I think you're confusing "blind faith" with skepticism and reasonable expectations.
New toys to play with.
That's why they can gain the power levels of tier 6 ships then as T5u ships.
I'm not sure what your point with all this is regardless.
You're trying to have reasonable expectations with an MMO? That's priceless. Here's one for ya. On world of tanks they are putting in a new Light tank line. Right now at the current end of the Line I have an M24 Chaffee. It took me 55,000 Xp to grind to it, and about another 20XP to elite it.
Short and skinny is they are stripping the M24 and down grading it, then the next tier up tier 6, they are basically putting the current tank I have now with the exact same turret, weapon, engine, and radio at tier 6.
They are making me REGRIND that same tank, pay for it, re-equip it then grind again for the next tank up.
Now you want to talk about rip-offs? I think WoT has STO beat buddy.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Is it really? Do we have evidence yet that at T5U will be able to truely be competitive with T6? Or is this just you trying to convince yourself that you didnt waste your money on ships that are no longer relevant at Endgame?
I'm rich so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other .....also endgame is lol easy if they beef up end game and make it super hard with ships and armor that need to be repaired you all will cry foul!! ......but I think it's coming ......be ready .....better grab a box of tissues
You're trying to have reasonable expectations with an MMO? That's priceless. Here's one for ya. On world of tanks they are putting in a new Light tank line. Right now at the current end of the Line I have an M24 Chaffee. It took me 55,000 Xp to grind to it, and about another 20XP to elite it.
Short and skinny is they are stripping the M24 and down grading it, then the next tier up tier 6, they are basically putting the current tank I have now with the exact same turret, weapon, engine, and radio at tier 6.
They are making me REGRIND that same tank, pay for it, re-equip it then grind again for the next tank up.
Now you want to talk about rip-offs? I think WoT has STO beat buddy.
I don't think we're on the same page here on the definition of "reasonable expectations".
I'm not referring to reasonable expectations in regards to player preferences or perceived ideologies of 'fairness', I'm talking about reasonable expectations in regards to what is likely or unlikely to happen. For instance, something very unreasonably pricey for us players could have a reasonable chance of happening. The second context of 'reasonable' in that sentence was what I was using.
STB guys I fly with all the time just did Star Base 24 on elite with tier 2s, and another with tier 1s! Had fun doing it too!
this is hardly the point.. I understand you can have fun doing dopey things like taking shuttles into elite mode stuff or what not..
but, that is player choice. I sometimes roll out my t1 Miranda just for kicks.. but I don't play in it full time.
back before there was a t5 defient, I rolled with the t4. and it was ok. half the time it outclassed, half the time it was outclassed. I am a very easy going guy, its how out of all my friends who played this game I am the last standing in the game (well up to last night lol) but, im not an elitist, and im not saying everything should be handed to me.. but as someone who has easily spent close to 1k in this game, I want my value.. half of my purchases are now devalued. weather comsic or yourself think it is or isn't, is besides the point.. when you take something that was premium, and add purchase cost to it, and then make it substandard to other things, that is a devalue.
this should have worked like the fleet system, where you could upgrade almost all the ships to top endgame status.. like I said, im not elitist, but, I do like to pull the numbers I should be. its part of playing a game.. most people want to get better, and improve.. its why people do the grind, usually to add a new piece of equipment to their ship that in some way elevates them to a new level.
also, part of my problem with the t5-u t6 is that they are releasing new mechanics, and they are not available to ships people "want" to play as.. for me, its not a matter of not wanting to purchase a new ship, if the niagra came out at t6 (example only, I know it wouldn't be t6) I would purchase it same day... its about me wanting to fly the space avatar I want, that I have purchased, that I have come to love. instead, I am being gated from new, very interesting and exciting new game mechanics, because I simply do not like the new ships. (and I will say, I am a canon ship player only, there has yet to be a cryptic design that I have liked, the Tahoe is one of the only non canon designs I am interested in).
one of the funniest things I get a crack up at, is the fact that the t5-u cannot get to mastery ten.. I guess no crew ever, was able to fully master a ship before t6.. I guess geordi and data only had a faint idea as to the enterprises full potential.. lol..
and as far as the specialists seat goes.. I guess Starfleet had lower standards of crewing a ship before t6 came around..
the point of the rage is that the iconic vessels are being devalued. further more, what happens next year when they further push t6 up the latter. this game is based around a world that already existed, people fell in love with star trek, and thus have attachments to vessels, and other parts of the show.. this move to separate established star trek from the game, seems bold to me.
I have said this a few times now.. its not that they made t6 vessels.. its that my purchases are now devalued, further more.. whatmakes my c store ship less of a value than say a lockbox ship.. I can understand a lobi ship, as you have to open a certain amount of boxes to get the proper lobi, but some people get the lockbox ships in their first 10 box openings.. infact. most people who have lockbox ships didn't even open boxes for them, they get them off the exchange..
lets take the galaxy line for example here. I had to buy like 3 versions (which is now in a bundle) to get the whole package (console, ship, and skins). then, I had to spend 500 zen upgrading to a fleet version after I had already spent all my ingame resources getting the fleet to the holding level to get it. now im gonna be forced to spend another 5 or 10 dollars on it to make it subpar to endgame standards (meaning t6 ships).. ummmmmm no. cryptic collectively has lost there mind.. this is not a good business decision from my point of view.. all of you who do not care about canon, or what vessel you are flying, or seem to have your nose up cryptic/pwe's butt will not see why we are pissed.
The only people who really need the "best of the best" are PvPers, collectors/completists, and egomaniacs.
My Fleet has literally taken T3 ships into ESTFs and won. It is what we do on Fleet nights - outclassed ESTF runs. We used to do T1 Exploration runs, but we cannot do those any more.
So the real question is will we need T6 ships do to the upcoming content, or do we need T6 ships because our ego demand we get them? My bet is that I will be able to do the upcoming content with my T5.5 ship, but only time will tell.
But even then I do plan on buying a T6 or two, and probably upgrading some of my T5.5s. Not all of them, but some of them. I do not really care about the costs. As I came to realize a long time ago: I spend more money a month at Starbucks buying latte and scones then I do on the game. I do not mind drop $20-$30.00 a month on a game if I feel it is worthwhile to me. I spend far more then that on other hobbies.
cosmic, you never cease to amaze me. so by your logic, cryptic shouldn't even bother making new ships and equipment.. I mean, if we are all egomaniacs..
you know, when I play monopoly, I just buy one place, cause technically I can play with just one land owned..
when I play Pictionary, I draw one line, because technically you can play with only one line drawn..
when I play first person shooters, I play the whole time with the tv turned around, because technically you can play without looking..
and when I play mmo's I guess I shouldn't even level, because there is no reason to.. I mean, why spend the time and money, if I can just zip around and do nothing...
as far as the money, I do not mind dropping money either, but I want value for it.. there is no value in this system.. the t6 ships are hideous, the iconic "star trek" ships are not worth the upgrade. and don't argue it, because you just said we are going to be able to play the endgame with teir 1, 2, and 3 ships..
and no, the need to play a t6 ships isn't just because it is a new shiney, or more powerfull, it has new features to the game.. for nearly 5 years I have been playing with the same boff seatings/classes/ and layouts.. they are finally adding on to that (which should have happened way earlier) and now it is being gated to possibly 3 ships on the fed side (I say fed as I play fed). that is not fair.. that is not trying to make money, but skinning the players... they could have easily made the upgrade system include the new features, still made money on them, and kept the value of the previously released ships..
after all, cryptic themselves have said that starships are just a frame, you can upgrade the technology in them (in their defense of adding the excelsior and other old old ships to the game at high levels.. ) its just a space frame right? cryptic is tripping all over themselves on this one.
The only people who really need the "best of the best" are PvPers, collectors/completists, and egomaniacs.
My Fleet has literally taken T3 ships into ESTFs and won. It is what we do on Fleet nights - outclassed ESTF runs. We used to do T1 Exploration runs, but we cannot do those any more.
So the real question is will we need T6 ships do to the upcoming content, or do we need T6 ships because our ego demand we get them? My bet is that I will be able to do the upcoming content with my T5.5 ship, but only time will tell.
But even then I do plan on buying a T6 or two, and probably upgrading some of my T5.5s. Not all of them, but some of them. I do not really care about the costs. As I came to realize a long time ago: I spend more money a month at Starbucks buying latte and scones then I do on the game. I do not mind drop $20-$30.00 a month on a game if I feel it is worthwhile to me. I spend far more then that on other hobbies.
All of you keep forgetting that new things, specially ships, are the target number 1 of rich people, kids and people who are the ones giving cryptic more reasons to do nothing except releasing new and better stuff. Money.
I am a player who never wanted the best of the best. When i started playing, 2 years ago, i knew the omega reputation was the best, and still i didnt even bother to do it on more than 2 toons. I have 10 characters and 75% of em are only fited with blue/purple gear, but most of em just regular gear, not even reputation gear or fleet gear. Because all my ships are fited with stuff i enjoy, not stuff that is considered the best in the game. Unfortunately a massive ammount of dumb players thinks the opposite, that a game means that you have to adquire the best of the best no matter what, if you dont do that, you are not "enjoying" the game. And who are the people with that limited point of view, rich people (obviously they dont need to be worry to waste ridiculous ammount of money every month), kids, and people who never cared about the future of the game. Sadly, these ammount of players are the base of cryptic's incomes, and thats the only reason cryptic make stupid decisions over and over again. Because the only thing that matters to em is the money. So, if these players are happy, they are happy. So, the problem is not that we are forced to adquire a better ship (i wont) the problem is, the terrible management decisions cryptic is doing just because of these rich players that are willing to throw away money and money and money to keep this game drawning, and as i said, since most of em are kids, they are not aware the harm they are doing to this game. So, cryptic will always do things based on adquiring money, not based of the enjoyment of the players or the health of the game. They will buy anything because they can, period. Even if it is not necessary. Its time some of you actually understand this, because some complainings are just stupid, seriously.
cosmic, you never cease to amaze me. so by your logic, cryptic shouldn't even bother making new ships and equipment.. I mean, if we are all egomaniacs..
No, I think my point was very clear that people should actually wait and see if they need the upgrade before getting it. Buying it because it is the new shiny thing or because you want to be cool is just stupid.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
This just goes to show that you can never make everyone happy. They release the t6 announcement, everyone screams doom. The announce the bug ship is a free upgrade, everyone is mad. The release a massive list of free upgrades and minor paid upgrades, still everyone screams doom. It's a business, they have to make decisions that won't totally kill them yet also make money to continue developing the game. They're offering exactly what everyone wanted, upgradable system to tier 6.
Again, totally wrong lol. What people wanted is a system to upgrade old ships to another tier. Not NEW SHIPS. NOBODY WANTED NEW SHIPS. Period. The only thing people wanted is a system (i thought it was going to be implemented in the recently revamped crafting system, for example) allowing your ships to be upgraded. Thats all. New ships?? come on... zzzzz. I mean, of course the cool thing and the complicated thing will be to implement this system, thats the reason cryptic just decided to release new ships and make a little crappy upgrade system just "in case". Because that is faster and it will not cost too much efforts.
This game is far from a business, in a business the customers are being taking care, even if they are paying alot of money for watever it is. In STO players never take attention. All the things cryptic does are not related to the player requests. All the things cryptic does are focused to gain even more money without taking in consideration the player base. And i should not be saying this to you, since this is something happening since ages ago. Its you the one that dont have a clue how cryptic is doing things. People is mad because every decision cryptic makes, its a bad one. And it is a bad one, because again, they can only think in 1 thing "money". And a good company will never do that. There must be always a balance, but of course "balance" is a word out of cryptic's vocabulary.
cosmic, you never cease to amaze me. so by your logic, cryptic shouldn't even bother making new ships and equipment.. I mean, if we are all egomaniacs..
They can still make new MKXII equpiment. So? we need yes or yes new MKIV equipment?? why??? is out there any enemie that is not possible to kill with common mkX gear?? xD. I mean, where is the sense on that?
Still people dont get it. We dont want unnecessary new things. We never wanted a new ESD. We never wanted a revamped doff system. We wanted an improved crafting system, not , erm something that looks more like a buy list. We never wanted exploration clusters to be removed, just revamped. And still, they are gone. I could go on.
Players are asking for an upgrade system since the beginnings of times, and what people get? just a new tier of ships and a little upgrade system just in case. Not a focused system to develop upgraded ships.
The only reason we have new dumb ships and we will have MKXIV equipment is because people will buy it and use it, no matter if it is not necessary at all. And because that will mean money for cryptic. Thats the only reason. And based on this premise, all bad decisions are made.
"Nobody wanted new ships"? Apart from the many many people who, like myself, love new ships maybe? Take care when posting not to claim that you represent EVERYBODY who plays the game there.
As to T6, sure I expect them to be "better" in some way. Am I upset by this? No not really. For a while now the "best ship" has supposedly been the Scimitar, allegedly outclassing every other ship. Yet what ship do I use the most? My Fleet Galaxy X Dreadnought, a ship considered nowhere near as good. I chose this ship before my Scimitar, my Fleet Avenger, etc etc etc. Am I upset that there is or are ships considered "better" in the game? Heck no, because the simple truth is it still is a brilliant ship that I enjoy lots.
Will I upgrade it to T5U? Probably. Will I buy any T6 ships? More than likely. Am I upset by this? No not really, I never expected the ships I bought to always be the latest and greatest in the game, this is an MMO after all, change happens and is why folks don't play it through once then shelve it.... Compare STO to single player games released at the same time, and look at how many people who bought those single player games are still playing. New content, including newer and better "gear" is what keeps MMOs alive and kicking years after release.
Will STO lose a few players to this? Probably, but more than likely it's gain a heck of a lot more players than it loses....
No, I think my point was very clear that people should actually wait and see if they need the upgrade before getting it. Buying it because it is the new shiny thing or because you want to be cool is just stupid.
and you completely missed my point, that this isn't just an extra console and stats, but new game mechanics that are being gated..
what I mean by gated is, it is being included on things that for most is something they make decisions about purley on looks.. that is not a good way to gate the content. my ship is my avatar in space.. I am not choosing to not get a t6 ship because of money, I am choosing it because I wish to continue using my defiant, or my intrepid, or my galaxy class to name a few. because that is the "look" I like..
in world of ********, they may make changes to a class, but they never strong arm you into changing your race. they never said, oh, well you cant be a night elf anymore.. if you want to continue being said class, you have to become an orc... that would be silly, which is what is happening here..
the whole point of the fleet ship system, was to get the ships (avatars) people wanted at endgame and viable.. sure, the ships may still be viable, but to play them I will miss out on a completely new facet to the game.. all because I prefer one skin over another.
I would have much rather paid 30-60 bucks to unlock all of the x2 features, than to have all my previous purchases devalued..
further more. lets use wow again, when I purchase a pet, or a mount off the blizz store, everytime the endgame bar is raised (so mount speed in this case) my purchased mounts speed is increased.. they realize I have paid money for it, and honor that by keeping it top notch at endgame.
that is not happening here. i said this yesterday, i would much rather give up the 11th console slot on my t5-u, and gain access to the 2 new boff seatings. that is a major thing, and is being gated to only those who like the looks of the new ships.. that is not fair in any way shape or form... also, would it have killed them to make a t6 upgrade for all ships that are currently at endgame.. they would still make money.. i wouldn't mind spending a few bucks to upgrade my t5 vessels if the upgrade was worth it. in this case its not.. it really isn't.. not as long as t6 ships loom above them..
again, this is the reason so many devs said no to t6 ships for so long.. they knew this would be a problem... i don't know how or why this is happening..
this is hardly the point.. I understand you can have fun doing dopey things like taking shuttles into elite mode stuff or what not..
but, that is player choice. I sometimes roll out my t1 Miranda just for kicks.. but I don't play in it full time.
back before there was a t5 defient, I rolled with the t4. and it was ok. half the time it outclassed, half the time it was outclassed. I am a very easy going guy, its how out of all my friends who played this game I am the last standing in the game (well up to last night lol) but, im not an elitist, and im not saying everything should be handed to me.. but as someone who has easily spent close to 1k in this game, I want my value.. half of my purchases are now devalued. weather comsic or yourself think it is or isn't, is besides the point.. when you take something that was premium, and add purchase cost to it, and then make it substandard to other things, that is a devalue.
this should have worked like the fleet system, where you could upgrade almost all the ships to top endgame status.. like I said, im not elitist, but, I do like to pull the numbers I should be. its part of playing a game.. most people want to get better, and improve.. its why people do the grind, usually to add a new piece of equipment to their ship that in some way elevates them to a new level.
also, part of my problem with the t5-u t6 is that they are releasing new mechanics, and they are not available to ships people "want" to play as.. for me, its not a matter of not wanting to purchase a new ship, if the niagra came out at t6 (example only, I know it wouldn't be t6) I would purchase it same day... its about me wanting to fly the space avatar I want, that I have purchased, that I have come to love. instead, I am being gated from new, very interesting and exciting new game mechanics, because I simply do not like the new ships. (and I will say, I am a canon ship player only, there has yet to be a cryptic design that I have liked, the Tahoe is one of the only non canon designs I am interested in).
one of the funniest things I get a crack up at, is the fact that the t5-u cannot get to mastery ten.. I guess no crew ever, was able to fully master a ship before t6.. I guess geordi and data only had a faint idea as to the enterprises full potential.. lol..
and as far as the specialists seat goes.. I guess Starfleet had lower standards of crewing a ship before t6 came around..
the point of the rage is that the iconic vessels are being devalued. further more, what happens next year when they further push t6 up the latter. this game is based around a world that already existed, people fell in love with star trek, and thus have attachments to vessels, and other parts of the show.. this move to separate established star trek from the game, seems bold to me.
I have said this a few times now.. its not that they made t6 vessels.. its that my purchases are now devalued, further more.. whatmakes my c store ship less of a value than say a lockbox ship.. I can understand a lobi ship, as you have to open a certain amount of boxes to get the proper lobi, but some people get the lockbox ships in their first 10 box openings.. infact. most people who have lockbox ships didn't even open boxes for them, they get them off the exchange..
lets take the galaxy line for example here. I had to buy like 3 versions (which is now in a bundle) to get the whole package (console, ship, and skins). then, I had to spend 500 zen upgrading to a fleet version after I had already spent all my ingame resources getting the fleet to the holding level to get it. now im gonna be forced to spend another 5 or 10 dollars on it to make it subpar to endgame standards (meaning t6 ships).. ummmmmm no. cryptic collectively has lost there mind.. this is not a good business decision from my point of view.. all of you who do not care about canon, or what vessel you are flying, or seem to have your nose up cryptic/pwe's butt will not see why we are pissed.
This is what happens in MMO's friend. This was bound to happen sooner or later. That's the problem when you become too attached to something.
Am I going to be ticked my avenger isn't top of the line anymore? Yes I am. But this is what happens in business.
You see many players like yourself seen to think that gaming companies put out awesome games to please the players. No they put out games to make money. This is a money making scheme. They put out something addicting like star trek then do things like put out tier 5 ships, many iconic that people want so badly. They gave you what 4 years with it? That's longer than most games, now the march of time is upon us.
This was an inevitably. It was coming sooner or later, most just buried their heads in the sand and thought otherwise.
Well you got two choices or well 3.
1. You can continue to use your ship as is and you can probably do all the content except the newer ESTFs that are probably coming.
2. Go to T5U and still use your ship at end game, but it won't ever be the cutting edge like tier 6.
3. Get a tier 6.
Those are the choices here people. Again that long essay did not answer my basic question.
And I'll make it loud and clear for you.
WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A TIER 6 SHIP IF THEIR 5 SHIPS COULD BE UPGRADED TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Yes another tier 6 ship thread but this is something I feel NOBODY is asking besides me.
Yes many are ticked (me included) about the whole tier 5U thing. But I asked people this WEEKS ago when the tier 6 ships were first announced and everybody just didn't want to listen or simply have blind faith that their precious tier 5 ships wouldn't be outclassed.
So let me ask this again and it's a real simple question.
What would be the point of tier 6 ships if they were not a cut above or stronger in some way?
Seriously people what's the point?
When you answer that question like I did, you'll see that tier 5 ships were NEVER going to be as strong as tier 6.
ever since they announced t-6s to be released ive answered that question and have been outragged since.
and the fact sooner or later if you dont have the t-6 your not going to be comeptitive and you will have to get a t-6 or box/lobi/event ship.
sooner or later the difficulty of ESTFs will be increased when the amount of T-6s make the current difficulty way to easy to complete.
at that point even the t-5u will be obsolete and you will have to get a t-6 regardless.
again, this is the reason so many devs said no to t6 ships for so long.. they knew this would be a problem... i don't know how or why this is happening..
So let me say it again, because apparently in your mad-rush to write novels you do not read words:
WAIT AND SEE IF YOU CAN DO THE NEW CONTENT IN YOUR EXISTING T5.5 SHIP BEFORE DECIDING YOU NEED TO GET A T6. DO NOT BUY IT SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS NEW AND YOU THINK YOU NEED TO BUY IT!
As that all that difficult to understand?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
So let me say it again, because apparently in your mad-rush to write novels you do not read words:
WAIT AND SEE IF YOU CAN DO THE NEW CONTENT IN YOUR EXISTING T5.5 SHIP BEFORE DECIDING YOU NEED TO GET A T6. DO NOT BUY IT SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS NEW AND YOU THINK YOU NEED TO BUY IT!
As that all that difficult to understand?
Oh come on. Lets do some logical reasoning. If they are going to put out stronger ships but not make stronger content that goes back to:
Why put out a tier 6 ships when a tier 5 fleet ship can do the job with no upgrades.
Come on some deductive reasoning here!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I wouldn't go so far as to say "no one wanted new ships" as I'm sure there are those out there who want them.
I will agree that the Upgrade system isn't the greatest IMO. At least to me, there shouldn't be a T5-U. When you upgrade, it should go from T5 to T6 completely, not piecemeal. Cryptic can price this however they see fit, and if you already own a particular ship, you get some level of discount on the upgrade (like how Fleet Modules work). This allows those who want to keep their existing ship and those who want to buy the new designs can buy them. Cryptic makes money in any case.
Not as much as forcing people to break down and fork out 25-30 bucks to have the latest and greatest.
Reason they are doing tier 5U.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Oh come on. Lets do some logical reasoning. If they are going to put out stronger ships but not make stronger content that goes back to:
Why put out a tier 6 ships when a tier 5 fleet ship can do the job with no upgrades.
Come on some deductive reasoning here!
Did they make the ESTFs harder when they added T5.5 ships to the game? No - and now people are doing ESTFs in T3 and T4 ships due to power creep.
Logical reasoning tells me Cryptic does not do hard content and that is not going to change.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I am happy with my Risan LXC (aka battleship), but T6 version would sport what? Improvements? I hope it doesn't mean I have to do R&D on it sounds like this is going to be like the prior online game had Retrofit Module to upgrade ships. But using such module would take a very long time to get a ship to tier 5 was their highest and 32 million x 4 in credits out to be 128 million. Of course a Tier 5 ship would get a new skin change also. I just hope STO doesn't go that path. Should have kept things the way they were prior 8.5.
Sure, now how about you reference your source stating that there wont be "stronger" content added? You wont find any, they don't exist.
Raging with only half formed ideas of what will and wont be, as opposed to facts, you should value the health of your heart more than that.
The thing is that its common sense that with the addition of t-6s that the contents difficulty will be increased either with delta rising or at a later date but either way its will happen.
if someone sees a road being built to a town and the construction crew says its not going there do you blindly beleive them?
the road map is clear where this is going one has to be a fool not to see what is going to happen going forward.
Did they make the ESTFs harder when they added T5.5 ships to the game? No - and now people are doing ESTFs in T3 and T4 ships due to power creep.
Logical reasoning tells me Cryptic does not do hard content and that is not going to change.
We shall see won't we. Again why put out a tier 6 ship if a tier 5 or 5u can do the job? Why not have harder content if you're trying to drive players to get the latest and greatest?
Thing about money grabs, you gotta force them to do so. The best way is to make stronger eSTFS that cannot be done easily with tier 5 ships.
Only solution.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Did they make the ESTFs harder when they added T5.5 ships to the game? No - and now people are doing ESTFs in T3 and T4 ships due to power creep.
Logical reasoning tells me Cryptic does not do hard content and that is not going to change.
Cryptic DO make harder content, quite regularly. Sadly within days of them adding it to the game the forum is filled with cries of "It's too hard! Make it easier!", followed in short order by Cryptic doing just that.
Just look at the CE Elite STF. When they first re-released it with the mirror rifts at the same time, it actually presented a challenge, where an un-coridinated team would wipe repeatedly and the entity would heal back to full health from 25% health. Forum tears later, we got the non-event CE revamp with NO mirror rifts and an entity that was just a HP monster. Even the current event CE elite is hardly any sort of challenge, I should sit and 7-9km and shoot everything....
Cryptic CAN made difficult content, sadly though actions would suggest that their data then tells them that most players don't actually want difficult content, they just want to feel awesome.
This is what happens in MMO's friend. This was bound to happen sooner or later. That's the problem when you become too attached to something.
Am I going to be ticked my avenger isn't top of the line anymore? Yes I am. But this is what happens in business.
You see many players like yourself seen to think that gaming companies put out awesome games to please the players. No they put out games to make money. This is a money making scheme. They put out something addicting like star trek then do things like put out tier 5 ships, many iconic that people want so badly. They gave you what 4 years with it? That's longer than most games, now the march of time is upon us.
This was an inevitably. It was coming sooner or later, most just buried their heads in the sand and thought otherwise.
Well you got two choices or well 3.
1. You can continue to use your ship as is and you can probably do all the content except the newer ESTFs that are probably coming.
2. Go to T5U and still use your ship at end game, but it won't ever be the cutting edge like tier 6.
3. Get a tier 6.
Those are the choices here people. Again that long essay did not answer my basic question.
And I'll make it loud and clear for you.
WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A TIER 6 SHIP IF THEIR 5 SHIPS COULD BE UPGRADED TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING?
hardly the point.. everyone keeps skipping over themeat and potatos of my posts.. lol.. i love when people pick and choose what to respond to..
and there is no point for t6, they (the devs) had said for the longest time it wasn't going to happen. they were against it, and all of asudden its here and causeing all the grief they wanted to avoid in the past..
i take choice 4, as i already have, which is quit...
don't lecture me about mmo's i have played pretty much all of them. some longer than others.. but like i responded to cosmic.. ships are not just a piece of equipment, they are your avatar in space. it would be like saying they are releasing stronger races, and that all the old races you could play as are now inferior. when other mmo's elevate the level cap, they balance the new races or classes (for the most part) with the existing races and classes. in delta rising, they are not doing that. they are simply saying, oh, well you want to play the new interesting features, well tough, you have to buy a t6 to do that. "f" that. i would gladly pay for an upgrade of my ships to t6.. who is that hurting.. they still make money, i get the ship i want.. and no one else should care what ship im flying..
this whole thing just seems off to me.. there was no need for a t6, and beyond that, no need to not elevate the other ships to full t6 status.. i mean, how much are they losing if they charge an upgrade cost... people who like the new ships will still buy them, people are are interested in playing the old ships, will still upgrade, and the game would have been balanced, and fair, i would have retained my purchase value...
its not about money to me.. i cant make that clear enough, its about value, respect, and fairness. i feel as i am being disrespected for being a fan of the ship (avatar) i love. i don't want to fly any of those hideous t6 ships i have seen so far, and im only guessing its gonna get worse from here on out. this decision really showcases cryptic/pwe's inability to properly maintain, and run a game. and their business practices are pretty lame too.
So let me say it again, because apparently in your mad-rush to write novels you do not read words:
WAIT AND SEE IF YOU CAN DO THE NEW CONTENT IN YOUR EXISTING T5.5 SHIP BEFORE DECIDING YOU NEED TO GET A T6. DO NOT BUY IT SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS NEW AND YOU THINK YOU NEED TO BUY IT!
As that all that difficult to understand?
i hear you, i already know i can probably do anything that comes out in a t1 vessel, cryptic is not exactly stellar at making content, and even less so at making engaging content.
what my argument is and has been, is that i have been dreaming of getting new boffs types for a long time, i have stated that over the last few years.. and now its being gated.. i will not stand for that.
sorry for the novels, i tend to want to make sure everyone knows where im coming from.. if i write something short, the trolls get in on it.. if you keep it long winded, they just skip over it.. not to mention, no one usually misunderstands me.. lol.
Comments
You're trying to have reasonable expectations with an MMO?
Short and skinny is they are stripping the M24 and down grading it, then the next tier up tier 6, they are basically putting the current tank I have now with the exact same turret, weapon, engine, and radio at tier 6.
They are making me REGRIND that same tank, pay for it, re-equip it then grind again for the next tank up.
Now you want to talk about rip-offs? I think WoT has STO beat buddy.
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I'm rich so it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other .....also endgame is lol easy if they beef up end game and make it super hard with ships and armor that need to be repaired you all will cry foul!! ......but I think it's coming ......be ready .....better grab a box of tissues
Indeed. Or they would have to restrict Tier6 ships to tier 6 content.
I'm not referring to reasonable expectations in regards to player preferences or perceived ideologies of 'fairness', I'm talking about reasonable expectations in regards to what is likely or unlikely to happen. For instance, something very unreasonably pricey for us players could have a reasonable chance of happening. The second context of 'reasonable' in that sentence was what I was using.
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this is hardly the point.. I understand you can have fun doing dopey things like taking shuttles into elite mode stuff or what not..
but, that is player choice. I sometimes roll out my t1 Miranda just for kicks.. but I don't play in it full time.
back before there was a t5 defient, I rolled with the t4. and it was ok. half the time it outclassed, half the time it was outclassed. I am a very easy going guy, its how out of all my friends who played this game I am the last standing in the game (well up to last night lol) but, im not an elitist, and im not saying everything should be handed to me.. but as someone who has easily spent close to 1k in this game, I want my value.. half of my purchases are now devalued. weather comsic or yourself think it is or isn't, is besides the point.. when you take something that was premium, and add purchase cost to it, and then make it substandard to other things, that is a devalue.
this should have worked like the fleet system, where you could upgrade almost all the ships to top endgame status.. like I said, im not elitist, but, I do like to pull the numbers I should be. its part of playing a game.. most people want to get better, and improve.. its why people do the grind, usually to add a new piece of equipment to their ship that in some way elevates them to a new level.
also, part of my problem with the t5-u t6 is that they are releasing new mechanics, and they are not available to ships people "want" to play as.. for me, its not a matter of not wanting to purchase a new ship, if the niagra came out at t6 (example only, I know it wouldn't be t6) I would purchase it same day... its about me wanting to fly the space avatar I want, that I have purchased, that I have come to love. instead, I am being gated from new, very interesting and exciting new game mechanics, because I simply do not like the new ships. (and I will say, I am a canon ship player only, there has yet to be a cryptic design that I have liked, the Tahoe is one of the only non canon designs I am interested in).
one of the funniest things I get a crack up at, is the fact that the t5-u cannot get to mastery ten.. I guess no crew ever, was able to fully master a ship before t6.. I guess geordi and data only had a faint idea as to the enterprises full potential.. lol..
and as far as the specialists seat goes.. I guess Starfleet had lower standards of crewing a ship before t6 came around..
the point of the rage is that the iconic vessels are being devalued. further more, what happens next year when they further push t6 up the latter. this game is based around a world that already existed, people fell in love with star trek, and thus have attachments to vessels, and other parts of the show.. this move to separate established star trek from the game, seems bold to me.
I have said this a few times now.. its not that they made t6 vessels.. its that my purchases are now devalued, further more.. whatmakes my c store ship less of a value than say a lockbox ship.. I can understand a lobi ship, as you have to open a certain amount of boxes to get the proper lobi, but some people get the lockbox ships in their first 10 box openings.. infact. most people who have lockbox ships didn't even open boxes for them, they get them off the exchange..
lets take the galaxy line for example here. I had to buy like 3 versions (which is now in a bundle) to get the whole package (console, ship, and skins). then, I had to spend 500 zen upgrading to a fleet version after I had already spent all my ingame resources getting the fleet to the holding level to get it. now im gonna be forced to spend another 5 or 10 dollars on it to make it subpar to endgame standards (meaning t6 ships).. ummmmmm no. cryptic collectively has lost there mind.. this is not a good business decision from my point of view.. all of you who do not care about canon, or what vessel you are flying, or seem to have your nose up cryptic/pwe's butt will not see why we are pissed.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
cosmic, you never cease to amaze me. so by your logic, cryptic shouldn't even bother making new ships and equipment.. I mean, if we are all egomaniacs..
you know, when I play monopoly, I just buy one place, cause technically I can play with just one land owned..
when I play Pictionary, I draw one line, because technically you can play with only one line drawn..
when I play first person shooters, I play the whole time with the tv turned around, because technically you can play without looking..
and when I play mmo's I guess I shouldn't even level, because there is no reason to.. I mean, why spend the time and money, if I can just zip around and do nothing...
as far as the money, I do not mind dropping money either, but I want value for it.. there is no value in this system.. the t6 ships are hideous, the iconic "star trek" ships are not worth the upgrade. and don't argue it, because you just said we are going to be able to play the endgame with teir 1, 2, and 3 ships..
and no, the need to play a t6 ships isn't just because it is a new shiney, or more powerfull, it has new features to the game.. for nearly 5 years I have been playing with the same boff seatings/classes/ and layouts.. they are finally adding on to that (which should have happened way earlier) and now it is being gated to possibly 3 ships on the fed side (I say fed as I play fed). that is not fair.. that is not trying to make money, but skinning the players... they could have easily made the upgrade system include the new features, still made money on them, and kept the value of the previously released ships..
after all, cryptic themselves have said that starships are just a frame, you can upgrade the technology in them (in their defense of adding the excelsior and other old old ships to the game at high levels.. ) its just a space frame right? cryptic is tripping all over themselves on this one.
All of you keep forgetting that new things, specially ships, are the target number 1 of rich people, kids and people who are the ones giving cryptic more reasons to do nothing except releasing new and better stuff. Money.
I am a player who never wanted the best of the best. When i started playing, 2 years ago, i knew the omega reputation was the best, and still i didnt even bother to do it on more than 2 toons. I have 10 characters and 75% of em are only fited with blue/purple gear, but most of em just regular gear, not even reputation gear or fleet gear. Because all my ships are fited with stuff i enjoy, not stuff that is considered the best in the game. Unfortunately a massive ammount of dumb players thinks the opposite, that a game means that you have to adquire the best of the best no matter what, if you dont do that, you are not "enjoying" the game. And who are the people with that limited point of view, rich people (obviously they dont need to be worry to waste ridiculous ammount of money every month), kids, and people who never cared about the future of the game. Sadly, these ammount of players are the base of cryptic's incomes, and thats the only reason cryptic make stupid decisions over and over again. Because the only thing that matters to em is the money. So, if these players are happy, they are happy. So, the problem is not that we are forced to adquire a better ship (i wont) the problem is, the terrible management decisions cryptic is doing just because of these rich players that are willing to throw away money and money and money to keep this game drawning, and as i said, since most of em are kids, they are not aware the harm they are doing to this game. So, cryptic will always do things based on adquiring money, not based of the enjoyment of the players or the health of the game. They will buy anything because they can, period. Even if it is not necessary. Its time some of you actually understand this, because some complainings are just stupid, seriously.
Again, totally wrong lol. What people wanted is a system to upgrade old ships to another tier. Not NEW SHIPS. NOBODY WANTED NEW SHIPS. Period. The only thing people wanted is a system (i thought it was going to be implemented in the recently revamped crafting system, for example) allowing your ships to be upgraded. Thats all. New ships?? come on... zzzzz. I mean, of course the cool thing and the complicated thing will be to implement this system, thats the reason cryptic just decided to release new ships and make a little crappy upgrade system just "in case". Because that is faster and it will not cost too much efforts.
This game is far from a business, in a business the customers are being taking care, even if they are paying alot of money for watever it is. In STO players never take attention. All the things cryptic does are not related to the player requests. All the things cryptic does are focused to gain even more money without taking in consideration the player base. And i should not be saying this to you, since this is something happening since ages ago. Its you the one that dont have a clue how cryptic is doing things. People is mad because every decision cryptic makes, its a bad one. And it is a bad one, because again, they can only think in 1 thing "money". And a good company will never do that. There must be always a balance, but of course "balance" is a word out of cryptic's vocabulary.
They can still make new MKXII equpiment. So? we need yes or yes new MKIV equipment?? why??? is out there any enemie that is not possible to kill with common mkX gear?? xD. I mean, where is the sense on that?
Still people dont get it. We dont want unnecessary new things. We never wanted a new ESD. We never wanted a revamped doff system. We wanted an improved crafting system, not , erm something that looks more like a buy list. We never wanted exploration clusters to be removed, just revamped. And still, they are gone. I could go on.
Players are asking for an upgrade system since the beginnings of times, and what people get? just a new tier of ships and a little upgrade system just in case. Not a focused system to develop upgraded ships.
The only reason we have new dumb ships and we will have MKXIV equipment is because people will buy it and use it, no matter if it is not necessary at all. And because that will mean money for cryptic. Thats the only reason. And based on this premise, all bad decisions are made.
As to T6, sure I expect them to be "better" in some way. Am I upset by this? No not really. For a while now the "best ship" has supposedly been the Scimitar, allegedly outclassing every other ship. Yet what ship do I use the most? My Fleet Galaxy X Dreadnought, a ship considered nowhere near as good. I chose this ship before my Scimitar, my Fleet Avenger, etc etc etc. Am I upset that there is or are ships considered "better" in the game? Heck no, because the simple truth is it still is a brilliant ship that I enjoy lots.
Will I upgrade it to T5U? Probably.
Will STO lose a few players to this? Probably, but more than likely it's gain a heck of a lot more players than it loses....
and you completely missed my point, that this isn't just an extra console and stats, but new game mechanics that are being gated..
what I mean by gated is, it is being included on things that for most is something they make decisions about purley on looks.. that is not a good way to gate the content. my ship is my avatar in space.. I am not choosing to not get a t6 ship because of money, I am choosing it because I wish to continue using my defiant, or my intrepid, or my galaxy class to name a few. because that is the "look" I like..
in world of ********, they may make changes to a class, but they never strong arm you into changing your race. they never said, oh, well you cant be a night elf anymore.. if you want to continue being said class, you have to become an orc... that would be silly, which is what is happening here..
the whole point of the fleet ship system, was to get the ships (avatars) people wanted at endgame and viable.. sure, the ships may still be viable, but to play them I will miss out on a completely new facet to the game.. all because I prefer one skin over another.
I would have much rather paid 30-60 bucks to unlock all of the x2 features, than to have all my previous purchases devalued..
further more. lets use wow again, when I purchase a pet, or a mount off the blizz store, everytime the endgame bar is raised (so mount speed in this case) my purchased mounts speed is increased.. they realize I have paid money for it, and honor that by keeping it top notch at endgame.
that is not happening here. i said this yesterday, i would much rather give up the 11th console slot on my t5-u, and gain access to the 2 new boff seatings. that is a major thing, and is being gated to only those who like the looks of the new ships.. that is not fair in any way shape or form... also, would it have killed them to make a t6 upgrade for all ships that are currently at endgame.. they would still make money.. i wouldn't mind spending a few bucks to upgrade my t5 vessels if the upgrade was worth it. in this case its not.. it really isn't.. not as long as t6 ships loom above them..
again, this is the reason so many devs said no to t6 ships for so long.. they knew this would be a problem... i don't know how or why this is happening..
This is what happens in MMO's friend. This was bound to happen sooner or later. That's the problem when you become too attached to something.
Am I going to be ticked my avenger isn't top of the line anymore? Yes I am. But this is what happens in business.
You see many players like yourself seen to think that gaming companies put out awesome games to please the players. No they put out games to make money. This is a money making scheme. They put out something addicting like star trek then do things like put out tier 5 ships, many iconic that people want so badly. They gave you what 4 years with it? That's longer than most games, now the march of time is upon us.
This was an inevitably. It was coming sooner or later, most just buried their heads in the sand and thought otherwise.
Well you got two choices or well 3.
1. You can continue to use your ship as is and you can probably do all the content except the newer ESTFs that are probably coming.
2. Go to T5U and still use your ship at end game, but it won't ever be the cutting edge like tier 6.
3. Get a tier 6.
Those are the choices here people. Again that long essay did not answer my basic question.
And I'll make it loud and clear for you.
WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A TIER 6 SHIP IF THEIR 5 SHIPS COULD BE UPGRADED TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING?
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ever since they announced t-6s to be released ive answered that question and have been outragged since.
and the fact sooner or later if you dont have the t-6 your not going to be comeptitive and you will have to get a t-6 or box/lobi/event ship.
sooner or later the difficulty of ESTFs will be increased when the amount of T-6s make the current difficulty way to easy to complete.
at that point even the t-5u will be obsolete and you will have to get a t-6 regardless.
WAIT AND SEE IF YOU CAN DO THE NEW CONTENT IN YOUR EXISTING T5.5 SHIP BEFORE DECIDING YOU NEED TO GET A T6. DO NOT BUY IT SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS NEW AND YOU THINK YOU NEED TO BUY IT!
As that all that difficult to understand?
Oh come on. Lets do some logical reasoning. If they are going to put out stronger ships but not make stronger content that goes back to:
Why put out a tier 6 ships when a tier 5 fleet ship can do the job with no upgrades.
Come on some deductive reasoning here!
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Not as much as forcing people to break down and fork out 25-30 bucks to have the latest and greatest.
Reason they are doing tier 5U.
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Sure, now how about you reference your source stating that there wont be "stronger" content added? You wont find any, they don't exist.
Raging with only half formed ideas of what will and wont be, as opposed to facts, you should value the health of your heart more than that.
Logical reasoning tells me Cryptic does not do hard content and that is not going to change.
Going to answer your riddle with some of Edward Nigma's greatest zingers:
To explain why T6 is too blatant a money grab ...
To explain the types of development tools Cryptic uses to make this stuff ...
To explain why there's so much discussion about this ...
To explain some of the angst about a certain developer who's handle rhymes with art deco ...
To explain why there's been a fallout between the devs and the forums ...
And finally to underscore people's anger with T5-U because of all the money they spent on ships prior to this jawn ...
You wanted Riddles Batman? You got RIDDLES Batman!
Time will only tell!
The thing is that its common sense that with the addition of t-6s that the contents difficulty will be increased either with delta rising or at a later date but either way its will happen.
if someone sees a road being built to a town and the construction crew says its not going there do you blindly beleive them?
the road map is clear where this is going one has to be a fool not to see what is going to happen going forward.
We shall see won't we. Again why put out a tier 6 ship if a tier 5 or 5u can do the job? Why not have harder content if you're trying to drive players to get the latest and greatest?
Thing about money grabs, you gotta force them to do so. The best way is to make stronger eSTFS that cannot be done easily with tier 5 ships.
Only solution.
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Cryptic DO make harder content, quite regularly. Sadly within days of them adding it to the game the forum is filled with cries of "It's too hard! Make it easier!", followed in short order by Cryptic doing just that.
Just look at the CE Elite STF. When they first re-released it with the mirror rifts at the same time, it actually presented a challenge, where an un-coridinated team would wipe repeatedly and the entity would heal back to full health from 25% health. Forum tears later, we got the non-event CE revamp with NO mirror rifts and an entity that was just a HP monster. Even the current event CE elite is hardly any sort of challenge, I should sit and 7-9km and shoot everything....
Cryptic CAN made difficult content, sadly though actions would suggest that their data then tells them that most players don't actually want difficult content, they just want to feel awesome.
hardly the point.. everyone keeps skipping over themeat and potatos of my posts.. lol.. i love when people pick and choose what to respond to..
and there is no point for t6, they (the devs) had said for the longest time it wasn't going to happen. they were against it, and all of asudden its here and causeing all the grief they wanted to avoid in the past..
i take choice 4, as i already have, which is quit...
don't lecture me about mmo's i have played pretty much all of them. some longer than others.. but like i responded to cosmic.. ships are not just a piece of equipment, they are your avatar in space. it would be like saying they are releasing stronger races, and that all the old races you could play as are now inferior. when other mmo's elevate the level cap, they balance the new races or classes (for the most part) with the existing races and classes. in delta rising, they are not doing that. they are simply saying, oh, well you want to play the new interesting features, well tough, you have to buy a t6 to do that. "f" that. i would gladly pay for an upgrade of my ships to t6.. who is that hurting.. they still make money, i get the ship i want.. and no one else should care what ship im flying..
this whole thing just seems off to me.. there was no need for a t6, and beyond that, no need to not elevate the other ships to full t6 status.. i mean, how much are they losing if they charge an upgrade cost... people who like the new ships will still buy them, people are are interested in playing the old ships, will still upgrade, and the game would have been balanced, and fair, i would have retained my purchase value...
its not about money to me.. i cant make that clear enough, its about value, respect, and fairness. i feel as i am being disrespected for being a fan of the ship (avatar) i love. i don't want to fly any of those hideous t6 ships i have seen so far, and im only guessing its gonna get worse from here on out. this decision really showcases cryptic/pwe's inability to properly maintain, and run a game. and their business practices are pretty lame too.
i hear you, i already know i can probably do anything that comes out in a t1 vessel, cryptic is not exactly stellar at making content, and even less so at making engaging content.
what my argument is and has been, is that i have been dreaming of getting new boffs types for a long time, i have stated that over the last few years.. and now its being gated.. i will not stand for that.
sorry for the novels, i tend to want to make sure everyone knows where im coming from.. if i write something short, the trolls get in on it.. if you keep it long winded, they just skip over it.. not to mention, no one usually misunderstands me.. lol.