Fleet Leaders: Ideas to improve Chain of Command?

crusader2007

As a fleet leader...just tired of trying to find a better system of command than just mere dictatorship. Meaning one rule fleet. I have never thought that one person should have lots of absolute power and not fond of it.

However, on the other side of the coin is a council based leadership that could be balanced. Problem is that most human beings tend to be cynical and egotistical (sorry just IMO). Very hard to find "good" quallity people and by that I mean just being honest and respectful of each other without incurring "drama". In a council...one person still is heavily out-balanced if he/she has an agressive or strong personality. As of now most people leave STO so very hard to attain that balance and complicates this model even more.

So question is what is the best system to balance a perfect (or close to it) fleet leadership command structure? Dictatorship, council, other?

I have been doing this for over 3 years and still defy my mind which chain of command model a fleet in STO should have. Still trying to experiment on my 400plus members fleet.
What makes it more complicated are the personalities of individuals and the "good" people leaving the fleet. Is a dictatorship better suited for a happy fleet? what has worked for you as a fleet leader and what hasn't?

Thanks in advance for any responses!

ilhansk

Council.

A one-man show usually leads to disaster and silly despotism.

Despite some obstacles and disadvantages, a council remains the better choice. The new ranking system supports council systems way better then previously.

At the end though, the quality of a fleet rises and falls with the quality of leadership. If you ever find a "quality" person with good leadership capabilities, don't let him go.

peetapipmac

Single person leadership, all the way.

Join leadership (council) leaves you too open to drama and conflict. (or just plain old temper tantrums)

Best to have the buck stop with one person. By all mean have lower leader ranks there to help, but you need a single clear cut leader to make the decisions.

If that person abuses that position then pretty soon he'll find himself leading a ghost fleet.

spencerb96

Councils work quite a bit better from what I've seen.

When I first started playing, the fleet I was spam invited into was a dictatorship. Due to everything in the fleet going through one guy, it was quite a mess, especially since he was so kick happy for a multitude of things. Eventually myself and most of that fleet split, and made the fleet I'm currently in.

We have a council of 5 at rank 7, all major issues go through a vote, if a R7 is not available, a R6 will vote for them. And we make sure that anyone at Rank 5 and above is stable, someone that cares about the fleet, and it's members.

From a member view, the council structure tends to be preferred, as they know that they're not depending on a single person to run the fleet, and they know that there will almost always be someone at a leadership rank online at any time of the day to take care of any issue.

If you do go with a council based structure, you'll find it hard to find good choices. Go with people you know are active with your fleet and it's members, and that is not in it for themselves. Finding people that your members trust is very important. You'll want to talk to your members, and see who they think are good candidates, then talk to those candidates and see if they're interested.

Just don't go with people that only talk to you. The fleet my fleet split from was a dictatorship, and after the split, they went to a council. The issue is, is that the original fleet leader choose 2 others that only really talked to him, not to the members. One of which rarely logs on. They're sitting there now in a position where they'll likely never be able to recover, because that leadership doesn't communicate with their members and continues to force down ideals that member's don't like. Such as being kicked for talking to members from certain fleets, having alts in other fleets, wanting to get fleet gear, etc.

transwarpfire80

Yeah it takes one fleet leader to throw away everyone else's contributions hard work and time just because he gets his ego hurt and decides his way or the highway...sorry but a good council is the way to go. Its more representative of the fleet, provides availability for issues and benefits and in general is more harmonious than a single fleet **** running things down the toilet then blaming others as to why it sucks

calv1701e

could not agree more

captaindraco

I wish there was more fleet ranks in the rank structure then just 7 ranks.

crusader2007

Thanks to ALL. I guess the council system is still the better choice and retain any GOOD quality officers....sounds like a plan

nekhron

crusader2007 wrote: »

As a fleet leader...just tired of trying to find a better system of command than just mere dictatorship. Meaning one rule fleet. I have never thought that one person should have lots of absolute power and not fond of it.

As a former Master Sergeant of the 7th U.S. Cavalry Regiment, a combat veteran, and as an uberrnerdStarTrekgeek, AND as the ubergamernerdgeek I am, it is not difficult for me to answer this query.
First of all the title says it all. FLEET. A Fleet, by its very definition, is a military organization. You must remember that this game is basically a space based MILITARY simulator. So to my mind, I have no problem being the CinC and being "dictatorrial". There is no democracy in a military organziaton. Of course, your Fleet, and how you choose to run it, is entirely your prerogative. For me, its pretty straightforward. Of course, I am a Klingon in both Spirit as well as in game fact, so your question is really just an academic exercise for me.. lol. I am myself Supreme Commander of my Fleet, House Seplch Battlefleet, and I assure you, I run it with an iron discipline and I am the final arbiter in all decisions concerning House Seplch and its Fleet.
I wish you luck with your "democratic" Fleet Command....when you need to get it all straightened out, call upon a Klingon to fix it for you.:cool:

ryakidrys

I am 1 of many fleet admirals in a fleet that is comprised of technically 3 different fleets. Selecting good and quality people to help manage a fleet is very tough, especially with the difficulties and (lack of) controls that Cryptic/ PW give us to manage things with.
Single entity leadership is good if the leader is good and just. You will always have those that you can't please because they want something else, and their voice can cut and hurt. You have to lead through the tough times.
Council approach is good to spread out decisions and management of the fleet, but is less convenient in some ways as a group must discuss and decide on issues. It can seem to cause frustrating delays. When one Fleet Admiral makes changes without discussing the issue and getting a consensus of actions to be taken by the council/ group, then he/she can easily destroy the trust of the other fleet admirals, make the leadership appear to be ineffective/ unjust, and it can erode the confidence of the fleet members.
The tools we are given by Cryptic/ PW cause troubles with the council approach, too. If a fleet admiral character in one fleet needs to be demoted due to some reason, other characters used by the same person can be delayed from demotion because of a lack of being able to demote all characters from a single account. The person maybe the same, though they have 3 or more toons/ characters, but alternate characters at fleet admiral level take time to demote with the current system. Once demotions commence, there is the danger that the person who's character was a fleet admiral can use one of their other toons that can't be demoted yet to do something that the fleet will regret. This leads back to making good decisions about the people that are your fleet admirals.

vermatrix

problem with trying to have more than one fleet leader is unless they are relitives or friends outside of STO you can set yourself up to get shafted, afterall, anyone in the big rank has the ability to kick any fleet rank, you could end up making a fleet, doing all the work only to have someone you share leadership with give you the boot and take over.

cookiecrook

Our fleets originally had the issue of disappearing fleet leaders a long time ago. Before the fleet system allowed for inactive promotions, we held a vote to pick new fleet leaders and then they created the two new fleets and abandoned our originals. These fleet leaders were all nominated and voted for on by everyone who chose to vote from the original two fleets. These leaders have changed slightly since with some leaving but the leaders voted on replacements. They maintain an odd number of leaders to keep voting between them from becoming a tie. For the Ten Forward fleets, this system has worked exceptionally well.

tehbubbaloo

is the entire 'council' system primarily a fed thing? i have toons in quite a few kdf fleets, and as a result have seen a lot of kdf fleet mails and such in my years in sto. i dont think i have ever seen one refer to a council, a meeting, a fleet uniform, etc. i also have toons in many fed fleets, and they seem to generally be into that sort of thing.
so maybe my system is largely representative of the kdf. i am the the only person in rank 7. rank 6 have nearly as many permissions (they cant rename the fleet or kick people) and generally just queue projects and facilitate external fleetmark donations, promote people, etc. the only fleetmails to ever go out are informational ('there is a lobi event next week'), and generally we just let people go about their business. no meetings, no votes, no special uniforms.
personally, if i joined a fleet with my main and the whole council bureaucracy was obviously in play, i think i would leave.

niekostrous

a2754 wrote: »

I think the main thing is you go with what works for you. Sadly you can't make everyone happy, and you'll have those that want to leave & do their own thing after a little butt hurt cuz you didn't kiss theirs.

It's a game, and people come & people go. Just know that some are a cancer that refuse to be part of the solution yet part of the problem, and often try to destroy instead of trying to fix.

So if a single person in the lead works for you then stick with it, often people look at a fleet of 400 - 500 people as a successful fleet and those in the 100 - 200 range not so much. If it's not broke don't fix it.

IMHO, I'd rather have a fleet of 20 solid people than 500 people that just take up space. I will say you are right, the game is full of cynical & egotistical people and these people try to hide behind illusions they themselves create, but hey what can you do when the gamership is mostly immature drama queens.

So with all that being sad just stick with what works, and if you need to change it up then do so, but don't change for the sake of change or because some idiot full of himself says you should. If you have the people you have in your fleet it's cuz you're doing something right and in the end remember people come & go, but the ones that matter are the one's that stick with you through the ups & downs....not the lil' kids that run cuz you're on a down or cuz there might be a lil' drama.

Remember it only takes 5 to make a fleet, but it takes a leader to make it grow & flourish no matter what the roster count is....sadly though most in the game judge their fleets by the number of people in it....when you should be judging by quality, not quantity.

So stay the course & correct as needed.

Thanks for putting into words what I was still formulating in my head. I am the proud sole leader of my 274 member fleet (Damage Amalgamated), with two trustworthy Fleet Admirals just below me. They have every permission I have, save for the two or three that guarantee my position. Afterall, I'd be crushed to lose my creation (time, money, contributions). Reading this forum made me realize how to label my fleet (dictatorship) & further structure its leadership. My fleet leadership of three spans as many timezones globally (USA, Scotland, & Australia). For this, I am extremely grateful.
Members will join. Members will leave (without explanation, which saddens me). I'm always trying to encourage participation, without being mean about it. Promotion beyond rank 3 DOES require more than just contributing to fleet projects, however.
I no longer feel that reaching 500 members should be our main goal. Having a strong backbone of a dozen or so knowledgeable, helpful, honest, & loyal members IS all that's needed. The rest are merely numbers taking up space.

One lingering question: How to expand? Blind spam invites are certainly not preferable. We do have a website under construction. However, I feel a bit overwhelmed creating content for it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the forum hints. Have a lovely day.

kintisho

As a TINY fleet leader and a Fleet Ambassador to a large T5 fleet I have one thing to say: Alliances, cross fleet channels for communication, small fleets allying with large fleets have advantages on both sides of the proverbial table. Endless projects to contribute to, earning massive fleet credit and a place or 2 or 3 to spend said credit in larger more complete fleets stores... Also if you have a small active fleet, feel free to mail me in game (@Kintisho) for alliance review and proceedings.