Guess im to old to understand:(

jtmarsh

I'm 37 and when STO came out I was all but retired from computer games. Was left playing 80's and 90's style games on my iphones and kids DS. After all I played Elite Force 2 PVP to death!! In fact that was my last PC game!

Then came STO!! A Trek MMO?? First I knew what a MMO was but I never played one. You want to know how lame I was?? 1 month after it came out I jumped on to the forums and saw one of you all talking about end game. I was like wha!?!? I just started playing and the game is ending?? I thought these games lasted a long time! Then someone online after laughing and then laughing then most of zone laughing explained to me what it meant. I still don't know why it would be called end game and not continuing game but.. oh well:)

So I learned about MMO as I went. I love this game and its still the only one I play. My son is now playing it. I have had my issues. I don't like DEV saying this will be done and then it does not. Bad way to run a business. Also was real mad with F2P, vet rewards ending and the simple fact of throwing payers and lifers under the bus. So much so I let my sub run out just over 1100 days and went free to play. So Cryptic has had its problems.

That being said this new Delta move is the best thing Cryptic has done in years!! New content, new ships, new lvl increase. But But I have spent money on stuff??? So what so did I! Galaxy X and Oddy 3 pack. But ill dock them in a minute for the new stuff. Just like I docked my T1-T4 ships. Its called game progression. Its a reward crackheads!! But my fleet stuff I paid money to get!! Well that was your choice. I paid not a dime on fleet stuff. I mined!! If you choose to take a shortcut and spend money on keys and fleet stuff that was your choice.

A game is meant to go forward. Not stay back because you spent cash on your favorite ship. Cryptic is being nice. I would not of gave you any chance to upgrade you lockbox ships or fleet ships. They should be treated just like T1 ships. Gone for better ships that you earn.

Guess i'm to old to understand the hate.

Oh! One more thing! What you call grind I call a fun game. You call stf's a grind?? I call HGE and the rest "like my call out name" FUN!

daqhegh

I'm 29 and I feel your pain, my friend.

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mirrorchaos

jtmarsh wrote: »

I'm 37 and when STO came out I was all but retired from computer games. Was left playing 80's and 90's style games on my iphones and kids DS. After all I played Elite Force 2 PVP to death!! In fact that was my last PC game!

Then came STO!! A Trek MMO?? First I knew what a MMO was but I never played one. You want to know how lame I was?? 1 month after it came out I jumped on to the forums and saw one of you all talking about end game. I was like wha!?!? I just started playing and the game is ending?? I thought these games lasted a long time! Then someone online after laughing and then laughing then most of zone laughing explained to me what it meant. I still don't know why it would be called end game and not continuing game but.. oh well:)

So I learned about MMO as I went. I love this game and its still the only one I play. My son is now playing it. I have had my issues. I don't like DEV saying this will be done and then it does not. Bad way to run a business. Also was real mad with F2P, vet rewards ending and the simple fact of throwing payers and lifers under the bus. So much so I let my sub run out just over 1100 days and went free to play. So Cryptic has had its problems.

That being said this new Delta move is the best thing Cryptic has done in years!! New content, new ships, new lvl increase. But But I have spent money on stuff??? So what so did I! Galaxy X and Oddy 3 pack. But ill dock them in a minute for the new stuff. Just like I docked my T1-T4 ships. Its called game progression. Its a reward crackheads!! But my fleet stuff I paid money to get!! Well that was your choice. I paid not a dime on fleet stuff. I mined!! If you choose to take a shortcut and spend money on keys and fleet stuff that was your choice.

A game is meant to go forward. Not stay back because you spent cash on your favorite ship. Cryptic is being nice. I would not of gave you any chance to upgrade you lockbox ships or fleet ships. They should be treated just like T1 ships. Gone for better ships that you earn.

Guess i'm to old to understand the hate.

Oh! One more thing! What you call grind I call a fun game. You call stf's a grind?? I call HGE and the rest "like my call out name" FUN!

sure, but it shouldnt be left behind as well. one thinks too much of the future and forgets their past and roots to what brought them to where ever in the first place, the next thing you know someone is calling someone else a n00b and ignorantly forgetting they were once the same, a new player brought to the game for the lore and how good it was... same for haters hating other haters, like that in the quote. but maybe im too silly to realize my own hypocrisy to realize it as well? :rolleyes: whats with that anyway?

jonsills

Well, Val, how many people bought that $25 TOS package specifically for the T1 TOS Connie? (Hint: Probably almost as many as have been whining about wanting a T5 Connie.)

When you spent money on lockbox stuff, were you truly expecting that it would be the New Shiny forever? That way lies stagnancy, and the end of the game - at which point none of the stuff you bought is worth anything any more...

aloishammer

jtmarsh wrote: »

Guess i'm to old to understand the hate.

I'm 47 and it all makes perfect sense to me. -shrug-

hipachilles

Agreed. I think most of the players who are whining the most are those who do PVP mostly and don't want to have to lower themselves to being a "PVE Hero" for story content, which is clearly beneath them. To continue being uber-leet in PVP, they will have to buy new weapons, ships, consoles, and maybe even (God forbid) have to alter their playstyle. These players tend to be the ones most active on the forums, and as a result, have a disproportionate voice when reacting to game changes.

For the rest of the players, this is great news. The loudest cries have been against the end-game grind and the desire for more scripted content to advance the Trek storyline. Many players wouldn't even play this game if it wasn't for the Star Trek intellectual property it was based on.

I think it just doesn't help that many players (like you and I) come from the single-player Trek video game background and aren't used to the idea of PVP-oriented concerns. We just aren't regular MMO players and have no love for end-game content the way we love the storyline advancement content.

But I, for one, am with you. New levels, ranks, powers, missions, story, and ships are a wonderful thing when compared to reputation grinds, resource sinks, and lockboxes.

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jtmarsh

valoreah wrote: »

I'm curious, how many of your T1 ships did you spend hundreds (possibly a lot more) of dollars on? Some people spent A LOT of real money getting those lockbox ships.

I got a bug ship by buying a key for 2mill last year.. Does that count? You all choose to spend hundreds instead of playing the game. You all choose to take a short cut instead of mining dill. Not my fault.

I mined my TRIBBLE off. I ran so many STF's that I have full adapted MACO for I think 6 of my BO's. I spent hours at the academy exchanging duty officers so I can get the correct ones for fleet projects. I searched all over the DS9 zones for years to get the Strange Alien mission. Then spent traces to power it. Then that in turn to make rare consoles. I spent time buying and selling consoles. Making and spending hundreds of millions EC.

Paying real money?
Sure!! 18 bridge officers, Every Outfit, Defiant interior, TOS interior, 3X Oddy, Galaxy X, Extra bank and inventory slots, Stuff I am sure I am not remembering.

Ill dock my ships and all of there consoles in a tribble minute for new stuff!

BTW Consoles! I had the damn best ones I could get from the Powered Alien Artifact. But tossed them on my shuttles to get the best fleet ones. I also tossed my 3X oddy I paid real money for to get my Fleet Defiant. Just like I tossed my Galaxy X when the Oddy came out.

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captainzhei

I have never understood the hate either. When I purchased something off of the store, I always considered my purchase to be a donation to the developers for letting me play this totally cool free game with lots of things to blow up and ships that look (almost) exactly like the show, as well as look at some cool fan-like new ships for a series I've loved since I was 4 years old. And in return for that donation, the developers are saying thank you by letting me pick something off of their store. That's probably why I buy based on design and aesthetic more than capability.

jtmarsh

valoreah wrote: »

Someone at some point spent real money to buy that key to put it on the exchange for you. And I'm sure you got the bug ship by opening up only 1 lockbox. :rolleyes:

Actually I opened a bunch of boxes!! How do you know they spent real money?? I have been putting Keys on the exchange on avg every 3 days by mining dill and exchanging it to zen and then buying a key:) Not a dollar spent lol


EDIT IT WAS NOT A LOCKBOX BUT IT WAS PURCHASING A DUTY PACK. Sorry I kinda forgot that. BUT I did buy the pack from the exchange

valenn1

jtmarsh wrote: »

I got a bug ship by buying a key for 2mill last year.. Does that count?

A Bugship from a Lockbox.
I wonder what Lockbox that was, must have missed one.

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jtmarsh

valenn1 wrote: »

A Bugsip from a Lockbox.
I wonder what Lockbox that was, must have missed one.

They offer it about once a year or so. Watch the forums or facebook or that little window on your launcher:)

jtmarsh

valoreah wrote: »

LMAO! Ok... Zen just appears out of thin air from Unicorn farts and that's what Cryptic/PWE are paying for everything with... :rolleyes:

Mine does not come Unicorn farts:( Mine comes from mining;)

jtmarsh

sopwithsnipe wrote: »

I got my bugship the second time I opened a survivor pack during the last promotion. Didn't open any lockboxes. :P

I told you I was old!!! That's where mine came form as well. NOT LOCKBOX! I told you have no memory lol

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aloishammer

jtmarsh wrote: »

Mine does not come Unicorn farts:( Mine comes from mining;)

Yes, but the ultimate source for Zen is real money. Somebody, somewhere, at some time, paid for that Zen. Where you get it doesn't change its ultimate source, and there are only 3 ultimate sources: real-money purchases, LTS/Gold Subscriber stipends, and the occasional livestream giveaway which is so insignificant as to have only been mentioned for completeness.

jtmarsh

valoreah wrote: »

And how's that mining paying for the game? It's a no-brainer that people are spending real cash on the game.

Maybe you missed this...

Paying real money?
Sure!! 18 bridge officers, Every Outfit, Defiant interior, TOS interior, 3X Oddy, Galaxy X, Extra bank and inventory slots, Stuff I am sure I am not remembering.

Oh Also when I went F2P after 1100 days I had to buy a credit increase token. Also not to mention paying for 1100 days.

adamkafei

I get why some people have a problem with new ships and their curent ships becoming obsolete, some players like that ship for whatever reason, for me it's the Excelsior, I've loved that ship since I first laid eyes on it and as a result I own all three current variants, hopefully there will be a T6 one in which case, again, I will arrange one but I know that most ships at T5 wont get that treatment. Equally I know of only one person who is willingly subpar.

Game progression is always good, especially when there is story involved in it, I get bored when I'm forced to repeat the same stuff day in, day out because there is nothing new to do, I would be much happier with the game if there was a new featured mission series every fortnight which could be done by a 5 man team of devs (1 content designer/coder, 1 environment artist, 1 NPC artist and a couple of bug fixers), maybe have two of those teams doing it, but that would be enough to keep a lot of players from getting bored as every two weeks there would be something brand new to do.

catstarsto

I think the problem is because, lets say you worked or paid yourway to owning ocean front property...you where set for life. the beach was right there, then the governor decides to add on a few miles of land to your propertys edge making the beach further away from your resorts and docks. Now all of that time you spent refining stuff and property are obsolete....u have to start all over again to adjust to the new distance. Sure you own more property now but the cost to restructure your assets has increased. and on top of that, you have the activists trying to limit your growth and add penaltiys to your progress and success, nerf baiters if u will. anytime you try to expand you will be facing an uphill battle. if the addition turns out to be good...it will probably be taken away again because ether the D. Dastardlys in the company feel like playing Indian giver or they once again listen to snotty nerds trying to dictate to other players. it doesnt really matter to me anymore, i just come to the game to say hi now and again. my little sister has taken a new interest in it lately, im glad shes having fun but i just cant get into it anymore (ive been bitten too many times by the company and player alike) lol, just today i popped on and was invited to an stf, i was horrible...i forgot what my toon had and could do, my team even suggested a replacement for me so i logged out. my time in sto has just passed.




now as for the request for teir 1 ships to be made t5, the only reason is for people who still enjoy classic trek...the look and style that started it all. i myself wouldnt mind playig out tos themed foundry missions in a connie with tos era npcs in the story. its what we like and what some of us still want. being laughed at by young people who salivate over big streamlined plastic shinys with flashing lights maybe be great for u, but some of us like to browse the antique shop sometimes as its just as fun for us. a model T is lame to a millennial but to someone who grew up around em its a fond memory they would like the comfort of knowing its still around...in a star trek game the option should still be open for people who want the option. u cant tell me the episodes of DS9 where they where in the TOS era wasent cool! Dax did look good in the uniform ^^

jtmarsh

aloishammer wrote: »

Yes, but the ultimate source for Zen is real money. Somebody, somewhere, at some time, paid for that Zen. Where you get it doesn't change its ultimate source, and there are only 3 ultimate sources: real-money purchases, LTS/Gold Subscriber stipends, and the occasional livestream giveaway which is so insignificant as to have only been mentioned for completeness.

There are plenty of stuff that can be bought for real money that I & others have not waited for to mine. The ships, the clothes, the bridges. Cant get those cstore stuff in exchange.

My point it some people when bat sh*t crazy and spent hundreds on keys. Or the fleets. Or think its grinding to be forced to run a stf. That is not my fault. The choices should not force this game to stop progress. You should want to do it all over again in new missions to get the new stuff. Its called playing!!

jtmarsh

sopwithsnipe wrote: »

My Connie cost me $50 bucks.

I bought that pack for the interior. Did it cost $50?? I forgot that lol.

crypticarmsman

With regard to T6 ships, I think a lot of the shock derives from previous comments by the former EP Dan Stahl, who had said for years that they did plan to up the Level cap to 60; BUT that they were leaning away from doing actual T6 ships because of all the real money players had spent for C-Store ships, and they didn't want to outright invalidate that expenditure; so they'd find a different way to do it.

Also, look at the current ship system in that:

You have the 'classic/original' version of a cannon ship at Tier 1, 2 or 3

Then

The 'Refit Version' (in the C-Store that costs money) of the same ship at Tier 5.

Why? Because the STO developers realize that many fans want to fly their favorite 'Hero ship' (be it the 'star' class ship from one of Star Trek's TV or film series; or a canon ship they saw in a TV episode or film) at MAX character level. Now, while there have been some ships CBS themselves have said 'no' to - like the Galaxy 1701-J or the original Star Trek series 1701 Constitution Class getting a Tier 5 version (which has been asked/begged for since the original STO closed beta in 2009) - the fact is, most max level players have happily spent money to get their 'Hero ship' at max level to use in endgame content/PVP. The issue is further compounded by 'Fleet Ships' which are not account wide and usually require as much Zen, and memebership in a Fleet that in itself required game resources and a lot of time (1 to 2 real time years) to get the Starbase itself to T5 to even be able to buy a Fleet ship.

So, with the announcement of Tier 6 ships; and the announcement that some, (not all, just some) existing T5/Fleet ships will be upgradable to get SOME (again, not all, just some) of the new abilities of these T6 ships upsets some players who did spent a lot of time (and real money) for the T5/Fleet ships they own.

I believe it was also said that the T6 ships would be new Cryptic designs, and remaining canon ships that hadn't been ion the game yet; so their is a distinct possibility that if you want to fly the new 'top tier' ship, and have ALL T6 functionality - not only do you have to spend probably as much as you did for your current T5 ship in Zen, it WON'T be your favorite 'Hero ship' either.

Personally, I see the way this was announced as another Cryptic marketing team failure in that:

- Cryptic marketing KNEW they were going to make this announcement at the STLV 2014 Convention.

- The Devs said, 'Blogs on all this are coming'; BUT, given at this point (two or so months prior to the Expansion's release in October), they have to know how the T5/T6 upgrade system will work, and what ships can be upgraded, etc. do they release at least Dev Blog to explain to the players a few hours AFTER the announcement is made? No.

They are supposed to be professionals in MMO development and have over a decade (including 'City of Heroes'); yet somehow they fail to see how such an announcement could upset players who've spent a lot of real cash; or that being 'coy' about how the system will work for a number of days with just a 'don't worry' ISN'T enough to quell the legitimate concerns players have about all this?

Again, another MAJOR marketing department fail by a company that doesn't seem to learn from past mistakes of this kind; even after 10 years of making and expanding on their own MMOs.

snoggymack22

jtmarsh wrote: »

That being said this new Delta move is the best thing Cryptic has done in years!! New content, new ships, new lvl increase.

They've already stated at the Q&A that the new content is not all coming out with the expansion. They assure us there will be enough REPEATABLE content to tide us over until they can get around to putting in the new content.

You know what that is right?

A new battlezone.

Not really much in the way of new stories.

You did skip over the other stuff they mentioned. Like Specializatons are coming. And likely to replace the skill tree. So I'm just guessing but it looks like the skill tree ends at 50. And their specializations idea becomes the progression model going forward.

So new ships. New repetable content. New money sinks. New grind.

I guess if you enjoy that, then yay get excited.

It's thin and gets boring fast.

strorus

jtmarsh wrote: »

I'm 37 and when STO came out I was all but retired from computer games. Was left playing 80's and 90's style games on my iphones and kids DS. After all I played Elite Force 2 PVP to death!! In fact that was my last PC game!

Then came STO!! A Trek MMO?? First I knew what a MMO was but I never played one. You want to know how lame I was?? 1 month after it came out I jumped on to the forums and saw one of you all talking about end game. I was like wha!?!? I just started playing and the game is ending?? I thought these games lasted a long time! Then someone online after laughing and then laughing then most of zone laughing explained to me what it meant. I still don't know why it would be called end game and not continuing game but.. oh well:)

So I learned about MMO as I went. I love this game and its still the only one I play. My son is now playing it. I have had my issues. I don't like DEV saying this will be done and then it does not. Bad way to run a business. Also was real mad with F2P, vet rewards ending and the simple fact of throwing payers and lifers under the bus. So much so I let my sub run out just over 1100 days and went free to play. So Cryptic has had its problems.

That being said this new Delta move is the best thing Cryptic has done in years!! New content, new ships, new lvl increase. But But I have spent money on stuff??? So what so did I! Galaxy X and Oddy 3 pack. But ill dock them in a minute for the new stuff. Just like I docked my T1-T4 ships. Its called game progression. Its a reward crackheads!! But my fleet stuff I paid money to get!! Well that was your choice. I paid not a dime on fleet stuff. I mined!! If you choose to take a shortcut and spend money on keys and fleet stuff that was your choice.

A game is meant to go forward. Not stay back because you spent cash on your favorite ship. Cryptic is being nice. I would not of gave you any chance to upgrade you lockbox ships or fleet ships. They should be treated just like T1 ships. Gone for better ships that you earn.

Guess i'm to old to understand the hate.

Oh! One more thing! What you call grind I call a fun game. You call stf's a grind?? I call HGE and the rest "like my call out name" FUN!

Totally Agree with you fella...

I have spent £, well it's a lot or money on this game, but am I bothered about my current ship becoming obsolete, heck no when sweet T6 Ships are coming...

Yes T5 won't have the abilities the T6 will have but as I understand it you will be able somehow to upgrade the Hull and Shield HP to be comparable.

I cannot wait!

jtmarsh

OK OK Is the Unicorn real and how much zen does the Unicorn TRIBBLE?? Do we have a cool down? A daily Unicorn TRIBBLE? Do we get bonus Unicorn farts some weekends.

jtmarsh

sopwithsnipe wrote: »

I got the pre-order thru gamestop. So yeah mine was $50 bucks.

OH! You mean the preorder. I bought the interior pack a few years back in the store. It also came with the ship.

grayfoxjames

I'd have to disagree about docking my Odyssey. For me it has the best Boff layout for my playing style and the nicest Bridge that I like to visit often. It's also one of the nicest designs and of course the flagship of my fleet and the Federation.

I'd be more than willing to shell out real money to buy a T6 Odyssey style ship with similar or better Boff layout and bridge.

Sorry I'm an Odyssey can all the way, it's just the perfect ship for me. Hopefully the flagship of the Federation will get an upgrade, in either case that Bridge needs to go to some T6 ship it is such a great bridge.

shpoks

For me personally it's more about the way upgrading the current T5 lineup will work. I understand game progression. I understand raising the level for everything. I have no issues with it, although many people will say that it's not fine since in STO the top-notch ships cost real money regardless how you obtained them. And they're right to a degree, it's not the equivalent of gear getting obsolete, because you played the game to obtain it - not right out paid for it like we do with ships here. Anyway, I'm personally not bothered with it.

What I'm most concerned about is the statement that T5 ships will be upgradeable and taken care of, but at the same time making a claim that the original T6 ships will have a "special" something that would entice us to buy them. Now if that "special" thing comes in the form of:

- DSD gimmick - now I have Sci.Comm, now I have Tac.Comm
- Universal Commander Boff
- Universal console slot
- Unique and special console or set
- Unique fused weapon ala Tempest;

...or similar stuff, I couldn't care less. However, if that "special" thing comes in the form of, let's say:

- A Boff slot for the new Boff career only present on 'original' T6 ships
- Extra Boff abilities
- Extra console slots
- Inherent advantage in the hull/shield department

...or similar - that's where I'll have issues.

The reason being simple - I want to use for ex. the ship in my sig. I don't mind having to pay sth. to upgarde it. I wouldn't overally mind paying almost the full price of a T6 ship in order to put the T5 ship I love in the same weight category with the new T6 vessels. I'm just fan of the iconic designs and I happen to think that most of the Starfleet lineup designed by Cryptic sucks, with a few exceptions. And I reckon there are many STO players that feel this way.

How many people have a Defiant because they loved DS9?
How many people have a Galaxy because they grew up with TNG?
How many people command an Intrepid because they liked Voyager?
How many KDF players use a B'rel because of Chang?
How many KDF players use a Vorcha or a K'tinga because of their iconic heritage and appeal?
How many Romulan fans have a D'Deridex and a Mogai in their hangar, for the same reasons?

My point is - they better allow us to bring up our T5 ships in the same weight category with the new T6 ships without obvious advantages, regardless of the price for the upgarde. I don't care if my Galaxy will be the suckiest of the T6 ships because of Boff and console layouts as long as it has the same amount of resources at her disposal as any other T6 ship.

That's about the only possible issue I could have, with the info we have availible for now. The ships in STO are our secondary, if not primary avatars. They mean much more than gear or a mount. I think it's natural that many of us don't want to mothball our endgame ship, especially if we're comparing iconic designs with new Cryptic ones.