Just read the most recent crafting update and saw you can craft this rifle and all I can say is not cool cryptic/prefect world
This was a Target preorder item, that was nerfed and made useless after lvl 10 and now you make it craftable rather than fix it and available to all.....
This item should only be available to those who bought it as they paid money for it so please rather than add more content fix the old stuff first
I find it ironic that once people get what they want, they whinge about it.
i am not into crafting. For me it was more useful and logical that we could get better stuff at the fleet starbase and from reputation systems. And since we can get good AP Weapons from the starbase i would prefer that they change the Wepons you can buy at the Omega Reputation system to kinetic weapons since it is the most effective energy type against Borg: And the Nukara Rep should be changed from AP to tetryon (to match the space weapons) or Cold with sonic.
So everyone could get teir shield penetrating kinetic rifles from the Omega Rep and use them in other endgame content No need for the TR 116 A or B
While i can understand that this weapon seems like a overly glorified sniper rifle, it is also the anti-Borg weapon that we have been waiting for so long. I, for one, can't wait to yell, "ASSIMILATE THIS!" in the chat, blowing Borg to pieces. :cool:
We finally, to an extent, have the Omega Task Force's equivalent to the Romulan Plasma Flamethrower
As a TR116A owner, I must say that I am not as upset over this version of the rifle that others seem to be. I do wish the the A model was more effective at higher levels (if not necessarily at end game). That said, I understand why the A model has been regulated to beginning levels for PvP sake. After all, how would you feel if you getting shot from someone you can't see? Though, on the flip side, if everyone has the ability to get it, it is not exactly unbalanced is it?
As a TR116A owner, I must say that I am not as upset over this version of the rifle that others seem to be. I do wish the the A model was more effective at higher levels (if not necessarily at end game). That said, I understand why the A model has been regulated to beginning levels for PvP sake. After all, how would you feel if you getting shot from someone you can't see? Though, on the flip side, if everyone has the ability to get it, it is not exactly unbalanced is it?
It's still a balance issue, because everyone needs to get it, it means the other items are underpowered.
Balance is not just about the characters, but also about individual items. Some items aren't needed to be balanced (a Mark I item vs a Mark X item because there is an intended update progression, a console vs a shield array because consoles and shield array cost different slots.).
But different (equal level) personal weapons would need to be balanced against each other. If one clearly dominates, there is a problem.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
How about this, for those that do not have the pre-order items. A Special 1 week and 1 week only sale of all the old pre-order items and charge the original pre-order price for everything. Since you're basically paying for a game code that unlocks it.
Happy owner of a TR-116A. The B can't shoot through walls, and with the obnoxious crafting costs, I will pass, even though I never use my A at endgame.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
Just gimme any World War II era or later full automatic machine gun. Sure, you can make use tritanium bullets instead of the "old" lead bullets like the TR-116A.
I am pretty sure .45 caliber ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) ammo still has good stopping power in the 25th century as it does now. However, using something that hard (24.1 times harder than diamond and is what ship bulkheads are made of) can actually lower the amount of damage done.
The reason why ballistic weapons can do decent amount of damage and have sufficient stopping power is due to the deformation of the slug which is usually made of "soft" material like lead. When a bullet enters a body the sudden impact deforms the bullet. Additionally, the change in velocity causes the bullet to tumbling inside a body which also causes it to fracture into many pieces. It is this fracturing that actually causes the most damage because there are now several pieces travelling through the body. Each fragment can cause damage to separate organs as well as several sources of internal bleeding and it is this effect that determines the stopping power of a bullet.
With something as hard as Tritanium that basically means the bullet is more for armor piercing damage than trauma damage. A tritanium bullet could easily penetrate a body, remain whole (because it is 24.1x harder than diamond) and exit out of the body. Yes, the person that gets hit by a tritanium bullet will be wounded, but the wound would generally be less severe than a bullet made of lead and can deform inside a body.
Of course, it also depends on the entry point as well. Shooting someone in the head with a .45 caliber ACP round made of lead or tritanium will have the same end result.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,601Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Ironically... with the advances made in defending against energy weapons... projectile might actually be more effective... if less efficient. A phaser may be able to fire almost non stop, while a slugthrower would have to reload after a while... but again... who'd expect say... a M-16 when you're used to dealing with Plasma or Antiproton Rifles?
Ironically... with the advances made in defending against energy weapons... projectile might actually be more effective... if less efficient. A phaser may be able to fire almost non stop, while a slugthrower would have to reload after a while... but again... who'd expect say... a M-16 when you're used to dealing with Plasma or Antiproton Rifles?
picard did kill some borgs with holodeck tommy gun. they had no chance to adopt:D
Ironically... with the advances made in defending against energy weapons... projectile might actually be more effective... if less efficient. A phaser may be able to fire almost non stop, while a slugthrower would have to reload after a while... but again... who'd expect say... a M-16 when you're used to dealing with Plasma or Antiproton Rifles?
Possibly, but... that scenario only really works if your enemies don't realize your defenses have that limitation. also.... there's those races that like sharp pointy objects...
Just read the most recent crafting update and saw you can craft this rifle and all I can say is not cool cryptic/prefect world
This was a Target preorder item, that was nerfed and made useless after lvl 10 and now you make it craftable rather than fix it and available to all.....
This item should only be available to those who bought it as they paid money for it so please rather than add more content fix the old stuff first
It was four years ago, the target prebuyers got the goodie out of it. Let it go...
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,601Community Moderator
Possibly, but... that scenario only really works if your enemies don't realize your defenses have that limitation. also.... there's those races that like sharp pointy objects...
It was four years ago, the target prebuyers got the goodie out of it. Let it go...
As a Target pre-order buyer, I'm just very happy to finally be able to get an endgame version of the gun. I'll gladly give up the non-LoS secondary fire for a boomstick to plug Borg with. Especially if they've updated the appearance of the weapon (which I won't hold my breath for).
How about this, for those that do not have the pre-order items. A Special 1 week and 1 week only sale of all the old pre-order items and charge the original pre-order price for everything. Since you're basically paying for a game code that unlocks it.
I always thought the only pre order bonus worth it was the liberated borg bridge officer.....which was put into the c store years ago. I'm glad to see this finally enter the game for all. Good Job Cryptic!
Just gimme any World War II era or later full automatic machine gun. Sure, you can make use tritanium bullets instead of the "old" lead bullets like the TR-116A.
I am pretty sure .45 caliber ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) ammo still has good stopping power in the 25th century as it does now. However, using something that hard (24.1 times harder than diamond and is what ship bulkheads are made of) can actually lower the amount of damage done.
The reason why ballistic weapons can do decent amount of damage and have sufficient stopping power is due to the deformation of the slug which is usually made of "soft" material like lead. When a bullet enters a body the sudden impact deforms the bullet. Additionally, the change in velocity causes the bullet to tumbling inside a body which also causes it to fracture into many pieces. It is this fracturing that actually causes the most damage because there are now several pieces travelling through the body. Each fragment can cause damage to separate organs as well as several sources of internal bleeding and it is this effect that determines the stopping power of a bullet.
With something as hard as Tritanium that basically means the bullet is more for armor piercing damage than trauma damage. A tritanium bullet could easily penetrate a body, remain whole (because it is 24.1x harder than diamond) and exit out of the body. Yes, the person that gets hit by a tritanium bullet will be wounded, but the wound would generally be less severe than a bullet made of lead and can deform inside a body.
Of course, it also depends on the entry point as well. Shooting someone in the head with a .45 caliber ACP round made of lead or tritanium will have the same end result.
I love hypothetical discussions like this. It gives me a chance for a major "geek out".
The .45 ACP, being a low powered handgun round, might not have sufficient penetration to defeat Borg body armor. Even with the jacketed steel-core Ball ammo used during the M1911s military service life, and a longer barrel as found on the Thompson SMG.
In other words, you want a rifle round, in a rifle.
In this hypothetical discussion, Starfleet might not have to rely on fragmentation for increased effectiveness against tissue and vital organs. Fragmenting jackets and excessive yawing are design concepts that has caught on as a means of getting around the silly St. Petersburg treaty on "acceptable" loadings for warfare, while maintaining sufficient penetration. Especially with intermediate cartridges like the 5.56mm NATO and 5.45mm Soviet. Controlled expansion, similar to some modern self-defense handgun loadings and Nosler's Ballistic Tip, would be the way to go, if Starfleet didn't saddle themselves with ridiculous restrictions out of the need to be the PR "white hats". Using a 25th Century take on these concepts, you would still get the penetration needed to defeat 25th Century body armor.
But with some enemies, the solid-core tritantium .30 round used by the TR-116 series might be necessary. All of the "stopping power" in the world won't help if the round can't get where it's supposed to be. In the case of a Borg drone, the critical cybernetic enhancements are not just external, but internal as well. The tritanium penetrator would still severely hamper a drone's combat effectiveness by destroying/damaging systems needed to function in such a state. Those same devices whose material would probably defeat a round with a softer core, minimizing both essential systems damage and tissue/vital organ damage (assuming it could penetrate the external defenses, and the Borg don't have cyber redundancies to loss of biological "parts"). And fragmentation/yawing would lessen the mass/energy needed for the slug to do it's job against these devices.
So, it would be a big trade off. Unless, Federation scientists could adapt something like Federal's real world expanding FMJ technology in such a way as to lessen the trade offs.
As, for using 25th Century ammo in 20th/21st Century firearms, that would depend on how much pressure the more advanced powders generated upon firing. The older metallergy might not hold up to it. And there is accelerated rifling wear that a super-hard tritanium bullet may cause in older firearms (assuming the older guns could even chamber the TR-116's cartridge in the first place). However, 25th Century replicas shouldn't be a problem, depending on the original design. And whether or not the TR's round is mechanically or electronically fired.
I love hypothetical discussions like this. It gives me a chance for a major "geek out".
The .45 ACP, being a low powered handgun round, might not have sufficient penetration to defeat Borg body armor. Even with the jacketed steel-core Ball ammo used during the M1911s military service life, and a longer barrel as found on the Thompson SMG.
Ahh, but....
In Star Trek: First Contact, Captain Picard, ran a holodeck program when being chased by the Borg. No time period was given but I think it is safe to say that it takes place sometime during the 1930's - 1950's. He ran the program with the safeties off and he whipped out a Thompson Submachine gun (Tommy Gun) to mow down the Borg that was chasing them.
Assuming the holodeck scene is supposed to historically accurate (it was some type of detective holosuite story program), the Tommy Gun was firing good 'ol .45 ACP ammo using conventional gunpowder for the time period.
That's good 'ol American 20th century weaponry taking down a 24th century enemy.
I always thought the only pre order bonus worth it was the liberated borg bridge officer.....which was put into the c store years ago. I'm glad to see this finally enter the game for all. Good Job Cryptic!
Unfortunately; It is Profession specific to Engineers, so it is pretty much untrainable by all other professions except Engineer class.
I wish they made profession variants of the Liberated Borg Bridge Officer, that way we could have a Sci or Tac LBBO.
Assuming the holodeck scene is supposed to historically accurate (it was some type of detective holosuite story program), the Tommy Gun was firing good 'ol .45 ACP ammo using conventional gunpowder for the time period.
That's good 'ol American 20th century weaponry taking down a 24th century enemy.
Keep in mind it was still using energy, besides Borg have shielding, so slugs wouldn't even work after a while of use.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,601Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Its harder to analyze a solid projectile than it is an energy beam. The reason the Borg adapted to Phasers was because they were identifying the exact modulation/frequency that the energy beam was using, and countering that. Solid projectiles kinda don't have a modulation or frequency ro counter. Just the physical slug itself.
In my opinion, if the TR-116B has a unique enough look and is Mk XII level, it might be better to have it renamed to something like the TR-121. Surely if Starfleet M.A.C.O. (according to the STO tie-in novel) have been using these against the Borg, there would have been new iterations over the decades since Nemesis like with the 2409 ships.
As for the properties of the bullets used, perhaps the jacketing mentioned above could allow for added stopping power, while still maintaining the tritanium bullet's piercing, although the jacketing would risk ablating away on stronger armors and materials. That or having alternate ammunition that could be chambered, at least lore-wise.
Technically, they could also load a bullet-scale torpedo detonation matrix into the bullets, or a small-scale EMP bomblet, or dispensable thermite charges or liquid nitrogen...
I love hypothetical discussions like this. It gives me a chance for a major "geek out".
The .45 ACP, being a low powered handgun round, might not have sufficient penetration to defeat Borg body armor. Even with the jacketed steel-core Ball ammo used during the M1911s military service life, and a longer barrel as found on the Thompson SMG.
In other words, you want a rifle round, in a rifle.
In this hypothetical discussion, Starfleet might not have to rely on fragmentation for increased effectiveness against tissue and vital organs. Fragmenting jackets and excessive yawing are design concepts that has caught on as a means of getting around the silly St. Petersburg treaty on "acceptable" loadings for warfare, while maintaining sufficient penetration. Especially with intermediate cartridges like the 5.56mm NATO and 5.45mm Soviet. Controlled expansion, similar to some modern self-defense handgun loadings and Nosler's Ballistic Tip, would be the way to go, if Starfleet didn't saddle themselves with ridiculous restrictions out of the need to be the PR "white hats". Using a 25th Century take on these concepts, you would still get the penetration needed to defeat 25th Century body armor.
But with some enemies, the solid-core tritantium .30 round used by the TR-116 series might be necessary. All of the "stopping power" in the world won't help if the round can't get where it's supposed to be. In the case of a Borg drone, the critical cybernetic enhancements are not just external, but internal as well. The tritanium penetrator would still severely hamper a drone's combat effectiveness by destroying/damaging systems needed to function in such a state. Those same devices whose material would probably defeat a round with a softer core, minimizing both essential systems damage and tissue/vital organ damage (assuming it could penetrate the external defenses, and the Borg don't have cyber redundancies to loss of biological "parts"). And fragmentation/yawing would lessen the mass/energy needed for the slug to do it's job against these devices.
So, it would be a big trade off. Unless, Federation scientists could adapt something like Federal's real world expanding FMJ technology in such a way as to lessen the trade offs.
As, for using 25th Century ammo in 20th/21st Century firearms, that would depend on how much pressure the more advanced powders generated upon firing. The older metallergy might not hold up to it. And there is accelerated rifling wear that a super-hard tritanium bullet may cause in older firearms (assuming the older guns could even chamber the TR-116's cartridge in the first place). However, 25th Century replicas shouldn't be a problem, depending on the original design. And whether or not the TR's round is mechanically or electronically fired.
End of "geek out" post.
I'd guess the first thing that a 25th century version would do is replace the powder with a modulated tractor pulse and push the bullet out the barrel that way. Hmm... I figure you could cram over a hundred rounds into the size of a modern 30-round magazine. But the main benefit is a higher muzzle velocity, and less kick.
wasn't around in 2009 (well wasnt on STO) and i never even knew it was in the game, i always wanted it to be and now that it is im actually going to start crafting.
Congratulations Cryptic u turned me into a crafter something no MMO has done before.
Indeed, I've got a long ways to go before I can craft it all the ones on the exchange are so over priced as if anyone really needs credits.
Comments
I find it ironic that once people get what they want, they whinge about it.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
So everyone could get teir shield penetrating kinetic rifles from the Omega Rep and use them in other endgame content No need for the TR 116 A or B
If they let me make a RMC, i will stop..
We finally, to an extent, have the Omega Task Force's equivalent to the Romulan Plasma Flamethrower
It's still a balance issue, because everyone needs to get it, it means the other items are underpowered.
Balance is not just about the characters, but also about individual items. Some items aren't needed to be balanced (a Mark I item vs a Mark X item because there is an intended update progression, a console vs a shield array because consoles and shield array cost different slots.).
But different (equal level) personal weapons would need to be balanced against each other. If one clearly dominates, there is a problem.
Nah, you or someone else will still whinge.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Just gimme any World War II era or later full automatic machine gun. Sure, you can make use tritanium bullets instead of the "old" lead bullets like the TR-116A.
I am pretty sure .45 caliber ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) ammo still has good stopping power in the 25th century as it does now. However, using something that hard (24.1 times harder than diamond and is what ship bulkheads are made of) can actually lower the amount of damage done.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tritanium
The reason why ballistic weapons can do decent amount of damage and have sufficient stopping power is due to the deformation of the slug which is usually made of "soft" material like lead. When a bullet enters a body the sudden impact deforms the bullet. Additionally, the change in velocity causes the bullet to tumbling inside a body which also causes it to fracture into many pieces. It is this fracturing that actually causes the most damage because there are now several pieces travelling through the body. Each fragment can cause damage to separate organs as well as several sources of internal bleeding and it is this effect that determines the stopping power of a bullet.
With something as hard as Tritanium that basically means the bullet is more for armor piercing damage than trauma damage. A tritanium bullet could easily penetrate a body, remain whole (because it is 24.1x harder than diamond) and exit out of the body. Yes, the person that gets hit by a tritanium bullet will be wounded, but the wound would generally be less severe than a bullet made of lead and can deform inside a body.
Of course, it also depends on the entry point as well. Shooting someone in the head with a .45 caliber ACP round made of lead or tritanium will have the same end result.
My character Tsin'xing
It was four years ago, the target prebuyers got the goodie out of it. Let it go...
Ewoks anyone?
As a Target pre-order buyer, I'm just very happy to finally be able to get an endgame version of the gun. I'll gladly give up the non-LoS secondary fire for a boomstick to plug Borg with. Especially if they've updated the appearance of the weapon (which I won't hold my breath for).
People on this forum cry so much about so little.
People would still whine
I love hypothetical discussions like this. It gives me a chance for a major "geek out".
The .45 ACP, being a low powered handgun round, might not have sufficient penetration to defeat Borg body armor. Even with the jacketed steel-core Ball ammo used during the M1911s military service life, and a longer barrel as found on the Thompson SMG.
In other words, you want a rifle round, in a rifle.
In this hypothetical discussion, Starfleet might not have to rely on fragmentation for increased effectiveness against tissue and vital organs. Fragmenting jackets and excessive yawing are design concepts that has caught on as a means of getting around the silly St. Petersburg treaty on "acceptable" loadings for warfare, while maintaining sufficient penetration. Especially with intermediate cartridges like the 5.56mm NATO and 5.45mm Soviet. Controlled expansion, similar to some modern self-defense handgun loadings and Nosler's Ballistic Tip, would be the way to go, if Starfleet didn't saddle themselves with ridiculous restrictions out of the need to be the PR "white hats". Using a 25th Century take on these concepts, you would still get the penetration needed to defeat 25th Century body armor.
But with some enemies, the solid-core tritantium .30 round used by the TR-116 series might be necessary. All of the "stopping power" in the world won't help if the round can't get where it's supposed to be. In the case of a Borg drone, the critical cybernetic enhancements are not just external, but internal as well. The tritanium penetrator would still severely hamper a drone's combat effectiveness by destroying/damaging systems needed to function in such a state. Those same devices whose material would probably defeat a round with a softer core, minimizing both essential systems damage and tissue/vital organ damage (assuming it could penetrate the external defenses, and the Borg don't have cyber redundancies to loss of biological "parts"). And fragmentation/yawing would lessen the mass/energy needed for the slug to do it's job against these devices.
So, it would be a big trade off. Unless, Federation scientists could adapt something like Federal's real world expanding FMJ technology in such a way as to lessen the trade offs.
As, for using 25th Century ammo in 20th/21st Century firearms, that would depend on how much pressure the more advanced powders generated upon firing. The older metallergy might not hold up to it. And there is accelerated rifling wear that a super-hard tritanium bullet may cause in older firearms (assuming the older guns could even chamber the TR-116's cartridge in the first place). However, 25th Century replicas shouldn't be a problem, depending on the original design. And whether or not the TR's round is mechanically or electronically fired.
End of "geek out" post.
Ahh, but....
In Star Trek: First Contact, Captain Picard, ran a holodeck program when being chased by the Borg. No time period was given but I think it is safe to say that it takes place sometime during the 1930's - 1950's. He ran the program with the safeties off and he whipped out a Thompson Submachine gun (Tommy Gun) to mow down the Borg that was chasing them.
Assuming the holodeck scene is supposed to historically accurate (it was some type of detective holosuite story program), the Tommy Gun was firing good 'ol .45 ACP ammo using conventional gunpowder for the time period.
That's good 'ol American 20th century weaponry taking down a 24th century enemy.
Unfortunately; It is Profession specific to Engineers, so it is pretty much untrainable by all other professions except Engineer class.
I wish they made profession variants of the Liberated Borg Bridge Officer, that way we could have a Sci or Tac LBBO.
Keep in mind it was still using energy, besides Borg have shielding, so slugs wouldn't even work after a while of use.
As for the properties of the bullets used, perhaps the jacketing mentioned above could allow for added stopping power, while still maintaining the tritanium bullet's piercing, although the jacketing would risk ablating away on stronger armors and materials. That or having alternate ammunition that could be chambered, at least lore-wise.
Technically, they could also load a bullet-scale torpedo detonation matrix into the bullets, or a small-scale EMP bomblet, or dispensable thermite charges or liquid nitrogen...
anyone can have it.
Get over it
My character Tsin'xing
Indeed, I've got a long ways to go before I can craft it