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Levelless Items will STOP at 50 - WTF?

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  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited September 2014

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • nazelnagnazelnag Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    except all the free content, and 5 guest actor VO, the upgrade to lockbox and lobi ships, rep gear and everything else that's free?


    did anyone asked for 5 guest actors VO and so on ?

    when i started the game, a friend told me : the game starts at LVL 50 (because everything until lvl 50 and MK XII was transitory and useless at the end)

    i see we spend a long time to reach LVL 50 on all alts. setting ship Lay outs and set bridge officers with proper gear.

    bought a bunch of stuff like c-store ships, leveles weapons and console ships ... that now, are either upgraded or useless ... all of that, we have to pay 2x again and have a alt of work to upgrade all again.

    now, they grab back the cards, shuffle them and sell them back to us again.

    i really don't think i want to do all the work and pay more money again for what i already have. maybe i go try something else ... :(

    there were plenty of alternative ways for them to get more money out of us, in a willing and pleasant way, than just force us all the remodulations. :cool:
  • verlaine11verlaine11 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Hmmmmm

    Looks at my Galor class ships
    Looks at the EXSPENSIVE Spiral Wave Disruptors on them
    Starts getting angry RAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Tribble patch notes http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1217861
    All leveless Lobi Store Ground and Space Equipment will now stop scaling once the player reaches level 50.

    MORE INFORMATION WILL BE AVAILABLE SOON EXPLAINING HOW THESE ITEMS CAN STILL BE VIABLE FOR LEVEL 51-60 CONTENT.

    Used all caps to make it easier to see since somebody missed it.

    If you want to panic and jump to conclusions the DOOOOOOOOM thread is that way ---> http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=843461

    Get a grip people. Sheesh. I can understand there being concerns about things. I'm concerned too, but I'm gonna wait for official info before I start ranting.
  • atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Tribble patch notes http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1217861


    Used all caps to make it easier to see since somebody missed it.

    If you want to panic and jump to conclusions the DOOOOOOOOM thread is that way ---> http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=843461

    Get a grip people. Sheesh. I can understand there being concerns about things. I'm concerned too, but I'm gonna wait for official info before I start ranting.

    You're missing the point (though I suspect that's intentional with your childish "DOOM" link). These items were advertised as levelless. Now Cryptic is changing them to squeeze more $$$ out of players. These items are not cheap mob drops, they require lockbox grinding -- a ridiculously expensive endeavor.
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Don't most countries have laws about the sale of items?

    In the UK if you sell something, it must be as described. Cryptic sold levelness items, therefore they should remain so. They should not have described them as such when they were sold, and should be bound by the original sales description.
  • redheadguyredheadguy Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    So on the latest Tribble Release Notes it is stated that levelless Lobi items (i.e MK Infinity gear and consoles) will stop raising in stats once a player hits 50.

    They outline that there will be an alternate method to upgrade these items (probably connected to the standard 12->14 upgrade system that is slowly being introduced to the test server piece by piece...)

    I have a MASSIVE issue with this.

    We have paid for levelless items for the VERY reason that they will level up with us and this should continue to be the case beyond 50 up to 60.

    I will not PAY AGAIN for an item to upgrade it past mk 12, when it is supposed to be a Mk-Infinity item that continues to upgrade as my character ranks up.

    This is the case for Lobi store ground and space gear, the galors spiral disruptors, the various quad cannons within the game and a WHOLE HOST of other items with Mk-Infinity.

    I will pay for my Mk XII to upgrade (in what looks like a long time and expensive dilithium gated system), but I think having to pay for something that should auto-upgrade, and something that WE BOUGHT IN THE KNOWLEDGE IT WOULD AUTOUPGRADE is plain wrong.

    Stop trying to nickel and dime us. We will leave and you will all be out of jobs.

    The whole point of this is to make us buy what we already have. Thats it. Nothine else to it really. Delta Riasing = milking Trek fans of every penny we have. :rolleyes:
    [SIGPIC]

    [/SIGPIC]
  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Just don't play any of the (free) level 51+ content. That way you're still the tops!
    giphy.gif
  • dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    equinox976 wrote: »
    Don't most countries have laws about the sale of items?

    In the UK if you sell something, it must be as described. Cryptic sold levelness items, therefore they should remain so. They should not have described them as such when they were sold, and should be bound by the original sales description.

    Nobody can buy a level-less item directly so no sales laws can affect them in any way. All items were gained through something else like a lockbox for example. The sale part though applies to the key and not the box and so the description of the box of its contents is also irrelevant.

    Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
  • cincyman39cincyman39 Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    pupibird wrote: »
    ... but it also says :

    (...) More information will be available soon explaining how these items can still be viable for level 51 – 60 content. (...)

    ...so I hope they will find a fair way for this...I spent more than 5000 lobos in the shop..!

    A little history: It will all depend on our actions and not what we say. I remember back in the D. Stahl days they tried to take dilitium away from the STFs..people nearly completely stopped playing them and 2 days later they changed it back. The force is with us!:)

    Oh yes my friend preech that history sto's darkest hour the day they took away the dilthium from the stf's and added dilithium cost to everything and your new rep lol I remember watching friends and members drop their subs some quit what a p.r nightmare they had.

    Here's a history question for you do you remember that lame excuse D.Stahl spit out as to why the dilithium got removed from the stf's??
  • atlantraatlantra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    STO is turning into one big azz cluster [redacted]. I'm sure it will be sorted out. No worries here. I have faith in my favorite game. Just give it some time. Maybe the boneheaded direction may reverse. Just fire enough FLAK I guess.
    The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • corelogikcorelogik Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    equinox976 wrote: »
    Don't most countries have laws about the sale of items?

    In the UK if you sell something, it must be as described. Cryptic sold levelness items, therefore they should remain so. They should not have described them as such when they were sold, and should be bound by the original sales description.

    You have GOT to be kidding me. People REALLY need to get a grip, "threatening" to use real world laws against a game company for an in game purchase,...

    *head explodes at the insanity of it all*
    "Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me
    "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
  • longasclongasc Member Posts: 490
    edited September 2014
    I do not like that either.

    So items levelling with the player stop at 50. Before they were sold and advertised as leveling with the player. :rolleyes:

    But no, they don't stop, you can PAY to make them viable again.
    It has to stop at a certain point. Delta Rising has already enough ways to attack my wallet.

    I won't quit STO because of this, but guess why I am not playing Neverwinter and won't consider playing and paying for future Cryptic/PWE games. They ask for quite some money for a lot of things and then dare to do this kind of double dipping.

    Better don't TRIBBLE off your paying customers. :mad:
  • foolishowlfoolishowl Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I'd guess that levelless items are each associated with a static array of sets of values that defines their attribute values at levels 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50. But they can't just add another couple of sets of values for each item without massively redesigning a lot of data structures. So the best workaround they could find was to create new items that have the desired values.
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    corelogik wrote: »
    You have GOT to be kidding me. People REALLY need to get a grip, "threatening" to use real world laws against a game company for an in game purchase,...

    *head explodes at the insanity of it all*

    Erm, I think its YOU who needs to get a grip dude.

    Nowhere did I threaten, or encourage anyone to threaten 'real world laws' against a game company.

    I made an observation about the laws.

    Anyhow, if cryptic is happy to accept 'real world' money, they should be able to follow 'real world' laws.

    Here's some glue for that head of yours.
  • gl2814egl2814e Member Posts: 328 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    corelogik wrote: »
    You have GOT to be kidding me. People REALLY need to get a grip, "threatening" to use real world laws against a game company for an in game purchase,...

    *head explodes at the insanity of it all*

    Didn't some Australian board or court rule against Steam concerning digital goods recently?
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    '....viable for level 51-60 content'

    Is it just me or is that a slightly odd turn of phrase?

    Not, 'stay tuned for their unique upgrade process', but the rather vaguer 'viable'.


    Because we don't know whats coming down the road on this, we can't in honesty say it sux or rox.

    However, if we're going to go down this convuluted road (and any solution beyond retaining the definition of the word leveless is just convuluted) then explanations need to be better.



    PR and CM was not done well at the beginning, but it'd be churlish not to recognise that it has been getting a lot better.

    Clarity on this issue sooner rather than later would be appreciated.
  • dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gl2814e wrote: »
    Didn't some Australian board or court rule against Steam concerning digital goods recently?

    Probably still doesnt apply as people pay money to buy an in-game currency. What people choose to do with in-game currency is not the laws concern unless the company steals or misappropriates it in some way. People still get what they have paid for (zen) as always and this has not changed.

    Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
  • mercurythefirstmercurythefirst Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Cryptic is commanded by Perfect World Interactive, known as the dirtiest publisher in free-to-play (I shouldn't use that term anymore now that it is soon illegal in the EU) so expect these things. Go to your consumer protection bureau, if your country has one (which is almost every country except USA)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    bloodpact.net

    "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."

    -Michelangelo
  • drmoxdrmox Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It maybe fair to give people a free kit upgrade token or whatever as a nice gesture to help with the change maybe?

    Eitherway if you can now make these items more powerful than what they would have been keeping them like they are; would that not be a more attractive option than keeping them the status quo?

    I can understand how some could see this as another unethical example to earn more revenue from people who may have plateaued on their spending?
    image
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    So on the latest Tribble Release Notes it is stated that levelless Lobi items (i.e MK Infinity gear and consoles) will stop raising in stats once a player hits 50.

    They outline that there will be an alternate method to upgrade these items (probably connected to the standard 12->14 upgrade system that is slowly being introduced to the test server piece by piece...)

    I have a MASSIVE issue with this.

    We have paid for levelless items for the VERY reason that they will level up with us and this should continue to be the case beyond 50 up to 60.

    I will not PAY AGAIN for an item to upgrade it past mk 12, when it is supposed to be a Mk-Infinity item that continues to upgrade as my character ranks up.

    This is the case for Lobi store ground and space gear, the galors spiral disruptors, the various quad cannons within the game and a WHOLE HOST of other items with Mk-Infinity.

    I will pay for my Mk XII to upgrade (in what looks like a long time and expensive dilithium gated system), but I think having to pay for something that should auto-upgrade, and something that WE BOUGHT IN THE KNOWLEDGE IT WOULD AUTOUPGRADE is plain wrong.

    Stop trying to nickel and dime us. We will leave and you will all be out of jobs.

    Thats why i dont buy into levelesss items sooner or later this type of bunk hap[pens and your left goin WTF??!!

    and having to get a whole new setup all over again.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Cryptic is commanded by Perfect World Interactive, known as the dirtiest publisher in free-to-play (I shouldn't use that term anymore now that it is soon illegal in the EU) so expect these things. Go to your consumer protection bureau, if your country has one (which is almost every country except USA)

    Please, pwe aren't even close. Some mechwarrior knockoff sold goldplated mechs for $500 each. And at least two review articles about ripoffs are listing class of clans as the biggest ripoff in free gaming.

    I'm not saying I agree with this move by cryptic, but hyperbole doesn't help get your point across.
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Considering Cryptic's "track history" on the matter, I'm gonna roll with the following:

    Establishment of track record:

    1. If you look at how items are "evaluated" in terms of power level - especially using various consoles and/or the effects of the [dmg] mod on weapons - the increase given by a mod = the increase given by a mark level. To wit - if Mk X white to Mk XII white goes up 10 damage points, and the [dmg] modifier on a weapon gives +10 damage, a Mk X [dmg] does the exact same damage as a basic Mk XII (white).

    2. On that note, we look to two known, early release, levelless items - specifically the Blue Phasers from the Connie, and the ToS type II hand phaser. Both of these weapons are blue quality, and top off at Mk X. Even when the game went all the way up to Mk XII. Applying the "evaluation equivalence math" to these items, the Mk X Blue = Mk XI Green = Mk XII White. Since Mk XII is (currently) the highest mark of item, the ToS weapons are considered "equal to basic high-end loot", and therefore still "competitive". Obviously, min-maxers, etc., would be driven to acquire actual Mk XII purples and will dispose of their levelless items...

    3. With the announcement that all lobi store items will be brought to Mk XII purple levels of strength - which translates to Mk XIV Green - the statement can be made that they are still "high end uncommon strength items" - and therefore "competitive" with the anticipated "needs Mk XIV white gear" content. Min-Maxers can eventually bypass said items for Mk XIV purples...

    4. There may be an actual announcement that Lobi gear will be treated much like Lobi ships, etc., in that if there are future upgrades to the level cap and therefore gear strength, Lobi items will be assured to increase in level to match that "competitive" nature - even though they won't be "top mark purple grade" items...

    Can't let the Lobi store completely bypass the grind now, can we Cryptic... (facepalm?)
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Technically the items haven't changed at all, as 50-60 is brand-new content. The Mk∞ items function identically as they did prior, which has nothing to do with new content.

    I don't see a problem, unless this is another entitlement thread.

    I wouldn't say entitlement, yet. More like the OP is jumping the gun, like everyone else finding something to complain about. I've seen multiple "dilithium sink" comments already, indicating that people actually believe that these items will end up costing them something to upgrade them. To date, with every update involving a significant change to equipment stats and functionality, the players who have stated the worst case scenarios have always been wrong. There's no reason to think the drama queens of STO are gonna get this one right either, especially since there is absolutely NO INFROMATION on the changes that will take place. Not that it would make any difference if there were. Players tend to blow everything out of proportion even when the facts are right there. Besides, Mk infinity items are hardly worth getting upset over, since they're novelty items at best.

    On another note, I would ask the OP, as I have asked others before, to not use terms that encompass the playerbase when making foolish statements about leaving the game and acting like you speak for all of us. You're not gonna leave, and even if you do, it would hardly be noticed by anyone of importance. The same is true of you not paying anymore money. This self-important attitude is more harmful to online games far more than anything the devs could do. People with this attitude think their opinion matters, when in fact its as insignificant as a single grain of sand on a beach. That's not to say that the rest of us matter any more, since each of us is just one out of millions.
  • mercurythefirstmercurythefirst Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Please, pwe aren't even close. Some mechwarrior knockoff sold goldplated mechs for $500 each. And at least two review articles about ripoffs are listing class of clans as the biggest ripoff in free gaming.

    I'm not saying I agree with this move by cryptic, but hyperbole doesn't help get your point across.

    Please, the example you mentioned may be wildly unethical, but PWE has the longest-standing history of consistent, unrelenting unethical practice. I mean, PWE is ancient in MMO F2P terms, their track record has accumulated layers of TRIBBLE so thick that a single event is not going to upset the balance in the slightest, even if they boxed their games in poached ivory and sold in-game titles for kidneys.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    bloodpact.net

    "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."

    -Michelangelo
  • neomodiousneomodious Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Unless I've missed something, it's only the Lobi stuff that's dropping the infinity mark.

    So... what about the in game level-less items that aren't from the Lobi store? Like the Ghostbusters gun or the Transphasic Cluster Torpedo?
  • otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The Breen cluster torp is a mission reward, same with the Ghostbusters gun, so those will probaly have to be upgraded.

    To the main point however. The thing about making Lobi level agnostic weapons not level past lvl 50 is not a good idea imho. In fact, it's a terrible idea. Here you have some nice level agnostic weapons that you so far have been able to use with no problems from start til end game.

    Now with DR, they will suddenly no longer be level agnostic weapons? Who in their right mind thought that would ever be a good idea?

    I see players using those weapons daily, so there must be quiet a few around. Making us use EC or dil is one thing, but real $ though...
  • atomictikiatomictiki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I just wanted to add ironically: Lobi store sale this weekend!

    lulz.
    Leave nerfing to the professionals.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    otowi wrote: »
    The Breen cluster torp is a mission reward, same with the Ghostbusters gun, so those will probaly have to be upgraded.

    To the main point however. The thing about making Lobi level agnostic weapons not level past lvl 50 is not a good idea imho. In fact, it's a terrible idea. Here you have some nice level agnostic weapons that you so far have been able to use with no problems from start til end game.

    Now with DR, they will suddenly no longer be level agnostic weapons? Who in their right mind thought that would ever be a good idea?

    I see players using those weapons daily, so there must be quiet a few around. Making us use EC or dil is one thing, but real $ though...

    Question: do you think people were buying these variety fun guns because they scaled with level or was it perhaps because of their variety fun gun aspect? Sure there was some extra utility in being able to equip an alt with lobi-store weapons while leveling but that's not going away just because cryptic isn't making any exceptions this time with the other upgrade system.

    Damned if they do (lobi weapon owners complain about having to upgrade), damned if they don't (rep weapon owners complain about not being given a free upgrade to XIV despite their investment.) What then is the value in whining?
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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