is mildly annoying. What exactly is the Eclipse doing that the Scimitard doesn't?!
Scimitard = large, powerful, ship with a cloaking device.
Eclipse - large, powerful (but not OP like the Scimitard) ship with a cloaking device.
No-one has a problem with this on the Scimitard, so what the heck is the issue here?!?
Its mainly that its breaking from its described purpose
The Scimitar is, to quote worf, a "predator" i suspect designed specifically to be able to fight through defense lines to deploy its thalaron weapon.
Its size is to accomodate its large array of weapons and fighter hangers , it has a reason for being so big
The Eclipse is an Intelligence vessel, many of us don't feel its massive size is appropriate to its function
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I personally see Cruisers as mobile bases. So the Eclipse is where the Phantom and Scryer go when they need to restock supplies. The Scryer is for covert research while the Phantom is for defense and Black Ops. So the Eclipse should be much bigger than the Phantom and Scryer.
I personally see Cruisers as mobile bases. So the Eclipse is where the Phantom and Scryer go when they need to restock supplies. The Scryer is for covert research while the Phantom is for defense and Black Ops. So the Eclipse should be much bigger than the Phantom and Scryer.
Comments
Yes, just what we need - a 50% bigger Scimitars! Maybe then the maps will explode when one warps in.
But you're not making any sense. How can altering the Eclipse model be too problematic and altering every other model in the game not be too problematic??
There's a contradiction right there. Size either matters or it doesn't.
Sizes like a shuttlecraft have difficulty staying cloaked because they require a lot of power, which a shuttle either doesn't have, or doesn't have enough room for a stronger generator.
On the other side of the spectrum, sizes like DS9 (properly sized DS9, I mean) have cloaking issues because of the sheer amount of power required to keep it cloaked. No cloak is perfect, and a larger object's cloak's imperfections are much easier to "see" than a smaller ship. One example is tetryon emissions. I believe that was from one of the TNG or DS9 episodes.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
'twas sarcasm.
Figured that would be self evident by the ridiculousness of the suggestion.
What you are looking for is this Episode:
Data Commands Sutherlund Granted it's slimmed down to only show Data commanding the ship, but you get the point.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The larger the cloaked object, the more cloaked systems necessary to keep it cloaked. So while it technically might be possible to cloak a planet with early 25th Century cloaking device, a quarter or half of the planet might be required to be converted to cloaking systems. Size doesn't matter for the ships we command since everything from a Defiant to a Scimitar can be cloaked. AFAIK, we don't deal with (command) Borg Cubes or DS9. Obviously the cloaking device on the Scimitar takes up far more room than the Defiant, but it has the room to spare for it. The Borg Cube and DS9 are likely at the
Well, it's established that sarcasm doesn't travel well on internet forums.
My character Tsin'xing
The Aldea's cloaking device was created by a highly advanced race so it is not relevant to a discussion about the limitations of cloaking devices used by the Federation.
Although, you could probably compare them to the cloaking devices used on 29th Century ships. I would be surprised if they couldn't cloak an entire planet from less advanced races.
You sir must be American :P
Being T6 doesn't mean bigger than everything else. Hell if anything ALL the T6 ships shown with the exception of the Guardian Cruiser are smaller than their original counter-parts.
The Ent J is huge, but is a multi-dimensional pancake and really shouldn't exist.
It isn't an Exploration ship it's an Intelligence Crusier, it's primary objective is to scout and gather Intel, much like an upgraded Voyager really. Same for Scryer and Phantom (both of which are a bit large too). The Phantom should be closer to the Defiant, Scryer should match the Intrepid.
I don't think you have thought through the logistics of a ship the size of the Odyssey having 2500 crew and the Intel Cruiser being the same size and having 400 crew. The discrepancy is enormous.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
You'd still have a hell of a task hiding its absence
You can't just disapear a planet, since the light traveling from it from the past before the cloak is established will reveal there was a planet, and now there isn't
Not to mention its gravitational interactions with Other large bodies giving it away
WTF does being an American have to do with anything. (and yes I'm aware of the sarcasm)
If a Constitution class can be run with 2 trainees, and a Chimpanzee, then I'm sure an Intel ship is fine with 400
Which the second that system went into combat, it overloaded which lead to said ships destruction, at the hands of a B'rel BoP, which had said constitution been properly crewed, never would of happened.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Yeah, he did that in what less then a day, it's been over 100 years since that, and Star fleet has ships that can come apart into 3 ships.
Not to mention that the Romulans have been using huge ships to spy, where the intels hips are just gathering intelligence.
Real join date September 2012
The Scimitar pays the price for its large cloak though. The Scimitar Battle Cloak's description says it's weaker (easier to detect) than standard cloaks.
Anyways, back to the Eclipse. It would make more sense to make the ship smaller instead of larger to reduce the ship's detectable warp signature and emissions.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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I'm with this guy. No logical reason as to why I want it to stay this big apart from the fact that I like big ships
The phantom on the other hand, should definitely be defiant sized.
Its mainly that its breaking from its described purpose
The Scimitar is, to quote worf, a "predator" i suspect designed specifically to be able to fight through defense lines to deploy its thalaron weapon.
Its size is to accomodate its large array of weapons and fighter hangers , it has a reason for being so big
The Eclipse is an Intelligence vessel, many of us don't feel its massive size is appropriate to its function
And once again I need to toss out the simple fact that if the ship is named Eclipse....what does an eclipse involve?
Quite frankly the ship is fine, its the first fed cruiser ship of that size that doesn't turn like a brick in space.
Maybe the real issue people are having is the fact that it is so large and isn't derp OP like the scimitar.
So lets move this thread to the fed shipyard and file it right under the galaxy thread. :rolleyes:
Was only a polite suggestion concerning the scale of the model itself. Seems off to my eyes.
Did not intend to incite an argumentative thread.
A very excellent response