I take this as more shut up about it, we don't care and if a thread full of DOOM is allowed, well what is the point of this?
I'd gladly throw the Doom thread under the bus any day of the week if it meant a return to productive discussion revolving around issues that can actually be fixed rather than lamenting what could have been.
question.... when is feds getting free battle cloaks going on the dead horse list... and why wasn't it on the list from the start?
and what about revamps for ships that don't need it if you play it like your supposed to and not a escort? how long telll that makes the list?
You can submit any and all candidate topics to Askray via PM and he will bring it to the powers that be, they'll have a discussion over whether or not the topic has run its course, and either approve or disapprove.
You can submit any and all candidate topics to Askray via PM and he will bring it to the powers that be, they'll have a discussion over whether or not the topic has run its course, and either approve or disapprove.
good to know, I'll get around to it at some point.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Hate to be the one to break the news to ya, but censorship has always gone on here. This is a privately owned forum and Cryptic has always enforced their rules as they saw fit. And this is no different from any other privately owned forum.
This point gets made a lot in discussions on this type of topic.
And yeah, what you're saying is true.
But I think what gets lost in this is the basic premise of what the poster is talking about in the context of the forums and what not.
See, it's frustrating for some to feel that their feedback is being censored. You're right this is a private company and their website.
But it feels really bad if you're a consumer of their product and you are here to let them know what you think of their product and instead they're just going to cut you off and quash whatever feedback you have.
That's why people get rankled and use the word censorship.
It's not quite censorship. But it is pretty bad customer service.
So I don't know.
And then when folks try to defend the bad customer service with the idea that the producers of this product don't want to be told bad things about it because it makes them sad ...
It just sets up this whole affront to the basic business practices going on.
The person complaining bought the product. They're frustrated. And so maybe the company should do what other companies do ... overlook the frustration and insults and just focus on the problem the customer has.
You see, I understand what the intention is here. I get that flaming and what not can create a lot of noise that gets in the way of the feedback process. But I also see the potential danger here of taking a lot of quality feedback (though still negative) out of the picture and giving a skewed and false representation of the product.
Essentially it feels like the goal here, even as noble as it is, will still have the negative side effect of quashing a lot of valuable criticism.
A good point made above was that these threads, while rife with the circular discussion of well trod discussions, still sometimes spark new and creative solutions. So like the Tovan threads (sorry to keep harping on them but it's one I don't have any interest in so can separate my emotions from) ... the Tovan threads, yeah, the general idea is the same time and time again. But apparently some of the posts in there offer creative ways to compromise or to meet dev standards as well as give players a way to not have Tovan.
Losing that is a bad thing to me. And does feel like censorship of something valuable to the company.
And what's being gained is to me not that valuable. It's supposed to curb trolling and flaming?
Nah. The internet is the internet.
It's spitting into the wind if that's the goal.
Anyways, I'm rambling.
TLDR: You're right it's not censorship. But please try to see the person's point of view. It's a move that takes the voice of a customer away and does do harm to the general idea of providing feedback and criticism. So it's frustrating enough to make people call it censorship. I see what they mean. Even though you're right, it's not.
The FCT thread doesn't really seem to be censorship to me.
Censorship usually tries to avoid the topic entirely. But the FCT thread describes the topic and the relevant responses to it ,so it's not exactly hidden. And it's not like a new poster coming around and asking for a Tier 5 Connie can add something new to the discussion - everyone already knows that the Tier 5 Connie is sought after by many players - the only think the new poster needs to know is that (and, were possible, why) it doesn't happen.
A topic in the FCT is by definition well-known to Cryptic. You could just as well start threads about "I like to breath air"... Except those will likely not turn into flame fests...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
A topic in the FCT is by definition well-known to Cryptic. You could just as well start threads about "I like to breath air"... Except those will likely not turn into flame fests...
You air breathers just love to shove your entitlement complex when it comes to 'oxygen' anywhere you possibly can, don't you?
How about you stop your crying and start inhaling some noble gases like the rest of us who are actually willing to work towards sustainable life.
A little bit of argon and radon isn't going to hurt you.
the people who run this place are far more open then most you run across, even the public ones. this place has its own values, customs and traditions that are followed religiously (pun intended or not? :P), this place is its own culture.
sometimes there has to be censorship for a reason and all the time it does come up is because rules need to be enforced and property belonging to the company isnt devalued in the attempt, ie. datamining for secrets on what is next. thats fine, one has to defend themselves when it comes right down to it, but pwe isnt too hard on itself in its defense, it does enough to warn people off, most of us here realize because we been around long enough to respect it, some may not however, in those cases its a 1 by 1 basis. but frankly they should of known better for those who dont want to read up and understand.
the people running this forum have never had much need to censor and flout the forums over the general community, i havent seen a case like it before out in this direction in the 3 years i been here. however moderation is required to keep the forums civil which sometimes gets confused with censorship, sometimes the mods have needed to the the censorship blanket on a subject because they have no choice themselves, but most of the rest is to tell those who step over that mark that was laid down from the start not to cross it again, but the offender is still allowed to have their opinion as long as it doesnt happen again, much the same way the police are and this is pwe's island the rest of us are on.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You couldn't even say the word "no" without getting into trouble. It led to this response to the heavy handed moderation.
Ahhh, the memories. Thanks for bringing that back.
Yeah, I will say this, I've encountered quite a few instances on various forums where people freely toss the word troll at someone just because they disagreed.
It's really frustrating too, because disagreement is not flaming or trolling. And yeah, your example is a classic.
I felt I really needed to make that one post earlier because I like Iconians. I hope Iconians at least doesn't dislike me. We definitely disagree on some salient points here. But it's just disagreement in a discussion. However the massive back and forth may have given the illusion of flaming. And as you point out, that can get misunderstood far too easily these days.
I miss the old days of FOH forums and the Rickshaw. Things were filled with a lot of flames. But it wasn't so uptight.
Maybe that's all it really is to me. It's too uptight and rigid and for me that gets in the way of spirited debate.
The FCT thread doesn't really seem to be censorship to me.
All I was really saying was I understand WHY people call it that and get upset about the actions taken. I get it. I get what they're saying. And I have some empathy for them.
All I was really saying was I understand WHY people call it that and get upset about the actions taken. I get it. I get what they're saying. And I have some empathy for them.
I am not sure if empathy is the right work. I understand that people are concerned that they will be ignored - but I understand that this is decidely not ignoring them, or sweeping things under the rug. A stickied thread is not generally a measure of sweeping things under a rug.
It seems a reasonable moderation issue. It's similar to when the servers are down unexpectedly - or there is a serious bug affecting many players - new threads on that topic are eventually removed or merged into a big "Server Down" thread or "Official All Characters Inventory Empty Feedback and Information Thread" or whatever. These threads don't mean the issue is ignored - it means it is well known.
The only difference is the type of resolution we can expect - in these cases, it's a "No, we won't do anything about it, even though we know it is important to many people. The reason is [...]"
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
question.... when is feds getting free battle cloaks going on the dead horse list... and why wasn't it on the list from the start?
and what about revamps for ships that don't need it if you play it like your supposed to and not a escort? how long telll that makes the list?
The question of Fed cloaks is kind of valid, the Treaty of Algeron is pretty much dead now that the Romulan Empire is all but destroyed and the new Romulan republic is allied with the Federation.
My thread was not about dismissing Khev, I think it's bad to completely ban any discussion related to Khev and unrelated to what the devs actually rejected.
Well, if you are never going used to Tovan, then its your problem. Because he will never go away. I cant believe people still worrying about this by now.. :P
Of course if anyone's not used to something, it's their problem. That doesn't mean we can't influence change. And no matter how strongly Cryptic's current management says an optional Tovan will never happen, it still might. The future isn't determined yet, and it's dishonest of you to claim that it is.
Also, why is it so hard to believe? People are passionate about things that you might not care for or understand. That's how subjectivity works.
The Devs don't care. They are not going to change it even if you give them a simple, cheap and moneymaking suggestion. These few items on the F.C.T. are just the beginning.
The Devs need to learn to listen to feedback and to find solutions especially when different ideas are presented to them. Removing Khev from the bridge is a brilliant solution, and it removes any necessity to actually dismiss him.
He'll still be in your list, He'll still come for the Romulan mission, but when you go on your ship, he won't be there unless he's in your space/away team. That's how it should be.
Silencing me for coming with a good and effective alternative that does not involve dismissing him is idiotic.
This coming from a Lifetime subscriber.
Some people can. Others cannot. Your subjective claims have no bearing on the experiences of other people.
I'm sorry I did not mean to be mean. We're on the same side after all. I want to dismiss him too, but it's just not gonna happen. And the next-best thing is to at least make him as invisible and non-existant as possible...Which means getting him the hell off my bridge!
I'm sorry I did not mean to be mean. We're on the same side after all. I want to dismiss him too, but it's just not gonna happen. And the next-best thing is to at least make him as invisible and non-existant as possible...Which means getting him the hell off my bridge!
My post has nothing to do with wanting to dismiss Tovan. I'm just pointing out that just because people have other viewpoints doesn't mean theirs isn't as 'reasonable' as yours.
See there is censorship going on, Cryptic was dumb enough to release elements of new unrevealed content in their latest patches. Players are smart enough to find it.
When players come to talk about it on the forums, "ermergerd how u know u cant talk about that ok ok banned cuz u obviously haxx0rzing the game :mad::mad::mad:"
And then there's the State of Cryptic. This week it is you may no longer talk about xyz, next week it will be abc. Soon it will be you may only post if it is praising the Glory of the Cryptic, or its fearless personnel. Then we will all be asked to join in a parade in Cryptic's honor, etc etc etc.
I would like to make the point that this thread is not for arguing with other forum users.
The FCT thread is a reality. It is intended to help resolve some ongoing issues on the forums. The only debate is over what might get added to it, and the final decision belongs to PWE and Cryptic.
We're not going to debate about what should be taken off the list. As always, the moderators will use their own judgement about when the FCT applies and when it doesn't.
Please don't mistake Askray's call for suggestions as opening the door to a popular vote on what goes in the FCT. We're not voting on it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I would like to make the point that this thread is not for arguing with other forum users.
The FCT thread is a reality. It is intended to help resolve some ongoing issues on the forums. The only debate is over what might get added to it, and the final decision belongs to PWE and Cryptic.
We're not going to debate about what should be taken off the list. As always, the moderators will use their own judgement about when the FCT applies and when it doesn't.
Please don't mistake Askray's call for suggestions as opening the door to a popular vote on what goes in the FCT. We're not voting on it.
My problem is not what is on the FCT, it's how what is on it is managed.
Will threads get locked now for mentioning a connie even if it has nothing to do with a T5 connie?
Will threads get locked now for even mentioning the disco ball even if it has nothing to do with it?
My thread got locked for mentioning Tovan even it has nothing to do about dismissing him, as I accept that isn't going to happen.
See there is censorship going on, Cryptic was dumb enough to release elements of new unrevealed content in their latest patches. Players are smart enough to find it.
When players come to talk about it on the forums, "ermergerd how u know u cant talk about that ok ok banned cuz u obviously haxx0rzing the game :mad::mad::mad:"
And then there's the State of Cryptic. This week it is you may no longer talk about xyz, next week it will be abc. Soon it will be you may only post if it is praising the Glory of the Cryptic, or its fearless personnel. Then we will all be asked to join in a parade in Cryptic's honor, etc etc etc.
Datamining (ie hacking the client to find out what's upcoming) has never been allowed on the forums. Not to mention it's against the TOS and EULA. This goes back to beta. This isn't new, and it will never be allowed.
Guys drop the Tovan issue. It's done, over and nothing is going to be done with it. Gurluas your ideas weren't new, they have been discussed before and it's not going to happen so yes, your thread is closed because once again it's an issue that's been beaten into particles. Also, using this thread to continue the discussion as someone so nicely put is not going to happen either. This thread has zip to do with Tovan and if people start using threads to get Tovan issues out there they will be issued warnings for violating forum policy (which is basically ignoring a moderator and doing what they said not to do anyways). And no, that's not up for discussion.
Let us move on now kthx.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Comments
I'd gladly throw the Doom thread under the bus any day of the week if it meant a return to productive discussion revolving around issues that can actually be fixed rather than lamenting what could have been.
and what about revamps for ships that don't need it if you play it like your supposed to and not a escort? how long telll that makes the list?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
You can submit any and all candidate topics to Askray via PM and he will bring it to the powers that be, they'll have a discussion over whether or not the topic has run its course, and either approve or disapprove.
good to know, I'll get around to it at some point.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
This point gets made a lot in discussions on this type of topic.
And yeah, what you're saying is true.
But I think what gets lost in this is the basic premise of what the poster is talking about in the context of the forums and what not.
See, it's frustrating for some to feel that their feedback is being censored. You're right this is a private company and their website.
But it feels really bad if you're a consumer of their product and you are here to let them know what you think of their product and instead they're just going to cut you off and quash whatever feedback you have.
That's why people get rankled and use the word censorship.
It's not quite censorship. But it is pretty bad customer service.
So I don't know.
And then when folks try to defend the bad customer service with the idea that the producers of this product don't want to be told bad things about it because it makes them sad ...
It just sets up this whole affront to the basic business practices going on.
The person complaining bought the product. They're frustrated. And so maybe the company should do what other companies do ... overlook the frustration and insults and just focus on the problem the customer has.
You see, I understand what the intention is here. I get that flaming and what not can create a lot of noise that gets in the way of the feedback process. But I also see the potential danger here of taking a lot of quality feedback (though still negative) out of the picture and giving a skewed and false representation of the product.
Essentially it feels like the goal here, even as noble as it is, will still have the negative side effect of quashing a lot of valuable criticism.
A good point made above was that these threads, while rife with the circular discussion of well trod discussions, still sometimes spark new and creative solutions. So like the Tovan threads (sorry to keep harping on them but it's one I don't have any interest in so can separate my emotions from) ... the Tovan threads, yeah, the general idea is the same time and time again. But apparently some of the posts in there offer creative ways to compromise or to meet dev standards as well as give players a way to not have Tovan.
Losing that is a bad thing to me. And does feel like censorship of something valuable to the company.
And what's being gained is to me not that valuable. It's supposed to curb trolling and flaming?
Nah. The internet is the internet.
It's spitting into the wind if that's the goal.
Anyways, I'm rambling.
TLDR: You're right it's not censorship. But please try to see the person's point of view. It's a move that takes the voice of a customer away and does do harm to the general idea of providing feedback and criticism. So it's frustrating enough to make people call it censorship. I see what they mean. Even though you're right, it's not.
Censorship usually tries to avoid the topic entirely. But the FCT thread describes the topic and the relevant responses to it ,so it's not exactly hidden. And it's not like a new poster coming around and asking for a Tier 5 Connie can add something new to the discussion - everyone already knows that the Tier 5 Connie is sought after by many players - the only think the new poster needs to know is that (and, were possible, why) it doesn't happen.
A topic in the FCT is by definition well-known to Cryptic. You could just as well start threads about "I like to breath air"... Except those will likely not turn into flame fests...
You air breathers just love to shove your entitlement complex when it comes to 'oxygen' anywhere you possibly can, don't you?
How about you stop your crying and start inhaling some noble gases like the rest of us who are actually willing to work towards sustainable life.
A little bit of argon and radon isn't going to hurt you.
sometimes there has to be censorship for a reason and all the time it does come up is because rules need to be enforced and property belonging to the company isnt devalued in the attempt, ie. datamining for secrets on what is next. thats fine, one has to defend themselves when it comes right down to it, but pwe isnt too hard on itself in its defense, it does enough to warn people off, most of us here realize because we been around long enough to respect it, some may not however, in those cases its a 1 by 1 basis. but frankly they should of known better for those who dont want to read up and understand.
the people running this forum have never had much need to censor and flout the forums over the general community, i havent seen a case like it before out in this direction in the 3 years i been here. however moderation is required to keep the forums civil which sometimes gets confused with censorship, sometimes the mods have needed to the the censorship blanket on a subject because they have no choice themselves, but most of the rest is to tell those who step over that mark that was laid down from the start not to cross it again, but the offender is still allowed to have their opinion as long as it doesnt happen again, much the same way the police are and this is pwe's island the rest of us are on.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Ahhh, the memories. Thanks for bringing that back.
Yeah, I will say this, I've encountered quite a few instances on various forums where people freely toss the word troll at someone just because they disagreed.
It's really frustrating too, because disagreement is not flaming or trolling. And yeah, your example is a classic.
I felt I really needed to make that one post earlier because I like Iconians. I hope Iconians at least doesn't dislike me. We definitely disagree on some salient points here. But it's just disagreement in a discussion. However the massive back and forth may have given the illusion of flaming. And as you point out, that can get misunderstood far too easily these days.
I miss the old days of FOH forums and the Rickshaw. Things were filled with a lot of flames. But it wasn't so uptight.
Maybe that's all it really is to me. It's too uptight and rigid and for me that gets in the way of spirited debate.
Ah, I don't know. I'm an old crank anyways.
All I was really saying was I understand WHY people call it that and get upset about the actions taken. I get it. I get what they're saying. And I have some empathy for them.
It seems a reasonable moderation issue. It's similar to when the servers are down unexpectedly - or there is a serious bug affecting many players - new threads on that topic are eventually removed or merged into a big "Server Down" thread or "Official All Characters Inventory Empty Feedback and Information Thread" or whatever. These threads don't mean the issue is ignored - it means it is well known.
The only difference is the type of resolution we can expect - in these cases, it's a "No, we won't do anything about it, even though we know it is important to many people. The reason is [...]"
The question of Fed cloaks is kind of valid, the Treaty of Algeron is pretty much dead now that the Romulan Empire is all but destroyed and the new Romulan republic is allied with the Federation.
So from my POV it seems like censorship.
Also, why is it so hard to believe? People are passionate about things that you might not care for or understand. That's how subjectivity works.
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The Devs need to learn to listen to feedback and to find solutions especially when different ideas are presented to them. Removing Khev from the bridge is a brilliant solution, and it removes any necessity to actually dismiss him.
He'll still be in your list, He'll still come for the Romulan mission, but when you go on your ship, he won't be there unless he's in your space/away team. That's how it should be.
Silencing me for coming with a good and effective alternative that does not involve dismissing him is idiotic.
This coming from a Lifetime subscriber.
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It does. You can completely ignore his existance if he wont show up on your bridge or be on any of your teams.
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I'm sorry I did not mean to be mean. We're on the same side after all. I want to dismiss him too, but it's just not gonna happen. And the next-best thing is to at least make him as invisible and non-existant as possible...Which means getting him the hell off my bridge!
No need to apologize.
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All I said was that it's the next-best thing to actually dismissing him.
And I am complaining about the censorship that got my thread locked, which is unrelated to dismissing Khev.
When players come to talk about it on the forums, "ermergerd how u know u cant talk about that ok ok banned cuz u obviously haxx0rzing the game :mad::mad::mad:"
And then there's the State of Cryptic. This week it is you may no longer talk about xyz, next week it will be abc. Soon it will be you may only post if it is praising the Glory of the Cryptic, or its fearless personnel. Then we will all be asked to join in a parade in Cryptic's honor, etc etc etc.
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My character Tsin'xing
I would like to make the point that this thread is not for arguing with other forum users.
The FCT thread is a reality. It is intended to help resolve some ongoing issues on the forums. The only debate is over what might get added to it, and the final decision belongs to PWE and Cryptic.
We're not going to debate about what should be taken off the list. As always, the moderators will use their own judgement about when the FCT applies and when it doesn't.
Please don't mistake Askray's call for suggestions as opening the door to a popular vote on what goes in the FCT. We're not voting on it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My problem is not what is on the FCT, it's how what is on it is managed.
Will threads get locked now for mentioning a connie even if it has nothing to do with a T5 connie?
Will threads get locked now for even mentioning the disco ball even if it has nothing to do with it?
My thread got locked for mentioning Tovan even it has nothing to do about dismissing him, as I accept that isn't going to happen.
but you can never take.... our BAAAACOOOOONN!!!!
Pretty sure you can mention T5 connies, as long as you're not trying to hijack a thread.
Guys drop the Tovan issue. It's done, over and nothing is going to be done with it. Gurluas your ideas weren't new, they have been discussed before and it's not going to happen so yes, your thread is closed because once again it's an issue that's been beaten into particles. Also, using this thread to continue the discussion as someone so nicely put is not going to happen either. This thread has zip to do with Tovan and if people start using threads to get Tovan issues out there they will be issued warnings for violating forum policy (which is basically ignoring a moderator and doing what they said not to do anyways). And no, that's not up for discussion.
Let us move on now kthx.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113