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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

Doctor Who: Mummy on the Orient Express (SPOILERS)

steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
edited October 2014 in Ten Forward
Loved this episode and I think its the best one so far of the new Doctor. Episode 4 "Listen" was pretty good, but this felt better.

This Doctor is still a bit of a puzzle to me. Even 6 had compassion for people, 12 seems really dialed down in that category. Possibly its just the contrast to 11 who was really dialed up. And there's the canonical bit about the companions bringing him back into balance. It feels a bit like they're unfairly gimping Clara in the writing to make him colder.

Loved the Roaring 20s recreation and the feel of an Agatha Christie novel (better than 10's episode with Agatha). The twist with the holograms was great, too.

I was kind of disappointed the engineer didn't stay. It might have been interesting to have a companion that rarely if ever left the Tardis, content to tinker in the endless rooms.

I'm guessing "Gus" figures into to the Missy & Paradise arc?

EDIT: forgot to mention..."are you my mummy?" :D and jelly babies! :cool:
Post edited by steamwright on

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    edited October 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • wildthyme467989wildthyme467989 Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    steamwright wrote: »
    I'm guessing "Gus" figures into to the Missy & Paradise arc?

    I dunno, I'm thinking that they're setting up a big bad for a future series like the way the Silence was set up at the end of series 5
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Thought it was mostly a monster-of-the-week episode. I was disappointed at where the Clara-Doctor dynamic was and how she forgave him and even joined in so readily. Sorta reminds me of a battered-wife kind of thing, only his abuse is emotional and manipulative instead of physical. Honestly I thought it was a missed opportunity, do the episode with the Doctor alone, being the way he was, and have him realize on his own how much of a TRIBBLE he becomes without someone there to be his conscience. I like the way Capaldi plays 12 as such a huge jerk, really sets this incarnation apart, but he needs to have even just incremental growth or this can't last.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    An all round fantastic episode, this time with no eye rolling nitpicks in it, not only the best this series, but for a while.

    I liked 12 making the victims describe the mummy as they died, again very 6 or 4.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
    #TASforSTO


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  • timelords1701timelords1701 Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    and here i was thinking we would get a clara free episode, liked her during 12's run, but she is'nt doing well for this season with the 13th doc.
    at least we know she hasnt got many episodes left before she goes........
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited October 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    "Are you my mummy?" bwahahahaha :D
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited October 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 6,015 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    A very enjoyable episode, while Capaldi's doctor may be cold at times; this episode showed he could do the right thing as well
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • wildthyme467989wildthyme467989 Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-OTYT02W7E Music video for Don't Stop Me Now by Foxes with brief clips from past and future episodes, looks pretty interesting
    • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      steamwright wrote: »
      This Doctor is still a bit of a puzzle to me. Even 6 had compassion for people, 12 seems really dialed down in that category. Possibly its just the contrast to 11 who was really dialed up. And there's the canonical bit about the companions bringing him back into balance. It feels a bit like they're unfairly gimping Clara in the writing to make him colder.

      In my opinion, the Doctor should always be a bit of a puzzle. The overt compassion for others has definitely been dialed down, but it's definitely still there. Notice how quickly he got off the phone with Clara when he realized that Gus had killed the kitchen staff. And despite his cold demeanor, he saved everybody as soon as he possibly could, including teleporting them into the TARDIS at the end.
      reginamala78 wrote: »
      Thought it was mostly a monster-of-the-week episode. I was disappointed at where the Clara-Doctor dynamic was and how she forgave him and even joined in so readily. Sorta reminds me of a battered-wife kind of thing, only his abuse is emotional and manipulative instead of physical.

      I don't think we're in any way meant to look at Clara's conflict as a good thing. She's clearly emotionally torn - at least, she was at the beginning of the episode. She had legitimately convinced herself that this was her final trip when, as Maisie pointed out, she could have just not gone on a final trip. Clara herself hit the nail on the head at the end, right before her phone call with Danny. She's addicted, and like any addict she's willing to compromise herself to feed the addiction.

      I don't think the Doctor has been intentionally manipulating her into this position...I think she's in a bit of a self-made prison, and there will be consequences for her choice at the end of the episode.

      Honestly, this is probably the first episode in which Clara seemed like a real, fleshed-out character for me. When she first joined the show, the focus was on the Impossible Girl mystery, and why the Doctor was keeping her around, without bothering to explain why she wanted to be with the Doctor. After that got wrapped up, the series jumped ahead to a time when she and the Doctor had clearly been traveling together, and had settled into a kind of domesticity. It always rang a little false with me, because the show hadn't done the groundwork in setting up her motivations.

      Finally, she seems like a real character.
      You're right. The work here is very important.
      tacofangs wrote: »
      ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
    • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
      edited October 2014
      jeffel82 wrote: »
      I don't think we're in any way meant to look at Clara's conflict as a good thing. She's clearly emotionally torn - at least, she was at the beginning of the episode. She had legitimately convinced herself that this was her final trip when, as Maisie pointed out, she could have just not gone on a final trip. Clara herself hit the nail on the head at the end, right before her phone call with Danny. She's addicted, and like any addict she's willing to compromise herself to feed the addiction.

      I don't think the Doctor has been intentionally manipulating her into this position...I think she's in a bit of a self-made prison, and there will be consequences for her choice at the end of the episode.

      I think you're spot on. I read a well-written (if very long) review last night that pointed out that "addiction" was actually a theme of the episode, both overt and subtle. Clara accused the Doctor of being addictied to the dangerous situations, but in the end, she herself proved similarly addictive by denying the klaxons in her mind, and as addicts do, lying to the Doctor and herself in the process. And yes, this will not end well, I'm afraid. Moffat's tease of a speech from the last episode this series is looming ominously.

      Have we ever had a multi-episode companion from either series leave on a really bad note with the Doctor?
    • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      steamwright wrote: »
      I think you're spot on. I read a well-written (if very long) review last night that pointed out that "addiction" was actually a theme of the episode, both overt and subtle. Clara accused the Doctor of being addictied to the dangerous situations, but in the end, she herself proved similarly addictive by denying the klaxons in her mind, and as addicts do, lying to the Doctor and herself in the process. And yes, this will not end well, I'm afraid. Moffat's tease of a speech from the last episode this series is looming ominously.

      Have we ever had a multi-episode companion from either series leave on a really bad note with the Doctor?

      I guess being dead leaves a sour taste...... :P
    • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      steamwright wrote: »
      Have we ever had a multi-episode companion from either series leave on a really bad note with the Doctor?

      Well, Sarah Jane had some animosity for being left in Aberdeen, but I know that's not exactly what you're talking about. :)

      I can't think of any companions that left the Doctor on bad terms, though virtually all of the companions of the revived series have had pretty bleak sendoffs.
      You're right. The work here is very important.
      tacofangs wrote: »
      ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
    • shevetshevet Member Posts: 1,667 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      Tegan, arguably, in the Peter Davison era. Left the TARDIS because "it's not fun any more", and was clearly upset about the whole thing.

      Come to think of it, Donna Noble's leaving the team wasn't exactly a straightforward, amicable decision, either.
      8b6YIel.png?1
    • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      shevet wrote: »
      Come to think of it, Donna Noble's leaving the team wasn't exactly a straightforward, amicable decision, either.

      I've never heard her complaining! ;)
      You're right. The work here is very important.
      tacofangs wrote: »
      ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
    • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
      edited October 2014
      jeffel82 wrote: »
      I've never heard her complaining! ;)

      she had a marvelous consolation prize.
    • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      jeffel82 wrote: »
      I don't think we're in any way meant to look at Clara's conflict as a good thing. She's clearly emotionally torn - at least, she was at the beginning of the episode. She had legitimately convinced herself that this was her final trip when, as Maisie pointed out, she could have just not gone on a final trip. Clara herself hit the nail on the head at the end, right before her phone call with Danny. She's addicted, and like any addict she's willing to compromise herself to feed the addiction.

      I don't think the Doctor has been intentionally manipulating her into this position...I think she's in a bit of a self-made prison, and there will be consequences for her choice at the end of the episode.

      Can't that be used for most of the companions? The Doctor always puts them in dangerous situations and they keep staying with him until they are killed, trapped in another dimension, or some other traumatic event or recover from their addiction and get on with their lives with a few minor relapses.
    • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      starkaos wrote: »
      Can't that be used for most of the companions? The Doctor always puts them in dangerous situations and they keep staying with him until they are killed, trapped in another dimension, or some other traumatic event or recover from their addiction and get on with their lives with a few minor relapses.

      Sure you could. I think the difference here is that Clara is actively sabotaging her Earthbound personal life, which she wants. To make some comparisons across the revived series:

      Rose: Ran away from her personal life, and wasn't too upset about it.

      Martha: Ditto, coupled with her romantic interest in the Doctor.

      Donna: Initially rejected the Doctor's offer to travel with him, only to accept after her initial contact with him "awoke" her desire to investigate alien invasions and the like. After that, she was pretty happy to leave her lackluster life behind.

      Amy and Rory: Amy began travelling with the Doctor due to her serious psychological issues stemming from her encounter with the Doctor at a young age. She ran away with him with no intentions of coming back. By the end of their run, Amy and Rory were travelling with the Doctor only occasionally, and were seriously considering moving on from that aspect of their lives before they got stranded in time.

      And yes, all of these relationships ended fantastically badly (except perhaps Martha). It's definitely a recurring theme.

      To me, the situation with Clara is unique due to the context. She has a home life that she's legitimately invested in, but can't bring herself to give up the TARDIS life - it's all about her own inner conflict. It'll probably end badly, as it always does, but I think it's a new take on the old theme.

      It could also be that I'm just excited to see Clara finally have a meaningful story arc. :P
      You're right. The work here is very important.
      tacofangs wrote: »
      ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
    • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
      edited October 2014
      starkaos wrote: »
      Can't that be used for most of the companions? The Doctor always puts them in dangerous situations and they keep staying with him until they are killed, trapped in another dimension, or some other traumatic event or recover from their addiction and get on with their lives with a few minor relapses.

      Which is the gist of Rory's spot-on rant at #11 in "Vampires of Venice":
      You know what it's dangerous about you? It's not that you make people take risks, it's that you make them want to impress you. You make it so they don't want to let you down. You have no idea how dangerous you make people to themselves when you're around.

      (One of Rory's better moments, btw. Gutsy standing up to, potentially, one of the most dangerous beings anywhere)
    • thanatos9tthanatos9t Member Posts: 96 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      Did anyone else notice the conversation the Doctor had with Himself sounded like Tom Baker (I found the moment in the reaction video and Peter Capaldi does a great impression of Tom Baker:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=anzGYuRYolI#t=664
      "I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
    • UnknownUnknown
      edited October 2014
      This content has been removed.
    • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      I forgot to mention this earlier, but Murray Gold's score for the episode was amazing.

      He went for a kind of 60s vibe, rather than 1920s, and I loved it.
      You're right. The work here is very important.
      tacofangs wrote: »
      ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
    • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      This was amazing. The acting was spot on, as though they were allowed to use their skills. I thought, this really is the doctor and it shows that the doctor really thinks things out and says "Well might as well learn from it, we're damned no matter what".

      He did try to find out who would DARE do that to people and to him, but saved everyone else anyways. I thought he destroyed the train out of spite... didn't realise it was an accident.


      It was brilliant. Well written, could not nitpick.

      However I see why the actress of Clara wants out. She's not really being fleshed out properly.
    • radiantdarkness0radiantdarkness0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited October 2014
      steamwright wrote: »
      forgot to mention..."are you my mummy?" :D and jelly babies! :cool:

      Hah! Yea, i rewound a couple of times just to hear him say that again, LOL. And i love the jelly baby part. Those were the highlights of the episode for me.

      As much as that made me smile, however, i'm starting to become fearful of this new season. The last time we had a mean doctor (#6) it wasn't long before the series was cancelled. I also wasn't fond of the way Clara handled the conversation with Danny at the end of the episode. She of all people should know that the Doctor rarely arrives at precisely the correct place and time, so i feel it's a mistake for her to count on him to drop her back off with Danny before he starts to worry about where she's been.

      I don't like how there seems to be no further acknowledgement of her role as the "Impossible Girl": In the first episode, the Doctor asks her to "see" him: He's essentially saying, "Look at me!, i'm still the same guy underneath this new face. I'm still the same person you risked your life (and gave up your alternate lives) to save. I'm still YOUR Doctor, and i'm still your friend. And i love you (as a Time Lord/grandfather figure/best friend)!" And yet, now we have Clara smacking him, and yelling at him, while he's pushing her in very uncomfortable ways.

      I GET why he left her to make that massive decision on her own in the last episode. I really, REALLY get it. It was a very Time Lord-ish thing to do. It was a legitimate moral dilemma. And story-wise, it sets up the rest of the season for some potentially interesting dynamics. But he really did abandon her to a situation that he himself setup. And further, this current episode really needed to payoff on that setup in a big way, and i feel like it fell completely flat in that regard.

      I like how Moffat started him off darker than ever before, and left everyone (the Doctor, Clara, and the audience) to wonder "Who is this new Doctor, and is he a Good Man?" But don't we already know that good men don't need rules, and the writers should always be aware of, and demonstrate, why the Doctor has so many.
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