test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Devs Officially Encourage Ship Roles
orangeitis
Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
http://priorityonepodcast.com/po191/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=po191
At about 1:03
This is why Tac ships get damage boosts. This is why Cruisers get defensive boosts. I'm not saying the Trinity system is an accurate description, but they apparently don't want all ships to be super-DPS hogs.
Thoughts?
At about 1:03
This is why Tac ships get damage boosts. This is why Cruisers get defensive boosts. I'm not saying the Trinity system is an accurate description, but they apparently don't want all ships to be super-DPS hogs.
Thoughts?
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
sounds about right.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
this would be a better list then the trinity
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnAdventurerIsYou
if you read it most types are covered on both ground and space. only the resource one it not in the game in some manner. it's the fan base that is all about boated dps numbers. can't blame cryptic for giving them what they want.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Then they need to design gear, encounters, ships, skill trees, and everything else i've left out to reflect that!!!
Why run 1 Eng in a cruiser, 1 Sci in a sci ship and 3 tacs in tac ships when 5 tacs can do the same thing? and faster? I guess the simplest way i can say it is Sci ships need to have a reason to play that support/cc/healer whatever role, tac in escorts need to have a reason to fear getting aggro, and eng in cruisers need to have confidence in their ship, in their abilities AND in the npc offensive abilities. As in that engineer cap in a cruiser wont get owned the instant they get aggro from a tac cube either through their lack of skill (which the game doesnt bother trying to teach them), or from glitchy NPC abilities like invisi torps (which they have still not been able to fix), or their lack of gear (which the LFG tool doesnt bother trying to regulate).
Their "vision" or their "goal" may have been for the game to have a trinity. But the reality of it is all the mechanics as a whole say that the best defense is a good offense...a really really good offense.
They better work at providing content that really requires the non-DPS guys then, however.
It's not sufficient to specialize ships or builds - the specialization must help you beat difficult scenarios better, or it's dead weight.
How about a test group of 5 good players setup with the trinity in mind. An eng in a cruiser, a sci in a sci and 3 tacs in tac ships. Have them build up their gear and skill sets so that they are playing their trinity roles. Have all of them be in equal pre-ESTF gear that has stats for their role, and also have them have the best rep gear available also for their role. Have those people run queues and time themselves once in pre-ESTF gear and again when they are wearing their BiS rep gear. Once that's done have those same 5 people all get onto their tac toons, get into their tac ships all of which have the same gear level as the previous trinity ships they were flying and then repeat the runs and get a time comparison.
I know that there is going to be a time difference, but i want to know how much.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Pretty much this exactly.
Everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) in this game is tailored DPS/Tac heavy.
I have an Engineer. He flies a Tac Oddy, and because he is the only character I RP as an Admiral, he is basically retired, parked in a patrol sector.
I have 2 Science Officers. One flies a Vesta, because it is more tactically oriented than most Science ships. He is my crafter, I don't do much with him anymore. The other Science officer is a Romulan, flying the Veteran Destroyer, which is Tac oriented.
All the rest of my Officers, including my sole Klingon, are Tac Officers, and their ships are:
Avenger
Tempest
Eng Vesta
Galaxy (Pretty much parked, only use him for Ground based PvE queues)
Mogh Battlecruiser
The Avenger is tactically oriented for a Cruiser, the Tempest is an Escort, the Eng Vesta is a placeholder for possibly using a Guardian T6, the Galaxy is parked and the Mogh is tactically oriented.
Frankly, it's not alot of fun to play as an Engineer or Science Officer, and it's even less fun to play in traditional cruisers or traditional science ships. They simply struggle to keep up with the sheer firepower of the escorts, destroyers and more tactically oriented cruisers.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
I only ask because OP just mentioned Tacs and Engs...
ymmv, really I rather prefer sci/eng heavy ships.
just got a fleet ambassador for my fed eng . after rejecting more tact heavy ships
my kdf tact most flies eng heavy ships mirror voquv, and mirror vorcha, my favorite BOP set up is more sci then anything.
my RR sci flies the free dyson mostly cause I haven't gotten around to getting the 3 pack yet.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
For example I own an excellent energy drain boat on one of my science characters. But its dps is very low. Even though I can annihilate a Neghvar's shields in a Elite STF in a matter of seconds I got critized serveral times for not dealing enough dps to actually be in a Elite STF. It's the same with engineeing ships outfitted as a tank. They can get the attention of any enemy and can withstand a constant barrage for ever but they don't deal much damage.
The game in its current state has no need for tanks, drain boats and the like. 5 escorts with top gear will always complete an STF in less time than a mixed group of science, engineering and tactical vessels. I'm very optimistic that with Delta Rising there will be a need for tanks and healers once again. Or going even further that a group without tank and healer is certain to fail on higher difficulties.
Make DPS no longer the one and only factor in content. If friendly ship dies, you fail the mission/stf.
I REALLY want to take out my engineering super high aggro odyssey and make it into a tank boat again. I've always loved the tank type play in mmo's (Was a tank warrior in WoW for 7+ years). But in STO I can't. Being anything other than dps focused just makes everything take longer to do.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
I think if they made it so that cruiser captains can withstand hits from things like cubes and spheres that might help. Now people who run Sci and Tac ships wont get criticized because then they *need* those cruisers to tank for them. The instant a escort or bop gets aggro from a tac cube then POP they are dead in 3 seconds unless the cruiser is able to get aggro back.
But that would require a chance in some mechanics. Cruisers would need to be given "taunt" like abilities, and that's something that could be worked into abilities like beam overload or bfaw. BO could hit one target and increase threat by 1000% if used by a cruiser or something like that. BFAW if used by a cruiser has a +1000% threat modifier and it will hit everything in range at least once. Maybe give small hull ships like BoPs and escorts a -threat modifier for the ship. BoPs have the +25% raider flanking damage when they are behind. So do something similar with BoPs and Escorts where the ships have an innate -50% threat reduction or something. Science ships have an innate 20km range for shield/hull heals or something like that. Why stop at raider flanking damage? give cruisers, sci ships and tac ships more innates or passives so that people dont have to spec skills into things or so they dont have to redo the skill tree again.
Of course one side effect is if an instance that requires a trinity instead of the trinity just being optional then queue times and the queue tool might have to change. Right now the trinity is optional and because of that we can queue up and the first 5 people go. If each queue requires 1 cruiser, 1 sci and 3 dps then we will have the problem other games have with trinity queue wait times. Instant queue times for cruisers, near instant queue times for science and 10 minute wait times for tac ships.
And you were still better off with 5 Tacs in Scims, as every NPC melted in moments leaving plenty of time to lazily close rifts and boost satellites even if it wasn't as quick.
And then they broke the rift spawns and made it into just another timegated DPS run until the Flagship turned up.
There are some threat generating consoles already (science consoles from the fleet embassy). They either have the threat reduction or threat increase modifier. Then there's the skill "Starship Threat Control" that increases threat generation and damage resistance. But I completely agree with you that all three ship classes shout get more unique properties.
Well the way I see it this almost mandatory trinity (mandatory at least for high difficulties) would make it necessary to form a group before you join a queue. Like most MMO require you to do. There could be an official LFG/LFM channel. I think most people wouldn't object to such a requirement.
As I remember from other MMOs I played healers and tanks were usually much more difficult to find than damage dealers. I also suppose that the ratio of tactical, science and engineering captains would very much allow for a 3/1/1 group to form quickly. Of course I don't know the exact numbers and all of this is pure speculation.
Pretty much this..... But I think the game is to far gone to push anything other than DPS.
further, the new borg ships at advanced and elite have too much HP to take down intime to do the optionals with a DPS only focused ship. And they also hit too hard to ignore heals in a build.
Yah that's pretty much where my example of the wait times are from. Games like WoW or SWTOR which has queue spots for a tank, healer and 3 dps. There's no reason why the LFG tool here would have to be thrown out if STO goes to a mandatory trinity. But it just means that it is no longer first come first serve for everybody. Within a queue system tanks usually have the lowest wait time because there are so few of them. Healers usually have the next lowest wait time because there are also a few healers population wise, but usually they outnumber tanks but are outnumbered by dps. And dps are usually the most numerous since there are so many, because they are relatively easier to play (especially when there is a dedicated tank and healer).
Having said all that, it is going to be hard to predict what the wait times will be for everybody. Lots of people fly cruisers, but are those same people willing to tank full time? to build and spec for it? It's a risky change, probably also be an unpopular one and it would almost certainly end up with a longer wait time for somebody. As far as who that 'somebody' will be? who knows. But i'm guessing it will end up being the 3 dps since thats how it usually is in other games.
just logged in to say the same. we will get loooong wait timers if tank+heal roles implemented.
not so much people want to play heal or tank and be blamed for any fails - when something goes wrong people think it's usually tanks and healers fail.
trinity roles are old times now, they're obsolete. as for me - multipurpose role is much more fun
Problem is, the content doesn't reward any other type of gameplay.
Joined January 2009
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
It find it amusing because the game itself doesn't encourage the use of anything other then maximum damage. Also, the best ships are flexible enough to do it all. Put out damage, tank, and some can even cc/heal all at the same time. When you have ships like this that are good at everything whats the point in having a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer, or a paper hull dps monster? They say they want to promote diversity like that of the classic trinity, but the very assets they insert into the game and almost all the mission objectives say otherwise. There are escorts, which are supposedly dps ships, that can tank as well as a cruiser. There are cruisers, which are supposedly tank ships, that can put out dps that would make an escort pilot jealous. There are science ships, supposedly heal/cc ships, that can put out ridiculous dps, tank everything, and heal/cc. So in all honesty cryptic can say whatever they want, the proof is in the pudding so to speak.
And nothing for sci, because they hate sci.....Lol, that is hilarious.
If the devs want to move away from everything being Tactical and killing stuff as quick as possible, then they actually have to provide end game content that isn't tailored to that role..
How can a dev say that when they are just about to release new hiked up hitpoint queues, designed for people to kill stuff within a countdown clock??
Personally I like it to a degree. Ships need to be different and play out different to add variety to the game - and variety is the spice of life! I must admit, all the constant complaining about more DPS, more tactical consoles, DHC and battlecloaks on every ship is getting tiresome.
I just hope the newly released content in "Delta Rising" also reflects this statement you posted here.
you should know as well as anyone else that things "said" are never set in stone from a podcast. i dont trust anytihng on a podcast and when its written down and cast in stone then thats where it is accurate. so this doesnt mean anything.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Cryptic displays superior effort in saying one thing and doing the complete opposite afterwards. Has always been like that and I highly doubt it will change. Like other posters pointed out, their newest invention (elite difficulty STF) buffs up enemies and adds non optional timers to the missions. Doing that and saying they want to encourage the use of other classes either proves that one dev doesn't know what the other does, they're still delusional/develop a different game than we are playing or they are flat out lying/PR-talking.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!