WORLD FIRST: 2-Man No Win Scenario (NWS)

porchsong

Kirks_Protege and the DPS Channels proudly presents a world's first: The game's only hard PvE mission No Win Scenario (NWS) has been completed by only two players. It took a hard week of grinding to accomplish this feat and come up with proper strategy.

Video Link: http://www.twitch.tv/ryansto/c/4742250

Youtube Link: http://youtu.be/eydFU1aMyWU

PvE: No Win Scenario

Race: Gorn

Channel: Kirks_Protege

Fleet: -Disorderly Conduct-

Pilots:

RyanSTO IRL@ezri_carter

Porch Song@porchsong

Ships: Fleet Patrol Escort Refits -- Identical builds. Ryan has slightly different phasers.

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=2mannwsboat_2843

**************************************************************
7/30/2014

It has been repeated by another group--GRATZ John and Serenity!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGvC-2F9qhA

Race: KDF

Channel: Kirks_Protege

Fleet: Blue Monkeys

Team: Tennyson, John@corcalc

Boats: Fleet Patrol Escorts Refits


**************************************************************

Now can we finally agree that we need some harder End Game content?

Next post will be dedicated to all the people who helped us by tirelessly warping (so we could start the game). . . . Cheers!!!! We could not have accomplished this without you and your patience. We can get most of your names off the many, many attempts we videoed, but send me an ingame email so we can give you credit.

Porch Song

porchsong

reserved for warpers props. . . .

xparr15

Congrats!

Go for a 1-man next.

captainoblivous

When the vid comes up, then I'll believe it :P

worffan101

Holy mother of Cthulhu...

Impressive. I will want to see the video, but HOLY COW that's impressive.

ashkrik23

While this does take a lot of skill, power creep still gives a hand in how easy NWS has gotten, regardless of team numbers. If Cryptic thinks that power creep isn't part of the reason for this, they are crazy.

johngazman

porchsong wrote: »

Now can we finally agree that we need some harder End Game content?

No? We don't need harder endgame content, we just need more endgame content. The real problem isn't that it's easy - it's only easy because there's nothing else to focus your effort on.

Plus y'know - power creep.

ashkrik23

johngazman wrote: »

No? We don't need harder endgame content, we just need more endgame content. The real problem isn't that it's easy - it's only easy because there's nothing else to focus your effort on.

Plus y'know - power creep.

POwer creep and the stuff has been nerfed so much. We need new end-game content along with harder levels, period.

azurianstar

ashkrik23 wrote: »

POwer creep and the stuff has been nerfed so much. We need new end-game content along with harder levels, period.

We know what that will amounts too, Enemies hitting harder and more HP, not smarter enemies. :P


Anyhow - Power Creep! ~

ashkrik23

azurianstar wrote: »

We know what that will amounts too, Enemies hitting harder and more HP, not smarter enemies. :P


Anyhow - Power Creep! ~

Of course...unfortunately.

mimey2

I can't wait for the video.

Now all you need to do Porch is do it with a single player.

spacebaronline

Coming soon!! All end game content is put on a timer - it's too easy to actually do - so you just click a mission and do nothing while you wait for it to auto-complete. Of course you will have the option to complete the content faster for a large dilithium payment!!:eek:;):P:rolleyes:

p.s. - What are Gorn doing in Fleet Patrol Escort Refits?

tucana66

porchsong wrote: »

Kirks_Protege and the DPS Channels proudly presents a world's first: The game's only hard PvE mission No Win Scenario (NWS) has been completed by only two players. It took a hard week of grinding to accomplish this feat and come up with proper strategy. (...)

Congratulations! That's quite an accomplishment. Like others, it will be interesting to see the actual video footage.

May I suggest an additional action:
Post your ship builds to STO Academy's Skill Planner tool.

While the video will display the BOff powers and ship loadouts, it would be interesting to have both of your ship builds there. No one can duplicate your mad skillz, though.

EDIT: Thank you! re: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=2mannwsboat_2843

generalmoco

If you add more End game content, Power Creep will STILL exist from a Freshly Level 50 Player and a 4 year level 50 Veteran...

If you add end game content which is harder, then all you are doing is Adding more ways for lvl 50 veterans to increase their already insane power....

john98837

Power creep is not the problem, the problem is cryptic's refusal to design difficult content. No win is relatively easy now with some skill, but it was the games only difficult pve queue. All these supposedly "elite" stfs are incredibly easy and always have been. Sure power creep has made them even easier, but you could easily walk through an ISE back in season 5 or 6, way before romulans and reps. The devs need to actually spend some time designing difficult content with intelligent enemies that actually use abilities to fight you.

A fresh level 50 should not be able to successfully run all end game content. The current Elite queues should be renamed to Normal or Hard and new Elite queues added that actually fit the name Elite. A fresh level 50 should get massacred in one of these new elite queues as they are not for them. Fresh level 50s should have to play the easier difficulties and work there way up to elite. As it is now a fresh level 50 can go into any elite queue and have no problem, assuming they have some level of skill and intelligence.

dichtbringer

For anyone saying rommies are op, see my signature for S7 runs

uraziel0815

Congrats to both of you.

Honor and Glory to Kirks_Protege !

woodwhity

Congratz.


Now, for all those crying powercreep: Make a new char, give it nothing from other chars, and see how you can burst through the "Elite" content before powercreep even manifests on the char. You might cry how easy you can tank and dps in STFs with a fresh lv50 char without any gear better then mk xi blue. Especially nws is highly tactic-oriented, and gear plays only a minor role (granted, the ship should be able to do, but there are more then enough easy to get ships out there, especially now with the mirror escort.).
Power creep as an explanation for fast runs of any kind are a bad players signature.

thoth36

CONGRATULATIONS!

I bet a lot of work went into perfecting the strategy awesome job guys.

tucana66

john98837 wrote: »

Power creep is not the problem, the problem is cryptic's refusal to design difficult content. No win is relatively easy now with some skill, but it was the games only difficult pve queue. All these supposedly "elite" stfs are incredibly easy and always have been. Sure power creep has made them even easier, but you could easily walk through an ISE back in season 5 or 6, way before romulans and reps. The devs need to actually spend some time designing difficult content with intelligent enemies that actually use abilities to fight you. (...)

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=921371

There was a discussion in November 2013 of a "Nightmare" (Ultra Elite) level for STFs, courtesy of STOked and CaptainGeko (Al Rivera). I haven't seen any followups since.

Personally, I'm not a proponent of modifying current Elite STFs. I think they're fairly well balanced; players incur damage and their associated repair costs; good rewards are issued for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place.

If Cryptic decided to mess with the Elite STF settings again (making them harder), I imagine the outcry from the average player would be deafening. Right now, imho, Elites are one of the ways to have a challenging match while getting marks/rewards which are dearly needed for Reputation grinds.

Again, that's imho. The rest of you may feel differently.

I'd like to see STOked, Priority One, etc. consider resurfacing this topic. Maybe it's intended for Season 10 (and thusly cannot be disclosed yet). But it's worth talking about again.

azurianstar

john98837 wrote: »

Power creep is not the problem, the problem is cryptic's refusal to design difficult content. No win is relatively easy now with some skill, but it was the games only difficult pve queue. All these supposedly "elite" stfs are incredibly easy and always have been. Sure power creep has made them even easier, but you could easily walk through an ISE back in season 5 or 6, way before romulans and reps. The devs need to actually spend some time designing difficult content with intelligent enemies that actually use abilities to fight you.

A fresh level 50 should not be able to successfully run all end game content. The current Elite queues should be renamed to Normal or Hard and new Elite queues added that actually fit the name Elite. A fresh level 50 should get massacred in one of these new elite queues as they are not for them. Fresh level 50s should have to play the easier difficulties and work there way up to elite. As it is now a fresh level 50 can go into any elite queue and have no problem, assuming they have some level of skill and intelligence.

Yes, Power Creep IS the problem! :P

It took 6 months before the first group to win NWS after it went live with Season 6 (and that was with tactics, not pure power), I mean it literally was the toughest thing in STO. And that was the case for pretty all the way til Season 8. Now (looks at the OP), yeah, not power creep indeed. :rolleyes:


And I don't think you can raise the bar anymore in STO, because it's going to seriously trivialize the majority of the content.

john98837

azurianstar wrote: »

Yes, Power Creep IS the problem! :P

It took 6 months before the first group to win NWS after it went live with Season 6 (and that was with tactics, not pure power), I mean it literally was the toughest thing in STO. And that was the case for pretty all the way til Season 8. Now (looks at the OP), yeah, not power creep indeed. :rolleyes:


And I don't think you can raise the bar anymore in STO, because it's going to seriously trivialize the majority of the content.

You miss the fact that the only thing that was difficult in the game prior to power creep was NWS. Nothing else was a challenge for those that are actually good at the game. Yes power creep is the reason that NWS can be done so easy, and can even be done with 2, but it is not the reason that the game is so lacking in challenges. If in S5 we can go through all these "Elite" stfs in 3 or 4 minutes with no deaths and no real difficulty and now we can do it in 60 second with no real difficulty or deaths whats the big difference. Its still easy, only thing that power creep has really done is make it quicker.

azurianstar

john98837 wrote: »

You miss the fact that the only thing that was difficult in the game prior to power creep was NWS. Nothing else was a challenge for those that are actually good at the game. Yes power creep is the reason that NWS can be done so easy, and can even be done with 2, but it is not the reason that the game is so lacking in challenges. If in S5 we can go through all these "Elite" stfs in 3 or 4 minutes with no deaths and no real difficulty and now we can do it in 60 second with no real difficulty or deaths whats the big difference. Its still easy, only thing that power creep has really done is make it quicker.

Elite STFs were anything but easy for months, until people found patterns that made it easy. Then after that, it was cake. But it was Reputation that started the power creep and made it even easier. And then factor in the new 5 Forward Weapon warships, didn't help matters either.

reginamala78

Well when one has beaten a game that thoroughly, probably time to find another game.

tonyalmeida2

obviously they altered their game files to make it easier. cause beating it even with 5 people is just not possible.

generalmoco

Where is the link to the video...... the urge to see this is burning me inside....

elvnswords

As a veteran of a recently passed and much beloved MMO, I can tell you it had it's share of power creep. The Incarnate System was rife with making the Heroes more and more powerful with no counter cost, just time invested in each Hero's Path.

The same could be said of STO


HOWEVER

I can tell you that each and everytime that new content would launch, as it regularly did in this other game, the new Trial would test our mettle each time. There would be new methodolgy to learn new ways we had to do things, or new paths we had to take. It was about the power creep but it wasn't about the push for sheer DPS and dmg resists... You had to take certain things in certain orders or they would buff to an unbeatable level, or you needed the debuff for certain enemies of you simply couldn't lock them down long enough to deal enough DPS to destroy them. Imagine a Dontaru who truely cloaked each time she started taking significant damage and heal a big each cloak...

it would be frustrating if you didn't tractor her and prevent that cloaking with the hinted at weakness.

No we don't need to address power creep the way you have been outlining, by nerfing, but rather we need to have a dev team who can step back, take a deep breath and dive back in with a new creative twist to the content they make. Stop making it the formulaic Small Medium Big Biggest ship combo, and start making it about Story, and make the Story part of the combat!

The closest thing we have to that now is the Borg Queen fights in the Hive, where you have to get under the guns. and while that can be frustrating with a PUG, it can be the most fun with a group who knows what to do, and listens to instructions.

chiyoumiku

This is, sadly, one of those moments where a video is required for proof.

xxxhellspawnyxxx

Great job, guys!

And a well deserved victory over the RNG as well.

therealfluffy

I'll add my congratulations too with a quote from the Season 6 release notes.

• No Win Scenario
  • This is designed to be a true No Win Scenario.
    • Players are not expected to get much further than wave 6 or 7.

mirrorchaos

porchsong wrote: »

Now can we finally agree that we need some harder End Game content?

what so two people using nothing but teamwork and tweaking a 100k dps build to perfection to that specific situation means that everyone else is 100k boats and nothing is worth the challenge, and your saying that for everyone? im not going to be a party to your opinion and its not shared. elitists, pah.