Yeah splitting words is totally going to make up for you not being able to contest the point.
Unofficial Star Trek. Just like the canon is also unofficial.
I call it fake because I know developer apologists like you can handle it and sure fake might be awfully close to "phony" and have negative implications, but, that's what they are.
Anyway I am sure even with your selective blinders on you've manage to spot the debate going on with people wanting to keep their real star trek ships am I right?
And the thing about that is, even if you did have a point, which you don't, obsolete gear, paying 15$ for some passive bonus no one asked for and losing your ship avatar marginalizes everything about the expansion.
Then you acting like they doing people some kind of favour well I hope you get forum mod for your efforts at least
So according to the OP, the stealth ships will remain at 10 consoles while the upgraded ships reach 11?
The stealth ships are automatic T6 but don't come with the extra console. I don't like this. They should have that extra console.
the info we've gotten so far is that t6 ships have 10 consoles and 13 boff abilities. t5u ships can have 11 consoles but only 12 boff abilities. the intel ship class have 10 consoles and 13 boff ablities, but they also have a new type of intel boff that has different skills then tac, sci, or eng.
Any wikipedia article written with that sort of "information" would not last 15 minutes.
I didn't set out to write a wikipedia article, and do not believe that it would be useful to do so at this point in time with so much relevant information still missing or untested. Authoritative language will have to wait until there is hard data to back it up.
Do I still have concerns? Yes, absolutely. At this point, either the T6 ships or the T5U ships could wind up getting the short end of the stick. I can only go by what appears to be Cryptic's intent at the moment, and that seems to be a very narrow (or non-existant) gap between T5U-11 console ships, and T6 ships. If the hard data doesn't back that up on release, I will make a new post explaining why and what can be done to fix it.
I believe I called my own optimism "stupid" in the post. I will add a line pointing out that it is analysis of information that is not in it's final state. Beyond that, I don't feel the need to have to respond to the "DEVS ARE STOOPID DOO-DOO HEADS" attitude that is common on every single official game forum ever.
Also, there is an error in your sig. It's addressed in my post.
Since the main thread is now 300 pages long, I thought it might be a good idea to summarize real quick. News and suggestions welcome, I will try to upgrade the OP when needed.
The following information is analysis of data on Tribble and in dev posts. Everything is subject to change.
Q:BUT CRYPTIC IS MEAN! THEY WANT MY MONEY! THEY HAVE MADE DECISIONS I DON'T LIKE! THEY'LL TRIBBLE IT UP!
Sort of, that's capitalism for you, I'm sure they have, and possibly. Now that we've gotten that out of the way . . . .
Why T6 ships at all?
The way the system is designed right now, all top ships have 12 BOFF powers and 10 console slots. Eventually, they will run out of combinations if we keep this system. Ships will be made that are virtual copies of each other, or they won't get made at all, and neither is good for the future of the game.
The goal of the T6 ships are to widen the amount of ship abilities, by giving them the ability to slot hybrid boffs, giving them ship traits, and updating old ships to have more than 10 console slots.
OMG will my ship be outdated junk?!?!?!
Probably not. All new content will continue to be balanced for T5, except for the new ultra-hard mode queues. As for PVP . . .well, we'll get to that in a moment. That's a complicated question.
OMFG why don't they just upgrade everything to full T6?!
They'll run into the same problem they have at T5: too many ships, not enough BOFF seat/console combos left unused. If simply upgrading everything to a new tier fixed the problem, then Fleet Ships would already have solved it, and there would not be a T6. There probably wouldn't be a level cap boost, either, so count your blessings.
What's the deal with the upgrade thing?
Upgraded ships will gain +1 console, and the ability to gain four levels in the new ship experience system. Each time you gain a ship level, your base stats will improve, and you will gain a new "ship trait", some of which look to be very powerful. Which console slot you gain isn't something you choose (imagine the balance issues), but Cryptic has signaled that what is up on Tribble is not final and they are willing to change their initial plans for this based on feedback (so get testing).
Fleet ships will retain their +1 console and shield and hull bonuses, thus giving them 11 consoles and superior stats.
T6 ships will have an additional 5th level of ship experience. This level will not have stat improvements, but will unlock a ship trait, which can be used on any ship. Therefore, if you have a T6 ship, all your T5U ships will have an effective fifth level, as well.
Upgrades are account-wide, unlike fleet ships (Cryptic, do this for fleet ships please).
What else do T6 ships get?
We are not 100% sure, as the new ships have not been openly tested. We know that T6 ships get a 13th BOFF power (we think) as opposed to the 12 T5U ships get, the ability to slot new "hybrid" doffs, and several other bonuses which are mostly related to a theme (the current ships are all "espionage" ships, which gain cloaking and "Active sensors"). They will not have fleet versions, and will have only 10 consoles, giving them an edge in versatility but slightly worse general performance than upgraded T5 fleet ships, lockbox ships, and 3-pack ships.
What about T6 Fleet ships?
There is no evidence right now that they exist, or that they are planning for them to exist in the near future. Forum rumors and Ferengi memes directed at certain Cryptic employees are not evidence.
Hybrid BOFFS?
BOFFS with a side career that unlocks special powers. The one premiering with Delta Rising is Intelligence. The powers seem to mostly revolve around control/debuffing/causing PVPers to freak out.
Most of them seem to be rather gimmicky for PVE, and more annoying than useful for PVP, but that's just my opinion. They've yet to be tested.
You can see the leaked powers here. Please ignore the "OMG AOE SUBNUC!!!!!", because the devs pop in later to point to the details, and it turns out it's actually kind of terrible.
An extra BOFF power?! Please tell me this means they won't all have an extra Commander BOFF seat for special super-OP spy powers!
They won't. T5 ships have 12 BOFF powers total, T6 will have 13. That could be either really impressive or a big letdown. It is too early to tell.
OMG I WON'T BE ABLE TO CLEAR INTELLIGENCE DEBUFFS WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE TEAM! T6 WILL RULE PVP, WE ARE DOOMED
You will be able to clear Intelligence debuffs without Intelligence Team.
Right now, PVPers seem to be waving between "T6 will rule the universe" and "T6 will be a completely useless joke". Maybe it's best to wait until T6 has seen some actual PVP before judging?
BUT A CONSOLE IS NOT AS GOOD AS A BOFF POWER!
That's really debatable. Keep in mind, not only are we getting a new console slot, but the actual value of console slots is probably going up with Delta Rising. Why? Because we will probably be able to upgrade fleet consoles.
You're not just measuring a BOFF ability against a useless click power, you're potentially measuring it against more hull, more shields, and a Mk XIV Fleet Vulnerability Locator Tactical Console. That is a much harder choice in terms of raw utility. I have never seen PVPers choose a situational ability you can only use every once in a while over more raw power, and I doubt I'll see it with Delta Rising.
Ew, it looks like a Defiant knocked up a stealth bomber. Will all future Starfleet ships look like that?
No. The designs of the new T6 ships are meant to reflect their role as stealthy spy ships. Future T6 ships will not have that particular role. Also, you will be able to change hull textures in the ship tailor, as always.
It means that future Starfleet ships may not have cloaks, as well.
Are T6 ships vastly superior to T5 Upgraded Ships?
I don't think that is the intent, no. The new ships are not being presented as super-dreadnoughts that will eat Scimitars and Odysseys for breakfast, but as small, nimble spy ships, meant to map out Borg space without being seen.
I believe the intent is for freebie ships to fall a bit behind, while Fleet ships, older lockbox ships, and store-only 10 console ships (like the flagships, or anything that has more than one version being sold as a pack, like the Vesta), will be on roughly the same level as the T6 ships.
T5U-11 console ships would have superior base stats to T6 ships and 11 consoles, while T6 ships have versatility in BOFF seating (with weaker hull, shields, and only 10 consoles, further impairing survivability and possibly DPS).
Gorngonzolla also talked about a small "delta" between the power of T6 ships and T5U ships, but it's not currently known if he was talking about ALL T5U ships, or just the upgraded free ships that are already on Tribble.
Until we've been able to test the new powers, examine the new ships' abilities, and such, we can't really know for sure. But right now, I predict the same cycle we always see with new ships: people will rush to the new shiny, try it, find out it's not an instant "I WIN" button, and then go back to whatever they actually enjoy.
My stupid optimism aside, we really need to know the following:
Are T5U 11 console ships intended to be the same tier as T6 ships? Slightly worse? Slightly better?
How will future updates work? Will we see any updates to T6, and T5-U?
Will all T6 ships be able to slot all Hybrid Boffs? For instance, will future non-spy ships be able to mount Intelligence boffs? Will spy ships be able to mount any new kinds of Hybrid Boffs?
Will we ever see an ability to mount Hybrid BOFFs on T5U ships?
Will we ever see Intelligence ground abilities as kit powers?
Unrelated but still relevant to Delta Rising:
What if all the new missions are single player only with no away team?
They aren't.
SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 15th-year journey
Vna res, una mens, unum cor et anima una. Cetera omnia, somnium est.
While not trying to be a "me too" I wanted to thank Shaanithegreen for putting this all together.
We are at a very early point int he Delta Rising release, and don't have many facts. Shaanithegreen took the time to write out the facts, pull details together and include his thoughts an options as separate from the details gleaned from Devs, etc.
Good post, keep it up. ; )
Chris
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Star Trek Online Enlistment Date: February 2010
Fleet website: www.stoacademy.com
Okay, so apparently I was wrong, and they announced T6 fleet ships!
Yeah, I saw that today and thought of you!
Console – Universal – Structural Integrity Field Siphon
This console can only be equipped on the Eclipse Intel Cruiser and the Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser, but can be put into any of their console slots. You may only equip one of these consoles.
And then later:
General
Q: Will Fleet variants of the Intel ships be available at Delta Rising launch?
A: Fleet Intel starships will be released sometime after Delta Rising launch.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Star Trek Online Enlistment Date: February 2010
Fleet website: www.stoacademy.com
Console Universal Structural Integrity Field Siphon
This console can only be equipped on the Eclipse Intel Cruiser and the Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser, but can be put into any of their console slots. You may only equip one of these consoles.
And then later:
General
Q: Will Fleet variants of the Intel ships be available at Delta Rising launch?
A: Fleet Intel starships will be released sometime after Delta Rising launch.
I'm currently trying to dig up info on what this might mean for balance.
Needless to say, if it means what it says, I am not happy. That completely breaks the new system.
Comments
Unofficial Star Trek. Just like the canon is also unofficial.
I call it fake because I know developer apologists like you can handle it and sure fake might be awfully close to "phony" and have negative implications, but, that's what they are.
Anyway I am sure even with your selective blinders on you've manage to spot the debate going on with people wanting to keep their real star trek ships am I right?
And the thing about that is, even if you did have a point, which you don't, obsolete gear, paying 15$ for some passive bonus no one asked for and losing your ship avatar marginalizes everything about the expansion.
Then you acting like they doing people some kind of favour well I hope you get forum mod for your efforts at least
I didn't set out to write a wikipedia article, and do not believe that it would be useful to do so at this point in time with so much relevant information still missing or untested. Authoritative language will have to wait until there is hard data to back it up.
Do I still have concerns? Yes, absolutely. At this point, either the T6 ships or the T5U ships could wind up getting the short end of the stick. I can only go by what appears to be Cryptic's intent at the moment, and that seems to be a very narrow (or non-existant) gap between T5U-11 console ships, and T6 ships. If the hard data doesn't back that up on release, I will make a new post explaining why and what can be done to fix it.
I believe I called my own optimism "stupid" in the post. I will add a line pointing out that it is analysis of information that is not in it's final state. Beyond that, I don't feel the need to have to respond to the "DEVS ARE STOOPID DOO-DOO HEADS" attitude that is common on every single official game forum ever.
Also, there is an error in your sig. It's addressed in my post.
That is much more likely than Fleet T6 ships. Lockbox ships will no-doubt continue to be impressive, no matter what happens.
We are at a very early point int he Delta Rising release, and don't have many facts. Shaanithegreen took the time to write out the facts, pull details together and include his thoughts an options as separate from the details gleaned from Devs, etc.
Good post, keep it up. ; )
Chris
Star Trek Online Enlistment Date: February 2010
Fleet website: www.stoacademy.com
No idea what that means in terms of balance with T5U . . . it seems to throw the entire thing out the window.
I suggest not buying the new Delta Pack until we have details.
Yeah, I saw that today and thought of you!
Console – Universal – Structural Integrity Field Siphon
This console can only be equipped on the Eclipse Intel Cruiser and the Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser, but can be put into any of their console slots. You may only equip one of these consoles.
And then later:
General
Q: Will Fleet variants of the Intel ships be available at Delta Rising launch?
A: Fleet Intel starships will be released sometime after Delta Rising launch.
Star Trek Online Enlistment Date: February 2010
Fleet website: www.stoacademy.com
I'm currently trying to dig up info on what this might mean for balance.
Needless to say, if it means what it says, I am not happy. That completely breaks the new system.