its also not as simple as avoiding the p2w tag by simply including just any grind mechanic.
if sto introduced a battlecloaking 15 console ship with full universal seating including 2 commanders, then offered the bind-on-pickup box for sale in the lobi store for 5000 lobi, thats pay-to-win. right? if the grind option is too far off the meter you kind of lose the ability to claim its a realistic option, save for a handful of full-time industrial-scale commercial farmers.
or is the argument that if it is even remotely possible that one could multi-box grind 14 hours a day for 18 months that its not actually p2w?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs
... we are the developers of the game.
Hilarious. Mostly trying to convince himself at this point.
But you know, at the end of the day, the players bankroll everything including your job and so demi-god complex aside, your station is dancing at the whim of the community you don't like and have such a hard time accepting.
And even if you do manage to get away with poor decisions and implementation, the respect or acknowledgement isn't automatically given away because you wave a developer flag around.
Fanboys or overly biased people who worship your every move did you a huge dis-service, however they aren't getting paid to be professional - you are.
The decision to post-pone the whole game for 4-7 weeks, put everyone on hold, and hold the game hostage was a super un-intelligent move.
You can't just wave the developer flag around "b-b-but I am a developer so blinders on!!!11".
Yeah the game is still up but you also got people telling us to stop spending in your game and I don't think there is anyone in the whole community who wouldn't have predicted that, except the developers.
its also not as simple as avoiding the p2w tag by simply including just any grind mechanic.
Yes, it is that simple.
if sto introduced a battlecloaking 15 console ship with full universal seating including 2 commanders, then offered the bind-on-pickup box for sale in the lobi store for 5000 lobi, thats pay-to-win. right?
If that ship can be sold on the exchange for EC or traded to other players for some other form of barter, then no. It isn't pay2win. If I can trade a bottle of Chateau Picard for that ship, then it isn't pay2win.
Most ships sold on the Lobi Store are bind-on-equip, not bind-on-pickup.
Using your very strict (if unrealistic) hypothetical scenario, you could argue that it is pay2win. But such a thing has no comparable precedence in the game, thus the scenario itself is unrealistic.
If you want to use the Dyson Science Destroyer as your brilliant example, it falls flat on its face when you consider it was -- at one point -- entirely free. And the cost (in Lobi) is to make it more fair to those players who purchased those Qmendation things.
if the grind option is too far off the meter you kind of lose the ability to claim its a realistic option, save for a handful of full-time industrial-scale commercial farmers.
There is no meter.
You will not find people in STO come to a universal agreement on what constitutes a 'realistic' or 'unrealistic' option. The fact things can be acquired for free is what makes it pay4convenience, and not pay2win.
Just because you personally don't like the amount of time and effort invested into it doesn't mean it's unrealistic for all. Just unrealistic for you.
or is the argument that if it is even remotely possible that one could multi-box grind 14 hours a day for 18 months that its not actually p2w?
The argument is that if you can trade dilithium you earn for Zen, buy lockbox keys for EC, or buy things inside lockboxes for EC, then it isn't pay2win.
There are too many options, too many forms of currency conversion, too many forms of free currency earned simply by playing the game in order to fit any sort of rational definition of pay2win.
There is no solid paywall behind anything except perhaps the Veteran benefits. There never was. And there's no reason to believe that with Delta Rising that there ever will be in the future.
I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet heavily that there isn't going to be a solid paywall behind anything T6 in Delta Rising.
If you're going for a set I say go for it. All this obsolescence TRIBBLE is nothing more than fear mongering. If you really want it, and you're willing to pay for it, just f'n buy it.
will see who is fear mongering when all your ships are obsolete and consoles are useless, and you get forced into spending money:rolleyes:
Ouch Taco, way to commit professional suicide, or as I like to call it, the "Attack Pattern Geko" maneuver...
I share the sentiments in the thread, though. Hold off buying a thing until X2 hits live, as the devs word isn't enough to rely on either..
Actually, that post was made quite a while ago for completely different reasons. And he's basically right.
That said, I would like to note an oversight in the OP: While the JHAS is being upgraded in some way, the fact remains that, once again, 'competitive' is not necessarily what we think it is - or what we would like it to be. Basically, the same thing applies to fleet and lockbox ships as to the JHAS. Caveat emptor. :P
(Ironically, I just rewatched the episode where the Enterprise first meets the Ferengi last night... )
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
will see who is fear mongering when all your ships are obsolete and consoles are useless, and you get forced into spending money:rolleyes:
Umm, ya. Nothing is going to stop working or be reduced to T1 level. All consoles will continue to do what they did before and all ships will have all the stats they had before,...
Your comment is a perfect example of the "fear mongering" I and many others are talking about that's running rampant.
Outside of few special Rep sets/Items, nowhere in this game can you upgrade a Mk X weapon array to Mk XII, a Mk X deflector/engine/shield set to a Mk XII or a T1 ship to a T5 Fleet.
Just because they introduce a new expansion and add Mk XIII and Mk XIV gear, does not mean people should be able to upgrade their Mk XII's to the new level, or their T5/Fleet ships to the new T6/Fleet level.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
DO, buy what you need when you need it. Anything and everything you buy the day before the expansion, will be just as useful the day after.
This is demonstrably false and makes no logical sense whatsoever. When Mk XI and Mk XII came out, I challenge you to try to tell me how Aegis (stuck at Mk X) was "just as useful" as those sets (particularly MACO Mk XII) before Season 9.5. You "could" use it and it was "competitive" but it wasn't top-end gear. Point blank and period.
That said, I would like to note an oversight in the OP: While the JHAS is being upgraded in some way, the fact remains that, once again, 'competitive' is not necessarily what we think it is - or what we would like it to be. Basically, the same thing applies to fleet and lockbox ships as to the JHAS. Caveat emptor. :P
I agree. I've highlighted this in the OP, thanks.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
But you know, at the end of the day, the players bankroll everything including your job and so demi-god complex aside, your station is dancing at the whim of the community you don't like and have such a hard time accepting.
Every lock box you open is a vote FOR the status quo of Star Trek Online.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
This is demonstrably false and makes no logical sense whatsoever. When Mk XI and Mk XII came out, I challenge you to try to tell me how Aegis (stuck at Mk X) was "just as useful" as those sets (particularly MACO Mk XII) before Season 9.5. You "could" use it and it was "competitive" but it wasn't top-end gear. Point blank and period.
I agree. I've highlighted this in the OP, thanks.
The point you missed is that the item you buy will be just as useful as it was. It's stats arent going to change, its not going to produce less damage/power/crit whatever it did,... it will do everything it did before the expansion. My comment was an item in relation to itself, NOT to something completely different of a completely different class.
I never said that Mk XII will be every bit as good as the new Mk XIV, I said that Mk XII's will be just as good as they were before the expansion. Nothing is going to suddenly "De-Stat" itself and become less than it was. It will only be less in relation to the new stuff.
Just because something else is "better" does not mean that what you have/had is now totally useless. If it was useful before the expansion, it will still be useful after.
The fact that you, and apparently, many others running around in Zone chat and on this forum fail to grasp this basic concept, and continue to want to label all existing items as "obsolete" and "useless" once X2 drops,... is endemic of the underlying problem in this game,...
People want to have the best toys, they want to be seen to have the best toys. They will whine and cry and stamp there feet when what they perceive as an investment, is no longer the shiniest bestest thing available.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
i think its great advice, and its pretty much in the vein of what i have been doing and advising others to do as well.
in fact, i am curious if op would mind too much if this was sent out as a fleet mail (with the requisite link to post of course).
Yes me too, i even went as far as making 2 fleet wide mails from the op's message and send it to all in my fleet.
The point you missed is that the item you buy will be just as useful as it was. It's stats arent going to change, its not going to produce less damage/power/crit whatever it did,... it will do everything it did before the expansion. My comment was an item in relation to itself, NOT to something completely different of a completely different class.
I never said that Mk XII will be every bit as good as the new Mk XIV, I said that Mk XII's will be just as good as they were before the expansion. Nothing is going to suddenly "De-Stat" itself and become less than it was. It will only be less in relation to the new stuff.
Just because something else is "better" does not mean that what you have/had is now totally useless. If it was useful before the expansion, it will still be useful after.
The fact that you, and apparently, many others running around in Zone chat and on this forum fail to grasp this basic concept, and continue to want to label all existing items as "obsolete" and "useless" once X2 drops,... is endemic of the underlying problem in this game,...
People want to have the best toys, they want to be seen to have the best toys. They will whine and cry and stamp there feet when what they perceive as an investment, is no longer the shiniest bestest thing available.
And what if they come-out with a new tier 6 partol escort refit gold edtion, that have extra turnrate ect. ??? Is my partol escort refit, i just got 4 weeks ago still a good buy ??? NO, it will be $25 wasted...
a game going trough evolution, is much better then game standing in a place, and gets replace whit a new game.
it is going to cost you? go figure!
it's not fair you say?... is it fair for developers to work for free? when mercedes make a new model, they immediately gives them to all buyers that bought the old model.
should they make a new content that you cry about all the time on the forums, and then they should get squat. but YOU should get them for free because YOU bought a ship that served you well for years, mounts and now you wont the new one free of charge?
entitlement, entitlement....
get over your self, or find your self a better game. no one will miss you here.
I never said that Mk XII will be every bit as good as the new Mk XIV, I said that Mk XII's will be just as good as they were before the expansion. Nothing is going to suddenly "De-Stat" itself and become less than it was. It will only be less in relation to the new stuff.
Just because something else is "better" does not mean that what you have/had is now totally useless. If it was useful before the expansion, it will still be useful after.
The fact that you, and apparently, many others running around in Zone chat and on this forum fail to grasp this basic concept, and continue to want to label all existing items as "obsolete" and "useless" once X2 drops,... is endemic of the underlying problem in this game,...
People want to have the best toys, they want to be seen to have the best toys. They will whine and cry and stamp there feet when what they perceive as an investment, is no longer the shiniest bestest thing available.
Well if Mk X and Mk XI equipment was so "just as good" I wonder why Cryptic saw the demand for it was so low and removed it from all reputations everywhere. :rolleyes:
You're trying to make a logical point about the stats not changing which is valid. So I'll concede, stats on existing items won't change. Congratulations on your total internet victory. But in making your simplistic "logik" argument over the minor semantic quibble about stats, it is you who have completely missed the point.
The point of the thread is people paid for the best gear because it was the best gear which will no longer be best gear. That's not entitlement. That's not a "problem". Nobody here is saying that there's an expectation that upgraded gear (if even possible) should be free.
I'm simply saying that in light of the fact that the existing offerings will no longer be the best gear, everyone should stop buying it until they can make a more informed decision about whether to invest (yes, invest time and resources which are perfectly valid concerns for players of even a video game) in acquiring it.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
I skimmed through the list and it, for the most part, seems reasonable. Safe, at least, anyways.
Sorta.
There's no need to abstain from purchasing cash shop ships that you aren't buying for sheer power, including tier 5 ships. If say you were going to buy the Thunderchild to unlock an account-wide point defense turret, there's no need to wait to see if the Heavy Escort line will be upgradeable to tier 6.
Also, OP should add encouragement to level up R&D schools in preparation. Geko did warn us that there will be much more added to crafting and that she should prepare now.
And about the extreme caution encouraged ITT... I just hope this don't cause another global warming fiasco.
Also, OP should add encouragement to level up R&D schools in preparation. Geko did warn us that there will be much more added to crafting and that she should prepare now.
Can you link me to a quote where that was stated? I've heard this on the forums but can't find a source for it. In fact, the person who summarized Al's comments (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1185191) specifically said crafting would not be a part of the upgrade process (maybe he meant exclusively ships there and not gear?).
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
This is demonstrably false and makes no logical sense whatsoever. When Mk XI and Mk XII came out, I challenge you to try to tell me how Aegis (stuck at Mk X) was "just as useful" as those sets (particularly MACO Mk XII) before Season 9.5. You "could" use it and it was "competitive" but it wasn't top-end gear. Point blank and period.
It's only demonstrable the day after the expansion. Unfortunately also when it becomes testable...
The fact is, events of this nature in the past have little to no bearing on similar events of the future. Especially when the devs are learning from their past mistakes and are trying to avoid/fix them now.
Things have changed. We have the R&D system now. Come X2, R&D will allow us to upgrade existing items.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't exercise caution. Hell, I'm all with you on that. Just trying to point something out here.
The fact is, events of this nature in the past have little to no bearing on similar events of the future. Especially when the devs are learning from their past mistakes and are trying to avoid/fix them now.
We have demonstrable proof that the opposite is true. Season 9.5's rollout was an example of Cryptic learning? Or trying to avoid/fix previous mistakes? How so? What?
...The fact is, events of this nature in the past have little to no bearing on similar events of the future. Especially when the devs are learning from their past mistakes and are trying to avoid/fix them now.
Things have changed. We have the R&D system now. Come X2, R&D will allow us to upgrade existing items.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't exercise caution. Hell, I'm all with you on that. Just trying to point something out here.
The Devs have been releasing content in it's early state for most of the year. The Doff UI and the R&D you mentioned are examples of this. They have also said that all the content planned for Delta Rising "will not be relased with delta rising, and they have plans to release the Delta Rising content all the up to the next anniversary event".
There is nothing wrong with a Dev saying "Hey guys, we have this cool system, but even though it isn't finished yet, we want to share it with you!" or "Hey guys, we have this cool content, but for reasons beyond our control, we won't have alot of time to QA it. Bear with us and enjoy the content!".
But to pretend that Cryptic is not releasing content in an early/unfinished state is false. They have even admitted it. They are going to do it with Delta Rising. That does not mean I condone bashing the Devs or Delta Rising. I do think we should be honest.
It's from the R&D podcast, something like 38-40 min in. Specifically, Geko talked about the possibility of upgrading your MACO gear to "gold". Later, "someone" quoted Geko as saying something about "grind out that R&D now, before Delta Rising". So, some players speculate that the aforementioned MACO upgrade is related to Geko's urging to "grind out those R&D levels".
Also this is a perfect time to achieve 2nd internal goals, like finish to play all story missions, finish reputation system (and collect dilithium in the process), etc.
... Moderators, kindly do not merge this post with the other Season 10/DR reaction posts. This is a specific guide for players who need assistance navigating these uncertain times to calm specific anxiety.
When will people learn that putting in your post for moderators to not do something doesn't mean squat? We will do what we feel is right regardless of what said poster thinks so stop trying to tell us what to do kthx...
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
*rolls eyes at the moderator* Force and the reminders of power inspire neither respect nor obedience.
As to the OP's points:
1) I agree that buying things using ZEN or DIL for any other reason than the acquisition of a specific goal (a skin or console) is counter productive. The new content will purportedly be balanced for level 60, with the clear assumption that level 60 equipments will be required.
There is zero profit in Cryptic allowing you to have existing GEAR (not ships) be even remotely competitive at level 60 -- they'd rather you buy NEW Gear. The argument "well it won't be any weaker" is rapidly demonstrated as missing the key point by taking blue X gear into any Elite STF and seeing how well you do.
A few can do just fine. MOST cannot.
2) As always, there are people bashing Cryptic simply because they can, even though nothing they suggest has any logical validity. And there are people supporting anything Cryptic does even those some (lol, many) of Cryptic's actions counterproductive ... or at best, well, cryptic.
But there are few asking the real questions.
We know Cryptic is not inept at PR. LoR was very well done. There are two possibilities for why they are doling information out slowly. One of them, as suggested by some posters in this thread, is to take advantage of people who don't know what is coming. ZEN and DIL purchases (and to a lesser degree fleet purchases) made on the concept of "this is top-tier BIS gear" will be invalidated shortly .... money made on those now is literally icing on the cake because the user will have to turn right around and spend more resources to participate in the end game content.
The other possibility for such lack of PR is that some of the changes / additions are likely to be controversial. This is an extension of sorts to the first reason -- if they anticipate some people will unsub or not buy based on things in the new expansion, might as well get all they money you can from them now.
I would say this : it is very unlikely that anything in the game for sale now is either going to :
a) vanish or
b) go up in price
I would suggest that waiting for more information does not harm you and leaves you in a position from which, if things look good, you can go ahead and buy, and if they don't you can rethink what to spend your ZEN/DIL on.
The reverse -- buying as if nothing changed -- will lead to lots of lulzy complaining in the days after the DR release, people screaming they'd been cheated, blah blah blah. When those times come, I will be the first to say you were warned.
We have demonstrable proof that the opposite is true. Season 9.5's rollout was an example of Cryptic learning? Or trying to avoid/fix previous mistakes? How so? What?
Yes, even season 9.5. The entire R&D system was. It was refined and more readily available to players than the previous crafting system. The reputation revamp was also an example of them learning. Oh, and yes, even the trait system. Allow me to break each down for you.
The trait system. Mistake made: Implementing an uncapped reputation passive system despite their plans to continue releasing reputations. They fixed this by capping it before it got too out-of-control. Also, they refined the general trait system to give players more flexibility. Not learning from a mistake per se, but it does demonstrate that they're learning.
The reputation system. Mistake made: Making reputations not rewarding enough. They fixed this by giving players access to some MkXII items at early rep levels rather than weaker MkX and MkXI items as well as give free reputation shop items upon completion of any rep project. Oh, and let's not forget sponsorship tokens.
The research and development system. Mistake made: Making a generally worthless crafting system by not letting players craft higher-end gear as it was released. They of course fixed this by throwing the entire crafting system out and giving us a fresh new one. R&D materials are more easily accessible and less confusing that crafting mats and we not only have high-end gear available, but brand new gear as well.
The Devs have been releasing content in it's early state for most of the year. The Doff UI and the R&D you mentioned are examples of this. They have also said that all the content planned for Delta Rising "will not be relased with delta rising, and they have plans to release the Delta Rising content all the up to the next anniversary event".
There is nothing wrong with a Dev saying "Hey guys, we have this cool system, but even though it isn't finished yet, we want to share it with you!" or "Hey guys, we have this cool content, but for reasons beyond our control, we won't have alot of time to QA it. Bear with us and enjoy the content!".
But to pretend that Cryptic is not releasing content in an early/unfinished state is false. They have even admitted it. They are going to do it with Delta Rising. That does not mean I condone bashing the Devs or Delta Rising. I do think we should be honest.
No one is pretending they don't release unfinished content. Early though? Not necessarily. They have deadlines after all. I don't agree with them either though, for what it's worth.
Comments
if sto introduced a battlecloaking 15 console ship with full universal seating including 2 commanders, then offered the bind-on-pickup box for sale in the lobi store for 5000 lobi, thats pay-to-win. right? if the grind option is too far off the meter you kind of lose the ability to claim its a realistic option, save for a handful of full-time industrial-scale commercial farmers.
or is the argument that if it is even remotely possible that one could multi-box grind 14 hours a day for 18 months that its not actually p2w?
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Hilarious. Mostly trying to convince himself at this point.
But you know, at the end of the day, the players bankroll everything including your job and so demi-god complex aside, your station is dancing at the whim of the community you don't like and have such a hard time accepting.
And even if you do manage to get away with poor decisions and implementation, the respect or acknowledgement isn't automatically given away because you wave a developer flag around.
Fanboys or overly biased people who worship your every move did you a huge dis-service, however they aren't getting paid to be professional - you are.
The decision to post-pone the whole game for 4-7 weeks, put everyone on hold, and hold the game hostage was a super un-intelligent move.
You can't just wave the developer flag around "b-b-but I am a developer so blinders on!!!11".
Yeah the game is still up but you also got people telling us to stop spending in your game and I don't think there is anyone in the whole community who wouldn't have predicted that, except the developers.
Yes, it is that simple.
If that ship can be sold on the exchange for EC or traded to other players for some other form of barter, then no. It isn't pay2win. If I can trade a bottle of Chateau Picard for that ship, then it isn't pay2win.
Most ships sold on the Lobi Store are bind-on-equip, not bind-on-pickup.
Using your very strict (if unrealistic) hypothetical scenario, you could argue that it is pay2win. But such a thing has no comparable precedence in the game, thus the scenario itself is unrealistic.
If you want to use the Dyson Science Destroyer as your brilliant example, it falls flat on its face when you consider it was -- at one point -- entirely free. And the cost (in Lobi) is to make it more fair to those players who purchased those Qmendation things.
There is no meter.
You will not find people in STO come to a universal agreement on what constitutes a 'realistic' or 'unrealistic' option. The fact things can be acquired for free is what makes it pay4convenience, and not pay2win.
Just because you personally don't like the amount of time and effort invested into it doesn't mean it's unrealistic for all. Just unrealistic for you.
The argument is that if you can trade dilithium you earn for Zen, buy lockbox keys for EC, or buy things inside lockboxes for EC, then it isn't pay2win.
There are too many options, too many forms of currency conversion, too many forms of free currency earned simply by playing the game in order to fit any sort of rational definition of pay2win.
There is no solid paywall behind anything except perhaps the Veteran benefits. There never was. And there's no reason to believe that with Delta Rising that there ever will be in the future.
I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet heavily that there isn't going to be a solid paywall behind anything T6 in Delta Rising.
The only reason NOT to buy what you need when you need it, is if your one of the ones hung up on having the newest, shiniest "brand name" stuff.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I share the sentiments in the thread, though. Hold off buying a thing until X2 hits live, as the devs word isn't enough to rely on either..
will see who is fear mongering when all your ships are obsolete and consoles are useless, and you get forced into spending money:rolleyes:
Actually, that post was made quite a while ago for completely different reasons. And he's basically right.
That said, I would like to note an oversight in the OP: While the JHAS is being upgraded in some way, the fact remains that, once again, 'competitive' is not necessarily what we think it is - or what we would like it to be. Basically, the same thing applies to fleet and lockbox ships as to the JHAS. Caveat emptor. :P
(Ironically, I just rewatched the episode where the Enterprise first meets the Ferengi last night...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Umm, ya. Nothing is going to stop working or be reduced to T1 level. All consoles will continue to do what they did before and all ships will have all the stats they had before,...
Your comment is a perfect example of the "fear mongering" I and many others are talking about that's running rampant.
Outside of few special Rep sets/Items, nowhere in this game can you upgrade a Mk X weapon array to Mk XII, a Mk X deflector/engine/shield set to a Mk XII or a T1 ship to a T5 Fleet.
Just because they introduce a new expansion and add Mk XIII and Mk XIV gear, does not mean people should be able to upgrade their Mk XII's to the new level, or their T5/Fleet ships to the new T6/Fleet level.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
This is demonstrably false and makes no logical sense whatsoever. When Mk XI and Mk XII came out, I challenge you to try to tell me how Aegis (stuck at Mk X) was "just as useful" as those sets (particularly MACO Mk XII) before Season 9.5. You "could" use it and it was "competitive" but it wasn't top-end gear. Point blank and period.
I agree. I've highlighted this in the OP, thanks.
Every lock box you open is a vote FOR the status quo of Star Trek Online.
The point you missed is that the item you buy will be just as useful as it was. It's stats arent going to change, its not going to produce less damage/power/crit whatever it did,... it will do everything it did before the expansion. My comment was an item in relation to itself, NOT to something completely different of a completely different class.
I never said that Mk XII will be every bit as good as the new Mk XIV, I said that Mk XII's will be just as good as they were before the expansion. Nothing is going to suddenly "De-Stat" itself and become less than it was. It will only be less in relation to the new stuff.
Just because something else is "better" does not mean that what you have/had is now totally useless. If it was useful before the expansion, it will still be useful after.
The fact that you, and apparently, many others running around in Zone chat and on this forum fail to grasp this basic concept, and continue to want to label all existing items as "obsolete" and "useless" once X2 drops,... is endemic of the underlying problem in this game,...
People want to have the best toys, they want to be seen to have the best toys. They will whine and cry and stamp there feet when what they perceive as an investment, is no longer the shiniest bestest thing available.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Yes me too, i even went as far as making 2 fleet wide mails from the op's message and send it to all in my fleet.
And what if they come-out with a new tier 6 partol escort refit gold edtion, that have extra turnrate ect. ??? Is my partol escort refit, i just got 4 weeks ago still a good buy ??? NO, it will be $25 wasted...
it is going to cost you? go figure!
it's not fair you say?... is it fair for developers to work for free? when mercedes make a new model, they immediately gives them to all buyers that bought the old model.
should they make a new content that you cry about all the time on the forums, and then they should get squat. but YOU should get them for free because YOU bought a ship that served you well for years, mounts and now you wont the new one free of charge?
entitlement, entitlement....
get over your self, or find your self a better game. no one will miss you here.
Well if Mk X and Mk XI equipment was so "just as good" I wonder why Cryptic saw the demand for it was so low and removed it from all reputations everywhere. :rolleyes:
You're trying to make a logical point about the stats not changing which is valid. So I'll concede, stats on existing items won't change. Congratulations on your total internet victory. But in making your simplistic "logik" argument over the minor semantic quibble about stats, it is you who have completely missed the point.
The point of the thread is people paid for the best gear because it was the best gear which will no longer be best gear. That's not entitlement. That's not a "problem". Nobody here is saying that there's an expectation that upgraded gear (if even possible) should be free.
I'm simply saying that in light of the fact that the existing offerings will no longer be the best gear, everyone should stop buying it until they can make a more informed decision about whether to invest (yes, invest time and resources which are perfectly valid concerns for players of even a video game) in acquiring it.
There's no need to abstain from purchasing cash shop ships that you aren't buying for sheer power, including tier 5 ships. If say you were going to buy the Thunderchild to unlock an account-wide point defense turret, there's no need to wait to see if the Heavy Escort line will be upgradeable to tier 6.
Also, OP should add encouragement to level up R&D schools in preparation. Geko did warn us that there will be much more added to crafting and that she should prepare now.
And about the extreme caution encouraged ITT... I just hope this don't cause another global warming fiasco.
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Can you link me to a quote where that was stated? I've heard this on the forums but can't find a source for it. In fact, the person who summarized Al's comments (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1185191) specifically said crafting would not be a part of the upgrade process (maybe he meant exclusively ships there and not gear?).
The fact is, events of this nature in the past have little to no bearing on similar events of the future. Especially when the devs are learning from their past mistakes and are trying to avoid/fix them now.
Things have changed. We have the R&D system now. Come X2, R&D will allow us to upgrade existing items.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't exercise caution. Hell, I'm all with you on that. Just trying to point something out here.
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We have demonstrable proof that the opposite is true. Season 9.5's rollout was an example of Cryptic learning? Or trying to avoid/fix previous mistakes? How so? What?
Again please cite your source for this.
The Devs have been releasing content in it's early state for most of the year. The Doff UI and the R&D you mentioned are examples of this. They have also said that all the content planned for Delta Rising "will not be relased with delta rising, and they have plans to release the Delta Rising content all the up to the next anniversary event".
There is nothing wrong with a Dev saying "Hey guys, we have this cool system, but even though it isn't finished yet, we want to share it with you!" or "Hey guys, we have this cool content, but for reasons beyond our control, we won't have alot of time to QA it. Bear with us and enjoy the content!".
But to pretend that Cryptic is not releasing content in an early/unfinished state is false. They have even admitted it. They are going to do it with Delta Rising. That does not mean I condone bashing the Devs or Delta Rising. I do think we should be honest.
It's from the R&D podcast, something like 38-40 min in. Specifically, Geko talked about the possibility of upgrading your MACO gear to "gold". Later, "someone" quoted Geko as saying something about "grind out that R&D now, before Delta Rising". So, some players speculate that the aforementioned MACO upgrade is related to Geko's urging to "grind out those R&D levels".
Also this is a perfect time to achieve 2nd internal goals, like finish to play all story missions, finish reputation system (and collect dilithium in the process), etc.
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As to the OP's points:
1) I agree that buying things using ZEN or DIL for any other reason than the acquisition of a specific goal (a skin or console) is counter productive. The new content will purportedly be balanced for level 60, with the clear assumption that level 60 equipments will be required.
There is zero profit in Cryptic allowing you to have existing GEAR (not ships) be even remotely competitive at level 60 -- they'd rather you buy NEW Gear. The argument "well it won't be any weaker" is rapidly demonstrated as missing the key point by taking blue X gear into any Elite STF and seeing how well you do.
A few can do just fine. MOST cannot.
2) As always, there are people bashing Cryptic simply because they can, even though nothing they suggest has any logical validity. And there are people supporting anything Cryptic does even those some (lol, many) of Cryptic's actions counterproductive ... or at best, well, cryptic.
But there are few asking the real questions.
We know Cryptic is not inept at PR. LoR was very well done. There are two possibilities for why they are doling information out slowly. One of them, as suggested by some posters in this thread, is to take advantage of people who don't know what is coming. ZEN and DIL purchases (and to a lesser degree fleet purchases) made on the concept of "this is top-tier BIS gear" will be invalidated shortly .... money made on those now is literally icing on the cake because the user will have to turn right around and spend more resources to participate in the end game content.
The other possibility for such lack of PR is that some of the changes / additions are likely to be controversial. This is an extension of sorts to the first reason -- if they anticipate some people will unsub or not buy based on things in the new expansion, might as well get all they money you can from them now.
I would say this : it is very unlikely that anything in the game for sale now is either going to :
a) vanish or
b) go up in price
I would suggest that waiting for more information does not harm you and leaves you in a position from which, if things look good, you can go ahead and buy, and if they don't you can rethink what to spend your ZEN/DIL on.
The reverse -- buying as if nothing changed -- will lead to lots of lulzy complaining in the days after the DR release, people screaming they'd been cheated, blah blah blah. When those times come, I will be the first to say you were warned.
Yes, even season 9.5. The entire R&D system was. It was refined and more readily available to players than the previous crafting system. The reputation revamp was also an example of them learning. Oh, and yes, even the trait system. Allow me to break each down for you.
The trait system. Mistake made: Implementing an uncapped reputation passive system despite their plans to continue releasing reputations. They fixed this by capping it before it got too out-of-control. Also, they refined the general trait system to give players more flexibility. Not learning from a mistake per se, but it does demonstrate that they're learning.
The reputation system. Mistake made: Making reputations not rewarding enough. They fixed this by giving players access to some MkXII items at early rep levels rather than weaker MkX and MkXI items as well as give free reputation shop items upon completion of any rep project. Oh, and let's not forget sponsorship tokens.
The research and development system. Mistake made: Making a generally worthless crafting system by not letting players craft higher-end gear as it was released. They of course fixed this by throwing the entire crafting system out and giving us a fresh new one. R&D materials are more easily accessible and less confusing that crafting mats and we not only have high-end gear available, but brand new gear as well.
Shall I go on?
The last PriorityOne interviews with Al Rivera.
http://priorityonepodcast.com/po179/
About 38-42 minutes in, I believe.
No one is pretending they don't release unfinished content. Early though? Not necessarily. They have deadlines after all. I don't agree with them either though, for what it's worth.
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Now that is the kind of snark I come to the STO forums to read. Well done.
STOP USING COMMON SENSE.
That is not allowed here.
PvP? Everyone knows STO's PvP is the forums...