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Forums > Home› Support› PC, Network, and Other Technical Issues› Windows and General: PC, Network, and Other Technical Issues

Disconnect Problems (Investigating)

borg0vermindborg0vermind Member Posts: 498 Arc User
edited August 2014 in Windows and General: PC, Network, and Other Technical Issues
Since the weekend patch, the game has become again unplayable.
This has happened again about a month ago and laster about two weeks.

Here's how it goes:
1. Takes around 1 minute to get the login menu from launcher.
2. Takes around 3 minutes to get the game launched after login.
3. Takes 1-2 more minutes to get to character selection.
4. Takes 1 minute to load another character screen.
5. When entering a character I usually get a logout timeout or 2, after which it finally enters.
6. While in-game there are permanent lags of around 1 minute.
After 1-2 minutes of total lag, the game usually DCs again in 3 of 4 cases.

Practically, it took me over 1 hour to get some doff mission started on 3 characters, something that suppose to take 5 minutes in normal circumstances.


Notes:
I have no network or PC issues. I have a high end PC that can run any known game maxed out.
I have top of the line fiber connection with 8ms 'ping' to the main country node.

So what is happening ?
Post edited by borg0vermind on
«134567

Comments

  • milos1000milos1000 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I have the same problem too.Please fix that because i didn't play the game about 2-3 days
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Version of windows?

    I have a pos 10 year old computer with XP and I haven't had this issue as of yet. I am aware of others experiencing it and different OS seems to be the common denominator for whatever reason
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • sabijacsabijac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    milos1000 wrote: »
    I have the same problem too.Please fix that because i didn't play the game about 2-3 days

    Same here i am from RS and i am new player(2-3 weeks) .. all was fine on start game worked ok but last couple of days ping is like 2000+ and lag lag lag .... server not responding ... bah ..

    Best part about this **** is i was going to spend $ on this game .. lucky this happens before i trowed away my money on this **** ...
  • milos1000milos1000 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My lag started when they last time updated the game 31.7.2014. i guess
  • borg0vermindborg0vermind Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    dahminus wrote: »
    Version of windows?

    I have a pos 10 year old computer with XP and I haven't had this issue as of yet. I am aware of others experiencing it and different OS seems to be the common denominator for whatever reason
    7x64 SP1, but it is most unlikely that this is a problem since the game did work excellent up to a patch, then acted like this and now the problem repeats just after another patch.
  • sabijacsabijac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    borg0vermind wrote: »
    7x64 SP1, but it is most unlikely that this is a problem since the game did work excellent up to a patch, then acted like this and now the problem repeats just after another patch.

    W7 64b SP1 here and lol if that have anything with this lag because what moron would make patch that wont work on system that 70% of planet is using ....
  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No problems on windows 8.1 just so you Devs know
    JtaDmwW.png
  • milos1000milos1000 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    This isnt about the windows because in my house have lag , on my uncles house dont have lag and we are using the same windows type but he has better computer
  • sabijacsabijac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I do think this is EU related problem only tho ...
    i have bunch of US friends and not one of them having this problems but couple of EU friends i have in this game all have same problem as i do ..
  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    borg0vermind wrote: »
    Since the weekend patch, the game has become again unplayable.
    This has happened again about a month ago and laster about two weeks.

    Here's how it goes:
    1. Takes around 1 minute to get the login menu from launcher.
    2. Takes around 3 minutes to get the game launched after login.
    3. Takes 1-2 more minutes to get to character selection.
    4. Takes 1 minute to load another character screen.
    5. When entering a character I usually get a logout timeout or 2, after which it finally enters.
    6. While in-game there are permanent lags of around 1 minute.
    After 1-2 minutes of total lag, the game usually DCs again in 3 of 4 cases.

    Practically, it took me over 1 hour to get some doff mission started on 3 characters, something that suppose to take 5 minutes in normal circumstances.


    Notes:
    I have no network or PC issues. I have a high end PC that can run any known game maxed out.
    I have top of the line fiber connection with 8ms 'ping' to the main country node.

    So what is happening ?

    If you have no network issues then you don't mind posting your information that is stickied in the new forum this has been moved to.

    Remember just because you have an 8ms ping to your country node (or to any node) doesn't mean the connection to Cryptic along the line doesn't have problems.
    Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care.
    Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
    Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113


  • koristo1koristo1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I am experiencing same problem... sto is the only game i have that constantly DCs and lags, takes minutes even to load the launcher...when entering a new zone i'm patching at 0-2KBs/sec. Last time i played using this connection a couple of months ago game worked fine without any lags or DCs...now it's unplayable.



    Tracing route to patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 11 ms 99 ms 99 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
    2 14 ms 15 ms 15 ms 109.98.192.254
    3 15 ms 15 ms 15 ms 10.0.223.177
    4 60 ms 59 ms 61 ms 10.0.223.93
    5 64 ms 63 ms 64 ms 10.0.243.221
    6 62 ms 63 ms 62 ms 10.0.200.9
    7 61 ms 59 ms 59 ms 10.0.200.46
    8 59 ms 60 ms 59 ms 10.0.240.238
    9 60 ms 60 ms 60 ms xe-0-3-0-1.r02.frnkge03.de.bb.gin.ntt.net [213.1
    98.77.141]
    10 57 ms 57 ms 57 ms be3049.agr21.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.1
    5.109]
    11 58 ms 59 ms 59 ms be2184.ccr41.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.4
    8.70]
    12 66 ms 66 ms 66 ms be2261.ccr41.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.37
    .29]
    13 70 ms 70 ms 70 ms be2182.ccr21.lpl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.77
    .246]
    14 149 ms 148 ms 148 ms be2386.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44
    .161]
    15 229 ms 211 ms 207 ms te3-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.
    134]
    16 164 ms 161 ms 161 ms 38.111.40.114
    17 145 ms * 144 ms patchserver2.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41]


    Trace complete.
  • crypticfrostcrypticfrost Member Posts: 1,479 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2014
    This is being investigated. Thanks for the reports.
    STO QA Team
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    borg0vermind wrote: »
    7x64 SP1, but it is most unlikely that this is a problem since the game did work excellent up to a patch, then acted like this and now the problem repeats just after another patch.

    Hey, I'm aware how idiotic it sounds. But time and time again it's the same version of windows that seems affected. Different regions, different isps, different hardware, but if one happens to have another rig in the house with a different OS...they don't have the issue

    So /shrug I guess
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • crimpson7crimpson7 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    As all of you are aware we do not connect straight to Cryptic's servers. Our connection "hops" between 30 different servers. Ran a Tracert yesterday and consulted some technicians. My ISP is fine (43 ms Ping) considering I dont have a high tech connection (just the good old ADSL) and I am using a 7 year old PC with Windows 7 Ultimate (PC is modded to its limits but it is excellent -all mxedout and still they run smooth) but when we arrive to hop 10 (That is a Cogentco server) some kind of bottleneck starts. So the problem is not at Cryptic's main server, nor on our end. so prett much everyone that has his connection rerouted through certain Cogentco servers is experiencing this lag. (And it is a vicious bottleneck Ping went from 99 to 183 ms).
    The Wildcards Fleet =/\=
    Admiral T'Vanto of the I.R.W. Dreaded Balerion (Scimitar Dreadnought Warbird) "Burn them All!"
    Admiral Atraxis of the U.S.S. Daskalogiannis (Avenger class Cruiser) "I am Iron Cat!"
  • karr007karr007 Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Greetings i am From the EU as well and the game for me is literally unplayable. When i login it barely loads my characters and when i press the "Play" button i am disconnected from the Login server(Or at least that is what it says with red letters). This is happening for a second day now. Any thoughts on this? (The game worked fine until Monday afternoon GMT+2)
  • leokesler2012leokesler2012 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    crypticfrost wrote: »
    This is being investigated. Thanks for the reports.

    By the way, I live in Brazil and I am affected for this issue too. It is almost impossible to login and stay in game. The message "server not responding" shows all time.

    Sometimes the lag are higher thans 800ms. And this happen using US and EU proxy and without any proxy.


    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms MyRouter.Heaven [192.168.10.1]
    2 14 ms 30 ms 7 ms 174.251.40.189.isp.timbrasil.com.br [189.40.251
    3 4 ms 5 ms 4 ms 10.223.10.2
    4 7 ms 10 ms 10 ms 10.223.229.45
    5 8 ms 6 ms 6 ms 10.223.238.46
    6 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms te0-5-0-1.riodejaneiro2.rio.seabone.net [213.14
    7 107 ms 106 ms 106 ms xe-1-3-0.miami15.mia.seabone.net [195.22.199.11
    8 106 ms 106 ms 106 ms xe-7-2-3.miami15.mia.seabone.net [195.22.199.16
    9 106 ms 107 ms 107 ms te0-0-0-4.ccr21.mia03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.5
    10 109 ms 107 ms 107 ms be2054.ccr21.mia01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.8
    11 147 ms 147 ms 147 ms be2122.ccr41.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.2
    12 140 ms 139 ms 139 ms be2170.mpd21.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3
    13 139 ms 140 ms 138 ms be2150.mpd21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3
    14 144 ms 144 ms 144 ms be2095.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3
    15 146 ms 145 ms 145 ms te4-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [66.28.4.4
    16 156 ms 145 ms 158 ms 38.111.40.114
    17 144 ms 143 ms 143 ms patchserver2.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41].



    Connection: 50/30Mbits, Live TIM provider, RJ, Brazil.

    Because this issue, I almost dont get the chance to play in last research event.
  • borg0vermindborg0vermind Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sabijac wrote: »
    I do think this is EU related problem only tho ...
    I concur.
    All my fleet members from US seem to fully operational.

    -LE-
    My traced connection:


    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms
    2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms
    3 8 ms 4 ms 4 ms [This is main country node]
    4 36 ms 36 ms 36 ms [To UE mains]
    5 39 ms 39 ms 39 ms
    6 39 ms 40 ms 39 ms
    7 36 ms 35 ms 36 ms
    8 36 ms 34 ms 35 ms xe-0-3-0-1.r02.frnkge03.de.bb.gin.ntt.net [213.198.77.141]
    9 38 ms 37 ms 37 ms be3049.agr21.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.15.109]
    10 41 ms 37 ms 36 ms be2184.ccr41.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.48.70]
    11 48 ms 49 ms 48 ms be2261.ccr41.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.37.29]
    12 53 ms 53 ms 53 ms be2182.ccr21.lpl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.77.246]
    13 125 ms 125 ms 126 ms be2386.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.161]
    14 123 ms 125 ms 122 ms te3-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.134]
    15 129 ms 142 ms 129 ms 38.111.40.114
    16 124 ms 125 ms 124 ms patchserver2.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41]

    Trace complete.

    As you can see, the timings are excellent.
  • cachat2000cachat2000 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    From Australia here same issue take me around 10min to log in some times longer if I get a log in timeout after selecting my character, then if I get into the game the next loading screening has a 50% chance of timing out.

    Presently the game is unplayable for me if its gonna take this long to log in I'm just gonna playing something else.
  • grouchyotakugrouchyotaku Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    leokesler2012 wrote: »
    By the way, I live in Brazil and I am affected for this issue too. It is almost impossible to login and stay in game. The message "server not responding" shows all time.

    Sometimes the lag are higher thans 800ms. And this happen using US and EU proxy and without any proxy.


    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms MyRouter.Heaven [192.168.10.1]
    2 14 ms 30 ms 7 ms 174.251.40.189.isp.timbrasil.com.br [189.40.251
    3 4 ms 5 ms 4 ms 10.223.10.2
    4 7 ms 10 ms 10 ms 10.223.229.45
    5 8 ms 6 ms 6 ms 10.223.238.46
    6 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms te0-5-0-1.riodejaneiro2.rio.seabone.net [213.14
    7 107 ms 106 ms 106 ms xe-1-3-0.miami15.mia.seabone.net [195.22.199.11
    8 106 ms 106 ms 106 ms xe-7-2-3.miami15.mia.seabone.net [195.22.199.16
    9 106 ms 107 ms 107 ms te0-0-0-4.ccr21.mia03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.5
    10 109 ms 107 ms 107 ms be2054.ccr21.mia01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.8
    11 147 ms 147 ms 147 ms be2122.ccr41.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.2
    12 140 ms 139 ms 139 ms be2170.mpd21.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3
    13 139 ms 140 ms 138 ms be2150.mpd21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3
    14 144 ms 144 ms 144 ms be2095.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3
    15 146 ms 145 ms 145 ms te4-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [66.28.4.4
    16 156 ms 145 ms 158 ms 38.111.40.114
    17 144 ms 143 ms 143 ms patchserver2.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41].



    Connection: 50/30Mbits, Live TIM provider, RJ, Brazil.

    Because this issue, I almost dont get the chance to play in last research event.
    borg0vermind wrote: »
    I concur.
    All my fleet members from US seem to fully operational.

    -LE-
    My traced connection:


    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms
    2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms
    3 8 ms 4 ms 4 ms [This is main country node]
    4 36 ms 36 ms 36 ms [To UE mains]
    5 39 ms 39 ms 39 ms
    6 39 ms 40 ms 39 ms
    7 36 ms 35 ms 36 ms
    8 36 ms 34 ms 35 ms xe-0-3-0-1.r02.frnkge03.de.bb.gin.ntt.net [213.198.77.141]
    9 38 ms 37 ms 37 ms be3049.agr21.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.15.109]
    10 41 ms 37 ms 36 ms be2184.ccr41.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.48.70]
    11 48 ms 49 ms 48 ms be2261.ccr41.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.37.29]
    12 53 ms 53 ms 53 ms be2182.ccr21.lpl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.77.246]
    13 125 ms 125 ms 126 ms be2386.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.161]
    14 123 ms 125 ms 122 ms te3-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.134]
    15 129 ms 142 ms 129 ms 38.111.40.114
    16 124 ms 125 ms 124 ms patchserver2.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41]

    Trace complete.

    As you can see, the timings are excellent.

    So both of you have shown that your issue isn't being caused by network latency... But what about Network Port access, sustained connection throughput, and connection quality with 'dropped packets' issues ??? This is what the 'Net Test' and 'Path Ping' diagnostics are for...

    'Path Ping' (windows command 'pathping') uses the same syntax as 'Trace Route' (e.g. 'tracert')

    and 'Net Test' is described in this thread... http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=225155
  • calintane753calintane753 Member Posts: 289 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Same problem here

    • Italy
    • Telecom Italia


    Thanks!
  • efialtis0efialtis0 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Same problem here Greece - Wind.
  • hyefatherhyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I have about half of these problems. TBH tho anyone of them could make your game unplayable and strip away all what little enjoyment you do get from playing a mmo. What can we do. Nobody will listen to us or take us seriously. I just don't know anymore.
  • feru82feru82 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Same problem from Argentina.
  • borg0vermindborg0vermind Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm a certified CISCO network engineer and I've tested a lot of other things, including what you mentioned. Of course that a thing like packet loss would be alarming, but it's not happening.
    The problem is at least as further as the intercontinental connection between US an EU...that or something server side.
    So no issue whatsoever on our side of the continent.
    My logical assumption at this point is that the inter-continental traffic type is set on low priority and/or has filtering or bandwidth / throughput problems.

    When I'll have more spare time I will try to investigate further.
  • grouchyotakugrouchyotaku Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    borg0vermind wrote: »
    I'm a certified CISCO network engineer and I've tested a lot of other things, including what you mentioned. Of course that a thing like packet loss would be alarming, but it's not happening.
    The problem is at least as further as the intercontinental connection between US an EU...that or something server side.
    So no issue whatsoever on our side of the continent.
    My logical assumption at this point is that the inter-continental traffic type is set on low priority and/or has filtering or bandwidth / throughput problems.

    When I'll have more spare time I will try to investigate further.

    The 'Path Ping' (e.g. 'pathping' command, with the same syntax as the 'tracert' command) is specific to the Windows O.S. and will check for packet drop on a node by node basis for the entire route to the destination.

    This will show if the problems are caused by congestion on the Internet backbone, or if theirs a local ISP issue involved as well... (And some of the recent 'Path Ping' results posted have shown a local ISP congestion issues...)

    Packet priority may be part of the issue, as by Internet routing rules, streaming media connections (e.g. 'Netflix') are given priority for limited bandwidth...
  • sabijacsabijac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    grouchyotaku wrote: »
    The 'Path Ping' (e.g. 'pathping' command, with the same syntax as the 'tracert' command) is specific to the Windows O.S. and will check for packet drop on a node by node basis for the entire route to the destination.

    This will show if the problems are caused by congestion on the Internet backbone, or if theirs a local ISP issue involved as well... (And some of the recent 'Path Ping' results posted have shown a local ISP congestion issues...)

    Packet priority may be part of the issue, as by Internet routing rules, streaming media connections (e.g. 'Netflix') are given priority for limited bandwidth...


    What is your point ?

    I have 27 online games on my PC ...
    I play clan wars in WOT
    I play with my clan WT
    I play tournaments in 5-6 games more every day
    They all work perfect ping is minimal as always

    STO is unplayable

    You see my point ?

    I dont want to waste "MY" time with finding out what's wrong because problems is not on my side .. those who are paid for maintenance need to start earning they $
    I am not here to do their job i am here to spend money on game if i find it enjoyable and it's sure not when i cant even log in on something they want me to spend my money on...
  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sabijac wrote: »
    What is your point ?

    I have 27 online games on my PC ...
    I play clan wars in WOT
    I play with my clan WT
    I play tournaments in 5-6 games more every day
    They all work perfect ping is minimal as always

    STO is unplayable

    You see my point ?

    I dont want to waste "MY" time with finding out what's wrong because problems is not on my side .. those who are paid for maintenance need to start earning they $
    I am not here to do their job i am here to spend money on game if i find it enjoyable and it's sure not when i cant even log in on something they want me to spend my money on...

    Just because some games work, doesn't mean all does. They don't all go the same route. ;)
    Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care.
    Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
    Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113


  • sabijacsabijac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    askray wrote: »
    Just because some games work, doesn't mean all does. They don't all go the same route. ;)

    I don't want to be rude ..
    but 26 games from 27 are not "some games" that are all games ...
    And btw this is not small problem that half of people in EU cant play your game this is major fck up from your side how about you take patching and running your game more serious ?
    People wont spend money on some product and then find out they cant even log in game ..
    I know i wont now for sure...

    So don't tell us that game that was running fine before now wont let us log in because we have internet problems .. that is just lol ...

    Instead of making such a lame posts about problems at our end try figuring out what has changed from like week ago and made half EU unable to play ...
    There are tons of people more who cant log in they are just to lazy to post here or just don't want to waste their time posting and then getting replays like : hey it's problem at your end your internet connection is bad or whatever ..

    I want to see posts like : we are working on problem or fix is coming or bla bla ...
    Pff .. i find this kinda insulting to player base ... if you don't see a problem when half EU cant log on i seriously think you guys need to change profession or go see a doctor lol ...

    And again sry if you find this post insulting or something but this is reality ...
  • grouchyotakugrouchyotaku Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sabijac wrote: »
    I don't want to be rude ..
    but 26 games from 27 are not "some games" that are all games .......

    Now this would be true if those 'other' games were located in the same physical location as the STO Servers... Different locations on the Internet will have different connection paths and different performance metrics...

    So you say its not your Internet connection ??? This is easy enough to prove, just post some network diagnostic results and show everyone the truth behind your claims...
  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sabijac wrote: »
    I don't want to be rude ..
    but 26 games from 27 are not "some games" that are all games ...
    And btw this is not small problem that half of people in EU cant play your game this is major fck up from your side how about you take patching and running your game more serious ?
    People wont spend money on some product and then find out they cant even log in game ..
    I know i wont now for sure...

    So don't tell us that game that was running fine before now wont let us log in because we have internet problems .. that is just lol ...

    Instead of making such a lame posts about problems at our end try figuring out what has changed from like week ago and made half EU unable to play ...
    There are tons of people more who cant log in they are just to lazy to post here or just don't want to waste their time posting and then getting replays like : hey it's problem at your end your internet connection is bad or whatever ..

    I want to see posts like : we are working on problem or fix is coming or bla bla ...
    Pff .. i find this kinda insulting to player base ... if you don't see a problem when half EU cant log on i seriously think you guys need to change profession or go see a doctor lol ...

    And again sry if you find this post insulting or something but this is reality ...

    Honestly? It's not half the EU playerbase. If it was, there would be thousands of players complaining. I'm sorry this isn't the answer you want, but I'm a volunteer not a paid employee so honestly I don't have to sugar coat it. :P There could be numerous reasons and yes, because 1 game out of the 26 games you play is having issues it still could be an ISP issue somewhere along the line.

    Frost said they are investigating HOWEVER, the trace routes help LOCATE the problem. If you aren't willing to help figure out where the problem is then you can't expect people to magically fix a problem.
    Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care.
    Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
    Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113


This discussion has been closed.