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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Borg Resources

thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
edited August 2014 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
So the latest post mentioned the Borg's resources being stretched thin...


...what about the Federation? The Borg always outnumbered them 10 to 1...so why are they stretched thin but the Federation can easily mount expeditions to the Delta Quadrant?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    thibash wrote: »
    So the latest post mentioned the Borg's resources being stretched thin...


    ...what about the Federation? The Borg always outnumbered them 10 to 1...so why are they stretched thin but the Federation can easily mount expeditions to the Delta Quadrant?

    During the Borg-Undine War, the Collective had only weeks left before its total destruction.
    Relatively soon after, a Transwarp Hub was destroyed by Voyager.

    Now, the Borg are waging a massive war against the Voth - we don't know how long both parties are fighting already, but the Voth are desperate enough to try an Omega particle-based weapon to cut the Borg off.

    While dealing with that, the Borg launched massive invasions of the Alpha Quadrant AND Fluidic Space.

    I think it's reasonable to assume that they are stretched a little thin right now.
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  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    thibash wrote: »
    So the latest post mentioned the Borg's resources being stretched thin...


    ...what about the Federation? The Borg always outnumbered them 10 to 1...so why are they stretched thin but the Federation can easily mount expeditions to the Delta Quadrant?

    Janeway and Voyager dealt a substantial blow to the Borg and it's regular way of doing things.

    She left them not only lacking in resources, but also having to deal with actual rebellion in their ranks and a head-on battle with the Undine.

    The Federation, on the other hand, has thousands of member races that cooperate on a grand scale and have the where-for-all to pick up the pieces and begin anew.

    I'm sure we'll find that the Borg are just now starting to re-coup their losses and trying to become dominant once again when Cryptic drops D.R.

    :cool:
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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Lets see... Pre-nemesis losses:
    • Loss of two Cubes (that was seemingly what they could spare at the time) on the Federation
    • Loss of who knows how many ships to Species 8472
    • Loss of, probably more than, one planet to Species 8472
    • Loss of who knows how many ships to Unimatrix zero (intended destructions and overtaken)
    • Loss of the Transwarp Hub and a great deal of their network
    • Loss of 3 Queens
    • Loss of the Unicomplex

    Post Nemesis (STO) losses:
    • Loss of Vega and Vega-underground facility
    • Loss of Several ships raided by the Romulans
    • Loss of undisclosed number of Borg Ships (minimum 2) due to Iconians
    • Loss of undisclosed number of ships in Ker'rat
    • Loss of several newly established footholds in Gamma Orionis
    • Loss of the only known ships capable of assimilating 8472
    • Loss of sibiran system (Human Borg nanovirus development center)
    • Loss of Vorn system (Klingon Borg nanovirus development center, and subsequent source of cure for said virus).
    • Loss of Quadra Sigma timeportal system
    • Loss of Borg Unimatrix (location unknown)
    • Loss of yet another queen

    Ongoing wars:
    • Federation
    • Klingon
    • Romulan
    • Voth
    • 8472

    Ongoing Effords:
    • Invasion of all Alpha and Beta Quadrant sectors
    • Invasion of Defera
    • Invasion of Ker'rat and at least two planets.

    Yea... they might be spread somewhat thin.
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  • daka86daka86 Member Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    They lost more that few planets to the Species 8472 in the Voyager :cool:.
    Where we see just 1 planet destroy but i`ts presume that the borg lost more that just 1.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    daka86 wrote: »
    They lost more that few planets to the Species 8472 in the Voyager :cool:.
    Where we see just 1 planet destroy but i`ts presume that the borg lost more that just 1.

    Right... forgot those in pre-nemesis section.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • havokreignhavokreign Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    Truncated

    Man, they just can't catch a break.
  • valenn1valenn1 Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    And if some as mighty as the Borg stumbles, you may find unlikely alliances to help them fall.
    Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
    unfortunately:

    NOT LOYAL ENOUGH!!!
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valenn1 wrote: »
    And if some as mighty as the Borg stumbles, you may find unlikely alliances to help them fall.

    Preferably with the Undine. Maybe we can undo some of the damage Janeway did and gain an additional ally against the Iconians.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Preferably with the Undine. Maybe we can undo some of the damage Janeway did and gain an additional ally against the Iconians.

    That'd be cool.

    I am hoping that the Undine and the Tholians will get aboard the "roflstomp the Iconians and Co." bandwagon sooner or later.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Preferably with the Undine. Maybe we can undo some of the damage Janeway did and gain an additional ally against the Iconians.
    Nah, the Undine are not generally a race that has allies. Sure it's possible to find a few that aren't blinded by their superiority complex, but only a few....
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  • schneemann83schneemann83 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    Ongoing wars:
    • Federation
    • Klingon
    • Romulan
    • Voth
    • 8472

    Ongoing Effords:
    • Invasion of all Alpha and Beta Quadrant sectors
    • Invasion of Defera
    • Invasion of Ker'rat and at least two planets.

    Yea... they might be spread somewhat thin.
    Yet Federation and Klingons fight twice as many ongoing wars, had major losses against each other and quite a few past enemies like the Dominion, nearly lost both their homeworlds, try to secure two dyson spheres while invading the delta quadrant... and the borg are spread thin?
  • inkrunnerinkrunner Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You're forgetting the TEN Unimatrix ships and countless probes/spheres/cubes/tac cubes the Borg have lost in attempts to invade the Alpha and beta quadrants in STO.

    There's no way that doesn't sting. Truth is, the Borg are our captains' punching bag.
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited August 2014
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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Its given that sooner or later the war vs. undine will come to a stop, as even they should be able to realize the threat the iconians illustrate. They might not see us as allies, but simply as the lesser evil.

    As for tholians, I expect them to be the biggest enemy of the iconians, namely the second antagonists of them. They would make the perfect match, being as mysterious as the iconians.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    More likely we'll all pull a Janeway and form an alliance with the Borg against the Iconians. Every race not being all bad is within Roddenberry's vision.
    Yeah, the Borg weren't really depicted as evil in their first appearance, more... amoral.
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited August 2014
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    More likely we'll all pull a Janeway and form an alliance with the Borg against the Iconians. Every race not being all bad is within Roddenberry's vision.

    Sorry, the Borg are the one and only exception. Their sole raison d'etre is to see every sapient creature in the galaxy join the Collective or die. You try to form an alliance with them, you have only yourself to blame when they inevitably turn on you.

    The only ethically and morally correct dealing you can have with them is to wage total war to eradicate them from the face of the galaxy.

    To be clear, with any other opponent I'm all for trying to seek a diplomatic solution. Trying to seek a diplomatic solution with the Borg is suicide.
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Yeah, the Borg weren't really depicted as evil in their first appearance, more... amoral.
    So are Stargate SG-1's Replicators, at least until Fifth and then RepliCarter took over. That doesn't make them any less of an omnicidal menace.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited August 2014
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Worked for Janeway. ;)

    No, it didn't. They turned on her the moment they were no longer in danger of being exterminated, which just proves my point. It was only because Chakotay for once acted like a competent individual that Voyager got out of that with their skins intact.

    By contrast the Undine are actually willing to negotiate in good faith and keep to their agreements, which makes them infinitely preferable as allies.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Worked for Janeway. ;)

    It actually didn't... wasn't that the point of the episode? The scorpion will kill you, because it is its nature...
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited August 2014
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited August 2014
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Right. Janeway and crew found a way to win. There's no reason to believe we couldn't be just as, if not more successful in a diplomatic effort with them.
    Nice of you to quote mine me and xiaoping and conveniently ignore the part where I point out that with the Undine, you don't need to prepare for their sudden but inevitable betrayal, because they don't betray you.

    See how far you have to bend over backwards to justify Janeway's treason?
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Voyager made it home without being assimilated by the Borg in that episode. I'd say the alliance worked for them.

    Because they knew the Borg would turn on them... what is exactly the thing I wanted to point out.
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  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    Right. Janeway and crew found a way to win. There's no reason to believe we couldn't be just as, if not more successful in a diplomatic effort with them.

    Janeway should be in prison
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The Borg will remain spread thin until the Borg Featured Episode where we play a Cube, assault a few ships and the assimilate a world or two to bring the Collective back up to snuff.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jslyn wrote: »
    The Borg will remain spread thin until the Borg Featured Episode where we play a Cube, assault a few ships and the assimilate a world or two to bring the Collective back up to snuff.


    actually that sounds rather fun...

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    No, it didn't. They turned on her the moment they were no longer in danger of being exterminated, which just proves my point. It was only because Chakotay for once acted like a competent individual that Voyager got out of that with their skins intact.

    By contrast the Undine are actually willing to negotiate in good faith and keep to their agreements, which makes them infinitely preferable as allies.
    Only when they can't shoot you.... It's almost like the Undine consider it morally repulsive to allow lesser races to exist. Which makes them an omnicidal menace.... And, unlike the Borg, they fight to exterminate and don't care about collateral damage.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Only when they can't shoot you.... It's almost like the Undine consider it morally repulsive to allow lesser races to exist. Which makes them an omnicidal menace.... And, unlike the Borg, they fight to exterminate and don't care about collateral damage.

    Evidence for all of your suppositions please. Evidence against:
    • The Undine most certainly could've shot down Voyager in "In the Flesh" once the crew's cover was blown, had they wanted to. They were flying in orbit of a major Undine facility. You seriously think they're not going to have defenses up?
    • Undine fight to exterminate, the Borg fight to assimilate and exterminate what they can't. Guess what: For the person on the receiving end, there's no actual difference. And, again, against the Borg, fighting to exterminate is the only ethical, moral, and militarily sensible way to fight. Anything less than total war means they can recover and come right back at you, because such is their entire raison d'etre and has been since day one. The only difference from the TNG portrayal to the post-First Contact portrayal is exactly what they want from you; the tactics and end result are still the same.
    • For the umpteenth time, there is absolutely no evidence that the Undine were interested in anything other than the Borg. There was absolutely no collateral damage shown other than minor, nonfatal damage to the idiots wandering around in an active war zone.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • kestrelliuskestrellius Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The Borg are only evil because they're stupid. Which, coincidentally, is the same reason they're losing to ostensibly inferior factions.

    Look, if the Borg tried the diplomatic route, they'd stand a pretty good chance of convincing at least some races to join them in their quest for perfection. Especially since you could easily try it out and then leave the Collective, provided the assimilation process was adapted to be a little less permanent. I mean, they rehabilitated Seven in what, a month? And that was on a single ship, in deep space, with no resources. And she'd been a drone since she was five.

    So yeah. If the Borg weren't complete idiots, they'd be setting up an exchange program. "Experience life in a vast collective! Never be alone!"
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