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a use for the genesis system, pvp space maps.
skollulfr
Member Posts: 5,407 Arc User
since the space maps dont have to worry about corridors being blocked and the other flaws, cryptics genesis system could be used for generating space pvp maps.
this way there could be an ongoing sequence of pvp maps where people could join and keep getting jumped to the next map rather than kicked out after single rounds.
yes, im referring to the sort of system shooters use where players go with the flow of a map rotation instead of any possible, flow being disrupted by how pvp queues are handled now.
this way there could be an ongoing sequence of pvp maps where people could join and keep getting jumped to the next map rather than kicked out after single rounds.
yes, im referring to the sort of system shooters use where players go with the flow of a map rotation instead of any possible, flow being disrupted by how pvp queues are handled now.
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My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Spawn Points, Point Counters, Scoreboard Mechanics, and much more. Especially if it's not just a Kill Arena - zones like Capture and Hold are on a whole different level of complexity. None of this can currently be created or modified in The Foundry, and implementing the means to do so would likely be exceedingly problematic.
Not to mention the potential exploits it could open.
The Genesis System never created system maps on the fly. All it did was pre-generate a vast number of variants based on a set of parameters that were entered on our end. Each map it spit out was a real asset, tucked somewhere into our data structure. It wasn't created and then destroyed when not in use - it simply sat there, vacant, taking up space. And even after generating each map, they still had to be reviewed by-hand to ensure that everything worked and wasn't terribly broken. Imagine having to do that with hundreds or thousands of maps?
Honestly, I'm pretty sure the ship has sailed on using Genesis for anything. Our Environment Artists could likely generate more memorable, higher quality maps in a more efficient manner, if they had the time to do so.
Now... having said all of that, and dashed so many hopes...
I'd love to see what sort of thing the community would come up with, if they were allowed to create Foundry PvP maps. Space and Ground. Obviously the chances at this point of any of them being turned into some sort of final, playable product would be close-to-none... but I'd still very much enjoy seeing them. If for no other reason than to glimpse into the minds of what our players think a "good PvP map" actually looks and plays like.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
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*Puts away foundry toys*
So I guess this means there's a lot more than slapping on some respawn points...
Would it work if we just built special foundry maps and you guys plugged in the PvP stuff, or is that still in the realm of too complicated?
I'm still very much in favor of it. Obviously we'd need some tools added to the editor to make it possible, that would take concentrated, scheduled work on the part of Cryptic, and we're not getting that right now and I understand why.
Borticus, to answer this:
I don't think they would have to be "final, playable product" in the same way a Cryptic-designed map is. As I envision it, you could only use PvP Foundry maps in a private queue. The public queues could be reserved for Cryptic maps only. That way no one is lured into potentially unbalanced or buggy maps in the PUG queues. And as well, you could highlight the best of the best player-designed maps with a spotlight system like we have now with story missions.
The hope has been dashed...least I have many others
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Foundry Maps, and maps that we create internally, are very different in nature. I'm not intimately familiar with all the details (the Foundry subforum folks may know), but I believe most of the data would pretty much need to be re-created for us to publish them.
In other words: I don't think it would save us any time, but I don't know for certain.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Without any way to incorporate any new mechanics into a Foundry map, the best we can do is to make something cosmetic and non-functional in a PvP sense. A pretty obstacle course.
How would we even playtest them? At a bare minimum, we'd need to be able to run a Foundry map as opposing teams so we can actually shoot each other and Cryptic would have to decide how and whether things like triggers and dialog would work on a Blue vs. Red map. That functionality isn't there until Cryptic decides to put it there.
Like someone else said, we might as well just tell the Devs what we want. Because Show and Tell is not really an option here.
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That's not a bad idea, and would adequately address many of the "exploits" I alluded to in my first reply.
I guess I should probably not comment on the Software Engineering side of getting these types of features into the Foundry. My knowledge of that sort of stuff is sadly quite limited. Considering the problems we've had with trying to get other features added to the Foundry though, I didn't want anyone getting their hopes up too high.
The reality is that I'd personally really love to see Foundry PvP maps (as private queues, like drogyn proposed). But I didn't want saying that to come across as any sort of promise that it'd happen.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Oh, I agree. And if somebody is better with MSPaint than the Foundry, that's just as good an option for Show-and-Tell, in my opinion.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
just how much time and work would it take to create or convert into, a pvp map? would it be harder then creating a fully scripted, voiced and cut scene filled pve mission? it doesn't seem like asking a lot to make it a development goal to make say 1 new pvp map every full season or so.
I really do wonder about this. I have so many epic ideas for pvp maps rolling around, like fighting on top of some structure where falling off means permadeath for the match (last man on it wins), or a race where a team tries to get to a spot on the map and the other team tries to stop them, or a space maze with hidden spots for ships to ambush.
The best part about it was the social function of the chat and a way to watch the other players when dead, while chatting in the text. It was fun to be a spectator after death, while socializing.
Of course, STO isn't about power ups and that type of FPS strategy. But there could be a role for strategic ambush and knowing the secret corridors and hiding spots in a well made foundry map.
Never gonna happen though.
My biggest hope remains: Hey Cryptic, can you improve the Foundry UI so folks can find our missions? Google has a next page for search results. We can't browse the top 50-100, or the 100=150, etc.
Everyone would hate Google if it worked like your Foundry UI.
Is it really too much to ask that of all the maps that come during a season, one of them gets a treatment to something pvp related. A freighter sortie, a shuttle pvp map, a war zone, a fluidic space arena map ... something to link it to the theme of the season, and that uses existing assets?
Then again it took jesse's private initiative and god knows what dark sorcery to get the spawn points in kerrat sorted, it only took 3 years. If thats the kind of work needed to add spawn points to a map using interna tools ...meh
@bort if you have to include cut scenes and voice talent for a pvp map. Get mickey, no cost is to high
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Okay, here: I want the Azure Nebula Rescue mission as an open PVP zone in the vein of Kerrat. Plays just like normal but feds and kdf join on opposite teams/sides, runs until either side has freed X ships, then resets in three to five minutes. Might have to make the playable space a bit bigger, add some more asteroids.
Barring that, I want the Azure Nebula Rescue *map* as a PVP arena or Capture and Hold map. Because it is very pretty and a welcome change from brown brown brown.
Allow me to save you some time (likely not...)
Just turn Facility 4028 into a map. Looks like a load of fun with chokepoints and the like.
It'd be great.
You know what else would be great? Turn the voth battlezone into a ground capture and hold open pvp battleground.
I'd accept one new pvp map every ten seasons. Because let's face it we actually have less pvp maps than the game started with at this point. Even just one new map would be more than we have now.
Plus the way I have been looking at how they did it in gw2 it could sort of be the answer to the fleet admiral issue of not commanding your fleet or what not. The largest hurdle is each pvp area would have to be drastically larger than anything they have made to date as far as maps go.
In my opinion though if anything is done with/for pvp I think it should be something so well thought out that isn't a blow out like the current one is where its just some death match system that hasn't changed in internet gaming in 30 years lol. It has to offer Star Trek and something unique to this game but still fun. The other thing aside from all that is them having a PvP specific team with artists that can keep PvP content flowing at a rate of how these seasons come out. Like if its actual Truth that CBS does not want people flying certain kinds of ships around to have ships people can buy that are PvP only. So that it can open up the game to possibilities of battling for locations that lets say not just any captain, admiral, or general would be called to fight at like a [REDACTED] system
Or how about just a different scenery for space like the space map from a step between stars where your next to the sun?
Wow - I rarely ever PVP outside of Kerrat, but this I would do every day. Today, we already get to play the Battle of the Bassen Rift with the Vapers/Scimis/Alphas vs. snooping/tanking/CC. I don't think that was by design, though.